Track saw attraction???

[Henry Kramer]

I see an awful lot of posts about track saws. I wish that someone would explain the fascination with them because I am not seeing it. I understand that they are primarily used on ripping and cross-cutting sheets of plywood. Now muscling a sheet of plywood onto my table saw is not the most desirable task however I am not seeing that there would be less muscling a sheet using a track saw unless it is laid down on the floor on top of some 2 x 4's or on top of some styrofoam. If that the case then a person would have to crawl around on the floor and that's not much fun either. Barring cutting on the floor, the other alternative would be to muscle a sheet onto some saw horses so if one is going to do that they may as well muscle the sheet onto the table saw, rip it and be done with the process. No clamping or unclamping a straightedge, wrapping up another cord etc. And I am saying this with a son who works someplace that would allow me to buy Festool products at a significant discount (which he is always trying to get me to do). I am not trying to be a wise apple here, I really don't see the attraction and wish that someone would explain it to me.
Thanks,
Hank

[mike holden]

I have a basement shop. I can cut down sheet goods to a manageable size in the garage and take them downstairs to finish the project.

[Jim German]

For me, my shop is in the basement. Getting a full sheet of plywood down there can be a real pain ignoring even getting it on the saw. Sliding a sheet of plywood off the truck and right on to some sawhorses that are about the same height is a piece of cake. Lay the track down on top of it, and make your cuts easy peasy.

Even if my shop was in the garage, my table saw is to small to handle a full sheet of plywood. Not to mention that you've got to have enough room around the saw for the plywood. On a job site you'd almost never have a saw that was big enough for a full sheet, and most portable table saws couldn't handle a half sheet particularly well.

I've also found my track saw very helpful for ripping some hardwood that had two live edges that were pretty gnarly.

If you're a big guy and have a big shop and a big saw, sure probably isn't worth the effort. For me, its a lifesaver.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Agreed with the others. And you don't need to clamp the guide rail down, btw.

I find it far easier to move the saw over the workpiece than the other way around. Plus, cross cutting a plywood sheet down the center requires a 4' cutting capacity on the ts... that's a lot of space reserved for something I do very rarely.

And lastly, you can straight line rip solid hardwoods, which you can't do as easily on a ts.

[Marc Ward]

I agree with all the above.

[Glenn Clabo]

For me...it's simply about ease of use. I don't need a big powerful TS with a huge table so I can man handle large sheets or boards. I find it easier to straighten the edges of boards without another large tool required. So...it takes up less space...is cheaper...it's safer....it can be handled by just me...stored easy. Bottom line...it serves my purposes. In fact...its a no brainier for me.

[Erik Christensen]

hey - if ya don't see the need/value then a track saw is not for you & that's cool. For me it is the only tool that allows me to build plywood cabinet cases in any volume single-handed. Even with help, getting a 3/4" sheet of ply through a table saw is a daunting task. I have a 3/4 ply sheet that sits on 2 sawhorses with a 1" foam sheet on top as a cutting table. Back the truck up to the table, pull a sheet off, break it down to rough dimensions, label it and stack it on a cart. I can do a run of cabinets - break down 25-30 sheets - in a single day solo @ 63. Could not do that without a track saw. Want to do a taper accurately & safely in solid wood at any angle - easy with a track saw. Want to edge join 2 boards for glueup that are too long & heavy to safely use the jointer - clamp the 2 boards with the faces adjoining and run a track saw down the seam. Want to precisely cut a cabinet door to a line to get a perfect fit no matter the actual adjoining angle is - mark it and just cut to the line with a track saw. for me it is an indispensable tool - YMMV.

[Phil Thien]

I never found a table saw to be all that precise when cutting sheet goods. Managing a full sheet of something through the blade while keeping it tight to the fence, it is a challenge.

I don't have a tracksaw but I'd like one.

[Art Mann]

Cross cutting a full sheet of plywood on a table saw is not that simple. You must have a very wide rail system and a huge outfeed surface, not to mention a helper, to get an accurate cut easily. My shop is only 24 X 28 and has a lot of other stationary tools. I just don't want to permanently devote that much square footage to do crosscuts on sheet goods. Let me turn it around the other way. Why do so many people with small shops devote such a large percentage of it to cut sheet goods on a table saw when you can buy a very precise and easy to use track saw to do the same thing and then hang the track on a wall and and put the saw in a cabinet?

[Jesse Busenitz]

I think they have their place but I don't use one enough to buy one. I'll take my table saw with a good support table any day. If space was an issue I might think differently.

[Kent Adams]

I see an awful lot of posts about track saws. I wish that someone would explain the fascination with them because I am not seeing it. I understand that they are primarily used on ripping and cross-cutting sheets of plywood. Now muscling a sheet of plywood onto my table saw is not the most desirable task however I am not seeing that there would be less muscling a sheet using a track saw unless it is laid down on the floor on top of some 2 x 4's or on top of some styrofoam. If that the case then a person would have to crawl around on the floor and that's not much fun either. Barring cutting on the floor, the other alternative would be to muscle a sheet onto some saw horses so if one is going to do that they may as well muscle the sheet onto the table saw, rip it and be done with the process. No clamping or unclamping a straightedge, wrapping up another cord etc. And I am saying this with a son who works someplace that would allow me to buy Festool products at a significant discount (which he is always trying to get me to do). I am not trying to be a wise apple here, I really don't see the attraction and wish that someone would explain it to me.
Thanks,
Hank

Track saws are not only produced by Festool, but by Dewalt and Makita off the top of my head. I love my Festool track saw, but you can accomplish the same thing with the other brands as well. Unless you have a giant sliding TS, the track saw is the easiest and most accurate way to break down sheet goods. If you don't have a very large sliding TS, the track saw is the next best thing, IMHO. If you break down sheet goods with a TS, then you are really missing out on how easy and, in my opinion, a more accurate way to cut with a track saw. I'm sure there are other ways to break down sheet goods other than with a track saw, but a non sliding table saw is one of the worst ways in my opinion.

"Every serious woodworker needs a tracksaw". /s :):D

[johnny means]

For me the big attraction is cutting odd shaped and angled panels accurately and with ease. Also, cutting a matched panel out of the middle of a panel is very useful.

[Chris Padilla]

Pushing the tool through the wood.
Pushing the wood through the tool.

In a nutshell, this is what all ww'ers do. One is usually safer and easier than the other.

[Allan Speers]

Henry, your main question is a good one, but there is an answer.

You wonder how it's easier to lug a cutting table to the sheet goods and set it on saw horses, vs lugging the sheet goods to the table.
----------------------------

First, you only have to lug the table once. Suppose you have ten sheet of plywood in your truck, all needing to be cut?

Second, this is where the Eurekazone system really shines, and I hope this doesn't sound like a sales pitch. (I have been banned from Dino's forum for raising too many criticisms of their product, so BELIEVE ME, this isn't a sales pitch.) The Eurekazone "smart" table can be made as small as 2' X 4', with collapsable legs. After you set it up, the sacrificial supports (which never come off it even when stored or moved) pull out, extending the working surface.

It's light, it's self-contained, and you can safely / easily cut a 4X8 sheet on it. I made mine the same height as my truck bed, so I just slide the sheets out onto the table & go. Note: As much as I love Festool stuff, this is one area where IMO it is NOT the best system. (The do make the best sub- $1,000 circular saw, though.)

Another thing I love about the EZ track system is that the sacrificial supports raise the work up ~ 4", so you can get your hands underneath for various tasks, and also lay tools down on the table, under the stock.

And last, you can use any CS with the EZ system, including the one you already own. If accuracy is important I recommend the Makita's, or even the Festool TS75. (Yes, on a Eurekazone track.) For just cutting sheet goods, though, any CS will do even an old Craftsman.

There are MANY other uses for a good track system, both EZ & Festool offer ways to expand the system, including using routers on the track which is incredibly useful. - But that's a discussion for another thread.

