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Cody Colston
07-05-2015, 4:58 PM
Has anyone else ever thought it incongruous that a woodworking site with the name Sawmill Creek does not have a sub-forum dedicated to sawing lumber?

A sawmill is the ultimate woodworking power tool and I believe there are multiple members of this forum that saw their own lumber, including me. I know this site is already loaded with sub-forums but I think a sawing/drying category would be appropriate for a forum this popular.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Peter Quinn
07-05-2015, 5:39 PM
Makes sense to me. Its one of the few crafts where you can if so inspired harvest your raw materials and see to their exact preparation, and it seems a fair number of wood workers are doing so. Perhaps even a bit more buy lumber green from a sawyer and air dry or make a home kiln as a cost savings measure or again to control the inputs as part of the craft. Its really a sort of subset of wood working because I've also met those that harvest and dry lumber but have very little to do with making finished goods from it save commodities like siding and flooring. I don't really have an understanding of how the different sub forums came to be chosen or under what conditions a new one may be created. It may be as simple as the workload to maintain and moderate the site as it exists currently is quite extensive leaving little time or impetus for expansion. I recall some time ago a discussion that perhaps "cabinetry", should be its own sub-forum here, it certainly is on some other forums. But there was no consensus regarding what qualified as cabinetry, and this is not by any means a democratic institution to begin with. The basic idea was that perhaps discussions regarding woodworking might be held in a separate sub forum from questions regarding machinery and power tools. Of course the two subjects are sometimes inextricably intertwined and remain in a single forum here.

Perhaps there is an opportunity for you to create a sawyers forum with a focus on small production for the purpose of supplying ones own workshop? Cody's Creek and Mill!

ian maybury
07-05-2015, 6:11 PM
I'm another that would love to see discussion of sawmilling and especially kiln drying and stress relieving/conditioning topics.

There's actually good coverage of the topic at Woodweb, but it tends often to be pretty large scale commercially/professionally orientated. I think there's a space to do with in-shop conditioning of wood that doesn't necessarily get much coverage.

Wood condition is problematical here, it's typically bought in bulk from US suppliers, and stored in who knows what conditions for how long before sale. The moisture content etc can be quite variable. Then there's issues like case hardening arising from maybe overly aggressive kilning of the wood by the original producer. There's it seems (as posted on the recent thread) scope for pre-use/in-shop stress relieving and regularising the moisture content of/conditioning - but the devil is as ever in the detail.

I'm actually toying with installing a small kiln for this purpose, something for example like the Logosol Sauno: http://www.logosol.us/all-products/sauno-kiln/

This sort of work seemingly requires fairly precise control of the process (it may entail moisture/steam injection at the end), and it's tough to establish from makers (I've tried) precisely what the process capability of a given model of kiln actually is… (small scale installations don't warrant or get much tech support it seems).

Bryan Lisowski
07-05-2015, 6:14 PM
I agree there should be a sub forum about sawmills and drying lumber. I watch milling videos all the time and would love to own a mill, not so much for income producing, just personal use and maybe for woodworking friends nearby.

Paul Murphy
07-05-2015, 6:24 PM
Such a forum would probably be helpful, even for folks not owning sawmill equipment.


I have no mill, but do have some standing timber. I salvage log whatever blows over, dies, or gets struck by lightning. I haul it to a mill if it is just a few logs, or hire a portable mill to come to me if it is at least a full days sawing.


In the past I have bought green lumber from a local mill, and dried it myself for projects that could wait until the wood was ready.


Building a level “base” for stacking, sawing dry stickers, and stacking properly, is somewhat of an obscure knowledge base. A lot more planning and preparation than I had envisioned.



How long to dry was the next unknown, and of course there was more to it than just “a year for each inch of thickness”. Not much drying takes place in the winter months where I live, so if you saw in the late fall, drying really doesn't get rolling until spring.


