Cutting box joints by hand

[Jeff Polaski]

Has anyone ever cut box joints without a table saw. A dovetail takes a saw and a chisel, and it seems that's the only way to go by hand with a basic box joint.

[Mike Cutler]

I've cut some bigger ones by hand, not many though 7/8"x 7/8", to make beehive parts. These were kinda crude though.
In absence of a table saw my next choice would be a band saw, or a router with a box joint making jig.
It sounds as if you want a 'neander solution, so I think the dovetail saw and chisels should work fine.

[John TenEyck]

Dovetails are actually more forgiving of little errors than box joints. Cutting them by hand would be a very difficult proposition, IMO. Maybe some big monster ones would go OK, but for the size you typically see I would find a power solution - or cut DT's by hand.

John

[glenn bradley]

What John said; box and finger joints leave little room to hide inaccuracies unless they will be covered by trim pieces or drawer fronts.

[Robert Engel]

I would try it if I

1) Just wanted to prove how crappy looking a joint I could make. :mad:
or
2) Just wanted to drive my self insane. :confused:

I got better ways to spend my time, though. ;)

[Dave Cav]

Box joints were never intended to be cut by hand. They pretty much didn't exist until machines to make them were developed in the 19th century for mass producing small to medium boxes and cases. That being said it isn't too difficult to cut really big box joints on a bandsaw, just tedious and fussy. My dad made some toy boxes and blanket chests that way 15 or so years ago, mostly just to see if he could do it, I suppose. He didn't ever cut dovetails either by hand or with a router.

[David Wong]

I recently built a tray to hold some paring chisels, using hand cut box joints. They required a little more work than dovetails. Fingers were sawn fat from the pencil line and pared to size. Each finger turned out between 3/16" and 1/4".

Some of the joints came out ok...
315386

Some did not...
315387

Someday, I'll clean up the gap with a patch. I used a relatively soft wood (Port Orford Cedar). I think results would have been better using a fine grain harder wood, like soft maple.

[Jeff Polaski]

I'm going to give it a try. I'll post if and when I get it right.

The Neanderthals didn't quite get the hang of using hand tools, which is maybe one of the reasons that we, Homo Sapiens, are here and they are not. please note that I'm not referring to the very small percentage of Neanderthal genes that it turns out that many of us have. Just because they could not make fine tools (better spears) doesn't mean they couldn't go out on a date now and again.

[steven c newman]

I seem to be a bit late to this thread, but...
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Hand cut. Saw the lines, chop the waste out. Use the first to lay out the next one. Saw on the waste side of the new lines.
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Spacing and size of the fingers was set to the width of the chisel I was going to use to chop with. Split the lines on the first set of fingers, use those to lay out the matching set, saw on the waste side. Doesn't take all that long to do, either. I also pair up the sides and then the ends. Sides get done at both ends. Then the ends of the box is marked out .

[george wilson]

Box joints ,as mentioned,were designed for machines to cut. To cut them by hand is not the best way to expend your effort: They are much more trouble to cut (unless you make them huge! Then they don't look as nice.),and they do not resist coming apart,at least in one direction,like dovetails do. Where is their advantage?

[Stanley Covington]

Box joints were used in Asia long before machines became available. Granted, they tend to be large and not as fine as machine made joints. It is easy to lock them in place in both directions with a dowel or pin as in the picture below.

They are very quick and easy to make. Indeed, I have made a lot of these joints by hand, and seen hundreds of them on antique pieces, but I have never seen one that failed catastrophically. It is a solid, useful, and easily-made joint. It is not as attractive as a dovetail joint, IMO, and is considered nothing more than a utilitarian joint for connecting the corners of carcasework. But when locked with pins, I believe it to be as strong as a dovetail in all directions, and significantly stronger in tension in the direction the dovetails are inserted.

2 drachma.

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[lowell holmes]

That is a beautiful joint.

[steven c newman]

Sooo, without a MACHINE to do these, they can't be done?

Wasting time in the Dungeon again...
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My Machine is just those items sitting there, behind the two sides I made today, got the "ends" done, using those fingers to mark things out. I then cut on the waste side of the lines, one test fit..
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There is a square back there, just to see how all four sides turned out..
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Waste of time? It is my time to waste, after all. If I can't afford a new, high tech camera, I sure'n can't afford the "machine" and then have to build a jig......after I can even find the room for the machine in the first place.

[Glen Canaday]

I love POC. It smells awesome! I've used it for arrows.


