Just a Cuppa Joe?

[Jim Koepke]

My morning coffee is one of my favorite parts of starting the day.

Like many my choice of beans and method of making could be considered a ritual. Surely many are satisfied with a less rigorous routine or do not see the attraction of a 'premium' high priced bean.

To me, this is a bit too much:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-24/review-is-a-gorgeous-pour-over-coffee-maker-worth-500-

Is this a sign that some people have too much money? (Robin Williams, at least once said, "cocaine is God's way of saying you have too much money.")

Start with good water, good grounds and most folks couldn't tell the difference if you used a paper towel for the filter.

jtk

[Michael Weber]

I agree with "most". Sometimes wish I were one of the folks with very high taste bud density (super tasters) that are capable of perceiving very subtle flavoring in foods. Never been able to taste the chocolate or raspberry or whatever overtones of flavor coffee or wine or other gastronomical delights that exist. It's interesting to me how something as random as that can affect a persons perception of the world.
And, can someone explain how the concept of pour over coffee works? We used to make coffee by boiling water and pouring it over the grounds. How is this different?

[Larry Browning]

I agree with "most". Sometimes wish I were one of the folks with very high taste bud density (super tasters) that are capable of perceiving very subtle flavoring in foods. Never been able to taste the chocolate or raspberry or whatever overtones of flavor coffee or wine or other gastronomical delights that exist. It's interesting to me how something as random as that can affect a persons perception of the world.
And, can someone explain how the concept of pour over coffee works? We used to make coffee by boiling water and pouring it over the grounds. How is this different?
Personally, I feel I am blessed to not have that "high taste bud density" For the most part, I can't tell the difference between fancy (high dollar) coffee and Wal-Mart's house brand. This lack of taste bud sensitivity has saved me countless dollars at the grocery store.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hard to say for me, as I don't drink coffee.

It's made in the USA, which for me would be something I would pay a premium for.

I have a $150 kettle at home for tea that allows you to set it for different temperatures for different types of tea.

So maybe I would buy one of these coffee makers if I was a coffee drinker............Rod.

[Art Mann]

I am a coffee snob but one of my most favorite brands is the pure Columbian store brand beans you can buy at Sam's Club. It comes in big bags and costs less per pound than standard brand coffees at the grocery store. My favorite brewing method is using a french press I bought for under $30 at a department store going-out-of-business sale. Higher cost doesn't always mean better taste.

[Phil Thien]

It looks like they have a couple of kinks to work out. I do think it looks pretty neat, the condensation problem is unfortunate, they should have fixed it before the release.

I'm not a coffee connoisseur, so it would be lost on me.

The son of a friend is a research psychologist that has worked for big food and says double blind tests indicate that most coffee aficionados are actually fairly clueless and are simply selecting based on price and exclusivity. It has been a challenge for big food because no matter what they do, they can't shake the fact that they're big food.

That is, they can produce a premium coffee that is every bit as good as anything you can buy anywhere, at any price, but coffee snobs will still snub it because it comes from big food.

I've read that beer testing is actually pretty similar. Beer aficionados are actually looking for high alcohol content. If you want high ratings, jack the alcohol. The beer nuts will praise everything about the beer but what it all boils down to is, they like the high alcohol content.

All within reason, of course. There are obviously people that do know what a good cup of coffee is. And the alcohol content can only be jacked so far before a limit is reached and people stop liking it.

[Jim Koepke]

And, can someone explain how the concept of pour over coffee works? We used to make coffee by boiling water and pouring it over the grounds. How is this different?

It isn't any different... Well okay, most coffee makers do not "boil" the water. The hardware is fancier and pricier.

It is difficult for me to believe the intent of this design was to make a better cup of coffee. This design seems to be a way of separating money from those who feel a need to enhance their coffee snobbery.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

There are obviously people that do know what a good cup of coffee is. And the alcohol content can only be jacked so far before a limit is reached and people stop liking it.

I missed the part about that fancy hardware being able to make Irish Coffee. Yummm!

jtk

[Phil Thien]

I missed the part about that fancy hardware being able to make Irish Coffee. Yummm!

jtk

That works.

[David Ragan]

I tend not to drink much coffee anymore (whole nother meeting), but if I want some, I have some Kona beans in the back and a French press. Filtered water.

The best beans are the pricier ones. you can grind them up pretty fine, and use less per cup for more mileage. At the time, those were ~$40/lb.

Then, I bought some cheaper Kona beans (~$25/lb), and there was some bitterness:eek: (please dont tell all the 2/3 of the planets inhabitants that get by on < $1/day)....anyway, yes, there was some bitterness. How dissappointing.

