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ken hatch
07-02-2015, 7:37 AM
I admit, I'm a sucker for any new shiny object that catches my eye. Also while I do almost all my sharpening freehand there are some irons where a jig could help. One is a pig sticker mortice chisel because the iron has a shape that is difficult to hold square and most are narrow. Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Bottom line I ordered the new Lie-Nielsen honing guide with the mortice chisel attachment a couple of days ago, it should be here sometime next week.

Once in hand I'll post if it does what I hope it will do, keep the iron square with out too much monkey motion.

ken

Frederick Skelly
07-02-2015, 8:03 AM
I'll look forward to reading that, Ken! Thanks. :)

Robert Engel
07-02-2015, 9:31 AM
It will work :)

Ralph Boumenot
07-02-2015, 10:43 AM
What is up with this Ken? I've been waiting over 3 years for this to hit the streets. I just checked the website and it doesn't have anything. When I checked with Deneb at Amana in may he told me that it wasn't going to be ready for a while yet. I guess being on a list to be one the first informed means nothing.

Mike Brady
07-02-2015, 10:51 AM
What is up with this Ken? I've been waiting over 3 years for this to hit the streets. I just checked the website and it doesn't have anything. When I checked with Deneb at Amana in may he told me that it wasn't going to be ready for a while yet. I guess being on a list to be one the first informed means nothing.
They are still contacting people. There were over 400 signed up to be notified. Just call customer service and place an order. They aren't cheap, though.

Brian Holcombe
07-02-2015, 11:11 AM
I'll wait until they post up on the site, but I wouldn't mind getting one of these. I like to freehand the finish stones, but up until then I prefer to use the guide.

ken hatch
07-02-2015, 9:19 PM
What is up with this Ken? I've been waiting over 3 years for this to hit the streets. I just checked the website and it doesn't have anything. When I checked with Deneb at Amana in may he told me that it wasn't going to be ready for a while yet. I guess being on a list to be one the first informed means nothing.

Ralph,

I think some one else mentioned just giving LN a call. I missed the call from LN and did just that called 'em back the next day to place the order. I expect a call will do the job.

ken

Jebediah Eckert
07-02-2015, 10:06 PM
Like posted on another thread (in case you missed it) I stopped by Lie Nielsen last Thursday. We have family about 20 minutes away so I stopped by for a tour. I jokingly asked the person in the showroom if the Honing guide was ever going to be ready. He laughed and said "as a matter of fact" they just started emailing people that very day. I bought one and got the 10% off. The retail on the "basic" guide, whatever that is, was $125. The guides were done and ready but he couldn't give me one right there, something to do with box or directions or something. They are shipping me the guide for free in a week or two from when I ordered. I told him if he takes my money and it doesn't ship in two weeks or better I was driving back up and making him give me another tour, and another, and another, until I have it in hand. He assured me they are ready and would ship when he said. Either way, I enjoyed the tour and wouldn't mind doing it a few more times. There were zero disappointments on the tour as to how they work and build their tools.

Tony Shea
07-03-2015, 2:08 PM
I was thinking of posting a thread that said the new honing guide is available if they called LN and inquired about it. The reason I decided against posting it was because I am selfish. I plan on going to the Open House next week and wanted to pick it up there to get the 10% discount and also to handle it for myself. I didn't want everyone jumping on the bandwagon and ordering one only to have LN sell out by the time I get there next week. But since the cat is out of the bag then YES the LN new honing guide is FINALLY available.

Mike Brady
07-03-2015, 5:37 PM
YES the LN new honing guide is FINALLY available. ..... to order. None have been shipped that I know of.

Mike Brady
07-09-2015, 9:48 AM
Still waiting. Anyone received theirs yet? L-N's shop is closed down this week and their Open House is this weekend. Probably not much shipping being done.

Jebediah Eckert
07-09-2015, 11:13 AM
I emailed them yesterday telling them I received a block plane they fixed for me. They fixed it for free and it looks brand new. I ended with a zinger about the honing guide I ordered two weeks ago today. She responded late next week, or first thing the week after, they will go out for the people who ordered earliest. She said I would be in the first shipment so I guess I was in the first round of orders.

The simple answer is only they know for sure...........

ken hatch
07-09-2015, 1:54 PM
..... to order. None have been shipped that I know of.

Mine shipped today.

J. Greg Jones
07-09-2015, 3:40 PM
Mine shipped today also, which is the day I was told it would ship when I placed my order. I would expect that the bulk of the early orders will go out today or tomorrow.

