Sort of a wood turning thread: shavings as mulch?

[John Shillabeer]

Early this year I mulched my fruit trees with shavings from turning. One tree has died, one is looking very sick, one is surviving without producing any fruit and the last one is doing wonderfully well producing a bounty of cherries.

I added some municipal compost on top of the shavings.

There was a bit of local walnut mixed in with the remaining maple, poplar and madrone shavings. I thought shavings were good for much. Perhaps I was wrong?

Do any Creekers have similar experience and is anyone able to shed a little light on the matter?
Regards
John

[Ron Rutter]

John. From what I have heard Walnut is a definite NO-NO.Especially if fresh. Maple & poplar would be fine. Don't know about madrone- is that Arbutus?? Sort of a loner in the woods! Ron.

[Reed Gray]

Yes, the walnut can kill just about anything. If it is composted first, then applied, then it isn't so bad. It is bad for animals as well. If you put fresh shavings as mulch around trees, you don't want to cover any of the trunk. I don't know why, but it can stunt them. Also, fresh shavings, when composting will pull a lot of nitrogen out of the soil, so you need some thing to replace it, such as manure.

robo hippy

[Ryan Mooney]

As a much I don't actually think that shavings pull that much nitrogen. If you mix them in, yes for sure. Based on about 5 years of mulching heavily on the yard with wood shavings and not seeing any nitrogen deficiency problems. I also live in a really dry area so the moisture retention is likely more important than anything else :D

In this case I'd agree its likely the walnut.

Here's a rough explanation of the problem with much adjacent to tree trunks: http://www.coldclimategardening.com/2011/11/14/mulch-can-kill-trees/
You can fix the girdling if its not to far in with root pruning, but I can't see that being a problem in less than a year anyway.

[Mark Greenbaum]

Walnut is very high in tannic acid, I believe, and it has killed my garden in the past. Black walnuts were falling into the garden spot for many years, and unbeknownst to me, what I thought was rich black loam was a highly acidic soil. First crops were OK, but second harvest withered on the vines.

I have used Bradford Pear shavings around a Red Maple sapling with much success to keep it drought resistant. Yes, keep the walnut shavings for a very active composting pile, and add lots of greenery and nitrogen (manure), and lime (sea shells, egg shells, limestone) to help break it down to be less acidic. Good luck saving the trees.

[Brian Brown]

Is it possible that something besides the shavings are are being mixed into the mulch? In my area the city has a mulching plan and residents are invited to take the free mulch. The problem is that often the mulch is made in the same place as the city dumps the traction sand that is swept off the streets after winter is over. This includes the chemical that is used to melt the snow. I don't remember the chemical that is used, (maybe I never knew) but it kills vegetation. In my case, I won't use my turning shavings, because my shop is the same garage where I park my vehicles. The snow/ice/sand/chemical mixture melts off the vehicles at night, and when I sweep up the shavings in the garage it all gets mixed together. Combine that with the walnut shavings I sometimes make, and I really don't want that in my garden.

[Michelle Rich]

DO NOT USE WALNUT..in mulch or as bedding for animals..

[Dave Cullen]

Walnut trees have Juglone. Cherry trees are tolerant of it, but others aren't :

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2005/jul/070701.htm

[Wes Ramsey]

I love walnut shavings. A couple of years ago I borrowed a backhoe to move some dirt around my shop, then made a trail through the woods behind it with a campsite at the end for me and my boys to camp and have bonfires. Walnut really helps keep the undergrowth from sprouting back up and makes a quiet path to tread when trying to sneak up on squirrels and deer :D

Beyond that, walnut shavings are akin to poison for plants and animals both.

[John Shillabeer]

Thanks everyone. I wasn't sure about asking your advice since this topic is pretty marginally connected to turning. I am glad I did.
I had better dig out the mulch ASAP.
John

[Ralph Lindberg]

Yes Madrone and Arbutus are the same thing, Spanish name (used mostly in the US) and British name (used mostly in BC)
BR (Before Retirement) I went up to Parksville once or twice a month to work on the test range at Nanoose, and have friends and in-laws across much of the Island. So I am familiar with the area

[Hilel Salomon]

Shavings and what you do with them is integral to woodturning as we tend to produce tons of the stuff. I learned the hard way not to use shavings directly from turning. The mulch you get is commercially treated. Green or wet shavings will kill shrubs quite quickly and poison the area for some time. Walnut is beautiful wood, but as a tree it is a killer of most everything around it, and as a mulch it is deadly. I understand that if you use cherry, ash and other non-exotics as compost and let it sit a while, it can be used, but I just have a giant pile for the shavings where nothing is intended to grow, and I let nature take care of it.