So, after a nice cup of coffee, and some cogitation, I went back down there the next morning, took my little hand grinder out, and set it up to grind not so fine---Viola!:p:p.....only problem was I had to use more beans, thus, nullifying the savings from the cheaper beans.

All I can tell you is that nice Kona, hand ground, filtered water, French press........tastes how coffee smells--all the flavor and caffeine, just a wonderfully smoooooth Cup. Think I'll get me some.....

[roger wiegand]

I don't think I'd go for that one, but in moments of fantasy I've thought about a Clover machine <http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2008/03/could_a_coffee_maker_be_worth_11000.html>an $11,000 machine that in some reality (not mine) might just be worth it. I am willing to drive miles out of my way to find a starbucks equipped with one. The Sumatra brewed using this machine is the best cup I've had since the old days at Peets in Menlo Park before they were bought out and watered the coffee down. It's not something I've succeeded in replicating despite lots of time and effort with thermometers, balances, and stopwatches and filters ranging from paper towel to gold.

(My usual coffee comes from a Jura super automatic espresso machine. Not bad, and very fast and easy.)

[roger wiegand]

I've read that beer testing is actually pretty similar. Beer aficionados are actually looking for high alcohol content. If you want high ratings, jack the alcohol. The beer nuts will praise everything about the beer but what it all boils down to is, they like the high alcohol content.
.

Here I thought it was all about the hops. I've never noticed much correlation of good taste above about 5.5% ABV. Below that, yes, more alcohol generally helps the flavor. I'm not sure it's possible to put too much hops in a beer.

[Matt Day]

I think I need to tell my wife that I should be able to spend all the money I save by not drinking coffee on tools. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Phil Thien]

Here I thought it was all about the hops. I've never noticed much correlation of good taste above about 5.5% ABV. Below that, yes, more alcohol generally helps the flavor. I'm not sure it's possible to put too much hops in a beer.

Well you can't prove anything by me, because I'm also not a beer snob. But...

http://beergraphs.com/bg/133-some-like-it-hot-how-abv-influences-ratings/

"Some Like it Hot: How ABV Influences Ratings"

There are other (similar) articles out there, too.

Someone ranked the beers at beerrating.com and found that they're pretty in-line with alcohol content.

[David Helm]

I definitely can tell the difference from one coffee to another. At home I have a mid range ($) espresso machine and a burr grinder. The water I use goes through a multi-stage filter that even removes any trace of chlorine taste. The coffee itself is roasted locally by an excellent roaster. I do like the darker roasts.

[roger wiegand]

Beergraphs is a great site! Thanks, very interesting. I had no idea so many beers were so high in ABV now. They must be using a lot of wine yeasts in the fermentations, back in my beer making days most of the strains we used topped out at 8.5 or 9%. Most of my current favorites are in the 5.5-7 range, which, it seems, is now well below average.

[Ryan Mooney]

We buy "premium" beans (small scale, hand picked, at about $6-7/lb green (less if we're buying 20lbs) which works out to around $9/lb after you account for roasting loss. I can definitely tell the difference between good beans and not-so-good and fresh versus stale beans. I don't really understand folks who buy expensive beans and then keep them roasted for a long time, they do go rancid after a few weeks (I guess some folks like that flavour which is ok I suppose). Personally I'm not a huge fan of Kona, yes I've had good kona, but its not a great value and all to often isn't great coffee either, imho there is a lot of taste the marketing there.

My favourite brewer is a 1930's vacuum pot we bought for $5 at a yard sale (and had to replace a seal for $10 so $15 overall). It makes perfect coffee once I tweaked the thermocouple set points a smidge. Its a bit of hassle to setup in the morning though before you've had coffee :D We also have a really nice little pour over cone that cost $10 and makes fantastic coffee, you do sort of have to pay attention when doing it by hand but geez louise its not that hard!! An aeropress for under $30 also makes quite good coffee (comparable to a decent but not stellar pour over) and doesn't require a lot of thought to make a decent cup.

The $500 pour over is.. imho.. ridiculous.. crazy.. loco.. We have an espresso machine that's in the same ballpark but its at least complicated in both principal and design. Pour over is just really not that hard.

Someone thinks there are people who have to much money, I would agree and applaud their chutzpah at foisting this off on the unsuspecting world. Well done hipster coffee dude, well done.