[Jeffrey Martel]

Track saws are not only produced by Festool, but by Dewalt and Makita off the top of my head. I love my Festool track saw, but you can accomplish the same thing with the other brands as well. Unless you have a giant sliding TS, the track saw is the easiest and most accurate way to break down sheet goods. If you don't have a very large sliding TS, the track saw is the next best thing, IMHO. If you break down sheet goods with a TS, then you are really missing out on how easy and, in my opinion, a more accurate way to cut with a track saw. I'm sure there are other ways to break down sheet goods other than with a track saw, but a non sliding table saw is one of the worst ways in my opinion.

"Every serious woodworker needs a tracksaw". /s :):D

Grizzly has one now, as well, which I bought. It works well enough as it is. Could use a few modifications that I haven't gotten around to making yet.

I used it to trim the top of a fence perfectly flat a couple weeks ago. Worked great for that.

[Brett Luna]

I really like my TS but it's only a 30" contractor model, I work in my garage, and I have RA. Even if I'm working on horses, it's a heckuva lot easier to plonk a sheet on 'em and make my cuts with a track saw, rather than muscle the sheet onto, across, and off of the TS. For a quick cut on smaller pieces of sheet goods, the track saw is often more efficient to use instead of rolling the TS out.

[Mike Wilkins]

The attraction for me came after making a mess of cross-cutting a sheet of $55 Oak plywood with an underpowered 6" saw and a 2 X 4 which was likely not very straight. Soon after I got a Festool 55 track saw and all is easy-peasy.
Couple of years later a sliding table saw came into the shop, so the green machine is used only occasionally.

[Chip Byrd]

I am an active hobbyist in a small, one car garage. I like my Makita track saw because it performs several duties: in addition to cutting down sheet goods, it also substitute as a jointer.

[ian maybury]

Think if you have a long slider on panel saw, a well located materials rack and goods inwards set up and plenty of floor space that many of the advantages of the TS may not apply. I have a small shop (not enough room to place the sheets on a stand alone table or on the floor without it blocking everything else - unless outside which is weather dependent and makes a mess) but an easy transfer on to the panel saw. I've found I only use my Festool very occasionally since installing the slider.

For sure it seems to be possible to set up a track saw with accessories that turn it into a reasonably adaptable and accurate sawing centre, but that's heading for being an 'alternative' rather than an 'as well' type solution...

[Tom Ewell]

The sheet goods/cabinet aspect of these saws is pretty straight forward for those who don't have access to a large railed table saw (and strong backs).

In the remodeling/on site job world is where these saws can also shine, refitting new doors to old settled jambs often calls for less than perfectly square lines for proper reveals, scribing extension jambs for basement windows (or any deep X-jamb), trimming door bottoms for carpet without splintering and spraying dust everywhere, tapered/beveled rips, fitting cedar ply to raked soffit framing, reconfiguring old built-ins (making tall corner cabinets out of existing square cabinets... long miters required and a table saw was just impractical), plunge cuts for HVAC floor vents, fitting new stair parts over old carriages, retrofitting borders in hardwood floors..... and whatever else requiring precision, depth and dust control with the convenience of plunge and single point of cut regardless of saw angle.

Of course, all of the above can be done using other methods but a track saw sure makes it easier and usually more efficient.

[Henry Kramer]

OK, I have read some very good reasons for others (besides me ;) ) to use a track saw. I do have some questions and observations.
Kent; I am aware that others besides Festool make track saws. I just gave that example since I read so many have and rave about Festool and my son keeps trying to sell me one.
Peter; I did some searching to see how the track stays in place without clamping and see that there is some type of sticky strips to the bottom of the track. Do these strips become less "sticky" if sawdust collects on them? Do the tracks stay in place without clamping if the plywood has a slight bow to it? I do see that some manufacturers such as DeWalt make specific clamps for their tracks.

Referring to some of the other comments: The shop basement with track saw usage in the garage after unloading from the bed of a truck makes perfect sense. Since my shop is in my garage I guess I never thought of that. For others that have small table saws or no outfeed tables and/or rollers I can understand that too. At 28' x 32' feet I don't have a particularly huge garage since my machinery shares it with two cars. All of my machines are on mobile bases so I do a lot of wheeling around to get set up. Maybe I am old school or just fall into the "old dog/no new tricks" breed (I am 61), but my table saw is the backbone of my shop and I could NOT get by without it. I am thoroughly entrenched into the triangle of: My RAS to cut boards for length, Jointer for a straight edge for the T/S fence, and then the rip on the table saw. That is for boards not plywood of course.

All of that being said, I appreciate all of the comments to open my eyes to the usefulness of the track saw. I still don't see myself getting one anytime soon but my original question has certainly been answered.

Thanks all!
Hank

[Brett Luna]

I was fortunate in getting my track saw. I didn't have to prioritize or justify the funds for it. I only casually mentioned to my wife a couple of times that I would like one at some point...I wasn't dropping hints, I swear. Well, she paid attention and I was well and truly floored when I unwrapped it on Christmas morning.

[Tom Ewell]

I normally clamp the track down, just moving around the area lends itself to bumping the track and missing the mark, it'll also hold tight this way to wavy plys.
In the shop, like you, the gear I have easily replace a track saw except in one area, cross cutting panels that exceed the specs of my RAS and sliding compound, MFT with the track comes into play here.
One also gets virtually splinter free cross cuts on today's thin skinned plys, even with zero clearance setups on my other gear, it's hard to duplicate the edge of the Festool.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

On fine plywood, I would rather place the track over than run the sheet over the saw. Just less damage.
CrossCuts with zero tear out has always impressed me.

I have both the Festool and Dewalt and actually prefer the Dewalt.

[Henry Kramer]

On fine plywood, I would rather place the track over than run the sheet over the saw. Just less damage.
CrossCuts with zero tear out has always impressed me.

I have both the Festool and Dewalt and actually prefer the Dewalt.

Without pricing either of them I suspect that the DeWalt is much less expensive.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Without pricing either of them I suspect that the DeWalt is much less expensive.

definitely the superior value

[Jeffrey Martel]

I think the track saw has the advantage over a tablesaw for large pieces over say 24"x24". Think of it like Router vs. Router table. You don't run a tabletop on a router table, and you don't use a router handheld on a piece 6-12" long. Larger pieces you bring the tool to the work, smaller pieces you bring the work to the tool.

Crosscutting gets a bit dicey once you start going over that wide, and ripping depends on the length of your fence. Mine goes up to 30", so anything wider than that is more difficult on the Table saw.

[Robert Engel]

You don't need a $800 track saw all you need is a saw that tracks.

I have been using a simple guide system Penn Industries used to sell that utilizes a piece of angle aluminum.
But anything will work even the factor edge of a piece of .....plywood.

If your young and strong muscling around 3/4 ply is not big deal.

But you can also build an accessory table that sits to the left to support the sheet.

[Mike Cutler]

Henry

A simple guide system for any circular saw is easy to make. The track saws are just a refinement of them.
I guess I am in the minority because I didn't buy my TS75 for sheet goods. I bought it to rip 2x's to width for my house, and begin the process of breaking down lumber. ( Once I finish our kitchen remodel, I hope I never see another sheet of plywood. ;) )
The last two projects I did started with big slabs. One was a 16'x3', 10/4, piece of padauk. The other was/is started with 8/4, 12'x20" pieces of cherry. A track saw made it possible for me working alone to mill that material more safely.

Add Triton to the list of tracksaws. I just saw their new offering in the Infinity catalog. It sits between the DeWalt and the Festool on price.

[Mac McQuinn]

hey - if ya don't see the need/value then a track saw is not for you & that's cool. For me it is the only tool that allows me to build plywood cabinet cases in any volume single-handed. Even with help, getting a 3/4" sheet of ply through a table saw is a daunting task. I have a 3/4 ply sheet that sits on 2 sawhorses with a 1" foam sheet on top as a cutting table. Back the truck up to the table, pull a sheet off, break it down to rough dimensions, label it and stack it on a cart. I can do a run of cabinets - break down 25-30 sheets - in a single day solo @ 63. Could not do that without a track saw. Want to do a taper accurately & safely in solid wood at any angle - easy with a track saw. Want to edge join 2 boards for glueup that are too long & heavy to safely use the jointer - clamp the 2 boards with the faces adjoining and run a track saw down the seam. Want to precisely cut a cabinet door to a line to get a perfect fit no matter the actual adjoining angle is - mark it and just cut to the line with a track saw. for me it is an indispensable tool - YMMV.