I recently built a tray to hold some paring chisels, using hand cut box joints. They required a little more work than dovetails. Fingers were sawn fat from the pencil line and pared to size. Each finger turned out between 3/16" and 1/4".

Some of the joints came out ok...
315386

Some did not...
315387

Someday, I'll clean up the gap with a patch. I used a relatively soft wood (Port Orford Cedar). I think results would have been better using a fine grain harder wood, like soft maple.

[george wilson]

Steven: It won't do any good to tell you this,but others may benefit: You don't have to build a "MACHINE!!!" I wouldn't either,though I have a machine shop. A wooden cross member screwed to your miter gauge,and a carefully placed nail,and a blade that cuts a square topped cut are all you need. And,that blade can be a small blade. Then,you,too,can make nice box joints composed of approx. 1/8" wide fingers CAN ACTUALLY BE YOURS!!!!! I have made them 1/16" just fooling around,when I was still a teenager.

[steven c newman]

I'll still do mine..MY way. Maybe you might remember back to about.....1700s or so( when you were but an apprentise..) Maybe they did this by hand tools, too?

I started doing these FINGER JOINTS as a "break" from dovetails.....nothing more. Doesn't take much in the way of tooling, mostly a common backsaw, a mallet and chisel, and something to lay them out with. I usually do this sort of work sitting down on my shop stool. Running 3/16 finger joints right now. Sizes will depend on the chisel I use. Too thin of fingers, makes it look machine made, like a crate. Too fat....more to just show off the joinery. Most of mine have been the same thickness of the wood I was using to make the box. For those that use mainly hand tools, this is a simple way to make them. BTW,shop does NOT have a tablesaw, no room.

[george wilson]

3/16" will begin to look better. Thinner looks nicer. My opinion.

[steven c newman]

The OP asked for ways to do the joints by hand tools, I was merely showing him ONE way that doesn't involve a motor. A little variation says hand made, rather than the coolie cutter ones that say Machine made.

I do have an 1/8" sash chisel to make thinner ones......too fragile for me. I have an original Stanley No. 45 box, from Roxton Pond Que. Canada that has those thin fingers.....had to build a new box since so many fingers were broken in the corners.
Remington Arms used to ship items in a finger jointed wooden box....looked like a wide kerf table saw blade had made them. Way too many cuts to do by hand, I'd be sitting at the bench all day to get one corner done.
As my local barkeep would hollar out every evening..." Time, Gentleman, Please!" Unless one is being paid by the cuts to make a simple corner joint.

Working on a bit to hold all my auger bits right now. Corner joints were done in a couple hours, if that. That includes plane work to level one board, clean a couple faces to see where I was marking better, and working on a glue up to make holders for the bits to sit in. IF I can quit fighting over a simple joint, I might get a few things done IN the shop, rather than arguing here.

" I may not know Art, but I know what I like" does that ring a bell? Now, I seem to have a few errands to run today. Maybe this evening, I MIGHT get back to the shop.

The size I make the fingers with is determined by the chisel I am using. I also use that same chisel to lay out the spacing. Maybe next project, I might use the smaller sash chisel......we'll see. Thimmer does involve a lot more saw cuts, and a lot more time to make.

Have fun...

[Prashun Patel]

If you'd like to create a thread criticizing box joints, then you're welcome to make a new thread for that. It's not relevant to the OP's original question, so I deleted the recent posts here. If my sniping has unfairly spared other posts or rendered them irrelevant or out of context, LMK. Gun still loaded. Finger still itchy.

[James Waldron]

If you'd like to create a thread criticizing box joints, then you're welcome to make a new thread for that. It's not relevant to the OP's original question, so I deleted the recent posts here. If my sniping has unfairly spared other posts or rendered them irrelevant or out of context, LMK. Gun still loaded. Finger still itchy.


What? Thread drift is now a mortal sin? Wowzer!

[Prashun Patel]

Thread drift alone is fine; it's when the drifters start jabbing. I've smelled smoke enough times enough to know when fire's coming.

[Pat Barry]

If you'd like to create a thread criticizing box joints, then you're welcome to make a new thread for that. It's not relevant to the OP's original question, so I deleted the recent posts here. If my sniping has unfairly spared other posts or rendered them irrelevant or out of context, LMK. Gun still loaded. Finger still itchy.
Seems a tad bit heavy handed.

[Patrick Chase]

Seems a tad bit heavy handed.

IMO it's justified given recent SMC history, though things have been a *lot* better over the past couple weeks. The mods are back to editing posts for mere policy violations!