Planer, Jointer, or both?

[Ben Gunter]

Hi all,

1st time posting and many questions, but I'll try to be brief. I'm a relatively new woodworker, but looking to get a solid home shop set up. I have decent variety of tools, but I'm lacking the "big" power tools. (I have a table saw and router table). What I feel I need most is a planer, jointer, maybe both, or a combo jointer/planer. I have a rough budget for these tools ($500-1500 for both), but the range of options is overwhelming. I'm in a woodworking program at Red Rocks CC (in Denver) and I'll build mostly typical furniture. I'm not opposed to spending on the higher side of my budget in the interest of an "investment" tool.

So, here's my question: What would y'all recommend for a relative beginner? I'm thinking at least a planer first.

Also, any thoughts on the "deal" that this link is? It's a 16" Makita Planer 2040 for $800.

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5017112585.html

I really appreciate any thoughts and advice!

Thanks,
Ben

[Rick Fisher]

That is a really decent planer. If I where looking at buying that machine, I would inspect the rubber rollers, ensure they are in decent shape. ( read the ad, see that he says they are in good shape, I would still inspect. but that is a nice machine )

I sold those 25 years ago to retail customers. Its a great example of how little power a planer uses when the knives are sharp. Its 120V and plugs in the wall, takes lighter passes than a more modern planer, but a really well built and capable machine.


That machine will hold its resale value if cared for, I remember them being $1600 new .. The 12" combo was about $2000 I would probably offer $600 .. see what happens.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Definitely planer before jointer. You can make jigs to use a planer for face jointing and the tablesaw or router for edge jointing. But it doesn't work the other way around.

I think the planer/jointer units are great because you get a planer and jointer that are the same with and saves some floor space. The downside is the planer setup gets disturbed every time you switch back and forth. With two separate machines, the planer stays setup all the time and stays set where you last used it. A great benefit if you need just one more piece exactly "that" thick and you only have stock that needs to be jointed.

Looks like the Makita planer in your link is clean and rust free. I would take a piece of lumber with you and see if you can test drive it. It does appear (by the photos) it does not have native dust collection, so be prepared to spend some time fabricated a hood for dust collection.

[Allan Speers]

Definitely a planer first, as explained by Anthony.

Personally, I wouldn't get that Makita. I upgraded to a stationary planer this year, and did tons of research.
That line of Makita tools were really well made, and this particular planer is said to give an excellent finish, but it has a number of drawbacks:

It uses a lowish-powered universal motor, so it will be noisy and you must work slowly.

The rollers are known to get gummy and need replacement.

Blade changing is said to be difficult.

AFAIK, there is no Byrd head available for it.
--------

If you are still considering that 2040, offer him $500. I saw at least 4-5 of them come up over several months, and none sold for more than that, even in great condition.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Does Makita still make these? If not, replacement parts would be a concern.

To the OP, I hate to do this to you. But here's my advice. It seems to me that you are past the early phase of the hobby, where people are usually trying to figure out whether the hobby is going to "stick." Once you're past that phase, my advise is to save your pennies and buy once/cry once. It's death by a thousand paper cuts if you buy cheaper machines and keep selling and trading up. Much less costly to just buy your final machine first.

When people are in that first phase, I usually advise them to buy used machines... because they seem to only depreciate once. In other words, assuming you buy them at a fair price and you maintain them well, you should be able to sell them for what you paid.

As for which machines to buy if you take my advice... Assuming you're budget conscious and space-constrained, it's tough to beat the combination jointer/planer machines. Two things I like most about them, aside from obvious benefit of space savings:

1) Your jointer and planer are the same width. I started with a 15" planer and a 6" jointer and quickly realized that either my planer was way too big, or my jointer was way too small. Of course I concluded the latter. :) For most milling operations, you need to face joint and face plane your pieces. So what good is a jointer with a smaller capacity than your planer? With that setup, you're left to building, using, and storing a planer sled for face jointing. Not the end of the world, but a bit inconvenient in my opinion.

2) Since you only have one cutter head, spiral/shelix style cutterheads become much more affordable.

So my advice is to wait, be patient, and save your money for a good combo machine.

[glenn bradley]

If I could only have one it would be a planer. I used a planer sled to face joint for quite awhile before I got things arrange to shoehorn a large jointer into the shop.

[John Schweikert]

I think people who only survived with a planer for a long period just want other people to endure the same suffering. Buy both machines or buy a combo. A planer sled in no way fulfills the true capability of a jointer which is to flatten one face and then make a perfect 90 degree edge to that face, easily and efficiently. Then you can run the wood through your planer and final edge on the table saw. Simple.

[Ben Gunter]

Thanks all for the advice!

I'm definitely passed the early phase of the hobby. I hope/intend on this eventually being a career, or at the very least a life-long hobby. I would for sure like to avoid buying multiple machines over the next few 5-10 years. I may not be able to make that final purchase, but I'd like to at least get something that will give me a solid start. I appreciate the "tough love" and think that's good advice.

I should probably note: I'll be building the Split Top Roubo w/plans from Benchcrafted this summer. While I already needed a planer, this gives me a great reason to purchase tools that will not force me to hand plane 150-200 bf of maple, ash, etc.

Any thoughts on bench-top planers? I've seen this one mentioned in prior posts, so I'll ask about it specifically: Makita 2012NB?

[Jim Matthews]

Rather than build the top for the Roubo, several purveyors offer ready made slabs.