I couldn't agree more and this is the same method I use for cutting down ply. My truck has the notches inside of the bed where I place 2x6's to haul home any ply I purchase. These are very close to the height of my saw horses and it's just matter of sliding things around, no lifting. Once you get a routine developed, it goes very quickly and smoothly for one person, even @ 61:).
Mac

[Henry Kramer]

Henry

A simple guide system for any circular saw is easy to make. The track saws are just a refinement of them.
I guess I am in the minority because I didn't buy my TS75 for sheet goods. I bought it to rip 2x's to width for my house, and begin the process of breaking down lumber. ( Once I finish our kitchen remodel, I hope I never see another sheet of plywood. ;) )
The last two projects I did started with big slabs. One was a 16'x3', 10/4, piece of padauk. The other was/is started with 8/4, 12'x20" pieces of cherry. A track saw made it possible for me working alone to mill that material more safely.

Add Triton to the list of tracksaws. I just saw their new offering in the Infinity catalog. It sits between the DeWalt and the Festool on price.

Mike,
You found it easier to rip 2x's with a track saw than on a table saw?

[Mike Cutler]

Henry

My house was built in 1919, and all the studs,beams, joists and rafters are actual 2"x4", 6",8"and 10". When I need to do repairs I have to start with the next width in 2x and rip it too width. Much quicker with a circular saw. I've put construction grade 2x12's through a table saw and jointer and it is time consuming and messy. So, yes, I personally found it easier with a circular saw. I used to use a Milwaukee 8 1/2, worm drive, but the depth of cut on the TS 75 is deeper than the Milwaukee on an EZ rail.
My fascia boards are 2" thick hemlock that are 10" wide, and I have a porch repair to do that requires all "true"dimension lumber. The depth of cut on a TS 75 will let me do this work easily.

[Peter Quinn]

I use a track saw professionally and just recently broke down and bought one for the home shop. At work we have a CNC, a 10' slider and several cabinet saws....the track saw doesn't break down too many full sheets for square cuts, but its still a critical piece of equipment. Odd angles...big bear to set up on the busy panel saw, dead simple and quick with the track saw. It comes in really hand for a variety of "fix it" tasks, mods to cabinets where the client has changed their mind post construction, or the designer failed to accommodate some obstruction, or the cabinet maker misinterpreted the plans. Pushing whole cabinets over a TS can get interesting. Track saw much easier. Sink cutouts? I can't think of a better way, cabinet saw not much help there. I've made so many weird cuts with this thing, if it broke we would run not walk to get a replacement.

Honestly at work I'd pretty much never use the track saw to break down full sheets. You mentioned lugging sheets? If you are working with plywood you are lugging sheets, that doesn't change with any machine. But with a TS you aren't just lifting and lugging the sheets, you are pushing them past a spinning blade with a relatively short reference fence to guide you. And your other reference is a hastily cut often not straight factory edge that seems to get worse every year. You can't get square parts using a bowed and out of square reference. At work we do a quick 4 cut method to square up each sheet on the slider, gets rid off all the messy factory edges, results in very accurate parts. In the home shop...no slider, but with a long rail I have dead straight and square cuts from the track saw, I do a sort of hybrid approach where initial cuts are made with the track saw, cabinet saw does the final dimensioning as its very quick and repeatable, and I'm not interested in using an MFT table.

For solids, its pretty much never used in my shop except on counter top cross cuts, don't care how good your TS is, dragging a 10' solid counter top over it to cut to length is not easy if even possible. For installs its a huge help when scribes are long subtle tapers, much easier to cut straight with the track saw than a jig saw or belt sander.

[Cary Falk]

I didn't read all of the responses. I use mine for straight line ripping on rough lumber, cutting plywood, cutting odd angles that would take some time to set up otherwise(works great for quick tapers, plunge cutting, etc. I don't think it is a replacement for a table saw but it has it's place. If you feel you don't need or want one that is ok. I don't need or want a domino. I don't know if anybody else mentioned it but you don't have to clamp it down. The tracks have rubber strips that hold it in place. All you have to do is mark a line and lay the rubber strip on the line and ou are ready to cut.

[Jim Andrew]

I spent years as the cut man building houses. Back then I would have loved a track saw. Saw the guys on "this old house" using a track saw to cut a door to fit a threshold. I did that for years free hand. For my shop, not so much. I can handle a full sheet on my table saw, and crosscuts on a slider are so easy.

[Henry Kramer]

Henry

My house was built in 1919, and all the studs,beams, joists and rafters are actual 2"x4", 6",8"and 10". When I need to do repairs I have to start with the next width in 2x and rip it too width. Much quicker with a circular saw. I've put construction grade 2x12's through a table saw and jointer and it is time consuming and messy. So, yes, I personally found it easier with a circular saw. I used to use a Milwaukee 8 1/2, worm drive, but the depth of cut on the TS 75 is deeper than the Milwaukee on an EZ rail.
My fascia boards are 2" thick hemlock that are 10" wide, and I have a porch repair to do that requires all "true"dimension lumber. The depth of cut on a TS 75 will let me do this work easily.

Mike,
I knew the purpose of you ripping was the actual full inch measurement and not the current nominal size. And I guess my ignorance of track saws is showing through again because it's hard for me to imagine ripping a 2x in a table saw as being time consuming. 30 seconds would seem about normal to me for an 8' 2x and even at what I would consider a long time of One minute it still doesn't seem that time consuming. I have a hard time envisioning marking a 2x, laying the track on the piece of wood, ripping with either your Milwaukee worm drive or the TS 75, and all of that being faster than setting the fence on the table saw and ripping away.
Just when I thought that I had the track saw thing figured out, I find myself puzzled again.
Hank

[Matthew Hills]

My festool TS55 is a really nice tool for straight cuts in sheet goods.
Better than tablesaw for large sheets, non-90 cuts, and even stopped cuts (need hand saw to trim out corner).
Excellent cut quality.

Wouldn't try to make it replace my table saw, although occasionally I read about some who do (try)...

Matt

[Mark Gibney]

One important thing cutting sheet goods with a track saw is that the sheet has to be on a flat surface. I ripped sheets to edge-join on a table with an 1/8" dip, and ended up with a fat 1/16" gap.

I couldn't work out what was happening, so the dealer explained it to me, and next time it came out fine. He said he had a contractor's guys ruin several sheet of exotic wood ply by putting them down on 2 x 4s to cut. So be aware.

[Allan Speers]

One important thing cutting sheet goods with a track saw is that the sheet has to be on a flat surface. I ripped sheets to edge-join on a table with an 1/8" dip, and ended up with a fat 1/16" gap.

I couldn't work out what was happening, so the dealer explained it to me, and next time it came out fine. He said he had a contractor's guys ruin several sheet of exotic wood ply by putting them down on 2 x 4s to cut. So be aware.


Another reason why I prefer the Eurekazone system. The track is thick, and fairly stiff, and you clamp it at both ends. So, it helps flatten slightly warped sheets, esp 1/4" ply.

[Henry Kramer]

One important thing cutting sheet goods with a track saw is that the sheet has to be on a flat surface. I ripped sheets to edge-join on a table with an 1/8" dip, and ended up with a fat 1/16" gap.

I couldn't work out what was happening, so the dealer explained it to me, and next time it came out fine. He said he had a contractor's guys ruin several sheet of exotic wood ply by putting them down on 2 x 4s to cut. So be aware.

That makes sense to me Mark, and I asked about this in post #9.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike,
I knew the purpose of you ripping was the actual full inch measurement and not the current nominal size. And I guess my ignorance of track saws is showing through again because it's hard for me to imagine ripping a 2x in a table saw as being time consuming. 30 seconds would seem about normal to me for an 8' 2x and even at what I would consider a long time of One minute it still doesn't seem that time consuming. I have a hard time envisioning marking a 2x, laying the track on the piece of wood, ripping with either your Milwaukee worm drive or the TS 75, and all of that being faster than setting the fence on the table saw and ripping away.
Just when I thought that I had the track saw thing figured out, I find myself puzzled again.
Hank

Not sure how older houses were/are built in the Chicago area, but in New England, it seems like they just "winged it" on house construction. Maybe there were codes in 1919, but man it sure doesn't seem that way.

