Festool Kapex

[Kent Adams]

Rather than go on FOG, I thought I'd ask this question here.

I have several Festool tools and love each one, but for the life of me, I can't see any reason to buy a Kapex miter saw at $1400. I currently have a Bosch CM10GD. The only advantage I see with the Kapex is the dust collection, which from the videos I've watched is clearly superior to the Bosch. Dust collection is important to me in my small shop, but logically, I can't make the case in my mind to trade "up".

I have no interest in making a large dust collection box in the back, the space in my workshop is very limited and the layout in my shop isn't conducive to a dust collection box (just trust me on that). However, I don't think the extra $700 for better dust collection is warranted. Putting aside any bias about Festool, can anyone tell me that the Kapex can do something different or better than the Bosch? I'm trying to talk myself out of buying the Kapex. Cost isn't a limitation for me, only the logical leap that better dust collection is worth $700 if that is the only thing it can do better than the Bosch.

[Wade Lippman]

I got mine for the small footprint and the dust collection. Other than that it is just a saw. I only got mine because Microsoft was inexplicably willing to pay for 35% of it.

[Phil Thien]

I got mine for the small footprint and the dust collection. Other than that it is just a saw. I only got mine because Microsoft was inexplicably willing to pay for 35% of it.

I've heard mixed reports on the dust collection, care to share your perspective on these?

[Ray Newman]

I run a older, but very accurate, Hitachi C10FS which is probably close to twenty years old by now. Mostly use it for trimming to length, miters for small boxes, etc. The big bugaboo is dust collection. Last year, I seriously thought about replacing it with the Kapex because of better dust control and smaller footprint.

Went to the local tool suppliers three or four times and handled/examined the Kapex. Well made and compact saw, but the adjustments /ergonomics just did not feel comfortable to me. Now, it could be that this simply was the result of not being totally familiar with the saw. And other than dust collection, I did not see what the Kapex would do better than what the Hitachi now does.

If you have not done a hands-on of the Kapex, I seriously recommend doing so.

One more thing for improved/better dust collection, the salesman strongly advised purchasing the larger diameter hose than what I normally run on my Fe$Tool track saw and CT33E dust vac.

[Keith Hankins]

Well, I pre-ordered mine when they were first introduced. It has been in use flawlessly since. I will say that I have a good bit of green machines, and none were cheap. If budget is your overriding factor then I'd say no get a cheaper unit. However as the old saying goes, better to feel that sting ($$) in the beginning than over and over.

I use my festool tools in conjunction with my CT33/e DC and its just an awesome system. I really like how DC is at the heart of their design process not an afterthought.

When I got mine a good bit of selling features did not apply to me like the light weight and so forth as I don't go on a job site, so I don't get that benefit. However, the easy of dialing that bevel in is sweet. The quick change and setup and lock it and it stays there. Huge benefit as I can't stand fiddling The dual lasters are a nice add as well. Finally it's dead on every time. I have mine set up as a dedicated station with a shop vac attached on an automatic on/off switch so it fires when I turn the saw on.

Never has failed me, and the dc is off the charts. Again, not saying any others are bad as I have not owned or used the Hitachi. Looking back all the years I've had it, don't have a problem with buying it and I'd get it again. It ain't cheap, but then I've not found a cheap Festool tool.

Never had one fail on me either.

Good luck.

[Kent Adams]

Microsoft was willing to pay 35%? Now that is something I want to know more about. :confused:

[Kent Adams]

Well, I pre-ordered mine when they were first introduced. It has been in use flawlessly since. I will say that I have a good bit of green machines, and none were cheap. If budget is your overriding factor then I'd say no get a cheaper unit. However as the old saying goes, better to feel that sting ($$) in the beginning than over and over.

I use my festool tools in conjunction with my CT33/e DC and its just an awesome system. I really like how DC is at the heart of their design process not an afterthought.

When I got mine a good bit of selling features did not apply to me like the light weight and so forth as I don't go on a job site, so I don't get that benefit. However, the easy of dialing that bevel in is sweet. The quick change and setup and lock it and it stays there. Huge benefit as I can't stand fiddling The dual lasters are a nice add as well. Finally it's dead on every time. I have mine set up as a dedicated station with a shop vac attached on an automatic on/off switch so it fires when I turn the saw on.

Never has failed me, and the dc is off the charts. Again, not saying any others are bad as I have not owned or used the Hitachi. Looking back all the years I've had it, don't have a problem with buying it and I'd get it again. It ain't cheap, but then I've not found a cheap Festool tool.