Well you can't prove anything by me, because I'm also not a beer snob. But...

http://beergraphs.com/bg/133-some-like-it-hot-how-abv-influences-ratings/

"Some Like it Hot: How ABV Influences Ratings"


This actually moves around, for quite a few years if you were looking to take best of show you had to go big or go home. The last couple of years there's been a bit of a reversal on that trend. Its not entirely clear where it will move but there does seem to be a bit of a backlash against the huge beers. Genuine beer snobs differentiate beer on a whole lot of variables, its ... complicated ... :D

[Ryan Mooney]

Here's another overpriced idea of dubious veracity for your viewing pleasure: http://www.canadiano.co/canadiano-shop/

[Phil Thien]

Here's another overpriced idea of dubious veracity for your viewing pleasure: http://www.canadiano.co/canadiano-shop/

Huh.

BTW, I have a question. The $400 unit Jim linked seems to indicate that less oil gets to the cup.

But it uses what looks like a steel mesh filter.

And some manufacturers seem to emphasize that their coffee makers allow the oils through.

So what is it, is the oil good or bad?

What, in your opinion, actually results in a good cup of coffee?

[Stew Hagerty]

I can't help myself. I confess, I'm a coffee snob.

[Robert Engel]

I am a coffee snob but one of my most favorite brands is the pure Columbian store brand beans you can buy at Sam's Club. It comes in big bags and costs less per pound than standard brand coffees at the grocery store. My favorite brewing method is using a french press I bought for under $30 at a department store going-out-of-business sale. Higher cost doesn't always mean better taste.Hey I thought I was the only one who thinks this is pretty decent coffee!

My two "coffee snob" sons won't drink it.

My new fav brewing method is pour over. Great for me since I've cut my caffeine intake down to 1 cup/day (BP issues).

[Ryan Mooney]

Huh.

BTW, I have a question. The $400 unit Jim linked seems to indicate that less oil gets to the cup.

But it uses what looks like a steel mesh filter.

And some manufacturers seem to emphasize that their coffee makers allow the oils through.

So what is it, is the oil good or bad?

What, in your opinion, actually results in a good cup of coffee?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you properly bloom the coffee and pour carefully and slowly in a traditional pour over (which is what the canadiano essentially is) it acts as its own filter bed so you get fairly minimal oils in practice. A proper pour over takes around 3 minutes to do (more than you probably wanted to know here: http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/06/make-better-pourover-coffee-how-pourover-works-temperature-timing.html)

Of course if you use just roasted coffee it will be oilier than coffee that's rested for the appropriate amount of time so there's that to consider as well. Some oil adds some flavour which can be either good or bad depending on the specific coffee (and there is also some hysteria about coffee oils raising cholesterol, which I have no real opinion on except that its a small amount of oil.. so.. yeah).

So oils, good or bad? yes yes they are :p

A good cup of coffee is variable and subjective but has some criteria that is somewhat constant:

is made from decent quality beans. For some uses a little robusta in the mix is ok (like a New Orleans french style coffee with sugar and cream and a beignet on the side) but generally prefer arabica. What region is debatable there are great coffees from all over the world but they do vary so it depends on what you like. Some are rich and roasty, some are leathery and rustic, some are .. well there's a lot of options anyway :D Personally if I had to pick two I'm fond of Ethiopian dry process and Sumatran but they're on the earthy end so they wouldn't be for everyone, for a lighter cup a Guatemalan is a nice change.
A consistent roast matters, no green beans, no burnt beans (no half roasted beans). This is unlikely to be a serious problem with most commercial roasted coffee but I've had a few stinker batches from a couple of artisinal places (everyone has a bad day sometimes).
the beans were roasted roughly the correct amount of time previously (not to recent so they're all greasy +12-48 hours, not so old they're rancid -2-4 weeks)
the grind is consistent and appropriate fineness for the brewing process used. Many coffee snobs agree that its worth spending more on the grinder than you do on the brew system (especially true for espresso .

french press: coarse
pour over coarse mesh: medium/coarse
pour over fine(r) mesh: medium to medium fine
aeropress: medium fine
drip: depends on the filter, usually medium fine
espresso: very fine


the roast is of an appropriate darkness for the bean and the brewing method. Generally the hotter your brewing method the finer you want to grind the coffee and the faster you want to brew (optimize extraction of good flavours while minimizing off flavors). Most commercial coffee is slightly over roasted because that cooks off more of the oil and it keeps longer (and a lot of people are used to darker coffee and perceive lighter roasts as being to fruity or acidic). Some explanation of roast profiles here: https://www.sweetmarias.com/roasted.pict-guide.php but there is a lot of play within this and different coffees like to be roasted lighter or darker for a given brewing method so its hard to pick a hard and fast rule here. Its kind of like beer, it should be balanced and allow the flavour to present itself it a pleasant fashion.

http://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-grind


Brew at an appropriate temperature and amount/balance of coffee for the brewing method and coffee: https://www.sweetmarias.com/grind.brew.php
This list is incomplete...