When I said I had to rip to width, I guess I should have clarified that at the same time I was/am straightening and truing walls. One stud may have been a nominal 4" at the top and 3 7/8", the next something different, at the bottom or the reverse. One of the walls I corrected was 7/8" out of plumb over 8', so each of those ""scabs"were a taper cut. I'm using the term "sister" incorrectly here, but when I had to level the floor joists. Each "sister" was a tapered 2x10, and as I got farther from the corner, the dimensions changed. The floor bowed along and across the joists, so each joist was slightly different.

If you can buy 2x material that you can put straight through a table saw, without jointing one edge, god bless you, and please tell me where you get it. I'm happy if I can get at least flat around here. They all seem to bow in one direction or another. I can't put them through the saw without jointing first, and the knots are destructive on jointer blades. My saw is in a small section of the garage also, so that would mean continuous trips back and forth. With a track saw you just make two marks, one at each end, and set the guide to the marks at each end. It's pretty quick, once you're set up to do it.

When I used to worked in a boat yard we made our own reference edges for ripping to fit. It's easy, a sheet of low grade cabinet ply ,and some aluminum "L" stock, and can make a pretty darn good circular saw guide. Kinda heavy though.

I don't think a track saw can completely replace a table saw, at least not for me. Those times I've made cabinets, I've just "roughed" the ply panels with the track saw and then everything went to the table saw. I know I'm missing out on one of the key point feature of the system, but that comes at a pretty significant cost, and the table saw is already paid for.

The only reason I bought the Festool TS 75 was because my Milwaukee 8 1/2", being used with a set of EZ Rails, didn't have enough depth of cut. I was going to just buy a bigger circular saw and make a base plate for it to use with my EZ rails, but a 14" circular saw is a pretty expensive little item, and not really that much less than a track saw system. A 10" circular saw on a set of EZ rails has less depth of cut than a TS 75, and I wanted depth of cut as a the priority. I seem to find myself in some odd, meaning heavy, and big, situations.

I don't think you have any ignorance of track saws. There really isn't a whole lot to the concept, I think you just haven't found a legitimate use for one. If you don't have one, a use, then you really don't need one. Someday you might, and you'll be able to buy one then. As more manufacturers make them,the cost will come down across the board on all of them, and you'll probably spend smarter money than I did. ;)

[Glenn Clabo]

I understand your confusion Hank. Way back in the old days...yes I'm old to...we made our own straight edge with 2 layers of hardboard. I learned to use it when renovating old houses (like Mike) in New England where the structure was almost always interesting to say the least. These new fangle tools take it one step up by being more accurate. A table saw had no chance to do it.
A track with circular saw simply makes it real easy to make one side flat, odd width, or parallel sides on a crowned board without the need for a jointer or hand plane and then a table saw. Add the breakdown of sheet goods and to even add more confusion...a router attachment...and for me it's a great tool.

[Jim Andrew]

Have to say wow, to cutting wedge shaped pieces to straighten up an old house. Guess they had sloppy framers back 100 years ago. And you also have a point, when manufacturers all compete to make a tool, better than the others, you get good tools at good prices. Problem is, when they compete to make it cheap, the quality is drained out.

[Frank Ashmore]

Im lucky to a shop big enough for a table saw with a sliding table that can crosscut 60" miters and to break down sheet goods I use a stock feeder ,goes real fast with good in feed and out feed tables. Track saw would be a hindrance to me .I roll sheet goods in on a cart from my truck to the storage rack then on 2 wheeled roller to the in feed table lift 1 end and lever it up on to the in feed and on through the stock feeder and table saw ,never lifting the entire weight myself. Can cut a full sheet into 4 pieces in about 2 min.

[Keith Hankins]

As someone that's had the festool for a long time, they are great. If you can get them at a discount it's an easy decision. I don't use a lot of ply, but when I cut my cherry sheets down it's fantastic. My boy's are grown and gone, so I don't have spare hands any more. So now it's just me and my gorilla gripper to move the ply. I've cut it every way you can think of. I hossed it up on a TS, I've put it on saw horses and clamped a strait edge figuring how far to put it away from my true cut line for my 7 1/4" saw with a forrest blade to hit my line.

When I got the track saw it became easy. I use a heavy duty 2" piece of styrofoam on the floor, and I move the sheet with the gorilla gripper, and plop it on top. The track has a surface on the bottom that allows it just stay there. Plus where the track ends on the line thats whre the cut is. Another big advantace is the dust collection integration. I have a festool CT33e dust extractor. You cut and no dust.

I also have the MFT/3 which is the table with a track built in. I use that all the time as well.

Yea, festool is expensive, but you only feel the pain once, they last forever and they stand behind their power tools.

[Mike Cutler]

Have to say wow, to cutting wedge shaped pieces to straighten up an old house. Guess they had sloppy framers back 100 years ago. And you also have a point, when manufacturers all compete to make a tool, better than the others, you get good tools at good prices. Problem is, when they compete to make it cheap, the quality is drained out.

Jim

I don't think they were sloppy framers, the houses have just settled over decades, and centuries. Many on dry stacked stone foundations. They used the materials at hand for construction, depending on the era. Just don't ever assume that the studs, and joists, are 16" on center in an old New England house.
I've seen houses with solid teak sub flooring and rough cut mahogany, beech, oak, maple, joists. No-one knew they were there because of the decades and centuries of use and mod's done during that time. When someone finally goes "all in" on a renovation, you find this stuff. It's pretty cool actually. It's also a "pita", but it's still cool. The knob and tube wiring, and gas piping throughout, for interior lamps is also really cool when you find it untouched, some of it is still in service too.:eek:

[ken masoumi]

There has been a few occasions when I wished I had a track saw, one occasion that really stands out was when I was trying to cut a very heavy slab of live edge Ash about 2.5" thick , into 4" strips(4"x 2.5"x 72"). I did the whole operation on my workbench with a circular saw and a shopmade track, just imagine how easier it would have been with a track saw.

[Warren Wilson]

I am surprised no one has mentioned cut quality yet. That is one of the reasons I quite like using my deWalt track saw: much nicer cut than my table saw. The offcut side might "fray" the tiniest bit (hard to really call it tear-out), but I can't get those lovely, sharp clean edges on the good side from my contractor-grade table saw (even with a good blade an 0-clearance throat plate). I understand the Festool does not even produce the fraying on the offcut side.

Plus all the reasons cited above. A custom cabinet maker / installer friend of mine swears by his because it is so much easier to st up and use on site (then put away in his tool trailer) than a table saw.

[Tom Ewell]

Jim

I don't think they were sloppy framers, the houses have just settled over decades, and centuries. Many on dry stacked stone foundations. They used the materials at hand for construction, depending on the era. Just don't ever assume that the studs, and joists, are 16" on center in an old New England house.
I've seen houses with solid teak sub flooring and rough cut mahogany, beech, oak, maple, joists. No-one knew they were there because of the decades and centuries of use and mod's done during that time. When someone finally goes "all in" on a renovation, you find this stuff. It's pretty cool actually. It's also a "pita", but it's still cool. The knob and tube wiring, and gas piping throughout, for interior lamps is also really cool when you find it untouched, some of it is still in service too.:eek:

Exactly, I've seen a few engineering oddities by today's standards but considering that these houses have stood for as long as they have is a testament to the skills of these guys.
In my area they used to setup the mills, cut down the standing area of trees and went at it, all full sized rough stuff, two and three story balloon framing from foundation to top plates, lath and plaster walls filled occasionally with whatever was around to keep drafts down. Worked on one staircase where the balusters were dovetailed into the treads, hand cut of course. Can't even imagine this type of work being done today in the average house.