Here is a 66 page free download that can answer some of the questions on air-drying lumber:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf


I would love to have a sawmill, but since there are a few nearby I am content to let them carry that overhead. :)

daryl moses
07-05-2015, 6:38 PM
I would love to have my own mill. I've had a sawyer come out twice to mill lumber that I have cut here on the farm.
I too would like to see a Sawmill forum I think it would be a great addition to this site.

John TenEyck
07-05-2015, 7:20 PM
There are other sites with forums dedicated to milling lumber. I'm sure you are aware of them. There is a lot of great info. available there, but they generally are not populated by people who use the wood they mill. So I agree with you; having a forum dedicated to milling and drying lumber at SMC would be a very helpful addition for those of us primarily focused on woodworking. I've been milling and drying much of my lumber for nearly 10 years now. I'm at the absolute bottom of the technology ladder, and the low cost processes I use might be very beneficial to others contemplating doing the same.

John

Jesse Busenitz
07-05-2015, 8:03 PM
I don't own a sawmill but I've had someone come out and mill quite a bit of wood, and i wish I knew then what I do know.

Cody Colston
07-05-2015, 8:38 PM
As John Teneyck said, there are other forums dedicated to sawing and there is a lot of good info on them. However, in general, the sawyers there are not end users. I like the idea of covering the processes from tree to furniture or whatever one is building with the wood.

I know of one member here who saws, dries and sells lumber on a small scale but he is also a fine woodworker as well as a retired forester. The knowledge that he and others like him have to share would be invaluable for other woodworkers, IMHO.

Jim Andrew
07-05-2015, 9:01 PM
I've frequented this forum for several years, and have a cooks mp32 mill. Only mill in the winter when I have some spare time. When I need info on the mill or drying info I go to forestryforum.com Don't see how you could catch up with all the info on that forum. And some
guys on forestryforum do woodworking. Some are members here.

Danny Hamsley
07-05-2015, 9:44 PM
Wow, Cody, what a great suggestion. I spend every day either sawing lumber, stacking lumber, drying lumber, planing lumber, selling some lumber, and working on too many woodworking projects all at the same time. A lot of members here probably would likely benefit from knowing what is involved in taking a tree and making finished lumber to make projects that we all love. Plus, a lot of members occasionally have trees that they need sawn, or they have have freshly sawn lumber that they need to dry. That can be a daunting task if you have not done it before.

Jim Becker
07-05-2015, 9:52 PM
From time to time, there are often great suggestions for sub-forum level topics from members. While it might seem like a simple thing to add another area to the forum site, the reality is that managing the very large and diverse forum we have now is pretty much at what can be handled by the available resources. And unfortunately, many threads still need to get moved around because sometimes folks don't consider "where they are" when they start a thread, especially those new to our forum structure.

Lumber creation, drying, etc., have always been welcome topics here in General Woodworking and folks are encouraged to have those discussions. From time to time, someone does post a thread on these topics, but overall, there hasn't been a large number of such threads in my observation. So while it's unlikely that there will be a separate area for lumber milling and drying, please don't let that stop you from posting about experiences or asking questions on the same.

Jim
SMC Moderator

Cody Colston
07-06-2015, 6:57 AM
Lumber creation, drying, etc., have always been welcome topics here in General Woodworking and folks are encouraged to have those discussions. From time to time, someone does post a thread on these topics, but overall, there hasn't been a large number of such threads in my observation. So while it's unlikely that there will be a separate area for lumber milling and drying, please don't let that stop you from posting about experiences or asking questions on the same.

Jim
SMC Moderator

Oh well. I still believe that if you build it, they will come. :)

Keith Outten
07-06-2015, 11:54 AM
Cody,

If we can get at least fifty people who will be active in a Sawmill Forum and they will become Contributors (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/payments.php) I will create the forum for you guys. I'm trying to keep my workload light this Summer do to projects that I have in process and of course many hours ahead working on a new primary server to replace the one we are using now. Last week we added an additional air conditioner to my office to take care of the additional load during the Summer months so everything is on schedule right now to get where we need to be for the upcoming Fall and Winter activity here. We did a major network upgrade three months ago and tripled our bandwidth plus we added some new gear so my budget is a bit tight right now and some new Contributors (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/payments.php) would help restore our Community savings that we have consumed lately.

