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Brian Kent
07-03-2015, 9:22 PM
People who are underpaid:

The people who make commodes and sell them at a price where they can be boxed, shipped, distributed and sold at a profit for $98 at Home Depot. (If I made a ceramic commode I would want to sell it for at least $1,200.)

The guy who stands at the end of the aisle at Home Depot and asks, "How's your air conditioning?"

The person who convinced "Gorilla Glue" to start selling regular old woodworker's glue when everybody found out that the Original Expanding Gorilla Drip doesn't hold one bit better.


People who are overpaid:

The people at Coca Cola who make a plastic bottle and fill it with water so it tastes like the plastic bottle and sell it for $1.78 at Home Depot.

The person who put too many green skittles in my bag.

Jerry Thompson
07-03-2015, 9:25 PM
But, we don't have to buy the products.

glenn bradley
07-03-2015, 9:55 PM
People who are underpaid and overpaid
Underpaid:
A lot of people at my work.

Overpaid:
The rest of the people at my work ;-)

Moses Yoder
07-04-2015, 6:14 AM
The guy who routes the bevel on the inside of wood lattice panels is underpaid. Anyone who gets paid to play a game or is in any way paid for their association with a game is overpaid. Anyone who has enough money to buy something they don't need is overpaid.

Mike Cutler
07-04-2015, 6:29 AM
Anybody that receives a W2 at the end of the year, or owes taxes on their income, is underpaid.

I don't believe in the concept of being overpaid. It's not possible.;)

David Ragan
07-04-2015, 8:06 AM
Overpaid-people who run socialist/communist regimes
underpaid-Parents

Bill Orbine
07-04-2015, 8:27 AM
underpaid: me
overpaid: everyone else

Mark Blatter
07-04-2015, 9:03 AM
Many will disagree with me on my first item but;

Over paid - any one that plays sports for a living or that coach those paid athletes, all national politicians, 98% of all lawyers, all insurance execs, the list is really long, and some days me.

Under paid - All those that put their life on the line in any way (the men & women of the armed forces, fire fighters, most cops, etc.), nurses, some days me.

Erik Loza
07-04-2015, 9:21 AM
....Under paid - All those that put their life on the line in any way (the men & women of the armed forces, fire fighters, most cops, etc.), nurses...

Agreed and would add perhaps the most underpaid of all here in the US: School teachers.

Erik

Wade Lippman
07-04-2015, 9:43 AM
Pay is determined by the intersection of supply of people with that ability, and demand by society for people with that talent.
It might seem that paying a baseball player $10,000,000 to play a game is absurd, but there are very few people who can do it, and he apparently produces revenue to his employer of much more than that; so it is fair pay.
OTOH you couldn't pay me enough to deliberately go into a burning building, but enough people want to do it, so that you don't have to pay all that much to attract qualified applicants; accordingly, it is fair pay.

There are a few exceptions where the government interferes to distort the playing field, but on the whole the system works.

My older son just applied to be the manager of a dog rescue, and my younger son wants to teach social studies. Go figure.

Julie Moriarty
07-04-2015, 9:58 AM
Overpaid: Most CEOs and upper management
Underpaid: Those working for the above who aren't paid what they are worth because the above are in some kind of weird competition to become as rich as possible.

Overpaid: Road crew workers who lean on their shovels all day.
Underpaid: Road crew workers who use their shovels all day.

Underpaid: Electricians who work hot.
Overpaid: The foreman who told them to work it hot.

David Ragan
07-04-2015, 12:24 PM
Agreed and would add perhaps the most underpaid of all here in the US: School teachers.

Erik

Absolutely the most valid point on so many levels.

Frederick Skelly
07-04-2015, 1:14 PM
Overpaid:
* Some University administrators. Want a shock? Go look at what some of these folks make and some of the perks that go with it. And those of you with college age kids are paying for it.
* Some people who run charities, but aren't as dedicated to 'the mission' as they ought to be. Happens in large and small charities. Some of the things that charities spend donated money and grants on curls my hair.

Underpaid (my list mirrors some of yours)
* Active duty servicemen and women. And don't forget the Coast Guard here.
* Firemen (Will you ever forget the images of FDNY bravely going UP the stairs of the WTC while everyone else was desparately trying to get DOWN them?)
* Police that work on the street
* Teachers that truly care and try their best every day

Curt Harms
07-05-2015, 8:28 AM
Overpaid: Most television and movie performers. There's a local weather woman (she does have a meteorology degree) reported to make $600,000/year. Her skill set is not THAT unique. I can't speak for other areas but around here (Philly burbs) the teachers are pretty well paid, I think the median is around $60,000 or better with an above-average retirement plan. Of course in urban areas body armor and hazardous duty pay ought to be included.