[Art Mann]

I am surprised no one has mentioned cut quality yet. That is one of the reasons I quite like using my deWalt track saw: much nicer cut than my table saw. The offcut side might "fray" the tiniest bit (hard to really call it tear-out), but I can't get those lovely, sharp clean edges on the good side from my contractor-grade table saw (even with a good blade an 0-clearance throat plate). I understand the Festool does not even produce the fraying on the offcut side.

Plus all the reasons cited above. A custom cabinet maker / installer friend of mine swears by his because it is so much easier to st up and use on site (then put away in his tool trailer) than a table saw.

I have both. Let me assure you that a good table saw with the right blade will cut as cleanly and precisely as a track saw.

[Cody Colston]

I have both. Let me assure you that a good table saw with the right blade will cut as cleanly and precisely as a track saw.

Agree. I don't understand the cut-quality claim at all. I can get glue-line rip cuts on my TS so how could a track saw improve on that result?

Anyway, this entire discussion is rather moot. People will (and should) use whatever tool they are most comfortable using. For me, a track saw will never come close to replacing my TS. For others, that may not be the case. Either way, the only person we have to satisfy is our self (and possibly LOML). :D

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I've also found my track saw very helpful for ripping some hardwood that had two live edges that were pretty gnarly.

I do not have a jointer. If I want a long straight edge on an edge, I can drop my 110" track onto the board and rip a straight line. Then, when I drop it into my table saw I can rip a line parallel to it. I also tear down large sheet goods.

I have glued up a few panels where I do not have a smooth edge because the boards are different lengths. I can use the track saw to establish a straight edge.

[Glenn Clabo]

Agree. I don't understand the cut-quality claim at all. I can get glue-line rip cuts on my TS so how could a track saw improve on that result?

Anyway, this entire discussion is rather moot. People will (and should) use whatever tool they are most comfortable using. For me, a track saw will never come close to replacing my TS. For others, that may not be the case. Either way, the only person we have to satisfy is our self (and possibly LOML). :D

Hey there Cody...
It sure is true...a TS can cut extremely smooth...but on a TS you have to start with a straight side or use a jig. With a track you can make that straight edge. Not a big deal if you have a jointer...or handwork it.

Most of us aren't trying to convince anyone to through away their TS...just trying to answer the question. I for one have found that I can use a much smaller/cheaper TS which does help with your last comment. ;)

[Henry Kramer]

When I said I had to rip to width, I guess I should have clarified that at the same time I was/am straightening and truing walls. One stud may have been a nominal 4" at the top and 3 7/8", the next something different, at the bottom or the reverse. One of the walls I corrected was 7/8" out of plumb over 8', so each of those ""scabs"were a taper cut. I'm using the term "sister" incorrectly here, but when I had to level the floor joists. Each "sister" was a tapered 2x10, and as I got farther from the corner, the dimensions changed. The floor bowed along and across the joists, so each joist was slightly different.

Mike, now THAT sounds like a good use for a track saw over a table saw. Something tapered and not parallel or repetitive.
Hank

[Henry Kramer]

As someone that's had the festool for a long time, they are great. If you can get them at a discount it's an easy decision. I don't use a lot of ply, but when I cut my cherry sheets down it's fantastic. My boy's are grown and gone, so I don't have spare hands any more. So now it's just me and my gorilla gripper to move the ply. I've cut it every way you can think of. I hossed it up on a TS, I've put it on saw horses and clamped a strait edge figuring how far to put it away from my true cut line for my 7 1/4" saw with a forrest blade to hit my line.

When I got the track saw it became easy. I use a heavy duty 2" piece of styrofoam on the floor, and I move the sheet with the gorilla gripper, and plop it on top. The track has a surface on the bottom that allows it just stay there. Plus where the track ends on the line thats whre the cut is. Another big advantace is the dust collection integration. I have a festool CT33e dust extractor. You cut and no dust.

I also have the MFT/3 which is the table with a track built in. I use that all the time as well.

Yea, festool is expensive, but you only feel the pain once, they last forever and they stand behind their power tools.
Keith,
This all sounds good to me (especially the dust collection) except the crawling around on the floor. I appoligize if this sounds rude, it is not meant to be, but I built too many benches and mounted too many machines on mobile bases to be crawling around on the cold concrete to make my cuts. I have this picture in my mind of me on the floor and someone looking in at me in my workshop, or my dad looking down at me from up high wondering what all of the stuff is for if I work off of the floor.

By the way, my boys are grown now too. When I finally realized that, I built an outfeed table.
Hank

[Von Bickley]

I have never seen a tool I didn't like. I do not need nor can I justify getting a track shop for a DIY shop. I break down a sheet of plywood on a set of sawhorses with a Makita circular saw, and then run them thru my table saw. Works for me........

[Tom Stenzel]

I never found a table saw to be all that precise when cutting sheet goods. Managing a full sheet of something through the blade while keeping it tight to the fence, it is a challenge.

I don't have a tracksaw but I'd like one.

I'm in Phil's camp on this.

When it comes to wrestling around large sheets of wood moving the saw is easier. My table saw is small so I use a circular saw with a homemade zero clearance bottom and a guide with clamps. It works but not as well as a real track saw. For the amount of use it would get I can't justify the expense of a track saw but would get one if I could.

-Tom

[ian maybury]

That in words of one syllable is probably the primary functional reason why sliding table saws exist...

[Brian Holcombe]

Keith,
This all sounds good to me (especially the dust collection) except the crawling around on the floor. I appoligize if this sounds rude, it is not meant to be, but I built too many benches and mounted too many machines on mobile bases to be crawling around on the cold concrete to make my cuts. I have this picture in my mind of me on the floor and someone looking in at me in my workshop, or my dad looking down at me from up high wondering what all of the stuff is for if I work off of the floor.

By the way, my boys are grown now too. When I finally realized that, I built an outfeed table.
Hank

Put the sacrifice material on a bench.

[Glenn Clabo]

Hank...I use my benches...after all I am older than you. :p

[Keith Hankins]

Keith,
This all sounds good to me (especially the dust collection) except the crawling around on the floor. I appoligize if this sounds rude, it is not meant to be, but I built too many benches and mounted too many machines on mobile bases to be crawling around on the cold concrete to make my cuts. I have this picture in my mind of me on the floor and someone looking in at me in my workshop, or my dad looking down at me from up high wondering what all of the stuff is for if I work off of the floor.

By the way, my boys are grown now too. When I finally realized that, I built an outfeed table.
Hank

Not rude, you could do a torsion box for use as well seen a lot. However, I prefer not to heft it up on a table thats a whole lot harder on me then jut ploping it down and running a saw through it and picking up just a piece.

To each his own. Go to youtube and search on torsion box for TS55 and you will see some pretty darn good ones, if you really want to hoist that whole sheet up on something. you could also go over to the FOG and search lots of solutions there.

https://youtu.be/p4VTxEGyU0Y

cheers.

[guy knight]

i use mine to square the ends of a full sheet and on the jobsite to install cabinets

[Jim Dwight]

I guess somebody mentioned dust collection but I will say it again. Dust collection on track saws is quite good and requires only a shop vacuum. DC on a table can be good but it needs overhead as well as below the blade pickups and a good sized DC.

I think safety was also mentioned in passage but deserves reinforcement. It would be difficult to cut yourself with a track saw (I may find a way but so far so good). Table saws can be used safely, so far so good for me there too, but you have to be pretty careful since the nature of the operation has you putting your hands at least somewhere near the blade.

I think the key attraction, the ability to just EXACTLY where you want, for sure, every time, is the key thing. You can use parallel guides for multiple cuts and save some time. If you have a MFT or, even better I think, a Ron Paulk style workbench you can cut to stops for crosscuts too. Even in the usage you see more (marking and cutting) I find myself finding more accurate ways to mark where I want to cut because the saw is going to cut where I place the track.

