Any advice on a particular brand of geometry of CBN wheels? Trying one more time.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Hey all,

After a long long dry spell I am finally getting some turning time in again. My twins are now 4 years old and well they have finally crossed the line into being somewhat self-sufficient. In that they play with toys and each other rather than needing their mom and I 24x7.

I tried to sharpen my tools and well I find that my hard won skills and setups are now gone and/or out of tune. At the Utah symposium a few years ago I saw CBN wheels demonstrated and they looked great. So after taking a relatively sharp skew and using it and then trying to put an edge on it and turning it into a butter knife I am once again trying to crack this nut.

To that end I am looking to upgrade my Woodcraft slow speed grinder with a set of CBN wheels. I have scoured the creek and found a number of references to several different wheel types. Some have radiused edges, some have wider widths, some come from stores/major vendors and others from people with experu\ience way beyond mine, etc...

Like everyone else I have poured money into this particular vortex and I would really like to spend just a touch more and try to just be done with the whole sharpening problem. I spent money on balancers and bought sticky dots to try to and shim wheels etc... I thought I had this dialed in but as I said above I am dulling tools on the grinder rather than on the wood and that is just sad... Getting something that runs truer and is much much closer to balanced would I think finally get me where I want to be with sharpening my tools.

But as with everything else there are ioptions with different wheel geometries and brands does any of it reall matter?

I have seen tons of posts about how awesome CBN is, so I am not looking to be convinced. Rather I am interested in recommendations on the common options and why they are being recommended. I saw Robo Hippy's post about trying 3 different brands and seeing no real difference in how they cut. So how about how true they ran and how about the radiused edge versus not with just the wide flat edge? And how about the CBN down the side of the wheel?

And I suppose how about grits? I was thinking about 2 wheels. An 80 for shaping and scrapers and something higher for putting a really nice edge on a skew and other tools for finishing cuts.

I would love any advice my fellow creekers might like to share.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Eric Gourieux]

I purchased 80 and 180 grit wheels from D-way before the radiused wheels were available. The are great wheels. I would recommend 1.5" width. Since i have only used the D-way wheels, I can only reference them. They run true and the bushings, if needed, are a great fit. If I were to purchase them again, I would probably go for the radiused wheels from D-way. I would also consider the wheels from Woodturningwonders.com, particularly when purchasing 2 wheels. He has great prices, but I have read about some balance issues that seem to eventually get resolved with some adjustment

[Ralph Lindberg]

We only have a D-Way 180, the other side of the grinder is a good friable wheel.
I use the friable to reshape and the CBN to sharpen everything. A finer wheel will give a better edge for a scrapper.
Even with the 180 I hone, skews and gouges. I know people that even hone the scraper after it comes off their 180 CBN.
...OK hone flat and level, then use a jig to get a perfect burr.

[Roger Chandler]

Joshua.......I had one 180 grit 1.5" cbn wheel from D-way and it was a superb experience. I recently upgraded to a new lathe and a new industrial grinder, so I got two cbn wheels from the Woodturning Store........and saved a pile of $$$. I got both the 80 and 180 grits, and in the 1.5" width, both having the flat and then grit matrix down on the edge of the wheel as well, for sharpening tool bits.

I got the direct bore 5/8" hole that fits my grinder shaft, and do not need any bushings of any type, which allows for the wheels to run true..........I currently have the best sharpening setup I have ever owned for wood turning tools. I paid $169 for each wheel. I am not sure what the radius configuration would do vs. the flat, but I am VERY happy with the setup I now have. I even sold the used D-Way wheel to a friend, as it was about two years old and had plenty of life in it. He reports that his sharpening has dramatically improved, and had no idea how much difference this makes to his efforts.........he had just been using aluminum oxide wheels, and now his cuts are much smoother with a lot less tearout.