Underpaid: I agree with most of the lists above.

Phil Thien
07-05-2015, 10:03 AM
Overpaid: Most television and movie performers. There's a local weather woman (she does have a meteorology degree) reputed to make $600,000/year. Her skill set is not THAT unique. I can't speak for other areas but around here (Philly burbs) the teachers are pretty well paid, I think the median is around $60,000 or better with an above-average retirement plan. Of course in urban areas body armor and hazardous duty pay ought to be included.

Underpaid: I agree with most of the lists above.

It is unlikely any local TV weather personalities make anywhere near that. They're actually paid rather modestly, around $75 to $85k/year.

That is because there are limited positions and lots of people that want them.

Wade Lippman
07-05-2015, 10:32 AM
There's a local weather woman (she does have a meteorology degree) reputed to make $600,000/year. Her skill set is not THAT unique.

Let's assume your example is true.
If they could get someone to do the job equally well for $400,000 a year, don't you think they would? The station management must think she is worth $600,000 or they would get rid of her. Don't you think they have a better handle on her worth than you do?

Sofia Vergara gets $40M/year. Seems obscene to me, but if they could get away with paying her $30M/year, don't you think they would. You can spit at economics all you want, insisting your value system is superior, and economics will win out every time. Save the spit.

Jim Koepke
07-05-2015, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Curt Harms
There's a local weather woman (she does have a meteorology degree) reputed to make $600,000/year. Her skill set is not THAT unique.

Is it the skill set or is it the number of viewers who tune in to see her weather segment?

I have seen many "managers" who are responsible for nothing and report to nobody. OVERPAID

I have also seen many workers who are dedicated to their jobs and will carry the whole team or shift. UNDERPAID

Many of our public employees, firefighters, police, teachers and others dedicated to a better society... UNDERPAID

Many of our public employees, clerks, records keepers and others just doing it for a paycheck... OVERPAID

Many elected to serve their constituents who only serve the lobbyists... OVERPAID

jtk

Raymond Fries
07-05-2015, 8:53 PM
Servers in restaurants are waaay underpaid. Last I knew they made like $2.15 per hour. Then they have to tip out a percentage of their tips to others like say a bartender. Next time you dine out, please leave a really nice tip.

Harrison Ford visited a local restaurant here a few years ago and left a $4,000 tip. I wish I could do that!

Take Care.

Peter Kelly
07-05-2015, 9:12 PM
The bulk of restaurant workers are usually grossly underpaid, particularly here in NYC. $65-$75k is the norm for an executive chef (20 years experience) at better restaurants.

I'd add hedge fund managers and lawyers to the massively over-compensated list.

Jason Roehl
07-05-2015, 9:24 PM
Servers in restaurants are waaay underpaid. Last I knew they made like $2.15 per hour. Then they have to tip out a percentage of their tips to others like say a bartender. Next time you dine out, please leave a really nice tip.

This is a commonly held myth. The minimum wage for tipped servers is $2.13/hour. However, by wage law, if their tips don't make up the difference of federal minimum wage and that $2.13/hour, the restauranteur has to make up the difference to bring them up to the minimum wage: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm I'm not saying that's a good wage, though. And I do tip as generously (20%+) as I am able when the service is good. Closer to 10% if it's not (and obviously within the server's control).


Harrison Ford visited a local restaurant here a few years ago and left a $4,000 tip. I wish I could do that!


You and me both. Ford worked with his hands before he made it big. Obviously, he didn't forget. Kudos to him.

Just to put in a bit of defense for the shovel-leaners. I have a good friend who used to be a construction supervisor for the local WaterWorks. I watched him and his crew repair a few water main breaks. Often, he would be the one in the hole working while his most of his crew (other than the guy in the backhoe) stood around the rim of the hole watching. I said something to him about it one time, cracking wise. He got real serious and told me that they were watching for signs of collapse. He himself had saved one of his crew when they were both in a hole that started to collapse, pulling the guy out of the way of falling dirt and under/behind the bucket of the backhoe.