Brian Holcombe
07-09-2015, 4:17 PM
pictures :D

ken hatch
07-09-2015, 5:35 PM
pictures :D

Brian,

When it is in my grubby hands :-).

They just shipped the jig, the reason I ordered it was for the mortise chisel attachment. Oh well, I guess it may be awhile before I put it to work.

ken

Brian Holcombe
07-09-2015, 5:39 PM
Cool :D I'm excited to see how well it works. I have the $15 special, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

david charlesworth
07-10-2015, 3:09 AM
I think you will be very pleased.

best wishes,
David

Andrew Pitonyak
07-10-2015, 3:56 PM
Brian,

When it is in my grubby hands :-).

They just shipped the jig, the reason I ordered it was for the mortise chisel attachment. Oh well, I guess it may be awhile before I put it to work.

ken

Maybe he wanted a picture of you eagerly waiting for it! :D

Can't wait to hear how you like it.... even though I rarely use a guide (I use the Tormek for a hollow grind and then I free hand after that), there are times that it might be very useful.

Brian Holcombe
07-10-2015, 4:52 PM
Indeed;

https://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/waiting.jpg?w=460

This is how I feel when I find out it will be 6 months wait for some chisels, :)

Mike Brady
07-10-2015, 8:44 PM
I know that feeling, Brian. My response to LN is: "While we're young?"

Harold Burrell
07-10-2015, 11:03 PM
"While we're young?"

Too late for me. :(

ken hatch
07-11-2015, 8:52 PM
Arrived in todays mail....I haven't opened the box yet. I had pool boy duties this afternoon and now SWMBO wants dinner out. Like they say it's a dirty job but..... I guess photos will have to follow later.

john zulu
07-12-2015, 10:07 AM
LN Honing Guide seems to gain a lot of interest in this group. I own the MKII and hardly use it nowadays. Maybe I find it too cumbersome. Still when honing bevel up planes I still use it. In contrast I find LN guide similar.

Is there a real difference I am missing out?

Simon MacGowen
07-12-2015, 2:59 PM
Maybe I find it too cumbersome.

In what way? I suppose all jigs have to be set to use them. But if you are not using the MKII and have found a way of sharpening, you don't need the new honing guide from LN. It is not automatic and you will still need to get it set up every time you want to use it.

Simon

ken hatch
07-12-2015, 10:11 PM
I had a couple of minutes to take the guide out of the box and do a glamor shot or two.

For now it will not get a lot of use. The main reason I wanted one was for my pig stickers, because of their shape and narrow iron they are difficult for me to keep square freehand. Once the mortise attachment comes I'll see if there is joy in Casa Chaos.

From left to right: A Eclipse clone, the LN, a Eclipse:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/jigLNtop20150712_zpsnpzi33au.jpg

Wheel side:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/jigLNwheelSide20150712_zpswxxyamup.jpg

With a paring chisel set for 25 degree bevel:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/jigLNwithChisel20150712_zpsc34anyyh.jpg

As posted earlier, I do not expect the jig will get a lot of love. I'm happy with freehand sharpening my bench chisels but I can see it being handy for very narrow chisels and the pig stickers if the attachments for those work.

Brian Holcombe
07-12-2015, 10:26 PM
Thanks Ken! It looks pretty sweet. I like to set bevels with a jig, I am just not practiced enough to maintain perfect flatness freehand in the early stones. On the finish stone I prefer freehand.

ken hatch
07-12-2015, 10:58 PM
Thanks Ken! It looks pretty sweet. I like to set bevels with a jig, I am just not practiced enough to maintain perfect flatness freehand in the early stones. On the finish stone I prefer freehand.

Brian,

I expect reestablishing bevels will be where it gets the most use along with the mortise chisels. It will hold the Japanese paring chisels but not the bench chisels. I think there is a Japanese chisel attachment in the works, I hope so because it would be nice to have a jig that works with Japanese bench chisels.

Whatever, I figured it was worth a shot. I've spent a lot more on things that sounded good but weren't....In fact I've a "tool room" stuffed full of 'em.

ken

Brian Holcombe
07-12-2015, 11:30 PM
Are the bench chisels too thick as they taper into the shaft? That's the same problem I have with the eclipse on some chisels (not all).

ken hatch
07-13-2015, 10:47 AM
Are the bench chisels too thick as they taper into the shaft? That's the same problem I have with the eclipse on some chisels (not all).