Unless you're getting the lumber for free - it may be cheaper to buy a ready made top.
They take care of the tedious aspects in Bench making, leaving you free to manage the fun parts.

I've been at this for a little more than 4 years - and can honestly say there is no
other project that requires this much lamination.


http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31154&cat=1,41637

If you're felling your own trees, sawing and drying on your own, a planer is a must have tool.
If not, most lumberyards will offer to prepare your boards to your requested dimensions.

It might cost a little more to have lumber prepped for you, but it works out to be less
expensive than owning a planer for occasional use.

That said, if you're still set on owning one -

Most any inexpensive lunchbox planer is a good choice today.
Check the price of replacement blades, first.

That's the hidden cost in these machines.

I would not recommend any used 4 post machines.
One broken part, defunct motor or missing gimcrack
will render your bargain more expensive than a new machine.

What is the widest board you really imagine running through a planer?
Width comes at a premium, upfront and when you buy blades.

http://www.bestplaners.com/

[David Ragan]

Hi all,
I'm in a woodworking program at Red Rocks CC (in Denver) and I'll build mostly typical furniture..

Thanks,
Ben

Dude, I lived in Denver in the 80s. I am sooo jealous. You have Red Rocks. Great place to see and hear concerts, with Denver in the background.

then you have Boulder up the hwy.

Then you have Buffalo Bill's grave and the famous Mother Cabrini Shrine.

that's just in the summer......

Enjoy whilst I eat my heart out!

(Good luck on your equipment-sounds fabulous.)

[John Schweikert]

Ben,

I have a Dewalt 733 planer now going on 15 years. I now use it for much rougher stock or even reclaimed wood and have a newer Makita 2012NB for finish planing. Both work great. I made a jig to sharpen the Dewalt blades myself. The 733 allows that, newer Dewalts may not. These two planers are a little different in feature implementation but get to the same end result. There are pluses and minuses to each but nothing that would keep me from buying and using them. The Makita is a little quieter, but any lunchbox planer is louder than the four post induction motor planers.

With father's day coming soon, almost all the lunchbox planer tool companies have some sort of discount, so it's a good time to buy. You would be plenty happy with the Makita.

[Steve Kinnaird]

For an affordable price the DeWalt 735X is a nice 13" planer with 3 knives.
I strongly recommend getting 3 knives for cleaner planing.
As for a jointer.
Table top is ok, but Grizzly has a 6" floor model with 3 knives for just over $500 with shipping. The longer deck makes it easier to work with.

All the best to your adventures!

[Dennis Ford]

I agree with getting planer before jointer (not the way I did it but it should have been). My jointer is a 6" Grizzly (many years old), a good machine but I sometimes wish for an 8" with a longer bed. My planer is a 15" Grizzly (several years old and I still love it), all the planer I am likely to need; it is far more capable than the Delta lunchbox planer that I had before.

[Allan Speers]

I think people who only survived with a planer for a long period just want other people to endure the same suffering. Buy both machines or buy a combo. A planer sled in no way fulfills the true capability of a jointer which is to flatten one face and then make a perfect 90 degree edge to that face, easily and efficiently. Then you can run the wood through your planer and final edge on the table saw. Simple.


A properly designed planer sled actually works better than a jointer for face jointing, but it takes longer to use. One just has to do a little research and pick the design that works best for them.

As for edge jointing, that's why God invented track-mounted routers.

Only pros, for whom time is money, and hobbyists who have never actually used a sled, say that jointers are a must-have tool.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I own a Dewalt 735, purchased it for about $350 on Craigs List some years back. Love the machine, but if money and space were no object I would have something bigger / larger.

I have never used a jointer. If I had room for one I would own one. I barely have room for the planer. The planer sled gets the job done, but, especially for a long piece of wood, it can be especially annoying. One might argue that it may is more accurate than than a jointer since then you have a limited infeed table length, but, when I drop on an 8' long board, things start to get heavy.

Again, never having used a jointer, I do not know how they compare, but, I don't care for the transition and annoyance of using the sled. Not having used one of the combination devices, I can't speak to how quickly and easily one can bounce between the different modes.

If you start with a planer, then you can see how you like the sled and if it works for you, then you have no need to spend the money (and use the space) on a jointer.

[Allan Speers]

I started with a 15" planer and a 6" jointer and quickly realized that either my planer was way too big, or my jointer was way too small. Of course I concluded the latter. :) For most milling operations, you need to face joint and face plane your pieces. So what good is a jointer with a smaller capacity than your planer? .

Peter, it is really no problem if your jointer is only abour 2/3 the width of your planer. - Say 13" and 8"

I'm not even talking now about a planing sled: All you have to do is remove the jointer's blade guard, joint the full 8" or whatever, then run that board through your planer with a simple flat, 8" wide board under the just- jointer face. That gives you a dead-flat surface on the other side.

Flip the board, run it through the planer to even out the side you first jointed, and you're done.

[Jim Becker]

I'm a fan of a quality J/P combo for the benefits of both planer and jointer in a space efficient way. But I agree with most of the others that if you can only get one function now, the planer is the way to go. With a proper jig you can flatten faces and there are various ways to get a straight edge that is perpendicular to the faces that don't involve the jointer. I actually almost never use my J/P for edge jointing...I have a slider that takes care of that once I've flattened and thicknessed boards with the J/P.