[Mark Greenbaum]

The class of Deep Hollowing I took last year at J C Campbell Folk School, they gathered all of the shavings, except rosewoods, ebony, walnut for bedding for the horses they use for riding and farm work. Walnut and cedar especially are harmful to animals, so don't put in stalls as bedding. But the other wood shavings mixed with horse manure was then mucked out to the compost piles to ferment for a good 6 months, then used in the gardens that they raised vegetables for the cafeteria. You could check with them to see what they'd recommend, and I am sure they would steer you correctly.

[robert baccus]

Most if not all fresh organic matter should not be used until well rotted. A good compost pile should be turned for air, and a bit od nitrogen as well.

[Wes Ramsey]

The class of Deep Hollowing I took last year at J C Campbell Folk School, they gathered all of the shavings, except rosewoods, ebony, walnut for bedding for the horses they use for riding and farm work. Walnut and cedar especially are harmful to animals, so don't put in stalls as bedding. But the other wood shavings mixed with horse manure was then mucked out to the compost piles to ferment for a good 6 months, then used in the gardens that they raised vegetables for the cafeteria. You could check with them to see what they'd recommend, and I am sure they would steer you correctly.

Are you sure about cedar? I've seen cedar shavings sold in pet stores as bedding material. I've used it some that way myself with no negative results and have used it extensively as garden mulch. I like it in the garden because it really helps keep the critters at bay, but come to think of it my tomatoes never have done well there. I thought it was because they got too much shade, but you have me questioning that now. Not challenging you, but I'd appreciate any more info you have so I can learn.

[Mark Greenbaum]

I am pretty sure cedar has ill effects of large animals (aromatics), and even my kids Guinea Pigs - we use a paper-ish cellulose product that's free of allergens, and scents. Check with JC Campbell and see what they say; they're very organically oriented.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cedar-mulch-good-gardens-66364.html - I may have to rescind that cedar comment based upon this article.

[nelson lasaosa]

Yes most of the time adding saw dust or Wood shavings, have a deleterious effect on plant growth, due to nutrient depletion by microorganisms breaking down the Wood fibers. Moreover, some Woods may exudate compounds that may affect, even kill other plants. This actually happens in nature as a way to erradicate other plant species trying to grow too close to a given plant species. If you want to help your plants, either compost your Wood residues, or add Green clippings to them ...

[robert baccus]

Green clippings get very hot if used in a thick mat or pile.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

As usual when these kinds of questions are asked we get all kinds of answers, confused and half-truths, yes Walnut Juglone toxin can and does affect some plants, like Tomatoes and Apple trees and a few more, but many plants grow well if they do get enough light and moisture, also the juglone does break down quite quickly, like leaves are not affecting plants in as little as 4 to 6 weeks time, bark, shavings and the like need a half to one year to be not affecting plants like Tomatoes, I have used fresh mulch and composted leaves that included Black Walnut under and around trees and shrubs, just don’t dig it in, as air is something like 80% nitrogen the breaking down material can get all it needs from the air very easily.

I would remove the grass around my trees and never mulch right up to the trees, as it is used to keep moisture and help keep the ground cool it doesn’t need to be up against the tree trunk and build up can be harmful for a tree even dirt is not good to mount up around it.

Here is an excerpt from an Ohio State University fact sheet and also a link to it if you like to read up on it 316249.

316250

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html

[Wes Ramsey]

I am pretty sure cedar has ill effects of large animals (aromatics), and even my kids Guinea Pigs - we use a paper-ish cellulose product that's free of allergens, and scents. Check with JC Campbell and see what they say; they're very organically oriented.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cedar-mulch-good-gardens-66364.html - I may have to rescind that cedar comment based upon this article.

That's good info. Thanks! But for what it's worth, cedar mulch doesn't do jack against squash bugs :mad: