1954 Gibson Historic reissue Les Paul guitar

[george wilson]

I have a dead mint 1954 Gibson Historic Shop reissue black Les Paul guitar with the staple magnet (Alnico 5) neck pickup. It has a factory installed Bigsby vibrato with a Tuneamatic(sp?) bridge. All gold plated.

John C. might could answer this question. I have no interest in Les Paul guitar lore,and know little about it since I prefer Gretsch guitar sound.

Is there anything wrong with having a FACTORY installed Bigsby vibrato on this guitar? Was it not done originally? Does the vibrato decrease the value of this guitar,or make it undesirable?

I don't play this guitar,or any other any more due to my right thumb joint being worn out from finger style and flamenco guitar playing since 1952. Very painful to keep using the thumb. I was considering thinning out my collection some. This is probably the most beautiful solid body type guitar ever made,but I really don't need it(or quite a few other guitars I have!). Any idea of the value? There is not a single mark on this guitar,and I might have played it for 1/2 hour.

[John Coloccia]

What year is the guitar? I have some price guides here. Maybe I can look it up.I do believe that indeed you could get them with a factory installed Bigsby in 54, though early Bigsbys were different than what you can buy today. I'm not sure what it does to the price. On the one hand, they're rarer, but the reason is that they're generally less desirable. It will be a matter of finding the right buyer. I believe it tends to reduce the price a little on an actual vintage guitar, but the non-vintage market is completely different and somewhat follows the new market. For example, prices on Gibsons have gone up so drastically that I sold my 335 for just a bit less than I bought it for, and that was less than 10 years later. It WAS a rare color, but I still got a lot more for it than I had any right to expect.

[george wilson]

The early Bigsbys had aluminum handles. I can look on the guitar and give you a serial number,from which I suppose you can derive the date of mfg..

O.K.,the serial is 4 9064,spaced like I typed it. I bought it in 2000. Before that,a dentist had kept it in his office just to look at!! I don't know how long he kept it,though. The paper was still on the pick guard. It had never been played at all. No marks on the frets what so ever. It has the thick 1950's neck.

Thanks for getting into this thread,John.

[John Coloccia]

Hmm....strange serial number. I'm going to have to dig out my Gruhn's guide. I have a feeling it's going to 90s, but we'll see when I track it down...maybe later tonight if I get around to it. :) I think the 4 is 1994...9 would be 1999, 02 would be 2002. That's my very vague recollection how that series of numbers went, but I'm really not an expert on this. There are a lot of cobwebs in my brain on this topic at the moment.

edit: meant to say 90s...not 80s

[george wilson]

I will wait for your answers,John. I think these guitars now go for about $4000.00 now,retail,I mean.

I used to be pretty up on prices for vintage Gretsch guitars,and subscribed to the Vintage News. For some years now I have stopped collecting,and playing too. I need to get surgery on my thumb,but have been putting it off.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

George,

Check this out from Gibson website:


Gibson Custom
1952-1960 Les Paul, Explorer, Flying V, and Futura reissues (since late 1992):
M YRRR or MYRRRR
M is the model year being reissued
Y is the production year
RRR(R) indicates the guitar's place production for that year. NOTE: This number includes all models for a particular reissue year - so, for example, a 1958 Reissue serial number may include '58 Reissue LP Standard and '58 Explorer production.

Example: 7 5123 is the 123rd 1957 reissue model produced in 2005.

1961-1969 Firebird, Les Paul, and SG reissues (since 1997):
YYRRRM
Y is the production year
RRR(R) indicates the guitar's place in production for that year.
M is the model being reissued
Reissue model codes:
1= SG Custom and Special
2= SG Standard
3= 1963 Firebird 1
4= 1964 Firebird III
5= 1965 Firebird V & VII
8= 1968 Les Paul Custom


Based on the bold faced information, since you bought it in 2000, I would suggest it was a 1954 reissue, built in 1999 since that serial number format was used since 1992.

[John Coloccia]

I actually just came back on to post what Ken just posted! The numbering scheme I mentioned stopped in '92.

[george wilson]

I bought it USED in 2000.

[John Coloccia]

So part of the problem with coming up with a value on something like this is that they're actually relatively rare. I have nothing in my latest vintage reference....only gold tops with P-90s for that model. As a complete guess, based on what little I can find on it, I'd wager anywhere between $2000 and $4000 (my best guess would be about $2500 for an actual street price). I know that's a huge range, and even that may not be particularly accurate. I'd bet that in practice, prices are all over the map depending on how motivated the buyer is.