Any volunteers?

Dennis Ford
07-06-2015, 12:14 PM
I have (and use) a home built sawmill and will participate.

John TenEyck
07-06-2015, 2:30 PM
Count me in.

John

Glenn Clabo
07-06-2015, 3:52 PM
For those who don't know...all Keith is saying is throw in 6 bucks and get enough interest and you get your wish. Not very expensive and you're helping Keith keep the lights shining bright. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/payments.php

Cody Colston
07-06-2015, 4:10 PM
Cody,

If we can get at least fifty people who will be active in a Sawmill Forum and they will become Contributors (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/payments.php) I will create the forum for you guys.

Wow, thanks Keith. That's a deal.

What is the chance of getting a poll posted to see how many here would support such a forum. I'm not techie enough to do it. I can pretty much guarantee that the minimal amount for 50 contributors is assured, though. :D

Rod Sheridan
07-06-2015, 4:23 PM
I would be interested Cody..............Regards, Rod.

John Hollaway
07-06-2015, 4:50 PM
Me too!

John

Keith Outten
07-06-2015, 4:52 PM
We have Cody, Danny and Dennis. We need 47 more, thanks gentlemen.

Scott T Smith
07-06-2015, 7:22 PM
I'm in as well.

Glenn Clabo
07-06-2015, 7:51 PM
Me too...me too,

Keith Outten
07-07-2015, 1:57 AM
Cody,

I added the poll.

Cody Colston
07-07-2015, 6:13 AM
Thanks again, Keith. Burning a little midnight oil are you?

Keith Outten
07-07-2015, 7:27 AM
I had a tough day yesterday, lots of things to do topped off with some training in my shop trying to learn to weld aluminum for the first time. Fell asleep early and woke up about 1am so more work for awhile :)
I enjoy the quiet time when I can get it in my shop whether its late at night or very early in the morning.

My grand daughter has her third birthday coming up in a couple of weeks so I am finishing a rocking horse, actually its a burro, getting it ready for her birthday. I have to finish the rocker and the collar and it will be complete, can't be late on this one :)
.

Scott T Smith
07-07-2015, 7:35 AM
Cody,

I added the poll.

Thanks Keith. If a new forum is added, I would suggest that it include both milling and drying. Cody, myself and some of the other millers and kiln operators could draft up a sticky "primer" on milling and another one on drying if desired.

Pat Barry
07-07-2015, 7:54 AM
I am interested in the sawing topics and support the idea of adding a new forum for them. I do wonder why someone would actually vote NO on this question.

Jim Becker
07-07-2015, 11:46 AM
I'm liking how this is going and Keith's offer is outstanding...it shows what Contributing Members of SMC can do if they want to add value to the community.

Cody Colston
07-07-2015, 12:42 PM
I'm liking how this is going and Keith's offer is outstanding...it shows what Contributing Members of SMC can do if they want to add value to the community.

I'm liking how it is going, too. Almost halfway there already!

Glenn Clabo
07-08-2015, 6:44 AM
It seems to have stalled folks. Time to make a call to friends and family. 😉

David Nelson1
07-08-2015, 7:30 AM
I'm interested and voted!

cody michael
07-08-2015, 7:48 AM
I think this would be cool, and possibly reduce repeat questions

Larry Edgerton
07-08-2015, 7:58 AM
I do a little sawing on an old Corley and am always curious.

I will up the anty and send in for 5 people, or $30. Keith, let me know what address to send a check.

Larry

David Spurr
07-08-2015, 12:25 PM
Count me in. I only have a chainsaw mill and my first stack of lumber is close to being ready for fun so I have little experience on the subject.

Ken Fitzgerald
07-08-2015, 12:56 PM
I do a little sawing on an old Corley and am always curious.

I will up the anty and send in for 5 people, or $30. Keith, let me know what address to send a check.

