Card Scraper v Scraper Plane

[David Ragan]

Would it be fair to say that a scraper Plane can/should be used with any flat surface, and will need less edge maintainence than a card scraper?

My question comes from the experience of reading a bunch of articles on card scraper sharpening and trying to get a viable edge on a Sandvik/Bahko super-hard scraper last weekend. I wil have another go at it Saturday.

As you all know, other less hardened steel scrapers are much easier to work.

(Not trying to get a thread going on scraper sharpening, per se.)

Then it occurred to me-why bother with a card scraper if it is just a flat surface, normal type situation-just use the 112/212, less trouble, etc, Right?:confused:

[Pat Barry]

No ............

[glenn bradley]

Hmmm, apples and oranges. Both are worthy tools and both get used in my shop. A crosscut saw is not a rip saw although both are used for sawing. Both scrapers are used for similar functions but, I do not find them interchangeable. Card scrapers are more versatile, the scraper plane has a reference surface but, I do not use one in situations where I would use the other. If I could only have one it would be a card scraper since I can do so much more with it.

[lowell holmes]

I have a Stanley scraper I use some, but since viewing the sharpening video below, I pretty much use card scrapers for final shaping.
I have a pair of Lie Nielsen card scrapers. I find them to be superior to others.

I do not own a scraping plane.






http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/how-to-sharpen-a-card-scraper.aspx

[David M Anderson]

Hard to beat a StewMac scraper, love using mine.

[Andrew Gold]

Glenn (and others)
I'd love to hear which tasks you're using which tool for. I think I have a start of a handle on when card scrapers make sense, but know very little about scraping planes.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have the LV scraper plane, and numerous card scrapers - also a Stanley 80.

The LV comes out when there is a large[r] area I want to cover. The card scrapers are for small[er] areas, touch up, finish pass on table top glue-joints. Plus - one that is dedicated to peel off the rubbery glue squeeze-out from glue-ups - looks nasty, works great.

I guess the 80 should be a candidate for sale - bought it new, took it around the block a couple times.......that's all. Didn't cost much, won't bring much, looks cool in the till.......maybe keep it for aesthetics....:D

The card scrapers get used a lot more than the plane. They are lightning fast to put into play, cover some ground, and move on. Got 5 - every so often, I take 30 minutes and rehook them all........

I don't know anything about the extra-hard steel David has trouble getting set up. My scrapers are LV and LN - easy-peasy to prep and re-hook.......

[Bill McNiel]

Kind of a side note- my wonderful wife gifted me with a Veritas Scraqper Holder that has greatly improved the comfort to my aged hands when using card scrapers. She actually went full out and presented me with the Jointer & Edger as well as the Variable Burnisher. Not sure if she was really being nice or just pointing out to me how really old I've become, but I am pleased with their performance (these are not toys I would buy for myself).

[David Ragan]

Kind of a side note- my wonderful wife gifted me with a Veritas Scraqper Holder that has greatly improved the comfort to my aged hands when using card scrapers. She actually went full out and presented me with the Jointer & Edger as well as the Variable Burnisher. Not sure if she was really being nice or just pointing out to me how really old I've become, but I am pleased with their performance (these are not toys I would buy for myself).

I have that Veritas holder-great implement.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have that Veritas holder-great implement.


Non-LV cards scrapers may not fit that holder. LN, for example, will not.

[David Ragan]

Non-LV cards scrapers may not fit that holder. LN, for example, will not.

Brother Bathurst-my LN cards fit. Whats the deal?

Did i get a raw deal?

[lowell holmes]

[QUOTE=David Ragan;2435713]Brother Bathurst-my LN cards fit. Whats the deal?


As do mine. I use it frequently.

[Kent A Bathurst]

[QUOTE=David Ragan;2435713]Brother Bathurst-my LN cards fit. Whats the deal?


As do mine. I use it frequently.


OOops.....my mistake .it is some other brand then - I have some that wont' fit - not sure where they all came from........none are LV, some are LN - must be the 3d brand that won't fit.

Sorry............

[Tony Zaffuto]

Hard to beat a StewMac scraper, love using mine.

You beat me to it Dave.

I've used lots of different scrapers: cards, scraper planes, handled, #80, #12, etc., but the StewMac is in a class by itself.

[Jeff Johnson]

Non-LV cards scrapers may not fit that holder. LN, for example, will not.

Why not? The LN cards are advertised as 6" and the LV holder says it holds 6".

[lowell holmes]

My LN scrapers fit my LV scraper card holder. I use them in it frequently.

