New Kapex 120

[Mike Phillips]

I just got a Festool Kapex 120 sliding compound miter saw. The first two cuts on it didn't go so well. A dowel was marked at exactly 3". When I made the cut, the right laser was directly over the 3" mark. The cutoff is to the right of the blade. After I made the cut, the cutoff piece was 3-1/16" long. Just to be sure, I did it again, and I got the same result. Either the laser is misaligned, or I don't know how to use it. As a beginner, I'm not into calibrating new, very expensive tools, so I'd like to understand what's happening. Thoughts?

[Steve Wilde]

Mike,
The lasers occasionally need to be aligned, it's a really easy process. They may come out of alignment during shipping and such. most of my festoons are dead on out of the box, but occasionally they need a little adjustment. Print out this supplemental manual and read it, it's got some really great stuff in it. It will also show you how to calibrate the lasers. Welcome to the green cool aid.... It's a very slippery slope!
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Kapex_KS120_R3_1.pdf

[Mike Phillips]

Steve, thanks for that MUCH better manual. That being said, I think I'm going to let Festool calibrate the lasers. I spent big bucks on this one because of the bad experience I had with a cheap Hitachi saw. The decal has to be punctured to adjust the laser.

[Steve Wilde]

Ok, do what you like but if the shippers knock it around a bit you may have to redo it. Anything that gets shipped from your kapex to a table saw will need some minor adjustments. Not worth the hassle to send it in in my opinion. I would bet festool will even send you a new decal if you really want. Just my 2 cents though...

[James Zhu]

Check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr_a0jWnm_U for all the calibration including laser adjustment.

[Tom Ewell]

First thing I did on mine was check for square, learned the saw functions and doodads, then set the lasers to how I liked them.

Don't recall (it's been 5 years or so) how far off the lasers were off (if at all) but setting them was no big deal. Mine are set to have the mark on the stock just inside the laser, if I'm fitting a piece I'll cut with the mark on the laser then trim to fit.

Best bet is to check out the saw by cutting something other than a dowel.

Let Festool calibrate it if you wish (1/16 does sound a bit off) but they still might not get how you like it.

[johnny means]

Sounds like driving 20 miles to save a dollar on ground beef. Fiddling with equipment is part of the deal.

[Mike Phillips]

So how much does a saw cost that you DON'T have to fiddle with? Remember, I'm a beginner.

[Jebediah Eckert]

So how much does a saw cost that you DON'T have to fiddle with? Remember, I'm a beginner.

If there was only such a world.......I'm racking my brain trying to think of anything I have woodworking related, that plugs in, that didn't need some type of adjustment. I'm at a loss. I've never relied on a laser, table rule on tablesaw, router table gauge, anything like that. I find that the angle you look at all these marking devices with machines have to much variance if you want precision. If the laser is out of alignment greater then that can be adjusted then send it back. Like Tom said adjust it to your preference.

Even a Lie Nielsen handplane needs a little adjustment before use.

I guess a precision square, a newly sharpened handsaw, and maybe a screwdriver don't need any adjustment whatsoever but I really had to think about that for a minute.

If it cuts dead square your way ahead of most saws out of the box. If lasers were never invented I'm sure you could still get fantastic results out of that saw.

[Mike Heidrick]

Some of the dewalt SCMS/CMS have an led light over the blade. Shadow line always makes a perfect line where the blade will cut and never needs adjusted. You can see the teeth in the shadow when the saw is off and the full kerf shadow when the blade spins. It is an amazing invention for a cms/scms.

[Craig Hoehn]

I don't think Festool even attempts to get the lasers spot on from the factory. I had to adjust mine myself but they are now dead on. Pretty much every tool you should expect to tweak to get it perfect. A good quality tool will have all the major components good to go, like flat tables, square surfaces, and well designed and easy to access adjustment points. You could pay $40,000+ for a table saw but guess what? I wont show up perfect and it will need fine adjustments once it is in place.

[Kent Adams]

So how much does a saw cost that you DON'T have to fiddle with? Remember, I'm a beginner.

The Kapex is nowhere near the most expensive mitre saw, not....even...close. However, I've not worked with any piece of equipment which had moving parts that didn't require an adjustment.

[Dave Lehnert]

So how much does a saw cost that you DON'T have to fiddle with? Remember, I'm a beginner.

You are going to do woodworking but don't want to make adjustments to your tools ??????? No such thing.
Kinda like wanting to be a preacher but not work on Sundays.