[William C Rogers]

I bought the Hurricane 1.5" 180 wheel and no problems at all. I have the same grinder. I only bought one CBN as I have a few non- HSS tools and use the other side for those tools with the white wheels. Mine has the square side with a 1/4" side grind. The CBN is fantastic compared to the white wheels. Runs very true and really like the width.

[Thom Sturgill]

I bought a D-Way 180 flat faced wheel before he introduced the radiused edge. I bought one of Ken's new wheels - 350 grit radiused edges and about an inch of media on each side. The idea was that that was almost honing. I do not see as much difference in the surface to warrant the grit difference, but both work well. The Wood Turners Wonders wheel is considerable heavier due to the sides. The radius is for sharpening those little HSS cutters used when hollowing, so not everyone needs them.

Dave's insert worked better than the 5/8" opening in Ken's wheel. It had just enough play that I had to use spherical washers to get it balanced and running true.

[Pat Scott]

I got a 180 grit radius wheel from WoodTurners Wonders a couple of months ago. It was a group buy through my club, and for $130 I couldn't pass it up.
I haven't used the radiused edge yet and doubt I will for the tools that I have. Even though it's a 1.5" wide wheel (which I really like compared to my AO wheel), the flat area is only 1" wide because you have 1/4" on each side for the radius. The wheel is great and works well, but I wonder if the D-Way wheel with square corner would buy me anything for the tools that I have. But, that wheel is $100 more so I'm plenty good with what I have.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Even those of us who sharpen a lot of hollowing tools may not need the radius wheels. If your cutting tips are glued into their bars, as they would be if you have Ellsworth hollowing tools, the radius is a must. David teaches to sharpen on that radius since you are holding the bar and cutter together. He merely sharpens the right side of the cutter on the left side of the wheel and vice versa. My cutting bits are held in with a set screw so I can remove them and hold them in a jig made by John Jacobs. I use non-radius CBN wheels.

[Dennis Ford]

I also have only one CBN wheel (180 grit), like it a lot. Mine is flat with grit on one edge. I use that square corner for sharpening drill bits. Not sure if I would use the radius edge but don't have that so can't be sure. I do recommend the wide wheels, have not tried multiple brands (or heard any bad reviews) so can not recommend one brand over another.

[Reed Gray]

Joshua,
I wrote this up a while back, and answers just about every question I have ever seen about CBN wheels.

http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/

I only have the straight edged wheels. I don't really see any need for the flat side grind option, but in talking to Dave Schweitzer, he said the carvers like them for that type of chisel. I do have a set of the radius edge wheels, but almost never use them. Yes, they work for hollowing bits, but I can't see using them for any thing else.

robo hippy

[Brian Kent]

Post moved to new thread.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

I have come back and read this thread a number of times. I just did again as I get ready to make the purchase. Seems that once my twins got old enough to give me some space work interfered. But I have gotten the chance to turn a few times lately and have really had some fun. So I am finally, I hope and pray, ready to make the purchase. :)

Thanks to one and all for the replies and for sharing your own experiences.

Joshua

[Bill Zickel]

Joshua,

We purchase Diamond and CBN wheels from a company called Molemab. This is a European company with offices and warehouses in the USA and Canada. Very happy with the quality and price.

Here is a link. http://www.molemab.com/

Bill

[Clay Fails]

Does anyone have any experience with the higher grit Woodturners Wonders CBN wheels (350,600,1000)? I have DWay's 80 and 180 on an 8 inch Baldor grinder at 1750 rpm, and am very pleased with that setup. But i can't help but wonder what a bowl gouge edge would look like coming off a 1000 grit CBN wheel. Thanks for any input on this.