Rod Sheridan
07-06-2015, 8:10 AM
Overpaid: Most CEOs and upper management
Underpaid: Those working for the above who aren't paid what they are worth because the above are in some kind of weird competition to become as rich as possible.

Overpaid: Road crew workers who lean on their shovels all day.
Underpaid: Road crew workers who use their shovels all day.

Underpaid: Electricians who work hot.
Overpaid: The foreman who told them to work it hot.

Not too Bright: Electricians who work hot when it's not a life support emergency

Even Less Bright: Foreman who tell workers to work hot when it's not a life support emergency.

There, fixed that for you Julie. :-)

Having had a father who survived a serious shock/arc flash incident, I find myself not doing hot work unless it's a life support emergency, except for times when you need to perform measurements or infra-red inspections.

Regards, Rod.

Joe Kieve
07-06-2015, 8:13 AM
Underpaid: In addition to our military, police/firefighters, teachers, I think septic tank "cleaner outers" need a little more.

Overpaid: Congress...Will Rogers said back in the 30's, "we've got the best congress money can buy".

Myk Rian
07-06-2015, 9:05 AM
Overpaid. Waayy overpaid: Wallstreet executives.

Julie Moriarty
07-07-2015, 7:44 AM
Not too Bright: Electricians who work hot when it's not a life support emergency

Even Less Bright: Foreman who tell workers to work hot when it's not a life support emergency.

There, fixed that for you Julie. :-)

Having had a father who survived a serious shock/arc flash incident, I find myself not doing hot work unless it's a life support emergency, except for times when you need to perform measurements or infra-red inspections.

Regards, Rod.

My personal experience has been it's money and not life support that dictated those times we were asked to work hot. 120v is no big deal, but 480v is another story. That's usually the highest voltage journeyman wiremen ever have to work but, like you, I've seen what it can do.

Rod Sheridan
07-07-2015, 8:54 AM
My personal experience has been it's money and not life support that dictated those times we were asked to work hot. 120v is no big deal, but 480v is another story. That's usually the highest voltage journeyman wiremen ever have to work but, like you, I've seen what it can do.

Agreed Julie, it often is a lack of understanding of the risks, and a reluctance to make changes to minimize them.........Most of our work is 600 volt.........Rod.

Bert Kemp
07-07-2015, 10:04 AM
The men and women that go into battle for us and DIE for us


Rank


<2 Years Experience
4 Years Experience
6 Years Experience


Private (E1)
$18,378**




Private (E2)
$20,602.80
$20,602.80
$20,602.80


Private First Class(E3)
$21,664.80
$24,418.80
$24,418.80



Specialist or Corporal (E4)
$23,994
$27,936
$29,127.60


Sergeant (E5)
$26,172
$30,661.20
$32,814


Staff Sergeant (E6)
$28,569.60
$34,171.20
$35,578.80



I won't argue that teachers are under paid but compared to the Military they do ok the lowest paid teachers in the US avg
$40K they don't live in a foxhole and eat MRE's





Agreed and would add perhaps the most underpaid of all here in the US: School teachers.

Erik

Jim Creech
07-07-2015, 11:27 AM
Let's not forget all the additional "Perks" most of these grossly overpaid executives also get!

"All I want is ...less to do...more time to do it in, and more money for not getting it done!"

Jim Becker
07-07-2015, 11:53 AM
underpaid...teachers, police/fire/public-safety, military, many hourly workers
overpaid...politicians, many CxO level (as compared to other workers in a firm)

Erik Loza
07-07-2015, 12:43 PM
For many years, I worked in corporate retail. The company's shares would struggle, so they would lure in some big executive from another company, make a big press release: "This is the person who's going to turn us around. They bring all this experience, they're a game changer, blah, blah, blah...". Except that "turning things around" always seemed to consist exclusively of slashing payroll. No plans, no leadership, just gut payroll. A year or two would go by, the stocks would not turn around, and this executive would leave with all sorts of compensation and options. Then, coprporate would do the exact same thing all over again. We would all scratch our heads. "What did they really do except give us less hours to run the stores on?" It seemed like they were hiring damage managers, not leaders.

I don't have a fundamental problem with people being well-paid or perhaps even "over-paid" but don't like when executives come in with all sorts of salary and compensation to match some huge expectation, do nothing more than gut the work force, which is the simpleton's way to save money, then waltz back out the door with all that compensation still intact while hard-working people got laid off. Just my 2-cents, as always.