Brian,

That's the problem. I could be wrong, it has happened before, but I think I read they are working on a Japanese chisel attachment. I hope so, it would be nice to have a jig to re-flatten the bevels on Japanese chisels.

ken

Brian Holcombe
07-13-2015, 11:02 AM
That would be cool. My tasai chisels are the worst for that, none of them fit. Most of the kikuhiromaru barely fit in the eclipse. Most of the koyamaichi fit, no problem.

Josh Salomon
07-14-2015, 8:53 PM
Up on the LN website now:

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/whats-new/honing-guide-bladesstandard?node=4128

Marko Milisavljevic
07-14-2015, 11:42 PM
Leaves quite to be desired as far as some useful data on their site... what is the difference between standard and chisel attachments, other than what appears to be slightly smaller notch? I can see chisel one being useful for very narrow chisels, where standard one might full close without grabbing the chisel, is that it? Pricey, but if it works well, I would consider it.

Allan Speers
07-14-2015, 11:45 PM
At $125, I'm trying very hard to understand the attraction.

Doesn't it have exactly the same functionality as the Eclipse?

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 12:00 AM
It is made more precisely from solid stainless steel instead of cast poopoo, with multiple attachments to accommodate different thickness and length blades, as well as skewed blades, presumably with less slop and bowing out than the cheap one, giving you some pleasure every time you pick it up and admire (I'm assuming this) a well-made and thought-out tool, where meeting a price point wasn't the main consideration. Otherwise it is the same.

Mike Brady
07-15-2015, 12:06 AM
I think the standard jaws fit plane blades and wider chisels. The narrow jaws are for narrow chisels. I can tell you on Thursday.;)

For those of you who don't get the difference between this and the old Eclipse model jig, well you just need to use both of them and then ask that question again. One thing I read that I liked was the fact that the bearing is bronze and can be replaced. Wheels on the Eclipse jigs can get pretty sloppy after long use on water stones and the abrasive slurry they generate.

Note that the listing states that this honing guide was designed specifically for Lie-Nielsen tools. I wouldn't be surprised to see other jaws in the future.

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 12:29 AM
Note that the listing states that this honing guide was designed specifically for Lie-Nielsen tools.

Hmm... "We have designed these jaws for our blades and chisels, not other makers."

I wonder if they incorporate some kind of DRM, so threads on the screw stay retracted unless it detects an LN blade.

david charlesworth
07-15-2015, 2:43 AM
The options of small chisel jaws, (which will also hold the fishtail chisels), mortice chisel jaws, two different skewed jaws, and the small blade jaws, make this rather more versatile than the Eclipse!!

David

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 3:01 AM
They need to hire David to consult with their marketing department, because rather than calling the item by what it is and leaving it to people to think it through, he is calling it by what it is for, and making things much clearer:

Chisel Jaw Pair -> Narrow Chisel Jaws
Long Jaw Pair -> Short Blade Jaws

Brian Holcombe
07-15-2015, 8:29 AM
It makes sense that they would not advertise it for other maker's chisels, which would introduce a great deal of variables.

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 11:54 AM
I think what disappoints me about this so far is complete lack of specifications so it is impossible to tell what the ominous warning about not using it with other makers means. I was really looking forward to a possible alternative to LV jig - and almost all of my tools are LV so I'll stay $200 richer I guess.

Josh Salomon
07-15-2015, 12:01 PM
I think what disappoints me about this so far is complete lack of specifications so it is impossible to tell what the ominous warning about not using it with other makers means. I was really looking forward to a possible alternative to LV jig - and almost all of my tools are LV so I'll stay $200 richer I guess.


I think they are just being risk averse - they don't want somebody to find some plane iron or chisel that doesn't fit and then complain that they were misled by claims of universality. I got to try this out with my 3/8" LV chisel and it worked perfectly, so I suspect that it will work with lots of non-LN tools. They just want to be clear that they are only guaranteeing that it will work with LN tools. Having tried it I can say that it is a major improvement over my Eclipse knockoff in how nicely it grips the chisel, and I will definitely be buying one soon. I am not sold on all of the accessory jaws but most likely would think about the mortise chisel one, the skew one (which I hope will fit my LV skew rabbet), and possibly the long jaws if there is confirmation that these would work with shoulder plane irons and maybe some of the non-rectangular LV block plane irons.