So.. what makes a good cup of coffee? Well... lots of things... I've clearly over complicated it above (that is what we do around here isn't it? :cool:) but as long as you have decently roasted fresh beans, grind them to about the right grind for your chosen brew method, and brew it close to the right way for that coffee its not that hard to make a pretty good cup.

[Chris Padilla]

I don't drink coffee but I like the walnut strips in the maker. :) I'm not sure I would call it 'carved' however.... :D

[Moses Yoder]

I can taste the difference in coffee. Yesterday morning I made a pot of coffee and drank a cup on the way to work. It was okay. This morning I am sitting at the McDonalds in Orrville OH with a cup of coffee about to spend the day at the International Coleman Convention meeting some good friends and looking at rare and fantastic lanterns all day. Now there is a good cup of coffee.

[Larry Edgerton]

I just make coffee. Its most likely no less important, just I am not so picky. I just need coffee!

I look at fancy coffee kinda like working on wooden ladders.:p

[Leigh Betsch]

I use a French press and cheap grocery stores beans. But I've been think about a kureg or nespress unit. What say to those?

[Phil Thien]

I use a French press and cheap grocery stores beans. But I've been think about a kureg or nespress unit. What say to those?

I wasn't overly impressed w/ the Keurig we had, it seems your choice is a small cup of okay coffee or a larger cup of weak coffee. You can use a couple of the k-cups but that starts to seem wasteful.

I'm the only person left in the house that drinks coffee, so I have a Black & Decker "single serve" maker that will make a nice big travel mug of coffee.

I know it isn't great coffee but it is a lot of coffee (and I make it pretty strong).

[Rich Engelhardt]

LOL!
I'm the opposite of a coffee snob...

I run the tap water a little to make sure it's hot, then dump a teaspoon of Aldi's instant into a third of a cup of the hot water.
Then I hold my nose and gag it down.

[Moses Yoder]

I see Keurigs for sale all the time at on-line garage sales and on site garage sales. That tells me something. Something like a Bunn has to keep the water hot all the time so the energy costs are astronomical.

[Phil Thien]

LOL!
I'm the opposite of a coffee snob...

I run the tap water a little to make sure it's hot, then dump a teaspoon of Aldi's instant into a third of a cup of the hot water.
Then I hold my nose and gag it down.

That sounds about as bad as it gets.

The funny thing is, these days everyone (even McDonalds) is pitching premium coffee. And I've never in my life had so many bad cups. Coffee that is weak, coffee that is cold.

There is little consistency any more.

[Mac McQuinn]

Hard to say for me, as I don't drink coffee.

It's made in the USA, which for me would be something I would pay a premium for.

I have a $150 kettle at home for tea that allows you to set it for different temperatures for different types of tea.

So maybe I would buy one of these coffee makers if I was a coffee drinker............Rod.

Rod,
I've got to ask, what brand Tea Kettle do you have and what is the country of origin? I've been looking for the elusive Made in USA, Tea Kettle for years and it doesn't seem to exist. All I seem to find is China and Thailand made Tea Kettles, something I have no interest in.
Mac

[Shawn Pixley]

We can talk. A coffee drinker with the same predilictions...

[Tom Stenzel]

My morning coffee is one of my favorite parts of starting the day.

Like many my choice of beans and method of making could be considered a ritual. Surely many are satisfied with a less rigorous routine or do not see the attraction of a 'premium' high priced bean.

To me, this is a bit too much:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-24/review-is-a-gorgeous-pour-over-coffee-maker-worth-500-

Is this a sign that some people have too much money? (Robin Williams, at least once said, "cocaine is God's way of saying you have too much money.")

Start with good water, good grounds and most folks couldn't tell the difference if you used a paper towel for the filter.

jtk

I'm surprised that no one noticed that the coffee maker looks exactly like a Chemex with a $450 water heater attached to it!

My wife broke my Chemex within days of moving in. It wasn't replaced.

Now a good cup of coffee at home is when I open up a NEW can of Maxwell House!

When out and about my favorite coffees come from Dunkin Donuts, Big Boy (if there are any left) and Tim Hortons. Never cared for Starbucks.

At the coney island restaurant I worked at in the '70s the Bunn would kick out pretty good coffee if it someone would CLEAN it properly, a job that usually fell on me since I was the counterman and therefore the only one there on the graveyard shift.

-Tom

[glenn bradley]

The people who buy that coffee rig also buy $120 t-shirts so how do you start that conversation?

[Ryan Mooney]

The people who buy that coffee rig also buy $120 t-shirts so how do you start that conversation?

I'd never notice, a t-shirt snob I am not :D I do have a nice collection of free ones from work/conferences/events though so to the uninitiated it might appear I was a collector.