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View Full Version : Another Estate Sale Plane Pick



Al Launier
06-22-2015, 6:42 AM
Ran across this & picked it up for $5 at a local estate sale. I think it's a Jointer Plane, or perhaps a long Jack Plane, not sure; it's 18" O/A length. It has "Union" on the front of the body. The metal is sound throughout & all the pieces are there. Right now I have all the pieces soaking in white vinegar (suggested by a local person). Also have some Krud Kutter rust remover & Rust Free as followup as necessary.

I forgot to take pictures before i disassembled it, so this is all I can show at this time.

The wooden knob & handle appear to be sound & should clean up adequately.

Actually I don't know why I bought it as I doubt if I'll have a use for it. It's just that wood hand planes appeal to me for some reason & a collection is just statrting to grow. Plus I can't pass up an opportunity for what may be a good deal(?).

Harold Burrell
06-22-2015, 7:55 AM
$5??? Yeah, you got a good deal!

What you have there is a #6 Fore Plane. It is kind of in between a Jack and a Jointer, though it can be used as both.

It looks like it could use a severe cleaning. Hopefully there is not too much pitting.

Moses Yoder
06-22-2015, 6:08 PM
Union is generally a good quality plane. If you want, you can buy a Hock iron for it.

Stew Denton
06-22-2015, 9:46 PM
Hi Al,

+1 on what the guys above wrote. The Stanley #6 is typically 18 inches long, and is considered their fore plane. Stanley planes are the standard to which all others are compared as to the classification. Thus the guys above calling it a fore plane.

The fore plane is called a fore plane, or so I have read, because it is typically the first plane used to dress down a piece of rough cut lumber approximately to thickness and to start to get it flat. It is use before (fore) any other plane is used.

After the fore plane is used, a jointer plane (22 to 22+ inches long, Stanley #7 or #8) is used to get it really flat and to thickness. The last plane used is the smoothing plane (9 or 10 inches long typically, Stanley #3 or #4) to get the lumber smooth enough to finish.

For what it's worth, I have read that Stanley also advertised the #6 as a short jointer plane, and some use it for exactly that.


Typically the fore plane iron is sharpened with a pretty good camber.

Stew

bridger berdel
06-22-2015, 10:13 PM
I've used my 6 as a jack and as a jointer, and in my hands it makes a better jointer.

Reinis Kanders
06-23-2015, 12:41 AM
I also favor my Stanley no.6 for a lot of things. It is very easy to register when edge jointing small to medium relatively narrow edges almost like BU jack, but with double iron.

Mark Stutz
06-23-2015, 10:20 AM
Don't soak it in vinegar too long. It's a much stronger acid than you think and could really eat away at the metal.

Persoanlly, I've used Evaporust with good results, and haven't had to worry too much about letting things soak if I got busy.

David Ragan
06-23-2015, 11:15 AM
This is why I have a car battery charger. Works great. I have bought a slew of chemicals to find one to get rust off. Can't beat electrolysis (after a scrub).

Lonnie Gallaher
06-23-2015, 4:21 PM
It looks like a Union by Stanley. Stanley acquired the Union plane works in 1920. They continued the Union badge until 1942.

Here is my #7 Union by Stanley. One of my favorite planes.

316120

Al Launier
06-26-2015, 7:33 AM
Thanks to all for your comments & especially to Stew for his short tutorial on planes; I found Stew's comments helpful as my knowledge of planes & their useage is very limited, as you've already noticed.

I soaked the pieces in white vineger for (2) days & have since used Krud Kutter Rust Remover and Inhibitor (3) times thus far. The vinegar did a surprisingly good job, better than I expected, and the KK has also removed a lot of rust. It's now time for scrapeing & sanding. The metal looks to be in very good condtion & the knobs as well. I've applied Mineral Spirits to the knobs to clean them up & have sanded them in preparation for staining.

The project is coming along, albeit slowly, but I'll get ther.

Al Launier
07-03-2015, 7:24 AM
Well, as you can see it's in somewhat better shape than when I picked it up. You can also see that the cutter in particular is pitted, more than I thought at first with all the rust on it. The brass adjustment screw had all of the knurl "squashed down", probably from pliers as I couldn't get the cutter to draw within the body. After checking things out I suspect it's not the original adjustment screw. To get the cutter edge pulled in I had to remove material from the brass adjustment screw so it could thread in further as it was hitting against the frog well before bottoming out. I also had to remove ~ 1/8" from the edge of the cutter to barely get it within the body & to get the cutting edge into a minimally pitted area. Plus, I had to enlarge the key hole in the cap for the adjustment lever to allow the cutter to withdraw enough to clear the face of the sole. And, the chip breaker doesn't sit cleanly up against the cutter, allowing chips to clog up. I suspect this plane was bastardized years ago with miscellaneous parts (?). I'll probably touch it up some more, but for now I've seen enough of it.