Jim Koepke
07-15-2015, 1:25 PM
I think what disappoints me about this so far is complete lack of specifications so it is impossible to tell what the ominous warning about not using it with other makers means. I was really looking forward to a possible alternative to LV jig - and almost all of my tools are LV so I'll stay $200 richer I guess.

Being a hand sharpening kind of guy my participation in this thread has until now been only in reading.

What specifications could they include for the average tool user to make it possible to tell if it was going to work with their tools?

It is unlikely for me to purchase a honing guide, guess the enrichment by a few hundred dollars will also accrue to me. It would be helpful if they listed the maximum plane blade size it will hold. LN used to be much better at supplying all the extra information some of us wood geeks crave. Maybe too many trolls with a micrometer made them decide to quit doing us such favors.

The "ominous warning about not using it with other makers" must have slipped by me. There is a mention that LN designed their honing guide to work with the tools they make. It seems honest to me to mention that it isn't designed to work with every tool from every maker since the beginning of Mankind began working wood.

Is there a single honing guide in existence, not counting bare hands, that makes the claim of being able to handle every blade ever made?

jtk

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 2:14 PM
In my view reasonable and expected specification should include:

- height/width of notches, so user would know what is maximum and minimum thickness of chisel or blade that would be held securely
- whether there is any tapering of notches/sides are they are even and parallel along the jaw
- what is the required or suggested length of a blade, or parallel section of a blade, for each of the jaws to get "standard" sharpening angles - do I need a standard or long jaw for this spokeshave blade - how can I tell?
- how much play is in the mechanism and can it accommodate blades where sides are X degrees out of parallel

It seems we have very low expectations for even the best toolmakers when it comes to giving specifications for their products. "Hey, here's the product, it is only intended for use with our blades, we won't even tell you anything about that, hope you can figure the rest out - maybe have some guys buy them on a forum and write the manual for others?". IMHO they must do better, this is not a $15 piece of junk you can just buy for the heck of it and toss if it doesn't work for you.

Edit: actually they do include information for length of blade required for standard and mortise jaws.

Mike Brady
07-15-2015, 2:24 PM
I'm confident, based on past experience, that Lie-Nielsen will be able to answer most concerns, particularly after the new product has been in user's hands for a time. The saying:"You don't know what you don't know" applies here. How are they to know what products other then theirs will be compatible?

Here's one question I have: How will the heavily cambered cutter from the scrub plane be handled? The wheel is narrow enough to rock the jig, but the brass knob might hit the sharpening media doing that. Personally, I'm keeping an eclipse clone around for just such uses.

Jim Koepke
07-15-2015, 2:57 PM
How will the heavily cambered cutter from the scrub plane be handled?

Via some back channels it has been learned a single manufacturing company in Maine is working on casting elliptical mobius wheels to produce a rocking motion. There are reports of prototypes with both 4" and 6" circumference ratios.

jtk

Marko Milisavljevic
07-15-2015, 3:40 PM
Hope it has WiFi so we can monitor it remotely.

Kees Heiden
07-17-2015, 10:00 AM
.... This is not a $15 piece of junk ...

Hey, I object strongly. :p
The Eclipse is cheap. Of course. But it is not junk. It works as advertised for a long time in a hostile environment. The new expensive one will need to prove itself first.

Simon MacGowen
07-17-2015, 11:09 AM
Hey, I object strongly. :p
The Eclipse is cheap. Of course. But it is not junk. It works as advertised for a long time in a hostile environment. The new expensive one will need to prove itself first.

I absolutely agree that the Eclipse is a piece of junk - in the hands of someone who is unskilled in using it. All tools are like that and look at Paul Sellers who can plane anything with a $10 refurnished Stanley as well as (and probably better than) someone who owns a $2,000 infill plane.

It is good that L.N. came up with an improved honing jig which is geared towards L.N. fans and newbies (who need a budget of $500 when stones etc. are included). The reality is 90%+ of woodworkers are hobbyists and like playing golf, they don't need to justify how much they spend on what they buy as long as they have the hobby money. People shouldn't be uptight about others spending their money. I started with honing jigs and now go freehand 99% of the time and this new honing system is not needed in my shop, but I hope it will help those who have been struggling with their old systems or simply want a new toy.

Simon

Kees Heiden
07-17-2015, 12:31 PM
You would have to be very unskilled if you can't sharpen a chisel with the Eclipse. That's the whole point of the thing, taking the skill out if it.