[Reed Gray]

Clay, I have both the 600 and 1000 grit from Ken Rizza. The edges are excellent for finish cuts with gouges, and the burrs they make for shear scraping. They will leave a cleaner surface than the same tool sharpened on 180 grit. The 180 works for most situations, but for really soft woods, or woods that are more prone to tear out, they excel. I did like the surface I got on my skew with them, but that is a tool I still am not too accomplished with. I did find that even with the 1000 grit wheel, I had to hone the burr from one side to the other, and my hand honing skills are some what lacking. The skew would cut fine in one direction, but not in the other till I honed the burr over to the other side, but the burr never seemed to go away. I couldn't tell that it made any real difference on the NRS (negative rake scrapers). Those same edges are not very durable for heavy roughing. Still in 'testing' phase, but I will include them in my testing with loading and micro photography next year some time. Some times I think the 1000 grit wants to load up a bit, but I can't tell for sure. It does still cut fine, and I use the Trend Lapping fluid on the wheels to keep them clean. I haven't tried the 320 or what ever grit comes after 180.

robo hippy

[Clay Fails]

Clay, I have both the 600 and 1000 grit from Ken Rizza. The edges are excellent for finish cuts with gouges, and the burrs they make for shear scraping. They will leave a cleaner surface than the same tool sharpened on 180 grit. The 180 works for most situations, but for really soft woods, or woods that are more prone to tear out, they excel. I did like the surface I got on my skew with them, but that is a tool I still am not too accomplished with. I did find that even with the 1000 grit wheel, I had to hone the burr from one side to the other, and my hand honing skills are some what lacking. The skew would cut fine in one direction, but not in the other till I honed the burr over to the other side, but the burr never seemed to go away. I couldn't tell that it made any real difference on the NRS (negative rake scrapers). Those same edges are not very durable for heavy roughing. Still in 'testing' phase, but I will include them in my testing with loading and micro photography next year some time. Some times I think the 1000 grit wants to load up a bit, but I can't tell for sure. It does still cut fine, and I use the Trend Lapping fluid on the wheels to keep them clean. I haven't tried the 320 or what ever grit comes after 180.

robo hippy

Thanks for the input Robo. I think the finer CBN wheels might be worth a try for me. "sharpness" is a relative place, and I seem to always be in the hunt for "sharper". If i end up pulling the trigger on these finer CBN wheels I will post my thoughts after gaining some experience. In the meantime, I keep turning!

[John K Jordan]

Does anyone have any experience with the higher grit Woodturners Wonders CBN wheels (350,600,1000)? I have DWay's 80 and 180 on an 8 inch Baldor grinder at 1750 rpm, and am very pleased with that setup. But i can't help but wonder what a bowl gouge edge would look like coming off a 1000 grit CBN wheel. Thanks for any input on this.

Clay,

I have two of Ken Rizza's 600 grit wheels, one on a 1/2 speed grinder and one on a Tormek. I also have an 80 grit and a 180 on 1/2 speed grinders.

I do like the 600 grit wheels, but based on my experience and the way I like my tools, I too am thinking about getting a finer wheel.

I use the Tormek for my spindle gouges. I sharpen bowl gouges on the 600 grit wheel on the grinder using a wolverine varigrind jig, then knock off the burr with the Tormek leather honing wheel. I'm happy with that edge for bowls.

I usually sharpen skews, roughing gouges, parting tools, etc. freehand, all on the 600 grit. BTW, I do not grind scrapers to get a burr - I grind as smooth as possible then raise a burr with a carbide burnishing tool. Because of this, I only use coarser wheels for shaping.

I like my spindle gouges well honed so I polish them on the Tormek's leather wheel. The 600 grit works OK for that but the original Tormek water wheel gave me a finer grind than the 600 grit. (I just hated the time and trouble of messing with the water) Because of that, I'm seriously thinking about getting a 1000 grit wheel to try. Reed Grey got one awhile back - I wish I lived closer so I could go over and try it. You might ask him for his latest thoughts.

In fact, I'm debating about going to a 1200 grit wheel for either the Tormek or the 1/2 speed grinder. The wheels for the Tormek are a bit pricey to experiment with though, so I'm still thinking about it. I don't know of anyone who has a 1200 wheel - if anyone does, maybe they will comment..

JKJ