PDA

View Full Version : DANGER! DANGE!R DANGER! with Student edition submissions for projets.



Michael Kowalczyk
06-09-2015, 4:06 PM
Just got off the phone with Solid works Corporate fraud (I Think) division in Boston. and they say that if you get a drawing or any other file produced from a Solid Works student edition file, that you can be held liable for using it. So I would check with any other software manufacturer what their policy is when getting a file from a student edition app. Some people will do anything for a buck. not this one :) How can you tell if it is a student version? it will usually have a watermark indicating "ACADEMIC VERISON"- not for commercial use

Rich Harman
06-09-2015, 4:21 PM
...they say that if you get a drawing or any other file produced from a Solid Works student edition file, that you can be held liable for using it.

The robotics club that I used to mentor got about 60 Solidworks student licenses each year. I am sure there are thousands of legitimate student edition users out there, some of them need to get stuff made.

You've got to be a special kind of stupid to be a commercial user that sends off academic version files to a third party. Probably not the kind of customer you would want anyway.

Art Mann
06-09-2015, 6:23 PM
I think Solid Works is just bluffing. Nobody who uses the product and nobody who makes stuff using the designs has any motivation whatsoever to turn themselves in. Solid Works has no right to inspect the files on any manufacturer's computers. Who is going to know? There are other software alternatives and file converters. Does Solid Works really want customers to migrate to other products when they are caught using a student edition file? I seriously doubt Solid Works would prosecute such an offense even if a company is caught red handed.

Jerome Stanek
06-09-2015, 6:44 PM
I bought a student version of autocad when I was taking the class and it is good for 5 years

Dave Sheldrake
06-09-2015, 8:10 PM
I seriously doubt Solid Works would prosecute such an offense even if a company is caught red handed.

Dassault Systems are quite litigious when it comes to copyright issues. AutoDesk aren't quite so harsh but will act if they find people making serious abuses of their work. It's another example of people running businesses that aren't really businesses, a real company that takes it's responsibilities seriously will get commercial licences for any and all software they use.

I currently license Solidworks, AutoCAD, Rhino 3d and some other commercial drafting software, I don't like the prices but it's a penalty of business....I pay for what I use...

Michael Kowalczyk
06-10-2015, 3:16 PM
here we go again, people trying to justify their attempt to skirt the rules read your TOS if you can't do business using legit software then don't do it.
right on Dave S.

Michael Kowalczyk
06-11-2015, 2:58 PM
Art ...I disagree

Michael Hunter
06-11-2015, 4:35 PM
It doesn't seem right that Solidworks expect laser operators to police their copyright for them!

Does this mean that I have to waterboard anyone who sends me an "academic" file to make sure that they are really a student?

Dave Sheldrake
06-11-2015, 5:03 PM
It doesn't seem right that Solidworks expect laser operators to police their copyright for them!

Does this mean that I have to waterboard anyone who sends me an "academic" file to make sure that they are really a student?

Not a case of policing Mike, if we accept student files for commercial work it becomes "joint enterprise" here in the UK and can see us prosecuted as well as the originator.

Bill George
06-11-2015, 5:26 PM
The sky is falling!!! Heaven forbid a student with a legal copy of Solidworks can't get a project done. Notice he did not steal it, it was paid for and he has a right to use it for learning.

Kev Williams
06-11-2015, 6:33 PM
We're not guilty. Sorta,

If someone gives me (or you) art to reproduce for them, it's not MY job or responsibility (or yours) to figure out if it's legal or not.

That job falls on whoever gave me (or you) the art.


Innocent Infringement Law & Legal Definition (http://definitions.uslegal.com/i/innocent-infringement/)


Innocent Infringement is the infringement caused without knowledge or awareness of such act. Innocent infringement is usually caused to an intellectual property. Innocent infringement in certain cases exempts liability. They are:
1. in case where the infringer were mislead by the lack of copyright notice; and
2. in case where the infringing act occurred before the infringer received actual notice of the copyright.
In case of any innocent infringement of intellectual property right, the innocent infringer is immunized from paying monetary damages. But the infringer is not exempted from injunctive relief.

Gary Hair
06-11-2015, 6:34 PM
The sky is falling!!! Heaven forbid a student with a legal copy of Solidworks can't get a project done. Notice he did not steal it, it was paid for and he has a right to use it for learning.