For those thinking supporting the wood is an issue that seems contrived to me. I have a lattice work of 1x4s that I used to use over my table saw and workbench but now put over saw horses. I also throw it over the trailer that brings sheet goods home sometimes. Others use knock down supports. There is a guy who did some good youtubes that uses a lattice like mine with legs on it that fold down. You need to spend a few minutes coming up with something but it will be easy for anybody on this forum to do if they want to. I never cut on the floor. I've used my track saw to cut down subfloor. In that case, I stacked it on sawhorses and let the blade nick the sheet below (actually I used one of the sheets under all the cuts). My point is it just isn't difficult.

If you have a large shop with a slider and ways to handle sheet goods I agree you can get along fine for that without one. But you still could use one for when you aren't in the shop and for angles and cutting finished cabinets, and doors, and a thousand other things. Any tool that will cut this well has a place - if you want to give it one.

If you have a small shop like mine and work by yourself like I do. I think a combination of a smaller table saw (24-30 inch rip) and a track saw will serve you better than a large table saw with 60 inch ripping capacity. You need less space when you do not move the sheet goods and it is easier to cut things up accurately when you aren't fighting your shop for space. I've done both and I think it's a no-brainer. The track saw is the clear winner.

For those that think a home made guide is equivalent I will say I've done that too and I am confident it is not the case. You can cut to rough size easily with a home made guide. I did for decades. But cutting to finished size is a struggle. Circular saws do not have the bearings that track saws have. They just don't cut as well regardless of blade. At least my Milwaukee doesn't. And home made guides to not trap the base of the saw to force it to follow the line.

[Martin Wasner]

I see the appeal for hobbyist for sure. They are relatively cheap and they don't take up much space. I'd like to get one, but I honestly can't think of anything that I'd actually use it for. To be fair, I thought the Fein Multi tool was a joke until I bought one. I have a feeling I'll have a similar experience to the track saws.
I break down sheets in a Striebig vertical panel saw, so I'm the ultimate in lazy when it comes to manual sheet cutting. Come to think of it, the Striebig is just a big track saw.

[Henry Kramer]

OK, since I started this thread I feel obligated to comment. I have spent a good part of the weekend doing Google searches and watching youTubes on track saws. I admit that they DO have their place and I may even get one, some day. I can see that they may help straighten out a twisted board although I am still unsure how well the "sticky strips" work when laid on rough cut lumber.

It seems to me that there may be a trend of going with smaller table saws. I searched for some time before I found my PM66 and as I said earlier it's the backbone of my shop and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I do have some pretty good dust collection with my table saw both below and above the blade but I must admit that I doubt that it is as good as the track saw. I'm still not sure that I like having both a cord and a vacuum hose getting in my way when I am ripping but I suppose one gets used to it after a while. There may also be a trend to do without jointers. Maybe it's a space issue or maybe the track saws cut so darn smooth that people feel it's not needed. I won't be getting rid of my jointer either. I admit to being old school. I still use a RAS and many don't see the use for them anymore but it's an old DeWalt and it cuts very accurately. It's what I use to cut my boards to length.

I like some some of the creative torsion boxes that I have seen. Some are really space saving but take a while to assemble and disassemble.

I do do appreciate all of the feedback and I certainly got my question answered.
Hank

[Mike Cutler]

Henry

I wouldn't, and don't, rely on the strips on rough cut lumber. The strips work on surface tension for adhesion. The smoother the surface, and cleaner the strips, the better the adhesion. Rough cut, at least what I get, isn't smooth enough, so I use the clamps.

The cord and hose don't get in the way, but the guide rail end piece Festool sells to mitigate this is only so-so. It has too sharp a leading edge and the cord, and hose, can get a little "grabby" on that edge. I've seen some home made adapters that are a little smoother. I have the cord and hose coming down from the ceiling.

I don't see a track saw taking the place of a Jointer. They're good, but not that good.

[Dale Murray]

Henry
I don't see a track saw taking the place of a Jointer. They're good, but not that good.

I have not read this entire thread and I am really quite impressed with Makita tracksaw, one of the tools I totally proselytize to any who will listen. Not Makita specifically, but track saws in general, though I am quite pleased with the Makita.

I cannot attest to the jointer claim but I can say it would be a brilliant way to get one straight edge on a board, prepping it for a couple passes though the table saw to finalize both edges. I am upset I did not come up with this first, however, I am quite please as I have about 40 linear feet of 8/4 hard maple to true up and was not looking forward to pushing my LN #8 through all that wood.

[Mike Cutler]

Dale

I was talking about the Jointer as a whole machine. I use mine the way you do. Rip a reference edge in the rough stock and then size to width on a TS.

I know a few years back on the John Lucas website, he had a tutorial on how to get a glue ready rip on two boards simultaneously with a track saw. I don't know what happened to John's stuff, he passed a few years back, but if it's still around, it was a pretty good article.

[Henry Kramer]

OK guys, I did it. I don't know if anyone is still following this topic but FYI, I ordered a Festool TS 55 REQ and a CT 26 Dust Extractor today. Partly out of curiosity, but mostly because several of you gave some pretty darn good uses and applications for a track saw that I am sure that I can apply. Evidently I could have purchased the TS 55 EQ a little cheaper because of the newer REQ model just coming out. I am not sure of the differences between the two, if any. I should receive everything in a few days. I will keep you all posted.
Thanks,
Hank

[Peter Aeschliman]

OK guys, I did it. I don't know if anyone is still following this topic but FYI, I ordered a Festool TS 55 REQ and a CT 26 Dust Extractor today. Partly out of curiosity, but mostly because several of you gave some pretty darn good uses and applications for a track saw that I am sure that I can apply. Evidently I could have purchased the TS 55 EQ a little cheaper because of the newer REQ model just coming out. I am not sure of the differences between the two, if any. I should receive everything in a few days. I will keep you all posted.
Thanks,
Hank

Wow, what a turn around! You'll like it!

As for the jointer thing... I will keep my jointer, but it does save time when you use it to straight-line rip. Less material to have to remove while edge jointing. But I do that after I face joint and face plane, so that the track saw cut is close to square.

It's a great tool. Not necessary, but very convenient in my opinion.

[Allan Speers]

.......... I have spent a good part of the weekend doing Google searches and watching youTubes on track saws. I admit that they DO have their place and I may even get one, some day. I can see that they may help straighten out a twisted board although I am still unsure how well the "sticky strips" work when laid on rough cut lumber.

..........I admit to being old school. I still use a RAS and many don't see the use for them anymore but it's an old DeWalt and it cuts very accurately. It's what I use to cut my boards to length.....


You got me thinking, Hank. What's interesting is that a tracksaw is kind of like a RAS except you can move it around. In fact, the Eurekazone EZ-ONE table, with it's trapezoid bridge, gives almost exactly the c-cut function of an RAS, except the blade can travel over 48".

The downside is being limited by the power & precision of a CS. I'm actually considering mounting a 14" RAS onto my EZ track, somehow. (without the RAS's sliding rail.) But if I can somehow pull that off, would I have the world's best EZ-ONE setup, or a 48" RAS? I guess the former, since I could still use my plunge router on the rail as well, but it makes you think.

I think there's a whole new hybrid tool, waiting to be invented.

[David Ragan]

You don't need a $800 track saw all you need is a saw that tracks.

I have been using a simple guide system Penn Industries used to sell that utilizes a piece of angle aluminum.
But anything will work even the factor edge of a piece of .....plywood.

If your young and strong muscling around 3/4 ply is not big deal.

But you can also build an accessory table that sits to the left to support the sheet.

I'm going to look into this. How about one of those aluminum 8' studs from BORG?

[Henry Kramer]

You got me thinking, Hank. What's interesting is that a tracksaw is kind of like a RAS except you can move it around. In fact, the Eurekazone EZ-ONE table, with it's trapezoid bridge, gives almost exactly the c-cut function of an RAS, except the blade can travel over 48".

The downside is being limited by the power & precision of a CS. I'm actually considering mounting a 14" RAS onto my EZ track, somehow. (without the RAS's sliding rail.) But if I can somehow pull that off, would I have the world's best EZ-ONE setup, or a 48" RAS? I guess the former, since I could still use my plunge router on the rail as well, but it makes you think.

I think there's a whole new hybrid tool, waiting to be invented.

