Laminated Chalice experiments

[Brian Kent]

These are the first 7 tries (#1 at the left, #7 at the right) at applying a curved reed pattern to chalice blanks. In each case the basic pattern is the same. Sort of a sweeping "Y" shape starting with 2 close parallel lines at the bottom and curving out towards the top. Right now I am trying different nuances in the glue up stage and different chalice shapes to see how that ends up.

The main challenges are in the glue-up stage. Squeezing 2 curved pieces of wood together with wet glue encourages all kinds of slippage.

The first glue-up can be with just about any thickness of laminate (or whatever the word is for the thin slice of wood). The second one needs to be the same thickness as the saw kerf - .060" in my case. My drum sander needs fixin' so this part is a challenge too.

So even when it slips out of pattern shape I continue with the piece to experiment with form.

(The fourth picture should have audio with it, something like "Now Stay! Stay! Don't move! Stay right there! No Slipping!)

[David Delo]

Another very fine job on each and everyone of these pieces Brian. Your becoming the laminated chalice king for sure but I think I might like the headboard carving the best!!!!!

[Brian Kent]

Thanks David. Unfortunately the headboard was one of my very first pieces and it is a carved / stamped piece from Rockler. I haven't tried carving yet. :)

[Brian Kent]

I'll share some of my experiences here in case you want to try this.

I am starting with the first glue-up done.

Picture 1 shows the clamping. The big wooden clamp is there to keep the middle piece from squirting up. (These are curved surfaces and the wet glue makes it like trying to squeeze a greased eel playing a trombone!)

Picture 2 shows the side clamps and the extra block. These are doing most of the work, with the glue block giving room for the excess laminate to stick out until it is trimmed.

Picture 3 shows the glue box, the glue block, the glued up blank, and the piece of dog-food bag that keeps it from sticking.

[Brian Kent]

After trimming off the excess from the first glue-up, set the fence at the right distance so that the bottom parts of the laminate are the distance apart you want. If you want the lines visible on the stem, then set the distance so that the cuts will be closer together than the width of the stem.

Cut about half-way up the block. Back it out, flip it over and make the second cut.
Remove the fence and complete the cut by making an outward curve, so the blade comes out of the side of the block, not the top.
Turn the block over again and use the cut piece as a template to draw the curve for the second cut.

[Brian Kent]

I made this little corner box to hold the piece secure. Even though it is melamine, the glue stuck, so I cover it with a piece of plastic.
The shorter block between the blank and the box lets the bank pieces be held secure without bending the part of the laminate that is sticking out.

In this case I used 3 layers of contrasting veneer, which together have the same thickness as my bandsaw kerf (.060"). This is so it will fill up the same amount of space that was removed and make it possible to have a consistent line on the first cut.

The wooden clamp keeps the center section snug against the end of the box. The first metal clamp would squeeze the center part out of line if not for the balancing force of the wooden clamp. I watch very carefully as I tighten these to make sure the laminates are in place and the 3 main parts of the blank are in line. By the time I have secured the wood clamp and the first metal clamp, all of the parts - the 3 blocks and the laminates - are touching the end of the box.

At that point add additional clamps to make sure there is pressure across the piece every direction.

The far right picture shows what to do if any of the pieces have crept up off of the bottom of the jig. I use a soft piece of wood and a mallet to pound it back into position.

Check in a few minutes to see if the greased eel slid away.

The words on the yellow dog food bag are not intended as subliminal advertising for Costco. :)

[Brian Kent]

In the picture at the beginning of the thread, from left to right, only #4, 5, and 6 did not slip out of position.

The last one (on the right) I was about to throw away because of slippage, but I decided to camouflage it by complex-ifying the design.

I will keep on working on glue-up technique as this is the most difficult part of making these cups. Several people have recommended drilling registration holes. I started to try it and then realized I would have to re-drill the un-glued piece with all of the laminations because the laminations would not have holes.

[David Delo]

Nice pic-tutorial Brian. Great bucket list addition.

[Dok Yager]

Very nice chalices Brian. Thanks for the great pictorial thread on the glue up!

[Brian Kent]

Some better pictures in natural light…

[Thom Sturgill]

Brian, great job. My only comment, and I think I said this before, would be to keep the distance and 'sweep' such that the reeds stay in the stem at the bottom and exit the rim at the top. I realize this might make for a weaker rim, but I think the change is worth trying.

[Thom Sturgill]

Another idea, make the blanks a little long and drill a through hole near the bottom sized to allow a dowel to fit in easily. Dry fit after cutting and drill the inserts. Assemble from the center out aligning on the dowels which should be slightly shorter than the assembled width so that they do not stick out. While this is extra steps, it will stop the slippage you are experiencing.

[Brian Kent]

Thank you Thom. I'll try it (once my bandsaw tires are replaced and the drum sander repaired)

[Dwight Rutherford]

To help prevent slippage, a pinch of sand on the glue join works.

[Dave Cullen]

Thanks for the writeup Brian. Are you able to get a clean enough cut off the bandsaw to not have a glue line?

[Brian Kent]

Thom, on your second recommendation, I think that will work. If the holes are in the extra length the laminates will not interfere.

Dave, I am using a Lennox Diemaster Bi-metal blade, 1/2" with 3 hooked teeth per inch. I would not select this one for ultimate smoothness. Nevertheless I have not tried to sand it smoother. I would not want to mess up the fit. So the glue line has not shown but some places have revealed the roughness of the cut. At a later stage I may experiment with other blades, but not yet.

[Brian Kent]

OK, Thom, here is the result of a couple of your ideas. First, I kept the laminations in the step and then exiting through the top. This was no problem in regard to rim strength, though this one does have an extra thick rim.

I have not tried the dowel idea, but did not cut through the top. Then I pushed the gluey walnut into the kerf. Then I just turned away the top after it was on the lathe.

This is curly maple and walnut.

[mike pockoski]

Really nice. My favorite so far. I'd prefer a thinner rim, but the symmetry and contrast of this one really speak to me. Great work.

[Brian Kent]

I totally agree about the rim, Mike.

[Thom Sturgill]

Looking good, Brian! I almost missed this one, I was expecting a new thread after the bandsaw fix. I do think eliminating the circular area where the 'reeds' did not exit is an improvement and makes the top more organic. Obliviously, your idea of leaving the top intact works too! Can't slip if never separated.

Only other suggestion (other than a thinner rim, but you already know that) might be to try curving the very bottom out on the cuts for the reds. Does not have to be much to give more of an 'organic' appearance.

[Brian Kent]

I am practicing making as many mistakes as possible. I think after a couple thousand I will have a little more control over the outcome :)

[Thom Sturgill]

Oh, now I REALLY like these! The intertwined base really set it off! I think you have a winner on your hands1

[Allan Wright]

I'm liking the (purple heart?) red accent in the left most chalice in the third photo. It seems like something you'd have on a starship.

[Brian Kent]

I'm liking the (purple heart?) red accent in the left most chalice in the third photo. It seems like something you'd have on a starship.

Thank you. That is Padauk, which also means someday it will turn dark brown.

[Brian Kent]

This one is an experiment with 4 laminations on one face.

The last photo is to show the difference between a Wood Turners Finish and a shellac / blo / mineral spirits finish. The wood from the two chalices is from the same board.