I think you missed this part Bill. Clearly, commercial work doesn't fall within the "right to use for learning".


if we accept student files for commercial work

Art Mann
06-11-2015, 7:19 PM
My understanding is that students who use the educational version of the software can't legally have someone make the product they have designed. What kind of a terms of service contract is that? My solution would be at the end of the design process, use a file converter or directly import the design into another product and you are done. Bye Bye legal issue.

Dave Sheldrake
06-11-2015, 7:49 PM
My understanding is that students who use the educational version of the software can't legally have someone make the product they have designed.

A student can Art as part of their student work, what is not allowed is for somebody to use a Student version of the software to create a file they wish to use for commercial purpose. My wife is currently doing a degree in Criminal Psychology so has access to a lot of student software available to her via Microsoft and others, if she want's me to 3d print something for her for her studies from a file version created with said student software that is legal, if I use her software though and then proceed to try and market or sell the end results that is when the law is broken.


in case where the infringing act occurred before the infringer received actual notice of the copyright.

It's not a Copyright, Intellectual Property or Trademark issue Kev, it's "Obtaining goods or Services by deception" here, part of the Fraud act. Copyright here is a civil matter, fraud is a criminal matter.

Rich Harman
06-11-2015, 8:49 PM
My understanding is that students who use the educational version of the software can't legally have someone make the product they have designed.

What is the basis for that understanding? Is it buried within the terms of service? Solid works makes it quite clear that the educational version is not to be used for commercial purposes. A student having parts made, without the intent to profit from them, is not a violation of that.

I'lll say again, Solidworks gives out licenses to robotics teams, I've got the codes to prove it (I also have the commercial version of Solidworks). These teams use Solidworks to design robots for competition. If it were illegal to have the students actually make the parts then... well that would be a bit ridiculous would't it?

Art Mann
06-11-2015, 10:27 PM
Rich, I will take your word for it but that is not what the original poster said. Maybe you should address his post.

Rich Harman
06-11-2015, 11:07 PM
Rich, I will take your word for it but that is not what the original poster said. Maybe you should address his post.

In the original post he said that Solidworks said that you "can" be held liable. Meaning that if certain conditions are met, then there is reason for them to take action. A legitimate student edition user trying to get parts made would not be reason for them to be concerned. Someone running a business on student software would be a reason.

Kev Williams
06-11-2015, 11:19 PM
A student can Art as part of their student work, what is not allowed is for somebody to use a Student version of the software to create a file they wish to use for commercial purpose. My wife is currently doing a degree in Criminal Psychology so has access to a lot of student software available to her via Microsoft and others, if she want's me to 3d print something for her for her studies from a file version created with said student software that is legal, if I use her software though and then proceed to try and market or sell the end results that is when the law is broken.
That's because YOU know you're not supposed to market a product from her student software,

BUT- if she doesn't reveal the source of her files and simply pays YOU to make the product that SHE markets, then SHE is guilty of fraud, and YOU are guilty of nothing.

My point is this: people supply me with PDF's and blueprints and drawings and whoknowswhat daily. My job is to build/make/fabricate/manufacture/engrave/etch/paint etc. etc., whatever the prints and drawings specify me to do. I have no idea if any of these drawings or their contents are stolen or pirated. And as long as I DON'T know, even if they are, according to the law, I can't be held liable.

It's when I DO know, that I'm liable.

A few years ago I received an order for 100 small aluminum plates. The text was simply "MADE IN USA". I found out thru some internet conversation that my customer planned to put these plates on parts that he was having shipped in from China.

As soon as I found out, I cancelled the order.

But what if I'd never found out? Would I have been guilty of anything?

Michael Kowalczyk
06-12-2015, 1:24 AM
So going back a few posts. I would think that if a student wanted a proof of concept or prototype (a 1 off) that it might be permissible but very expensive. Wanting 3000 of them is a different ball game. It is my opinion that it is our responsibility to do our due diligence on files that may infringe or violate copy rights or are licensed products. Go ahead and try to sell am NFL product without a license and see what happens. if anyone disagrees don't be surprised when you get the knock on the door by a process server.

To Rich
I believe I did mention that the PDF I received had a Watermark,(on all 3 pages) that clearly said it what am Academic version of Solidworks. if you have ever read a TOS of an academic version it usually states that they can not be used for commercial production ( I am paraphrasing) Rhino I think is one of the only Cad apps that has an easy upgrade path from Academic to commercial use software.