Erik

Julie Moriarty
07-08-2015, 8:10 AM
Erik, when I was working on a big job in the mid 90's, at a government lab, my contact was an engineer who worked for the lab. We talked every day. One day, after the work talk was done, we were discussing how the contractor I was working for had been a victim of Boesky and Milken and were going to be closing their Chicago division because Boesky and Milken had raided their funds and they couldn't afford to operate offices across the country anymore. The engineer said something that stuck in my head, "Companies used to be run by engineers, the people who designed and built the products. Employees were treated fairly and made a decent wage. The company made money but they didn't make a killing. When the accountants took over, they made money by slashing wages and benefits and demanded more work from their employees. That's how the Decade of Greed was ushered in."

I've thought about what he said many times since then. I don't know how accurate his statement was but I do remember the time when employees were paid a living wage, got decent health care and even a pension, and there was a strong middle class. Of course, back then, there were not so many multi-millionaires and very few billionaires. It went from sharing the wealth to a cash grab.

Erik Loza
07-08-2015, 9:17 AM
...I've thought about what he said many times since then. I don't know how accurate his statement was but I do remember the time when employees were paid a living wage, got decent health care and even a pension, and there was a strong middle class. Of course, back then, there were not so many multi-millionaires and very few billionaires. It went from sharing the wealth to a cash grab.

+1...

I'm no expert on any of this but we need a way to get skilled trades back into the picture. And pay these folks a respectable wage. When the recession happened in '08, the first personnel many machinery dealerships laid off were techs. Huge mistake. Because once the market bounced back (which it has), those guys are gone and you can't get them back.

I can tell you that at least from my little window into all this, you cannot find enough good machinery technicians. I have this conversation with the Italians and US management every time I see them. "You don't need more dealers. You need more service guys". Every tech wants to go into sales, because "that's where the money is" (which is debatable, LOL...) but if they got paid (IMO) commensurate to their ability, everybody would prosper: The customers satisfaction level would be higher and they would buy more products, the dealership would look better and inspire more return business, and the parts department would be selling more product. But, as you pointed out, things get tough and the perception of corporate is that Service is "not making us any money, like Sales is", so that's where they start gutting. It's a very short-sighted view.

Erik

Brian Elfert
07-08-2015, 10:14 AM
Not too Bright: Electricians who work hot when it's not a life support emergency

Even Less Bright: Foreman who tell workers to work hot when it's not a life support emergency.


I work at a large production plant with staff electricians. They do almost all work hot in panels. They generally can't shut down the panels during their work. They do wear special protective gear that protects from arc flashes.

They have added a lot of circuits in our data center and we couldn't shut down the servers so they could power off the panel. (We should have had fully redundant power so an entire panel could be taken offline, but nobody thought of that when the data center was designed years ago.)

Rod Sheridan
07-08-2015, 10:56 AM
I work at a large production plant with staff electricians. They do almost all work hot in panels. They generally can't shut down the panels during their work. They do wear special protective gear that protects from arc flashes.

They have added a lot of circuits in our data center and we couldn't shut down the servers so they could power off the panel. (We should have had fully redundant power so an entire panel could be taken offline, but nobody thought of that when the data center was designed years ago.)

Hi Brian, we're designing now for easier shut downs.

Arc flash gear doesn't prevent the injury, it gives you a survivable burn.

Hot work is a big issue for everyone, as it should be.

Most times it's simply convenient, not necessary..............Regards, Rod.

Rod Sheridan
07-08-2015, 10:58 AM
Good comment Erik, it's not only machinery suppliers such as yourself, all companies are having problems hiring qualified technical staff.

In Canada it is partially to blame on an education system that began directing people to university, instead of college or trade apprenticeships.

Regards, Rod.

Art Mann
07-08-2015, 11:08 AM
I don't think it would be a good idea to answer this question in a general sense because my opinions do not correspond to the majority. The thread would turn more political than it already is. However, I think I can suggest one group that most of us agree are underpaid; that is the moderators of this set of forums.

Peter Kelly
07-08-2015, 11:18 AM
For many years, I worked in corporate retail. The company's shares would struggle, so they would lure in some big executive from another company, make a big press release: "This is the person who's going to turn us around. They bring all this experience, they're a game changer, blah, blah, blah...". Except that "turning things around" always seemed to consist exclusively of slashing payroll. No plans, no leadership, just gut payroll. A year or two would go by, the stocks would not turn around, and this executive would leave with all sorts of compensation and options. Then, coprporate would do the exact same thing all over again. We would all scratch our heads. "What did they really do except give us less hours to run the stores on?" It seemed like they were hiring damage managers, not leaders.