Interesting, it might work. I think that I will stick with my 1956 DeWalt MBF for cutting boards to length. I have the RAS mounted on my long wall in the garage with benches on either side so I can simply plop a 16' board up there, measure, cut and I done. I dont see myself dragging out a track for that. However, prior to a few days ago I didnt even see myself with a track saw so I suppose anything is possible. I'm certain that I will get good use out of the CT 26 though, and will probably pick up a ROS sometime too. My son demonstrates them inside in showrooms on straight drywall compound and its appears completely dustless.

[Jim Dwight]

Hank,

It sounds like at least one wall of our shops is similar. I have a RAS (an old Ryobi (not as old as your DeWalt)) and a 12 inch CMS (non-slider) on a bench along the long wall with hardwood boards stored above them on pieces of conduit in holes in the 2x4s of the wall. So I can lift a board down and cut to length. I'm not done with this or much of anything else in this shop but ultimately both the CMS and RAS will use stops. I will not use the track saw for crosscuts within the CMS's 8 inch capacity or the RAS's 12-13 inch capacity. More than they are capable of, however, is a good use of the track saw. An upcoming project will be a 3x7 foot bench with a Ron Paulk style top and his crosscut setup. It will roll on wheels and have tool storage underneath (not be portable like Paulk's designs). Once that is finished, I could do narrower crosscuts on it - also using a stop - but probably won't since the other tools are sitting there and work fine.

Jim

[Ole Anderson]

To cut 4'x8' sheets of ply easily on a TS requires that the TS have a massive out feed table. Not everyone has room for that. My main fascination with track saws is that you lay the edge of the guide right on the cut line, no offset as is needed as with using a circ saw and straightedge. Also you can cut angles easily on large sheet goods, or even in place on already built things. Just the other day I used it to trim cut 3/4" oak flooring along a wall to fit some base. I originally bought mine to break down 8 sheets of 3/4" Hickory ply for my kitchen cabs.

Mine is a Grizzly that you can get with two sections of track and the clamps for around $320. https://www.grizzly.com/products/Track-Saw-Master-Pack/T25552

I did make a shoe to help with dust collection. I use mine with a shop vac and small hose. Adding an automatic vac relay was really worth it, it gets used on other tools as well. http://www.amazon.com/DGC-PRODUCTS-IS110M-i-Socket-Autoswitch/dp/B005ELWUWG

[Mike Cutler]

OK guys, I did it. I don't know if anyone is still following this topic but FYI, I ordered a Festool TS 55 REQ and a CT 26 Dust Extractor today. Partly out of curiosity, but mostly because several of you gave some pretty darn good uses and applications for a track saw that I am sure that I can apply. Evidently I could have purchased the TS 55 EQ a little cheaper because of the newer REQ model just coming out. I am not sure of the differences between the two, if any. I should receive everything in a few days. I will keep you all posted.
Thanks,
Hank

Henry

I guess when you go, you go all in.;)
I think you're going to like it, I know you'll like their vacuum for many other duties than just being hooked up to their saw. I don't have a Festool vac, as I already had a Fein when I bought my TS-75. But they're very nice.

[Henry Kramer]

Well I received my Festool TS55/CT26 package last night. I had a few other projects to wrap up before I had a chance to try out the new stuff.

First impressions: The first hurdle I needed to get over was the Metric Scale :mad: indicating the blade depth. The saw did come with an overlay sticker with a U.S. measurement but it sure appeared cheap looking for such an expensive tool. I didn't put the sticker on because it reminds me of something that would be seen on a second rate Asian machine. Overall, the saw looks nice. A fair amount of plastic but that's not uncommon. I would say that it does not look as durable or hefty as a Skil Model 77 worm drive but it's also nowhere near as heavy.

I had some laminated spruce boards that I ripped first. The saw was hooked up to the CT26 vacuum/dust extractor. I have to say that I was not impressed with the ability of the dust extractor to keep the sawdust down. Was the sawdust less than using a Skil saw and a straightedge? Most certainly, however I expected close to no sawdust after all of the raving about track saws. I went back to the instruction booklet to see if I did something wrong and I didn't see anything.
In my opinion my table saw with the dust collector hooked up under the blade at the base of the saw and at the Shark Guard above the blade would have created less sawdust. It also would have been much easier to set the fence and rip the board on my table saw, of course I would have had to run the board through the jointer first to get a clean edge for ripping. That would have added another step but probably less than a minute time wise. I was impressed with the ability of the track to stay in place on the board without moving however the board was smooth and I suspect that ripping a rough cut board would have required clamping.

It's early in the testing process but so far I would score it:
Table Saw-1
Track saw-0

My next test will be to cut some plywood. I suspect that the track saw will prove handier on sheet goods.

Thank you,
Hank

[Jim Dwight]

One of the reasons I got a DeWalt is the depth scale is imperial and it indicates the depth below the track. Young people seem adjusted to metric but I am not and don't intend to change. I'm glad you have your Festool and it is working for you. I found track saw usage to be an adjustment. After decades on a table saw, I know how to use it. I'm still learning on the track saw. It isn't difficult to use but using it to make consistently accurate cuts takes different practices than other tools.

With respect to dust control, I don't have overhead dust collection on my table saw so the track saw is lower for me. But it isn't zero. Both the table saw and track saw are messier for cuts where the blade isn't buried in the wood. A neat thing about the track saw is the ability to use it indoors. I needed to rip down a door in our condo and brought the track saw and vacuum. Saved carrying it outside. It was a second story door and solid so that wouldn't have been quick or easy. Dust was not visible when I was done. I don't know of another way to do this as easily.

I like my parallel guides for cutting up sheet goods. I had to make mine but there are several brands for the Festool. I think the "Precision Dogs" option looks good for the money but there are Festool and Seneca and others. The big advantage is if you need to make multiple cuts to the same dimension. With the guides you set a stop and can cut to the exact same dimension repeatedly.

[Henry Kramer]

One of the reasons I got a DeWalt is the depth scale is imperial and it indicates the depth below the track. Young people seem adjusted to metric but I am not and don't intend to change. I'm glad you have your Festool and it is working for you. I found track saw usage to be an adjustment. After decades on a table saw, I know how to use it. I'm still learning on the track saw. It isn't difficult to use but using it to make consistently accurate cuts takes different practices than other tools.

With respect to dust control, I don't have overhead dust collection on my table saw so the track saw is lower for me. But it isn't zero. Both the table saw and track saw are messier for cuts where the blade isn't buried in the wood. A neat thing about the track saw is the ability to use it indoors. I needed to rip down a door in our condo and brought the track saw and vacuum. Saved carrying it outside. It was a second story door and solid so that wouldn't have been quick or easy. Dust was not visible when I was done. I don't know of another way to do this as easily.

Bringing the saw to the door instead of carrying the solid door to the saw seems like a very good use for a track saw Jim.

As far as the metric vs imperial scale, I can convert the measurements easy enough but I don't want to. I've been in construction all of my life and dealt in inches, feet and fractions thereof. As far as I am concerned Festool should sell their tools in the U.S. marked in imperial scale with a crappy metric sticker instead of the other way around.

[Allan Speers]

I just orders a 10 1/4" Makita 5104, for my Eurekazone EZ-ONE table. I'm keeping the 7 1/4" Hilti for regular track use, mostly plywood cutting. Nice, as I can now keep a plywood/crosscut blade on it all the time.


It reains to be seen how accurate, and how powerful, the Makita will be when making deep cuts in hard stock. I'll report back after a bit.

[Kent Adams]

Henry, I'm 48 and just learned to use metric in the last year. Once you start to use it, you'll realize its far superior to imperial for many things and I think woodworking is one of them. I still think in imperial, but I cut to metric.

[Henry Kramer]

Henry, I'm 48 and just learned to use metric in the last year. Once you start to use it, you'll realize its far superior to imperial for many things and I think woodworking is one of them. I still think in imperial, but I cut to metric.