Larry

Larry,

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Glenn Clabo
07-08-2015, 1:04 PM
Count me in. I only have a chainsaw mill and my first stack of lumber is close to being ready for fun so I have little experience on the subject.

David...if you become a contributor your yes vote will count. ;)

Bill Rhodus
07-08-2015, 1:32 PM
I'm in; just paid up. I spent a lot of years working in a commercial lumber mill and still saw lumber for my own use on a bandsaw I built in my shop. Also have a Frick 0 to look at. Hope this forum makes it.

David Spurr
07-08-2015, 9:07 PM
Just put in my 10 bucks. Who's next?

Darrin Johnson
07-08-2015, 9:37 PM
Just put in $50. Git'er done.

Cody Colston
07-09-2015, 10:03 AM
Only a few more contributors needed to make this happen.

Larry Edgerton
07-09-2015, 10:57 AM
I just went to send a check and realized I was almost out, so I used PayPal. I figured I may as well match Darrin, so I sent $50.

Larry

Scott T Smith
07-09-2015, 11:50 AM
I sent $20.00 yesterday.

Pat Barry
07-09-2015, 12:47 PM
I re-upped my annual contribution for $20 on Tuesday after I voted in the poll.

Tom Walz
07-09-2015, 2:13 PM
I'll send a check.

We get a lot of calls from small sawmill folks and portable sawmill people who bought the mill and can't get support for it.


Speaking of which I recently found Casey Creamer's book Sawmillers Guide to Trouble Shooting.
http://northernlogger.com/products/sawmillers-guide-troubleshooting

Not so much for Weyerhaeuser mills but good for small mills.

Glenn Clabo
07-09-2015, 5:02 PM
Let's see if a slight change in the poll and thread title will get 2 more. Fingers crossed.

Glenn Clabo
07-09-2015, 5:05 PM
I am interested in the sawing topics and support the idea of adding a new forum for them. I do wonder why someone would actually vote NO on this question.

Agree...maybe they didn't understand that we were just looking for 50 contributors/supporters? If they aren't interested they don't have to participate.

Larry Edgerton
07-09-2015, 5:49 PM
We have to be close $ wise with some of the larger donations I would think. I'm just saying......

Larry

Glenn Clabo
07-09-2015, 7:26 PM
We have to be close $ wise with some of the larger donations I would think. I'm just saying......

Larry

I will use all my influence (none) and charm (less) to convince the boss we should kick this off. But let's try to meet his number?

Keith Outten
07-09-2015, 11:19 PM
The question now is whether you guys prefer a Forum for Contributors or would you rather have it open to all Members? A Contributors Forum will provide you with privacy, they cannot be accessed by the search engines.
.

Cody Colston
07-10-2015, 6:33 AM
I'm thinking an open forum. Perhaps the information provided will inspire members to become contributors. Also, the more active, the more likely it is to attract sponsors...mills and related tool/equip mfg's. I see them sponsoring the other sawing/drying sites I visit.

Larry Edgerton
07-10-2015, 6:38 AM
I'm thinking an open forum. Perhaps the information provided will inspire members to become contributors. Also, the more active, the more likely it is to attract sponsors...mills and related tool/equip mfg's. I see them sponsoring the other sawing/drying sites I visit.


What he said..........

Glenn Clabo
07-10-2015, 6:52 AM
The question now is whether you guys prefer a Forum for Contributors or would you rather have it open to all Members? A Contributors Forum will provide you with privacy, they cannot be accessed by the search engines.
.

i understand your reasoning Keith but I think an open forum will be best. As it develops we can make sure that participants will know it takes money to keep the lights on.

Al Launier
07-10-2015, 7:43 AM
I'm in. Just paid via PayPal.
I think this is a great idea & many will enjoy & learn from it. Good on you Cody for suggesting this!!!
I also think the subject matter should include how to "fixture up", etc. raw wood (limbs/small tree sections) for resawing into planks, etc. for the hobbyist woodworker.