I wish I could be more helpful. Normally I'm resourceful enough to do better, but you should really get a professional appraiser to appraise it or you'll either give it away, or it will sit for months without selling. These guys are the best in the biz. It will cost you $50, but they'll get it right.

https://guitars.com/appraisals

George Gruhn is the undisputed master of identifying and appraising guitars. If you go this route, tell them that you're really looking for a street price because you want to sell the thing, not some insurance appraisal. My guess is he'll scratch his head a little too, but he'll have a more accurate range.

Incidentally, my price guide indicates that a factory Bigsby on an actual Vintage LP (50s) reduces the price about 30%. That seems high to me, but that's what my price guide claims. Of course, this has no bearing on your guitar. I just found it interesting.

[John Coloccia]

I bought it USED in 2000.

I don't think the dentist had it very long. :) Gruhn will straighten it all out for sure, though. He really is the best.

If you want, pop off the switch plate and post the code off the pots. There will be a date code in there. I'll bet it's either '98 or '99.

[Shawn Pixley]

You shouldn't have trouble selling it. Most people wouldn't want the Bigsby. But the original '54 had the non-tune-o-matic which isn't nearly as desireable as the TOM. I have a '57 Black Beauty reissue with P90's. Great guitar.

[george wilson]

I appreciate the help you guys are giving me. I had been thinking about asking $3000.00 for it if I decide to sell it. But,that's just my own idea,not based on any factual value. I think that would be a $1000.00 saving for someone who wanted one in mint condition.

[george wilson]

I know Gruhn very well. I visited him in his shop when I was asked to come to the Nashville Hall of Fame to evaluate their plans to make an instrument repair shop. I think I'll leave him out of it.
They sent me a Gibson Super 400 some time later,knowing very well who I was. It was advertised as in excellent condition and priced accordingly.

The guitar REEKED of pot,and obviously had been dropped badly on the lower bout and had about 7 or 8 long cracks about 8" long. Then they told me I was being too particular. It cost me $75.00 to get the guitar sent to me in the first place. Finally I got them to pay for the return shipping,which they agreed to "If everything I said was wrong with the guitar was true". Well,I suppose they found out it was true.

The result was they took me off their mailing list,and I somehow found out they billed UPS for damage in shipping,which was an outright lie. Those cracks were old and dirty.

Subsequently,I ordered a Super 400 advertised by Mandolin Brothers as minty,and it was as advertised. And,the price was exactly the same.

Then,some years later,Ghrun got involved in a big legal problem from selling fake old Les Pauls for huge money that he swore he did not detect.(Some expert). I think some guy in Florida was taking new Les Pauls and aging them. The whole affair smelled to high Heaven.

Gruhn knows who I am,and nods to me at guitar shows,but I have had no further dealings with him.

[John Coloccia]

Well, here's a 1999 R4 (without Bigsby) that looks like it sold for $3000, so I think we have the general range about right, and it's just going to be about finding that right buyer that wants your exact guitar.https://reverb.com/item/496044-1999-r4-gibson-les-paul-custom-54-reissueI tell you, I'm really fascinated by how the market tends to price things. A vintage 50s Les Paul might sell for $15,000, but if it has PAF pickups? Oh, $100,000 or more. Mind blowing.I hadn't heard that about Gruhn. There's no way he doesn't spot a fake LP. Even the good fakes are usually easy to spot, and there are not very many good fakes.

[george wilson]

Yes,I am highly suspicious about that whole fake LP thing. New lacquer just doesn't look like old lacquer. I can easily tell the difference in how it has shrunk,crazed,etc.,and just has a different sheen about it. I just do not see how an experienced person could not have spotted it. But,I am not just a babe in the woods myself.

I just saw a pair of PAF pickups for sale for $10,000.00. It was on some LP forum I was exploring. Just plain crazy stuff.

I just looked at the guitar you referenced,John. Mine has gold plated Grover rotomatics.
I haven't used them since the 60's myself. For many years I built only classicals and flamenco guitars. And,of course,in the museum we only used wooden pegs.

[Mike Langford]

Wow, the reissue John posted has had a lot of parts changed on it and he still got $3000 for it!
It's been refretted, the tuners changed, new wiring and pots/caps, bridge pickup is changed, tail piece and bridge is changed, new nut......
George, if your's is all original you should ask more for your's.

[Rob Luter]

Hi George -

Your guitar is part of the Gibson Historic line. The serial number indicates that it is a 1954 Historic reissue, built in 1999, and the 64th built. I own three historic Les Pauls ( '56, '57 Custom, and '58) and the numbering scheme is the same for those. The '54 Custom reissues were produced both with and without Bigsbys at the factory. Those produced with the Bigsby are generally considered the more "Deluxe" variants. That said, not everybody likes a Bigsby.

The good folks at Gibson customer service will probably verify all this for you. I've had good luck getting them to respond to questions. It generally takes a couple days, but they'll return your email.