I don't have a fundamental problem with people being well-paid or perhaps even "over-paid" but don't like when executives come in with all sorts of salary and compensation to match some huge expectation, do nothing more than gut the work force, which is the simpleton's way to save money, then waltz back out the door with all that compensation still intact while hard-working people got laid off. Just my 2-cents, as always.

ErikAlso when you see the term "massive restructuring" you can just read "management incompetence". The new executive in charge, laying off large numbers of people is always the quick fix to make it appear that the company is now generating more profit since the “new guy” has not be there long enough to see where the real problems are it's usually a good bet that they will layoff the wrong people and the organization will almost always suffer because of it. Board members will fight and the resulting internal war will just suck up all of management’s time and the company will just continue to circle the drain as the over-paid CEO’s come and go.

Yahoo and HP are great examples of this. Wish I could be paid as much to ruin tech companies in the midst of a tech bubble.

Peter Kelly
07-08-2015, 12:43 PM
Another sterling example of this from Microsoft: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/technology/microsoft-layoffs.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

To sum up:

1) Acquire Nokia's mobile division in 2014
2) Immediately lay off 18,000 employees
3) New CEO being paid $84M / year
4) Squander all upcoming opportunities for market penetration and development
5) Lay off an additional 7,800 mobile group employees in 2015

Did anyone mention to Satya Nadella that mobile computing is a growth industry?

John Conklin
07-08-2015, 4:01 PM
Many days I feel that I'm overpaid...

The remaining days I'm sure that I'm underpaid.

Harold Burrell
07-08-2015, 9:06 PM
Many days I feel that I'm overpaid...

The remaining days I'm sure that I'm underpaid.

Yep...me too...(I mean, about me...not you. )

Phillip Gregory
07-15-2015, 10:18 AM
The only people who can truly be overpaid or underpaid are people who are not involved in an actual market economy. Anywhere there is a free market, supply and demand will cause a wage equilibrium. We might think the equilibrium is off, such as many here believing people in the entertainment field to be overvalued. But that's a different issue than the real issue of overpayment and underpayment. The issue today is that there is a lot of government interference with the market that prevents the market from reaching an equilibrium and people actually DO get underpaid or overpaid relative to what the market would otherwise settle at. The government either explicitly creates wage floors and ceilings (e.g. the minimum wage, government employee salary scales) or indirectly does so by a number of other means (legal monopolies, regulations, rent-seeking laws, being the largest customer in an industry with a no-bid or take-it-or-leave it contracts, etc.) The most notorious examples I can think of are below:

Overpaid
- Federal and most state government administrative positions, especially federal and state elected officials and their staffs.
- Large federal contractors getting a specific contract for their work (bid at price, make a killing on overruns.)
- Nearly all other federal government employees and agents
- Many state and local governmental administrative positions
- Postsecondary educational administrators and professors
- Many local K-12 superintendents, assistant superintendents, and some principals
- Administrative and managerial positions in most government-mandated monopoly private firms (the local telco, the local cable company, etc.)
- Lawyers, especially and particularly trial lawyers.
- Administrative and managerial positions in most firms whose business model is to collect government subsidies (prime example- Elon Musk from Tesla Motors.)
- Unionized employees in a heavily unionized industry with little non-union activity in that field (e.g. auto manufacture)
- Executive positions in most firms where there is successful regulatory capture by existing large firms to keep out new market participants and successful political lobbying to purchase special exemptions from normal laws. Bonus points if the industry has a government mandate to force people to use their products. This particularly describes any kind of government compliance firm, the educational/regulatory certification and testing industry, and most firms larger than $100M in market cap in the healthcare field (especially electronic records firms, insurers, multi-state hospital systems, and government compliance firms)
- Midlevel healthcare providers- nurse practitioners and physician assistants. No other field regularly lets you turn a 4 1/2 to 6 year accelerated master's degree costing about $40k into a $80-100k/year job and the ability to pawn the liability and tough stuff on other people with 11+ years of training and $300k+ in debt, plus an income sometimes barely higher than yours. Note that these positions were largely created and to some extent mandated by the federal government through Medicare and Medicare reimbursement for a midlevel visit is identical to a physician visit, distorting the market severely.
- People on unemployment, welfare, and disability for more than a few months, excepting people with severe medical conditions which preclude them from doing any work at all, such as being completely blind, quadriplegic, a multiple amputee, had a severe stroke or brain injury/tumor, ventilator dependent, etc. Disability for psychiatric conditions where you are still judged to be legally competent and safe to live at home by yourself should not be given as if you can make decisions and be home by yourself safely, you can do some work and are you are overpaid if you get a penny from the taxpayers to sit at home and do nothing.