David Nelson1
07-10-2015, 10:16 AM
Opted in for another 20 myself

Michael Weber
07-10-2015, 3:05 PM
No particular interest in milling but upped this years contribution cuz I find SMC worth more than 6 bucks a year. Just some of the off topic threads are worth that much in laughs. "shuddered like a wombat was going through it" comes to mind. Still laugh about that image Phil

Tom Hogard
07-10-2015, 11:16 PM
Well, I wouldn't want to be left out of this exclusive group, I'll participate too.

Scott T Smith
07-11-2015, 12:59 PM
Well, I wouldn't want to be left out of this exclusive group, I'll participate too.

There goes the neighborhood! <grin>

Glad to see you onboard Tom! You ought to write an intro and post some pix of your milling operation when you have time.

Glenn Clabo
07-11-2015, 2:32 PM
Just to confuse things I have stuck this thread. As soon as Keith sets the forum up I'll move it there. Please add a "wish list" of things you would like to see on this forum. Articles...equipment...title of the forum...all that stuff. I'll try to keep it as organized as possible so as not to let it get out of hand but...Because it will be an open forum we have to be careful about the SMC rules...but let's make this as dynamic as possible. OKAY?

Cody Colston
07-11-2015, 4:49 PM
Glenn, I'd like to thank you for your assistance in making this forum a reality. It is very much appreciated. To all the contributors who pitched in and supported the idea I also thank you.

To the twenty (so far) who have no interest in such a forum, drop by when it gets going. Perhaps there will be something there after all to interest you.

ian maybury
07-11-2015, 5:39 PM
Hi guys. I've been absent as my computer has been in for repairs - but good to see some momentum developing. Just to say I've voted and put through a contribution too.

Dead pleased to see the preference for keeping the forum open/public - in that even if we have a fair amount of in house knowledge it should pull in outside expertise too.

Some interests for me are:

(1) The preparation (stress relieving and conditioning) of project sized batches of bought commercially kilned wood to improve (and predict) its stability and workability/to approach that of air dried wood. (think many of us play roulette by buying kilned wood of essentially unknown condition - which was either dried over aggressively, or which has perhaps picked up a lot of moisture since kilning)

(2) Nitty gritty/hands on level techniques (schedules, processes etc in detail) and equipment solutions for DIY/budget sawmilling, drying and kilning of smallish quantities of wood for personal, project or small/speciality/high quality commercial use. (this in one respect is the key - there's quite a lot of information/discussion out there already at the general level, but it's not always very specific, and tends to relate to larger scale operations)

(3) Tech, user feedback, pros and cons and sources of smaller scale equipment useful for the above. (e.g. the Logosol mini kiln is for example a very cost effective looking solution claimed to be especially effective at delivering minimally stressed and equilibrated wood - but it's proving difficult to dig up good manufacturer/user recommendations on how exactly to use one)

(4) As a subset of the above - there's possibly a market for well prepped turning blanks and interesting pieces of wood, but very little information on how to process them using a small kiln.

Danny Hamsley
07-11-2015, 10:03 PM
Seems odd to me that 25% of the woodworkers responding here have no interest in how lumber is milled and dried. In my experience, you cannot be as effective a woodworker if you do not understand the basics of how lumber is cut from trees and how it is dried for use. I guess for some, lumber just grows on trees.
However, I apologize for the comments, not meant to be snide. I have a pretty serious wood fixation.

Keith Outten
07-12-2015, 2:36 AM
One reason that people prefer to have this topic remain in the General Woodworking Forum is to keep the information in a forum that they frequent. The majority here rarely visit more then one forum area.

Based on your requests I have created the new Sawmills and Kiln Drying Forum which is now open for discussion of both milling and drying lumber.

Cody Colston
07-12-2015, 7:08 AM
Thank you, Keith.

William McAnelly
07-12-2015, 10:22 PM
I have a harbor freight sawmill that I made a 30 foot track for. It works ok if you have sharp blades if they get dull it starts getting wavey(sp) not bad for the price.