ShopSmith as Lathe- What are the specific weaknesses?

[Allan Speers]

I'm still on the fence about a local SawStop 10ER, available for $100 or maybe even less at this point. As I've previously posted, I'd ONLY be using it for drilling / horizontal boring, and very occasional lathe work. I've done a ton of research and thinking, and I REALLY like what it can become (after a few mods) as a drill press. However, since I've never used a lathe, I'm having a had time assessing it. If I ask on some ShopSmith forum, I will of course get glowing comments, but I want to know about the specific limitations.

In other words: If you looked at your favorite lathe, and then looked at a 10ER with universal morse-taper fittings on both ends and a 1.5 HP vari-speed DC motor, what would you still prefer on your machine?
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Here's where I'm at right now:

I'd get the 10ER because it has a lot of cast iron, whereas the Mark V does not. Also, the 10ER has double spindle bearings, and it's easy to replace them with high quality modern ones like Nachi.

The work length is great. The swing is limiting for large bowls, but I don't intend to turn large bowls.

The speed is too high, with the minimum being about 850 rpm, but that's also true for drilling, so I will at first simply lower the overall pulley ratio, then eventually retrofit a 1.5 HP - 2 HP DC motor. - Then I'll also have all the power I could ever want.

It's not very heavy. OK, but I coudl either add cement blocks to the stand, or bolt it to the floor, no?

Tailstock: I can get an aftermarket live center, or I can get an adapter an then use a Oneway system with the interchangeable points.

Headstock: There is a modern MT #2 retrofit available, plus 2 different compatible chucks, plus an adapter for other manufacturer's chucks, so I don't see a problem there.

So far, I'm not seeing a huge problem, but I get the nagging feelign that I'm overlooking something important.

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Bigger issues:

1: The banjo is said to not lock very securely. Is this a HUGE problem? Shopsmith makes a really fine new style banjo that even swing into the center of a bowl, but it's $200. That's a lot considering how much I'd already be spending on this thing.

2: I've read that the 5/8" spindle is a little undersized for heavy work. Seeing as typically higher end lathes have spindles at around 1.25" - 1.5" I guess this does concern me. In fact, it's my #1 concern. However, if I'm just turning table legs, should I still be concerned?

- I've also read that the spindle is a little weak to be used with the DP and a morticing attachment. However, the machine I'm looking at HAS a nice morticing attachment, the original owner made two houses worth of furniture with it, and that spindle is still dead straight, so I'm wondering how much of these negative comments are more snob-factor and less actual empirical problems?

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Well, any and all thoughts would sure be appreciated.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have a SawStop, and a ShopSmith. And a Jet 1642. I'm no way a ShopSmith basher, I think they are wonderful machines, given the built in limitations. BUT, before you plink down some serious dollars to get the lathe portion up to speed, so to speak, I'd seriously consider getting a midi-lathe instead. 200 bucks here, a hundred here and there, all add up, and you already are aware of the limitations on the lathe, largely being the 850 or so lowest speed setting. I can say that turning anything unbalanced over 6" in diameter is quite exciting. I recently picked up a used Jet mini 10" for 200 bucks, I see 12" Rikons too. IF you're sticking to table legs, then you're okay, BUT you probably will get bitten and want to turn something larger...... Eventually....... Get the ShopSmith, but get it for the right reasons. Is it an okay lathe, given the limitations.... You can turn lots of things, provided it's sort of balanced to start.

[William C Rogers]

I have a Shopsmith V 510. It was the only saw/lathe I had for a long time and used mainly as a saw. The first time I tried to turn a small bowl it came loose and scared the heck out of me, and didn't try turning for about a year. Then I bought the pen mandrel and turned a couple of pens. Since I liked turning pens at pens at the time I got a delta midi lathe. Since I have acquired a jet midi and a PM 90. There is a world of difference between the shopsmith and these lathes. The shopsmith was in storage for 7-8 years and I recently got it out. Not for a lathe, but for the disk sanding. I had two disk so one on each end with different grits. I may even make it a stubby (shorten up).
if you want the 10er buy it as it will be a great disk sander. You can try it as a lathe, but I would not invest one nickel in upgrading the lathe functions. However you would be hard pressed to find a better 12" sander. If the mortising works that would be a added bonus. Using mine as a DP locking the head was not as robust as I would have liked.