Oh well, will have to look more closely next time (?). I don't know how serviceable it will be, kinda disappointed, but it looks better on the shelf than before and for only $5 what the heck.... it was worth the learning experience.

Jim Koepke
07-03-2015, 10:28 AM
the chip breaker doesn't sit cleanly up against the cutter, allowing chips to clog up.

This can be corrected with a little bit of work.

It also sounds like you may have an incorrect chip breaker. This happens a lot if someone who doesn't know about planes gets them mixed up.

It does look good.

jtk

Mark Greenbaum
07-03-2015, 10:43 AM
Forgive me for being a novice to these matters, but: Can the sole of the plane be flattened on wet dry sandpaper on granite to make sure it's flat? Same as you can sharpen the iron?

I have a few of my Dad's old planes, and they're not much as collector items, but I love to use them. Much easier than setting up a router for sure.

Jim Koepke
07-03-2015, 10:49 AM
Forgive me for being a novice to these matters, but: Can the sole of the plane be flattened on wet dry sandpaper on granite to make sure it's flat? Same as you can sharpen the iron?

I have a few of my Dad's old planes, and they're not much as collector items, but I love to use them. Much easier than setting up a router for sure.

Mark, the best answer to your question is one should make sure there is a problem with the sole of the plane before attempting to flatten it.

If the plane is working well and with a sharp blade can be adjusted to take thin shavings, the sole is probably fine as is.

It is possible to lap the sole as you suggest. The process, if not done carefully, can create more problems.

jtk

Phil Mueller
07-03-2015, 11:20 AM
I tend to run it back and forth a few times on very fine sandpaper-800 or 1000 grit- just to see if there are any major issues...if not, let it be.

Stew Denton
07-03-2015, 12:41 PM
Hi Al,

Your plane looks drastically better. It also sounds like you are fighting someone else's Frankenplane efforts. +1 on what Jim said about the cause of your battles. I had an Ohio #4 that belonged to my grandfather, it had a Stanley iron, chip breaker, and lever cap, and would not work even moderately well as was. It also had only an old carriage bolt for a tote. I had to get the original parts before it would adjust correctly, and also a replacement tote and bolt. Even so, it has a tapered iron, and as such is kind of a pain to adjust. From what Table Saw Tom has written about the old Ohio planes, this is apparently a common complaint.

With your Union, it should be easier to get parts for it than I had with the Ohio. If the plane was not my grandfathers, it would not have been worth the cost and effort. I clearly have more in the plane than it is worth, but because of the family history, I had made the decision to restore it even though it was going to cost more for the parts than the plane is worth. I don't think the old Ohio planes are worth much. Now that it is done, it is a serviceable plane, but the adjustments and sharpening the iron are not as handy as on a Stanley, but because of the history, it is a privilege for me to have and use the plane.

On the other hand, once you get your plane finished, especially if you can find the original parts, you should end up with a pretty good and useful plane, from what I have heard.

I found the parts for my old Ohio on Ebay, but even ended up buying an entire plane and robbing from it to get the correct parts. There aren't many of the old Ohio bench planes, and even fewer of the type I have.

Your Union is a much more common plane. If you wait long enough you should be able to find the parts and should end up with a really good plane.

Again, the efforts you have made to restore it look great. If the iron is pitted down on the business end, it can still be a reasonably good iron for fore plane use, as the iron for that use doesn't need to be as razor sharp at the smoothing or jointer plane irons.

I think the Union planes take a Stanley pattern iron, so finding a better iron for it should not be a problem, again on Ebay, or from one of the plane parts suppliers. You can check the iron against a Stanley. Guys like Jim, above, or one of the other Neanders, may know about the type of irons it takes just from their experience. I don't, and only know about the planes I use, which are mostly Stanley planes.

Regards,

Stew

paul cottingham
07-03-2015, 1:42 PM
If the bottom is flat (enough) an aftermarket blade and chipbreaker should help a great deal. You may need to work the bed a little, as well. The nice thing is you can use the blade and chipbreaker in other planes as well.