[Mike Phillips]

No, it's more like buying a new car and not having to stop off at the repair shop on the way home.

[Victor Robinson]

Part of the thing with the lasers is people have different preferences on where they want the lasers to be relative to their workpiece mark and the kerf. You have to be willing to adjust them. It's quite simple. The adjustments on tools is what makes them expensive. Imagine a laser that couldn't be adjusted and you have a $150 miter saw, and one that couldn't be adjusted very well or hold its adjustments and you have pretty much all the other ones.

[Tom Ewell]

No, it's more like buying a new car and not having to stop off at the repair shop on the way home.
More like buying a new car and can't figure out how to set the stations on the radio without reading the manual or fiddling with the buttons.

[Jason Beam]

First rule of woodworking: Make no assumptions that the gauge is set accurately. Confirm for yourself. If you don't want to adjust your tooling, you might want to reconsider your hobby.

[Mike Cutler]

Mark

Festool stands behind their stuff, so I wouldn't have any hesitation sending it back and having them do the adjustment for you. If nothing else, ask them for a decal to replace after you make the adjustment yourself, if you decide to go that route. You paid lot of $$$$, and you want it to look correct.

I would venture to say that just about all wood working related machines require adjustments from time to time, some pretty significant. The machines operate at somewhat high speeds, and are usually spinning some type of a mass to perform their function. With this comes vibration and things get loose with time, it's going to happen. Once you get more immersed in the hobby, you'll get more comfortable making these minor tweaks.
I've taken brand new machines completely apart, reworked mating faces, replaced crappy fasteners, changed out all the bearings, machined new pieces, and modified the design of certain parts, before I even used the machine. I find it a challenge to take a somewhat inexpensive machine and make it work much better. It's child's play for me and I enjoy doing it, but not every one does. That's understandable.;)

Get ahold of Festool, get an RMA, and send the saw back and let them do the adjustment for you. There's nothing wrong with that.

As a word of advice though;
Never trust that laser, or any preset marking reference device, on any machine, explicitly. Always verify it.
Nothing beats a set of quality machine rules.;)

[glenn bradley]

As others have said, some in a more supportive spirit than others, our tools are vary personal. Even if a tool (any tool) is set perfectly to factory standards, I may like the tension just a little lower or the table waxed, of a different handle position. In many cases we tend to set our tools to our preferences rather than adapt our methods to the tool.

I have had large machines arrive ready-to-go out of the crate but, they eventually got a little care and feeding to optimize them for my use. I have also gotten machines that required quite a bit of care and feeding just to get then ready to perform the initial operations. I think the point is that some adjustment to a new tool is not out of the ordinary; the degree of effort is certainly an arguable point.

It would not surprise me if the Festool's lasers were 'generally' set during assembly knowing that the final adjustments are part of the initial machine setup. The one machine I have with laser guides had the laser alignment as an assembly step in the manual.

P.s. As others have mentioned, many types of work requires a level of accuracy that makes the laser useless for anything other than getting in the ball park. I would not stress over it too much but, that's just me.

[Edward P. Surowiec]

Hello Mike , just a thought did you clamp your stock?? I have had the saw pull the stock and move it off the cut line. A dowel is difficult to hold particularly with small diameters. I do not own a Kapex but would sure love to have one . It seems that Festool has not met your expectations perhaps you should take them up on their 30 day full refund offer .

[Kent Adams]

I just got a Festool Kapex 120 sliding compound miter saw. The first two cuts on it didn't go so well. A dowel was marked at exactly 3". When I made the cut, the right laser was directly over the 3" mark. The cutoff is to the right of the blade. After I made the cut, the cutoff piece was 3-1/16" long. Just to be sure, I did it again, and I got the same result. Either the laser is misaligned, or I don't know how to use it. As a beginner, I'm not into calibrating new, very expensive tools, so I'd like to understand what's happening. Thoughts?

Never ever buy a jointer if the laser adjustment is too troublesome for you. It can take a half of a day to get a jointer adjusted properly, even if you're a "pro".

[Rick Christopherson]

Steve, thanks for that MUCH better manual. Thank you.


That being said, I think I'm going to let Festool calibrate the lasers. I spent big bucks on this one because of the bad experience I had with a cheap Hitachi saw. The decal has to be punctured to adjust the laser.The thing about the lasers is that where they are set is a matter of personal preference that varies from woodworker to woodworker. So sending it to Lebanon, IL for recalibration won't necessarily suit your personal preferences. Some woodworkers want their lasers just outside the blade, some inside, and some for the blade to slice down the center of them. Only you know exactly where and how you want them set.