[John Coloccia]

I definitely wouldn't use a SawStop as a lathe. :rolleyes:

[daryl moses]

I definitely wouldn't use a SawStop as a lathe. :rolleyes:
LOL, I don't think it would be very wise either.;)

[Jim Underwood]

I just couldn't imagine how one was going to use a SawStop as a lathe. Just couldn't envision... my brain was breaking up.... :confused:

[Mark Greenbaum]

I think you are really referring to a SHOPSMITH not a SawStop. I purchase an old Greenie for $250, and have spent over $1000 for accessories, parts, new powerhead (1990 to replace the rebuilt twice 1955), attachments, and lathe components. If all you want is to turn wood, buy a dedicated lathe. Used Mini's Midi's, etc, can be had on Craigslist for $100-500. Granted I use the Shopsmith for general cabinetry, and mainly to try to build electric guitars. The guy I bought mine from had 2, and told me outright as a lathe it's OK, but not slow enough for anything unbalanced. He was correct on that account. I am buying my first lathe, that should be here for my birthday in Mid-July - a Grizzly G0766. I have turned at our club and demod at crafts shows on Jet mini's, and can turn a bowl from rough stock on those in less than a couple of hours. If you only do spindle work, or pens, or magic wands, the Shoppie will do fine. But buy a HF $120 desktop instead for a lot less. (example: http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/5005639942.html)

I love having the band saw, the joiner, the tablesaw, the drill press all in one. For me it's fine. But the limitations of the lathe part are too numerous to elaborate on. I have purchased a Nova G3 Chuck, and a few good bowl gouges, and a live center which can all be used elsewhere. The Shopsmith will hop all over your shop with an unbalanced piece of a log on it. Time for turning is best on a real lathe.


I'm still on the fence about a local SawStop 10ER, available for $100 or maybe even less at this point. As I've previously posted, I'd ONLY be using it for drilling / horizontal boring, and very occasional lathe work. I've done a ton of research and thinking, and I REALLY like what it can become (after a few mods) as a drill press. However, since I've never used a lathe, I'm having a had time assessing it. If I ask on some ShopSmith forum, I will of course get glowing comments, but I want to know about the specific limitations.

In other words: If you looked at your favorite lathe, and then looked at a 10ER with universal morse-taper fittings on both ends and a 1.5 HP vari-speed DC motor, what would you still prefer on your machine?
----------------------------------

Here's where I'm at right now:

I'd get the 10ER because it has a lot of cast iron, whereas the Mark V does not. Also, the 10ER has double spindle bearings, and it's easy to replace them with high quality modern ones like Nachi.

The work length is great. The swing is limiting for large bowls, but I don't intend to turn large bowls.

The speed is too high, with the minimum being about 850 rpm, but that's also true for drilling, so I will at first simply lower the overall pulley ratio, then eventually retrofit a 1.5 HP - 2 HP DC motor. - Then I'll also have all the power I could ever want.

It's not very heavy. OK, but I coudl either add cement blocks to the stand, or bolt it to the floor, no?

Tailstock: I can get an aftermarket live center, or I can get an adapter an then use a Oneway system with the interchangeable points.

Headstock: There is a modern MT #2 retrofit available, plus 2 different compatible chucks, plus an adapter for other manufacturer's chucks, so I don't see a problem there.

So far, I'm not seeing a huge problem, but I get the nagging feelign that I'm overlooking something important.

-------

Bigger issues:

1: The banjo is said to not lock very securely. Is this a HUGE problem? Shopsmith makes a really fine new style banjo that even swing into the center of a bowl, but it's $200. That's a lot considering how much I'd already be spending on this thing.

2: I've read that the 5/8" spindle is a little undersized for heavy work. Seeing as typically higher end lathes have spindles at around 1.25" - 1.5" I guess this does concern me. In fact, it's my #1 concern. However, if I'm just turning table legs, should I still be concerned?

- I've also read that the spindle is a little weak to be used with the DP and a morticing attachment. However, the machine I'm looking at HAS a nice morticing attachment, the original owner made two houses worth of furniture with it, and that spindle is still dead straight, so I'm wondering how much of these negative comments are more snob-factor and less actual empirical problems?

-------

Well, any and all thoughts would sure be appreciated.