Never had one fail on me either.

Good luck.

Agree dust collection is a huge bonus, but not sure it's worth $700. The cuts can't be anymore accurate than what I've set up with the Bosch. As I stated, cost is not a limitating factor.

[Matt Winterowd]

I previously owned a Kapex, ended up having to sell it, and have now ended up with a 12" Bosch Glide. I can honestly say that I do think that the Festool is the better tool, but it's not worth the upgrade unless you're actually unhappy with your current saw. The dust collection on the Festool is slightly better, but it is a miter saw so it still makes a mess.

The things that I do like better about the Kapex are that the handle/trigger arrangement are more comfortable for me, and I never gave a thought to blade deflection. Those two things may in fact be related to each other. However, just paying a tiny bit of attention to my cutting motion with the Bosch avoids any actual problems, so I won't be looking to buy a Kapex unless my Bosch succumbs to an untimely death. At that point, if I can afford it, I'll probably buy another Kapex.

[Tony Joyce]

I have an older C8FB Hitachi that I love. Where I was formerly employed we had the Kapex. The two main points for the Kapex was the dust collection and the the dual laser lights. Other than that my Hitachi was just as accurate and made just as smooth cuts. just my 2 cents.

Tony Joyce

Just as a side note. I worked where they were a Festool dealer and I would have/did received a substantial discount. I do own other Festool products so no bias.

[Kent Adams]

I previously owned a Kapex, ended up having to sell it, and have now ended up with a 12" Bosch Glide. I can honestly say that I do think that the Festool is the better tool, but it's not worth the upgrade unless you're actually unhappy with your current saw. The dust collection on the Festool is slightly better, but it is a miter saw so it still makes a mess.

The things that I do like better about the Kapex are that the handle/trigger arrangement are more comfortable for me, and I never gave a thought to blade deflection. Those two things may in fact be related to each other. However, just paying a tiny bit of attention to my cutting motion with the Bosch avoids any actual problems, so I won't be looking to buy a Kapex unless my Bosch succumbs to an untimely death. At that point, if I can afford it, I'll probably buy another Kapex.

Matt, I'm especially interested in your opinion. The Bosch's dust collection is not any better than a $200 miter saw in my opinion. The Kapex seems very good at dust collection, but to be honest, there aren't very many Kapex videos on Youtube for me to get a balanced opinion. Dust collection is a big consideration, though not worth $700 to me. In regards to blade deflection, would that not be more reliant on the type of blade rather than the machine? There must be some intangible that would make you choose the Kapex over the Bosch if money was not an object? This intangible is what I'm trying to quantify.

[Keith Hankins]

Agree dust collection is a huge bonus, but not sure it's worth $700. The cuts can't be anymore accurate than what I've set up with the Bosch. As I stated, cost is not a limitating factor.

I guess it comes down to "value" is truly in the eye of the beholder. When I amortize that initial cost over the years I've had it and will continue to have it, I think its worth it hands down.

If you have a festool router over say a porter cable why? Both will rout, for that matter a rigid or black n decker will get the job done.

You could have a similar argument around Lie-Nielsen vs Irwin chisels or their hand planes .vs. a wood river plane.

The list goes on and on. So at the end of the day Your call! For me, it's been worth it and I'd do it again. Can't say that for my first delta chop saw POS. But that's another conversation. Good luck and cheers!

[Patrick McCarthy]

I have Hitachi CF 10 and it has been fine for the past ten years of home remodel and weekend warrior use. I having been thinking about every a Kapex for over a year, looking for a good rationalization . . Which I now have found.

two thoughts: if you have to ask, you are looking for a reason NOT to get one. However, I am in the cry once and get on with using it camp.

another observation/assumption: the people that get them must like them , because I NEVER see them on Craigslist, etc.

[mreza Salav]

Easier adjustments for miter/bevel cuts, better dust collection, rails on the front (taking less space at the back) are the pros.
I don't think it's any better than my Milwaukee (12"). When I was building our house I worked sided by side my finish carpenter who has a Kapex and worked with it a bit and compared it to my Milwaukee. It has obviously less capacity. Many of the plastic parts in it can break (my finish carpenter had a few that were routinely broken from a kick back on miter saw). I have some Festool tools and some are just excellent value (like Domino). Their miter saw isn't (for me at least), unless you really need to have the very good dust collection.