Dave Sheldrake
06-12-2015, 12:20 PM
But what if I'd never found out? Would I have been guilty of anything?

If you can show that a reasonable person would have no realistic way of knowing then you are protected...Having files that have "Academic Use Only" all over them probably isn't going to end well if you use them commercially.

Michael Kowalczyk
06-12-2015, 4:26 PM
I am not sure but I believe that the student can not export a working prt file so that is probably why the PDF with the watermark is used. I read somewhere that a student version prt file can not be opened in a full blown solid works app.

Rich Harman
06-12-2015, 4:51 PM
I am not sure but I believe that the student can not export a working prt file so that is probably why the PDF with the watermark is used. I read somewhere that a student version prt file can not be opened in a full blown solid works app.

It can be opened but you will get a message telling you that it is an academic version and that once edited, the academic version can no longer open it.

Rich Harman
06-12-2015, 5:04 PM
To Rich
I believe I did mention that the PDF I received had a Watermark,(on all 3 pages) that clearly said it what am Academic version of Solidworks. if you have ever read a TOS of an academic version it usually states that they can not be used for commercial production...

I would certainly question them about using an academic version, if it is a business, then obviously you wouldn't accept the work. But there are certainly users that legitimately use the academic version, they deserve to be able to get stuff made - as long as they are not making a business out of it.

Dave Sheldrake
06-12-2015, 8:59 PM
I would certainly question them about using an academic version, if it is a business, then obviously you wouldn't accept the work. But there are certainly users that legitimately use the academic version, they deserve to be able to get stuff made - as long as they are not making a business out of it.


+1...yup this would be how I would do it

Paul Phillips
06-16-2015, 4:09 PM
This is a fairly honest group of genuinely good people here on this forum, but my experience with a company I worked for a few years back is that although they knew it was illegal, they regularly used straight up pirated copies of Corel, Photoshop, Flexisign and others, at one point I got so fed up I totaled all the illegal software to be around $20K and confronted the owner with the info, his response was "it wasn't hurting anyone", "they can afford it, they make millions" and "it's only illegal if you get caught". That kind of mindset is really out there and it boggles my mind!

Jerome Stanek
06-16-2015, 5:43 PM
One of the companies that I used to work for used Pirated software and got caught it cost them a lot ore in fines than the legal copies would have.

John Coloccia
06-16-2015, 6:15 PM
How can you be expected to know all of the nuances of all their different licenses, including the ones you don't own? I'd love to see that go to court, just for entertainment value.

Michael Kowalczyk
06-16-2015, 6:36 PM
read the TOS... if it looks suspicious then it probably id. If they submit a PDF of a 3d item for a quote but can not get you the actual 3D file that throws up a red flag.

Dan Hintz
06-17-2015, 9:27 AM
read the TOS... if it looks suspicious then it probably id. If they submit a PDF of a 3d item for a quote but can not get you the actual 3D file that throws up a red flag.

Then what would be the point of the quote? If they can't get you the file, it means you'll be recreating he item, so you charge accordingly.

Curt Harms
06-18-2015, 8:03 AM
This is a fairly honest group of genuinely good people here on this forum, but my experience with a company I worked for a few years back is that although they knew it was illegal, they regularly used straight up pirated copies of Corel, Photoshop, Flexisign and others, at one point I got so fed up I totaled all the illegal software to be around $20K and confronted the owner with the info, his response was "it wasn't hurting anyone", "they can afford it, they make millions" and "it's only illegal if you get caught". That kind of mindset is really out there and it boggles my mind!

One disgruntled employee (or ex-employee) with a cell phone or email account and Oh Boy.

https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/add.aspx?src=us&ln=en-us

https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/usa/rewardsconditions.aspx

Dan Hintz
06-18-2015, 8:37 AM
(up to) 5% of final fine (and likely loss of job). Probably not worth it for $20k in software...

Paul Phillips
06-18-2015, 10:25 AM
One disgruntled employee (or ex-employee) with a cell phone or email account and Oh Boy.

https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/add.aspx?src=us&ln=en-us

https://reporting.bsa.org/r/report/usa/rewardsconditions.aspx

Interesting, good information to have. Most of the disgruntled people that left there, weren't savvy enough to realize that or I'm sure they would have, I did warn the owner of the possibility however. It was the entitled, I don't give an s*** attitude that got to me.