[Jim Underwood]

Plus one on getting a real lathe. I think the experience will be much more enjoyable.
I've turned on an older Shopsmith, and it was ok, but I really missed my lathe at home. It was just so much more convenient, and enjoyable using a purpose made machine, rather than a "Do-all" machine that sorta mostly did what you wanted it to do.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

LOL. Today, I used my Longworth chuck to finish the bottom of a potentially beautiful kou (not koa) calabash with a cover and a cored salt plate set. As I finished the bottom, got most of it turned off, took away the tailstock, and started power sanding the bottom. Hmm. Fairly large gouge mark I can't seem to sand it off. I'll just touch it up with my gouge. BAM! Popped it off. Darn! Forgot the thing already mentioned. USE THE TAILSTOCK! No bad damage, Remounted it on the LW chuck and continued sanding. OK I'm done. Loosening up the chuck and guess what. Calabash fell off the chuck. BAM, this time it did crack. :eek: :( Hmm. Patch, finish and donate to the fundraiser for my daughter's Hula Halau I guess. I guess someone wanted me to donate that particular calabash to the Halau to raise some money.

Did I already mention, use the tailstock as much as you can.......

[Bob Coates]

Own my dads since 69. He purchased it new in 53. Used it while my dads to turn spindles. I have turned 10" bowls on it, but not out of balance. I added a jack shaft to slow the speed down which helped. I purchased Oweway chuck with 5/8 arbor-- great chuck to do bowls.. In 07 got a year end bonus and got PM3520B -- great machine. Was able to get arbor to fit chuck. Looking back, not sure if I went your route with DC that I wouldn't be just as happy. Like others it makes a excellent sander. For 100 or less it would work for drill press and sander.

[Allan Speers]

..... Like others it makes a excellent sander. For 100 or less it would work for drill press and sander.

Yeah I'm still leaning that way, and since I would NEVER buy just a lathe (I don't need one) I could still use this thing for spindles. - But based on the general consensus here, I don't think I'll plan on investing too much money into it. I'd probably just change the pulley speed (or find a cheap 875 rpm motor, if one comes along) and then at most buy the two adapters to let me use third-party centers & such. - I can always use those later with another lathe, though I doubt I'd ever get one anyway.


And yet, it must be pointed out, that every specific "negative" written here concerns the speed being too high and the lack of weight, both things I would be immediately fixing. The only serious negatives that I know of are already mentioned in my first post: A banjo that's hard to keep solidly mounted, and a very thin spindle diameter. - And no one has addressed these issue. That last one is what has me hung up. - but probably fine for spindle turning.

[Bob Coates]

Allan,
I never found the spindle diameter a problem or a problem with the banjo. If you get don't use the lathe you will avoid the vortex -- I just need one more tool.

Bob

[Mark Greenbaum]

Aggrevation. That's what I get when I try to turn out of balance green wood 4" diameter and up on my Shoppie. I do know the workings very well, having rebuilt it twice before buying the newer double bearing spindled power head. The lower adjustable pulley set busted loose at the hub, and new matched set was going to be $45 or so. A newer head stock was less than $200.

The newer one is better, but still, if you have ever turned bowls on a dedicated lathe, you'll know what the lower variable speed, ease of tailstock tensioning, tool rest adjustability, and machine mass have such great advantages over the lathe portion of the Shopsmith. When I told my wife that I had saved enough fun money to buy the Grizzly, she asked if I was getting rid of the SS. I said NO, because if we move again (probably will) I'll need it for building and remodeling the next residence. It's really a good multi-purpose machine, and can do wonderful things. But get a cheap lathe for even 10" diameter bowls, and you'll be hooked. We had a themed Harry Potter birthday party a couple of years ago, and I turn a single 2x4x96" long stud into 18 fine wizard wands in about 4 hours. The table saw ripped them into nice 3/4" square stock, and then cut off to 18" long, and then lathe turned them down in pretty short order. The kids loved them and their parents were really impressed. Fun times.

[Allan Speers]

Thanks, Mark.

That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.

I dunno if the 10ER is worth i just as a DP and disk sander, esp since I would still have to deal with lowering the speed. Heck ......