[James Zhu]

I have Kapex, dust collection is way better than my previous 12" Ridig miter saw. However, I am not quite happy with the dust collection for the expensive price tag, Festool really should make the dust collection even better than 92% they claimed.

So I plan to do this modification http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/kapex-project/.

Other than that, no complain. You can make it a nice miter saw station with FastCap best fence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmOq0RWWRLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKEkC0hAx4c

Or buy universal Kapex bracket from Multiblade to make your own cut station.

http://multiblades.com/UniversalKapexBracket.html

[Martin Wasner]

The Kapex is a really nice miter box, but I don't think it's a $1400 saw.

If you're looking for a saw that will be permanently mounted to a bench, and you're looking to spend $1400, you'd be a fool to buy one in my opinion. $1400 will get you into an extremely nice used Derda or OMGA chop saw, and they are ten times the quality of the Kapex. But you don't want to lug around a two hundred pound mitre/chop saw. Move it once, and hopefully never again.

[peter gagliardi]

A couple thoughts on this. I have used the following makers saws- Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, Hitachi, and Ridgid, besides the Kapex. I use these in a professional, day in, day out manner for my woodworking/ contracting business. None of the saw makers saws that I listed, are as smooth running- which translates to a better cut, than the Kapex. None of them have had as accurate miter scales and stops as the Kapex. It also throws those small off cuts the least because of it. There is no real "reactionary torque" on the head/blade assembly on startup, or stop like some of the others.
None of them has as good dust collection- here is the catch though- if you want really decent dust collection, you need to use the larger diameter hose for the Festool . One fits inside the port, you want the one that fits outside- like 35 or 36 mm I think. Makes all the difference.
The scales are easy to read, and adjust to.

The Kapex does suffer more than a little though, due to its 10" blade size though. I don't care what they or anyone says about it having the same capacity of a saw with a 12" blade. If you do any amount of serious trim work and moldings, you quickly learn its limitations.
They need a 12" version!
So, I've owned them all, and the Kapex is what I'd keep if forced to choose.

[Mac Cambra]

I recently upgraded to the Kapex from a 12" Bosch SCMS. I think the quality and accuracy of the cuts on the Kapex are far superior. What I noticed on the Bosch saw was that the saw tended to deflect when cross cutting wide boards, it was hard to get a nice square cut much over 6" in width. I was using an excellent blade, Forrest Chopmaster, so that was not the most likely cause. I used that saw for years and it was a good saw as long as you knew its weaknesses.

I was specifically looking at this characteristic on the Kapex and you can tell the structure of the saw is more laterally rigid. There is a trade-off in capacity, and I can tell the saw is not as powerful as the Bosch. I haven't run into a situation yet where I miss the capacity or power. The other thing I noticed about the Kapex is it is incredibly smooth while cutting, vibration is seemingly nonexistent. The lasers and the dust collection work great. I recently did a large trim project in my house, and clean-up was minimal, in other words I am still breathing the wife didn't kill me. If I was using the Bosch, needless to say I wouldn't be here to write this, actually I would have just had to shuttle between the project and the saw outside.

The Kapex is super nice, but the price is painful... no two ways about it.

[Peter Quinn]

I used the Kapex professionally for several years and was severely under impressed. Strip away the gimmicks and tricks, the business end....the turntable and sliding mechanism....no more accurate or rigid than a host of other saws I've used, and in some cases less so. That soft start/slow start thing is for the birds, let up on the trigger just a hair and it has to go all the way to off before restart, it drives me crazy. Course some say it's a short trip for me already.....

all that dust collection/safety aperatus around the blade are great....until you trim an outside miter on the saw and then need to trim just a bit more off, and the long point of the miter gets hung up on the blade shroud every time. Yes, that's a joy I can live without. I used one to cut hundreds of small parts for a complex parquet panel, wound up bringing my makita to work, couldn't take the Kapex anymore. I remember it seemed difficult to attach auxiliary fences to it versus how easy it is on the makita. I had to cut a bunch of oak herringbone flooring on it, 5" rift and quartered......this is when you find out just how rigid it is not, because I couldn't get two cuts to come out the same to save my life. The oak wants to pull the blade off coarse on a long miter and this saw is simply not rigid enough to resist it.