[david charlesworth]

Scraper plane infinitely preferable for flat surfaces, it will keep them "flat".

I like a card scraper for shaped surfaces such as those found on chairs.

Best wishes,
David

[Pat Barry]

Scraper plane infinitely preferable for flat surfaces, it will keep them "flat".
David

I don't have any experience with the scraper plane, but I can't see how it would keep em flat better than a properly used scraper. A scraper for example, has a much wider contact surface with the work. Comparing it to the scraper planes I see, you are looking at twice the contact surface for the scraper blade as compared to that scraper plane blade. This alone leads to improved flatness. The tool though, is really only for final surface finish, right? Just very small amounts of material to be removed. If your surface prep is not done correctly before that then all bets are off

[glenn bradley]

I don't have any experience with the scraper plane, but I can't see how it would keep em flat better than a properly used scraper.

The scraper plane has a reference surface. Similar to trimming tenon shoulders with a chisel versus a shoulder plane. However, like a shoulder plane, a scraper plane does not provide all scraping functions. Each tool to its job ;-)

[David Ragan]

I don't have any experience with the scraper plane, but I can't see how it would keep em flat better than a properly used scraper. A scraper for example, has a much wider contact surface with the work. Comparing it to the scraper planes I see, you are looking at twice the contact surface for the scraper blade as compared to that scraper plane blade. This alone leads to improved flatness. The tool though, is really only for final surface finish, right? Just very small amounts of material to be removed. If your surface prep is not done correctly before that then all bets are off

So, would it be fair to say that a card scraper is more useful for actually removing milling marks?

Or, as David C said, and my question was meant, that if at all possible, go with the scraper plane, cause it will leave a flatter surface?

Any issues with easing the very corners of the scraper plane?

[Pat Barry]

So, would it be fair to say that a card scraper is more useful for actually removing milling marks?

Or, as David C said, and my question was meant, that if at all possible, go with the scraper plane, cause it will leave a flatter surface?

Any issues with easing the very corners of the scraper plane?
I think you might want to use your smoothing plane first for those milling marks and then a card scraper to sweeten up the surface as needed.
The point Glenn makes is well stated, however, I think that using a card scraper is really just a light pass type of tool - its not a substitute for your smoothing plane. If its used for heavy stock removal than, yes, there can be trouble/

[Derek Cohen]

I own a Stanley #112 and #80, plus the small Veritas scraping plane, none of which get much if any use. They all work, and do so quite well, but just do not serve a purpose in my choice of method.

The Veritas and the #80 occasionally get used for glue lines, but other than that I prefer a cabinet scraper (or card, as it seems to be called in the USA).

The issue is not so much that the scraper plane can keep the surface flat - I am not convinced of that since the blade is generally bent into a radius - the issue is more one of horses for courses. What I like about the cabinet scraper is that it is akin to a very small smoother, and it will take less off the surface than a longer handplane. While some surfaces need to be dead flat (if you plan to create a reflective funish), it is otherwise not visible.

For myself it is also not a case of difficulty controlling tearout as I can do that pretty well with a handplane. It is more a case if situations where it is difficult to use a handplane, and then I will use a cabinet scraper.

What I like about the cabinet scraper is that it has an unfinite number of cutting angles. Bend the blade and create a smaller cutting area if you need. It is also very easy to see where you are cutting, and possible to start and stop on a mark.

Below is a panel I recently worked on. It is 1/4" thick, and maintaining absolute flatness (edit: when lying on the bench top) was impossible. A handplane could not be used without removing more of the thickness. The surface looks good to me - as good as a handplane? Probably not, but very good nevertheless, and once an oil finish goes on, I cannot tell the difference.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/LingerieChest2_html_762383b6.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/LingerieChest2_html_345cf09f.jpg

One more example. Below is a chest with dovetails at the ends. Planing with the grain would threaten breaking off the edges (spelching) of the dovetail endgrain. I smoothed the dovetails and then used a cabinet scraper to the start of the dovetail baseline ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Scraping_html_7731962a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[david charlesworth]

In the hands of the unskilled, (I teach beginners) the card scraper is an invitation to create hollows, which subsequently cause problems with finishes which need sanding between coats.

Scraper planes are magnificent tools if sharpened and set correctly. However it is clear that some find them difficult.

Maintaining flatness with a card scraper is skilled work.

Best wishes,
David

[David M Anderson]

So true, but that can be said about any tools.
Quoting from another source, think of the card scrapper as a micro-plane.

[david charlesworth]

With no sole!