[Dave Bunge]

I own a 10ER. I use it occasionally as a DP/horizontal boring machine and as a disk sander. It's what I used for a lathe when I was getting started. It got me hooked enough to eventually buy Powermatic 3520B. My opinions:
As a disk sander: I have a 12" sanding disk for the ER that works great, once you have the table adjusted correctly to 90 degree angle.
As a drill press/horizontal boring machine: Only ok. The mechanisms that adjust and hold the table in place aren't particularly precise and don't hold tightly. So the drill head and the table supporting the work can go out of alignment. I've especially noticed this when doing horizontal boring, which is unfortunate, since this is something relatively unique to the shopsmith type machines.
As a lathe: Not so great. High rpm at minimum speed which others have mentioned. Need to use an allen wrench to adjust the tool rest which is really a pain and slows things down. It vibrated a lot when roughing out unbalanced blanks. I never used it for spindle turning, just bowls. It would probably be better for spindles. As I said, it was good enough to get me hooked on turning and to prompt me to buy a Powermatic. A gateway lathe, so to speak.

[Allan Speers]

..... As a drill press/horizontal boring machine: Only ok. The mechanisms that adjust and hold the table in place aren't particularly precise and don't hold tightly. So the drill head and the table supporting the work can go out of alignment. I've especially noticed this when doing horizontal boring, which is unfortunate, since this is something relatively unique to the shopsmith type machines. .....


Well, nuts. The horizontal boring feature is what really got me interested. This is no longer looking very good....... (thanks, all.)

[John Tyler]

I've been using a ShopSmith 500 for over 3 years and turn bowls for 2" to 8" in diameter. I've purchased the replacement banjo, one way chuck with adapter, live center and tail stock extender. The only issue is the speed, I should buy a speed reducer, large out of round pieces and it vibrates like crazy. Plus the band saw and drill plus feature are better than OK.

[Russell Neyman]

I began turning with a Mark V Shopsmith about 14 years ago and encountered these same issues: too light, frame flexed, too fast. But most of those issues only apply to rough turning or "irregulars" (natural edge pieces or a bowl with inclusions) so I guess it depends on what you intend to do. For me, as a neophyte woodturner exploring the possibilities, it was a good experience. I inherited the machine so there was no investment.

The concept of these five-in-one machines is also the biggest drawback. In order to be a table saw AND a lathe AND a drill press AND a shaper each one of those tasks is somewhat of a compromise. For cabinet work -- which I do -- the horizontal boring works well, and a mortising attachment worked extremely well. Some people have given the boring a bad review, I realize, but I found it quite acceptable and would still be using it except that I now prefer to use a biscuit joiner. You can also use it as a thickness planer, employing the standard fence and plate sander, which I liked.

I upgraded to a bigger Jet lathe long ago, but if I had room for it, I'd keep the Mark V as a dedicated variable speed sanding and polishing station. Sounds sacreligious, but you could easily shorten the frame bars to take up less space.

[David Delo]

I began turning with a Mark V Shopsmith about 14 years ago and encountered these same issues: too light, frame flexed, too fast. But most of those issues only apply to rough turning or "irregulars" (natural edge pieces or a bowl with inclusions) so I guess it depends on what you intend to do. For me, as a neophyte woodturner exploring the possibilities, it was a good experience. I inherited the machine so there was no investment.

The concept of these five-in-one machines is also the biggest drawback. In order to be a table saw AND a lathe AND a drill press AND a shaper each one of those tasks is somewhat of a compromise. For cabinet work -- which I do -- the horizontal boring works well, and a mortising attachment worked extremely well. Some people have given the boring a bad review, I realize, but I found it quite acceptable and would still be using it except that I now prefer to use a biscuit joiner. You can also use it as a thickness planer, employing the standard fence and plate sander, which I liked.

I upgraded to a bigger Jet lathe long ago, but if I had room for it, I'd keep the Mark V as a dedicated variable speed sanding and polishing station. Sounds sacreligious, but you could easily shorten the frame bars to take up less space.

Russell,

I've posted this before but I use my SS as a dedicated sanding station also. For what I make/do, it works great and if I had to sell everything I own would probably be one of the last items to go. Drum & belt sander trade places with the strip sander. Flat disk & conical trade places on the quill and the spindle sander sits on 3 extension tables.
316558

One of these days I'd like to find another decent SS on the cheap and covert it like this picture of a SS Shop Deputy so I don't have to switch out units.

316559

I know a lot of people still use their SS as a lathe but not my cup of tea.