There are some good features, the angle splitter built in, the rack and pinion bevel adjustment is heads above any other maker. And it's relatively quiet. I found the miter scale clogged very easily with the slighted but of saw dust in it, so you had better use a vacuum, or like most things festool it gets very cranky. Almost every guy in the shop developed the same opinion of the Kapex....over priced and over hyped, rather use something that works better and deal with the dust.

[Mac Cambra]

Funny how different people can get such different results? Must make you wonder what you could have been doing wrong?

[Wade Lippman]

I've heard mixed reports on the dust collection, care to share your perspective on these?

A wild guess is that it gets about 85%. Occasionally I forget to turn the vacuum on, and it has to blow up 6 or 7 times as much dust then as when it is turned on. Not perfect, but good.

[Wade Lippman]

Microsoft was willing to pay 35%? Now that is something I want to know more about. :confused:
8 or 9 years ago Microsoft paid you 35% for many things you bought after finding it with a Google search. I don't remember the conditions, but anything on ebay was good. When Festool found out, they forbid their dealer from putting stuff on ebay. (like it cost them anything!) They paid me like $1,500; which means I bought too many things, but I can't resist a good deal.

[Kent Adams]

A couple thoughts on this. I have used the following makers saws- Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, Hitachi, and Ridgid, besides the Kapex. I use these in a professional, day in, day out manner for my woodworking/ contracting business. None of the saw makers saws that I listed, are as smooth running- which translates to a better cut, than the Kapex. None of them have had as accurate miter scales and stops as the Kapex. It also throws those small off cuts the least because of it. There is no real "reactionary torque" on the head/blade assembly on startup, or stop like some of the others.
None of them has as good dust collection- here is the catch though- if you want really decent dust collection, you need to use the larger diameter hose for the Festool . One fits inside the port, you want the one that fits outside- like 35 or 36 mm I think. Makes all the difference.
The scales are easy to read, and adjust to.

The Kapex does suffer more than a little though, due to its 10" blade size though. I don't care what they or anyone says about it having the same capacity of a saw with a 12" blade. If you do any amount of serious trim work and moldings, you quickly learn its limitations.
They need a 12" version!
So, I've owned them all, and the Kapex is what I'd keep if forced to choose.

Thanks for your thoughts, I will take those into account. This is a very difficult decision.

[James Baker SD]

I had a 12" Bosch SCMS. Its arbor was just a few thousands undersized. The plate that tightened against the blade was also just enough off that I could not really snug down a blade. That was true for the OEM blade and 2 Forrest chopmasters I tried on it. The result was a blade that wobbled just enough to ruin the smoothness and accuracy of any cut. Result was I used the saw only for rough cutting to length long stock, rather than the picture framing I bought it for. I cannot speak for all Bosch saws (in general I have been very happy with Bosch tools), but only my particular 12" Bosch.

When additional tools made my space really tight, the space savings of the forward rail Kapex made the upgrade worthwhile to me. The cuts are far superior (maybe I just had a lemon Bosch), the compact size works for me, and the dust collection, while far from perfect, is way better than the Bosch. I plan to eventually build a dust shell around the saw (which you are not doing), but for now, I generally have a little cleanup with the shopvac after every use (unless like a previous poster I forget to turn on the vac attached to the saw--then I have a major cleanup).

If you are satisfied with the cuts of your saw, space is not an issue, I would be hard pressed to tell you to upgrade just to have a green saw. So many neat tools to spend your money on.

James

[guy knight]

i have the kapex mine is a lemon wont stay square and all i do is cut 90s no bevels or miters they have sent me the parts to fix it free of charge but it didnt fox it and when i say wont stay tuned i mean you bump it and its out or you cut up rough stock and its out
mounted in a bench and never moved
i am not knocking festool love there stuff and they will fix it if i send it in but then i need a saw for the shop use it everyday and my jobsite miter saw is to small for the shop cant be without a saw for even a day so i bit the bullet and bought the bosch CM12GD even though i have heard it can be hard to get one thats accurate got it for 599 plus 2 25 dollar gift cards took it home made a couple cuts with the stock blade it sucked put on my forrest miter master and it made s cuts in a 13" piece of plywood it had so much slope from side to side left a .015 gape on a straight edge
boxed it up and got another same thing not sure what to buy now

[Albert Lee]

Why spend $1400 on a hand operated tool when you can have a penumatic double mitre saw for $2000? well its 2nd hand but works beautifully


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsbzzzZhqo

This is what I use. safe and LOVELY to watch, capacity is 6x4, anything bigger I put it through my panel saw, much more accurate and safer than SCMS.