Underpaid
- Armed service members, on-duty police, border patrol agents.
- K-12 and community college teachers. This does not include paid college lecturers, who are IMHO paid pretty fairly.
- Hospital social workers- grossly underpaid for the "try to do the impossible" job they are asked to do. It's the worst job in the hospital by far.
- Psychiatrists and primary care physicians (family physicians, general internists, pediatricians). It's nearly impossible to hire one as the demand is huge and the supply is tiny, which in Econ 101 means the wages are far too low.
- Most entry and mid-level positions of the firms which are near-monopolies, have successful regulatory capture, and a large government barrier to entry for new firms. The execs of those firms have huge control over the labor market and can essentially set wages due to their near-monopoly status.
- Most people working for firms where their largest customer is the government and there is a blanket "here is our price, take it or leave it" purchasing policy. The money the firm loses by having to sell below cost comes out of the employees' paychecks. This describes many small government contractors including small hospitals and medical offices (Medicare and Medicaid are a "take it or leave it" contract.)
- Anybody doing an internship at a company. This used to be essentially an extended interview where you did some work, were paid usually decently for it, and would be offered a job at the end unless you really stank. Now, it's a mandatory prolonged period of working for a pittance and increasingly for free to even be able to be considered for a job, which you very likely will not get. It's really a way for the execs in market-controlling businesses to try to squeeze some way below market wage labor or even free labor out of people.
- Postdoc students, see above, except it's professors and university execs instead of corporate execs.

Brian Elfert
07-15-2015, 12:15 PM
Overpaid
- Federal and most state government administrative positions, especially federal and state elected officials and their staffs.
- Large federal contractors getting a specific contract for their work (bid at price, make a killing on overruns.)
- Nearly all other federal government employees and agents
- Many state and local governmental administrative positions
- Postsecondary educational administrators and professors
- Many local K-12 superintendents, assistant superintendents, and some principals
- Administrative and managerial positions in most government-mandated monopoly private firms (the local telco, the local cable company, etc.)
- Lawyers, especially and particularly trial lawyers.
- Administrative and managerial positions in most firms whose business model is to collect government subsidies (prime example- Elon Musk from Tesla Motors.)


You obviously think almost anyone who works for anything government related is overpaid. Government competes for workers with the private sector. I've had co-workers in IT who had previously worked for the state. They left because the state was not paying as much as private employers. K-12 education is one of the few areas where there is limited private employment competition.

Phillip Gregory
07-15-2015, 1:38 PM
You obviously think almost anyone who works for anything government related is overpaid. Government competes for workers with the private sector. I've had co-workers in IT who had previously worked for the state. They left because the state was not paying as much as private employers. K-12 education is one of the few areas where there is limited private employment competition.

I will reply to this without going into politics. I will reiterate that a government, being an institution which uses the force of law to directly and indirectly affect markets and their wages completely independent of any market forces, results in people being overpaid or underpaid due to wage/price floors and ceilings. Government employees' salaries are determined by other government employees and by elected officials, not the free market. They thus will be overpaid or underpaid as a result, depending on what priorities are the highest in the minds of the government employees and elected officials that determine government employee salaries at that point in time.

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office compiled a chart (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/42921) a couple years ago of the dollar worth of the average wages and benefit of private sector employees vs. federal government employees by education level in the time period between 2005-2010. (This was their most recent publication on that topic.) The federal government workers got a higher total combined value of wages and benefits for all education levels except professional degree/doctorate. Federal employees with a bachelor's degree or less had wages that were equal to or greater than the private sector employees, plus significantly higher benefits. Federal employees with a master's degree had slightly lower wages than their private-sector counterparts but had a larger benefits package and thus greater total compensation.

So, federal employees except for the small number who have doctorate or professional degrees get paid more than their private-sector counterparts. Thus, they are overpaid relative to the market, and that is an economic observation, not a political statement. The numbers may differ for other political subdivisions; the CBO chart was readily and easily available to discuss.