One word of caution if you run through the other calibration procedures; don't over-calibrate. The procedures give ultra-accurate numbers, and many new owners tend to tweak a saw that was already accurate. Trying to calibrate a miter down to 0.001 degree is down in the realm where simply moving your hand or shifting your body weight will skew the result.

Edit: Also, don't get too hung up on making a zero-clearance throat plate. Unlike a tablesaw where the ZCI will reduce tearout, for a miter saw, all it does is prevent tiny offcuts from falling under the turntable. I'm still using the same ZCI I built for the manual, and that is approaching 7 years old now.

[Larry Edgerton]

No, it's more like buying a new car and not having to stop off at the repair shop on the way home.


You are delusional. Don't mean that as an insult, just that you are not facing reality

I have spent a couple hundred grand over the years on tools and can not think of one with moving parts that did not need a tweak when at my shop. Its part of the process, embrace it. Learn how to adjust your laser, because at some point in the future you will need to do it again. Its not broken.

Larry

[John Schweikert]

Well, I think Mike has been beat up enough. Calibrating the lasers should be a fairly easy procedure thanks to Rick (his manuals are incredibly appreciated).

I have only 3 Festools, TS75, Domino 500 and Carvex.

For my TS75, I removed the faceplate and squared the blade vertically (not related to toe-in) to a cutting surface adjusting the 2 set screws. Made a noticeable improvement. Wasn't an issue at all and now it's set for the long haul. But in no way was it set correctly from the factory.

On the Domino 500 the adjustable fence can easily shift out of square or whatever angle you set if the lock down lever can't swing enough to tighten down hard. Many users experience this. The lever screw must be loosened, the lever reseated slightly at a new angle and the screw retightened. It's all about the available arc space and reaching full lock down.

The Carvex is a very cool jigsaw but not without quirks and minor limitations. The angle foot is really designed better for edge cutting, because it does not permit enough platform for cutting in the middle of pieces, only half the foot makes contact. The angle foot goes against the design of all other manufacturers' designs historically. While annoying, it's still a pretty cool design for what it can do. For the barrel grip jigsaw, the placement of the green power switches are not ergonomically correct. They are way out of reach from a normal handhold. That to me is more of safety issue.

These anecdotes serve to show that spending money and more money than other tools cost, does not guarantee flawlessness. Tools are made by humans, designed and built by humans. Perfection does not exist. Learning to adjust things to suit yourself is a lifelong necessity in the world of hobby or professional woodworking.

If you haven't yet joined the FOG, Festool Owners Group forum, it may serve you well too.

And again a thank you to Rick. His supplemental manuals are the first thing I download after buying a Festool. Far more informational than the included manuals.

[peter gagliardi]

I am almost positive that it states right in the manual that one of the lasers is aligned dead on, the other is supposed to be adjusted by the end user, though I could be wrong.

[Patrick McCarthy]

[QUOTE=John Schweikert;2439533]Well, I think Mike has been beat up enough. Calibrating the lasers should be a fairly easy procedure thanks to Rick (his manuals are incredibly appreciated).

I have only 3 Festools, TS75, Domino 500 and Carvex.

For my TS75, I removed the faceplate and squared the blade vertically (not related to toe-in) to a cutting surface adjusting the 2 set screws. Made a noticeable improvement. Wasn't an issue at all and now it's set for the long haul. But in no way was it set correctly from the factory.

John, not to hijack the thread, but I have the TS75 and now you have me intrigued about to check mine for plumb/ square. Any directions would me appreciated. Thank you, patrick

[guy knight]

cant remember a machine that didnt need adjusted when i got it from a cheap chopsaw to a kapex to a sawstop bandsaw 5000 dollar sander everythig needs to be adjusted when new and every now and then just part of the game

[Rick Christopherson]

John, not to hijack the thread, but I have the TS75 and now you have me intrigued about to check mine for plumb/ square. Any directions would me appreciated. Thank you, patrickThe procedure for the TS75 EQ is the same as the older TS55 EQ (not the new REQ). It's covered in the previous manual. They are ALL located here: http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/

One thing to consider, though, is that your guide rails have foam "grip" strips. Because these can be compressed, and may vary from short cuts, long cuts, and different rails; you probably don't need to get too picky with a calibration unless you have a specific cut that must be dead perfect.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Rick, thank you very much. I appreciate the help/direction. Patrick