Kent, it's not a matter of learning to use metric measurements, and I don't deny that it's an easier system however, I have a lifetime of imperial tools that I am deeply entrenched into: hundreds and hundreds of drill bits, hundreds of router bits (1/4" and 1/2" shank), 25 maybe 30 tape measures, 15-20 folding rules, a half dozen stainless steel rulers of various lengths, too many saw blades to count most 5/8" arbor and the list goes on and on. Why would I want to go metric at this point in my life? What happens to all of my tools that are imperial measurement! What happens to all of my measuring devices? Not to mention that I am a Bricklayer/Stonemason by trade and deal in fractions of an inch constantly. I love buying tools as much if not more than the next guy but I have no plans to just chuck all of my tools and replace them with metric standard tools.

[Kent Adams]

Kent, it's not a matter of learning to use metric measurements, and I don't deny that it's an easier system however, I have a lifetime of imperial tools that I am deeply entrenched into: hundreds and hundreds of drill bits, hundreds of router bits (1/4" and 1/2" shank), 25 maybe 30 tape measures, 15-20 folding rules, a half dozen stainless steel rulers of various lengths, too many saw blades to count most 5/8" arbor and the list goes on and on. Why would I want to go metric at this point in my life? What happens to all of my tools that are imperial measurement! What happens to all of my measuring devices? Not to mention that I am a Bricklayer/Stonemason by trade and deal in fractions of an inch constantly. I love buying tools as much if not more than the next guy but I have no plans to just chuck all of my tools and replace them with metric standard tools.

You make a good point. It does make it easier if your tools are already metric. Most of mine are imperial, but I do have some in metric which makes it easier to convert. I don't see any reason for you to convert to metric if imperial is working for you. BTW, you mentioned that you were surprised, or something like that, about the lack of a more comprehensive dust collection on the track saw. Did you put on the "viewing window" part that comes with the saw? This helps with dust collection.

[Henry Kramer]

Did you put on the "viewing window" part that comes with the saw? This helps with dust collection.
Kent, is the viewing window better for dust collection than the splinter guard?

[Mike Cutler]

Well I received my Festool TS55/CT26 package last night. I had a few other projects to wrap up before I had a chance to try out the new stuff.

First impressions: The first hurdle I needed to get over was the Metric Scale :mad: indicating the blade depth. The saw did come with an overlay sticker with a U.S. measurement but it sure appeared cheap looking for such an expensive tool. I didn't put the sticker on because it reminds me of something that would be seen on a second rate Asian machine. Overall, the saw looks nice. A fair amount of plastic but that's not uncommon. I would say that it does not look as durable or hefty as a Skil Model 77 worm drive but it's also nowhere near as heavy.

I had some laminated spruce boards that I ripped first. The saw was hooked up to the CT26 vacuum/dust extractor. I have to say that I was not impressed with the ability of the dust extractor to keep the sawdust down. Was the sawdust less than using a Skil saw and a straightedge? Most certainly, however I expected close to no sawdust after all of the raving about track saws. I went back to the instruction booklet to see if I did something wrong and I didn't see anything.
In my opinion my table saw with the dust collector hooked up under the blade at the base of the saw and at the Shark Guard above the blade would have created less sawdust. It also would have been much easier to set the fence and rip the board on my table saw, of course I would have had to run the board through the jointer first to get a clean edge for ripping. That would have added another step but probably less than a minute time wise. I was impressed with the ability of the track to stay in place on the board without moving however the board was smooth and I suspect that ripping a rough cut board would have required clamping.

It's early in the testing process but so far I would score it:
Table Saw-1
Track saw-0

My next test will be to cut some plywood. I suspect that the track saw will prove handier on sheet goods.

Thank you,
Hank

Henry

You'll never get the quality of dust extraction from the circular saw that you can achieve on a table saw. It will just never happen, regardless of whomever manufactures the saw/system. It should be very minimal though, and if not, I agree, something isn't right.

I never payed much attention to the scale on the saw. Whether in Metric, or fractional, the depth of cut isn't the measurement I need. I need depth to bottom of gullet to know that the blade teeth are properly clearing the bottom of the board. For my TS75 that is a setting of 30mm for a 4/4 board. If I'm ripping an edge, or breaking down a rough cut piece of material, I set the saw on the edge of the material and push it down until the gullets are clear, then back up the depth setting from max.

You will need the clamps for unsurfaced, rough cut, lumber. My first project for my TS75, was breaking down a rough cut 2" thick padauk slab, that was 16'x3'. A very heavy piece of material.

I never knew there was a viewing window guard???:o I guess I need to check into that.

I believe that you'll find it shines on cabinet ply. You're still going to get some dust, but if you make a ZCI cutting table out of blue foam board, I believe it may be more to meeting the expectations you're looking for.

Congrat's on your saw. I think once you give it a real go, you'll appreciate it. ( It will never replace a table saw or a jointer in my book though.;) )

[Henry Kramer]

Henry,

I never payed much attention to the scale on the saw. Whether in Metric, or fractional, the depth of cut isn't the measurement I need. I need depth to bottom of gullet to know that the blade teeth are properly clearing the bottom of the board. For my TS75 that is a setting of 30mm for a 4/4 board. If I'm ripping an edge, or breaking down a rough cut piece of material, I set the saw on the edge of the material and push it down until the gullets are clear, then back up the depth setting from max.

Mike,
I use the same method for setting the depth. I rarely use any depth gauge scale on any of my tools/machinery. I feel much safer (as far as making mistakes) physically measuring. I love my Whiteside brass bars for depth adjustment on the router. It just irritated me that the metric scale is prominent, big and bold on the TS55. Maybe it shouldn't but it does.
Hank

[Tom Ewell]

While I still think in feet/inches I don't find it particularly cumbersome to use metric.
The only beef I have with metric is having to have two sets of tools to work on my cars/truck/machines. SAE and metric can both be on some of them.

When I first got my TS55-EQ(older version, scale is not as 'big and bold') an imperial sticker was not available, don't know if I'd use one now anyway... I've adapted pretty well at associating depth of cut with the numbers on the scale and the only time I double check is when I'm cutting on the MFT.
Festool blades, sandpapers, scales are all metric nomenclature, think they all drive on the wrong side of the road over there too.

[Henry Kramer]

While I still think in feet/inches I don't find it particularly cumbersome to use metric.
The only beef I have with metric is having to have two sets of tools to work on my cars/truck/machines. SAE and metric can both be on some of them.

Festool blades, sandpapers, scales are all metric nomenclature, think they all drive on the wrong side of the road over there too.

Actually Tom, they drive on the right side of the road in Germany. I have no problem at all with German tools. I prefer them over Asian tools any day of the week. I just thought that the Festool depth scale should come with an imperial measurement on the saws that they sell here, and provide the metric sticker for those that would rather display metric.

I'm with you on the metric wrenches. As cars used more and more metric nuts and bolts I had to acquire so many more tools that I needed another rolling tool box. I won't be doing that with my woodworking tools (I hope).

[Brian Holcombe]

Where the tracksaw really shines is in breaking down sheet goods or putting a rough cut on a live edge board. I dont find them to be super accurate by any means, but usually quite fine for those two scenarios.

[Jim Dwight]

Personally, I would put the imperial scale on it and try and offset it so it reads dimensions below the track. I set my table saw with wooden blocks I made for setting the fence on my Skil biscuit jointer. But I like setting the stop of the track saw without having to push it down.

I believe the DeWalt clamps for the track are more useful than the Festool. I use them sometimes even on plywood even though I don't really need to. They are one handed quick clamps. They won't exert a whole lot of force but they are plenty to hold the track in place.

[Brian Holcombe]

6mm is almost 1/4", 12mm is almost 1/2" and 19mm is almost 3/4".

I don't know how precise you need to be, but this should get you there for most sheet goods. In fact if you are using BB ply you are working in MM and dont even know it :).

[Henry Kramer]

6mm is almost 1/4", 12mm is almost 1/2" and 19mm is almost 3/4".

I don't know how precise you need to be, but this should get you there for most sheet goods. In fact if you are using BB ply you are working in MM and dont even know it :).

Call me weird, old fashioned or stubborn, but I would rather deal with 23/32" than 18.256mm on a sheet of 3/4" (nominal) plywood.
My conversion to a true 3/4" comes out to 19.0500