I really don't mind how people spend their money. I just get a bit nervous when someone sais this new thing "improves their sharpening".

Steven Lee, NC
07-17-2015, 12:31 PM
Kell honing guide is my favorite. LN looks promising but at 2X the cost it would be hard to justify.

317553

Derek Cohen
07-17-2015, 12:34 PM
I freehand just about all my blades so do not have a great interest in purchasing another honing guide, of which I have several (what can I say - I like trying stuff). So far it strikes me that the essence of the LN guide has been missed.

The LN guide is an advance over the Eclipse, and other guides, and this is NOT about being built out of SS and to higher tolerances .... all those features are good, but they are not what makes this guide excellent.

The LN guide may resemble the Eclipse, but it is NOT just an expensive version of the Eclipse. It is a different design. Similarities are merely superficial.

What makes this guide excellent is that it registers from its back. The LV also registers from the back, but all others (including the Eclipse) register from the bevel side. Registering from the back of the blade provides repeatibility with bevel angles. Side clamping makes it easier to achieve square bevels.

What the LN lacks is a built-in ability to create secondary bevels, as found on the LV guides. This is not a deal breaker, since the combination of side clamping plus back registration is what is important.

Regards from Perth

Derek

david charlesworth
07-17-2015, 12:50 PM
Derek,

I'm not sure that shortening a projection by 2 or 3 mm is much more arduous than moving the cam roller?

The blade holding department is much more secure on the Eclipse & L-N.

Best wishes,
David

Jim Koepke
07-17-2015, 1:01 PM
I just get a bit nervous when someone sais this new thing "improves their sharpening".

The "new thing" that improved my sharpening was paying closer attention to what I was doing.

Hope that doesn't make you a bit nervous. :eek:

jtk

Derek Cohen
07-17-2015, 1:03 PM
David, I would argue that the average user would find that a twist of the knob on the LV would be preferred to loosening the blade and resetting the projection in the LN and Eclipse.

However, I've already said that I consider that this is a minor factor compared with the advantage of side clamping. When I use a honing guide it is for BU planes, and I do not hone multiple bevels - just a single secondary bevel at 50 degrees.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Jim Koepke
07-17-2015, 1:07 PM
What the LN lacks is a built-in ability to create secondary bevels, as found on the LV guides.

This is the place for a different ruler trick. Place a ruler under the roller to lift the guide a touch for the secondary bevel. It will limit the amount of travel, but for a secondary bevel a little travel is all one needs.

jtk

Jim Koepke
07-17-2015, 1:09 PM
Kell honing guide is my favorite. LN looks promising but at 2X the cost it would be hard to justify.

317553

The standard guide will not accept most plane blades. The outboard wheels may present a problem with wide blades on narrow stones.

Never have this problem free handing.

jtk

david charlesworth
07-17-2015, 1:22 PM
Derek,

Do my three bevels count as multiple!!

The advantage of my third micro bevel is that I don't take more than 3 strokes on the polishing stone.

(Grind, wire edge on coarse stone, polish edge with 3 strokes).

David

Brian Holcombe
07-17-2015, 1:34 PM
I use a guide to grind the initial bevel, I think this is where alot of debate happens because in many case we're all talking about different things. One guy is talking about a grind followed by a small secondary bevel, another is talking about full bevels, another is talking about convex bevels, another is talking about hollow grinds followed by a secondary bevel.

I've managed this;
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/ADCB3E8E-C782-4AEB-B1EE-B1B2E8ECBF56_zpszyldqtgo.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyGoomba/media/ADCB3E8E-C782-4AEB-B1EE-B1B2E8ECBF56_zpszyldqtgo.jpg.html)

And for me that practically requires a guide, I'm not up to some of the master level sharpeners which can do this entirely freehand. I follow up by hand on the finish stone only, because at that point its mostly self-jigging. In any case I will usually refresh the grind once I notice it start becoming too convex for my taste.

ken hatch
07-17-2015, 3:03 PM
I've used the guide to re-fresh the bevel on a Japanese paring chisel. A couple or three take aways: First I agree with Derek, while it looks like an Eclipse it functions differently. David is correct it is much easier to set and holds the chisel much better than either the LV or Eclipse with no slippage and alined, and I expect I will end up using it as Brian suggested to re-flatten the bevel on the chisels I want to have a flat bevel. Damn I'm an agreeable sod today, must be the meds.

ken