wood storage, 5k bf of lumber

[Lewis Ehrhardt]

I'm about through air-drying about 4-5k bf of oak lumber. Boards vary in width and thickness from 6 in wide to 2-3 inches thick, about 8 to 10 ft long. The moisture content is down to about 11 -12%. Any suggestions? Will it still need to be stickered? Thanks for any suggestions. Lewis

[David Davies]

Not the portion you store at my house :)
Dave

[Allan Speers]

Well, I can tell you what NOT to do: (Learn from my mistakes. )

I've had about 6-7K BF myself, of really nice lumber, (QSWO, Cherry, Air-dried Walnut, figured Hard maple) stacked in piles in my backyard for about 10 years. I originally intended to skip-plane it and sort the best pieces, etc, but life got hard and time for w-working became almost non-existant. I had the bottom boards off the ground by about 6", laying perpendicularly across a few plastic shelves, then piled the rest on top. Four large piles of lumber. I put multiple 4X8 sheets of plywood over the tops, then a bunch of tarps over the plywood, overlapping the sides but leaving some air-space near the bottom. I also sprinkled a lot of boric acid around the bottom pieces.

I thought this would be fine, except:

I forgot about moisture from the ground! Ugh.
I've been going through the piles this summer. All the bottom and top boards have serious rot, plus there are quite of bit of PPB holes / sawdust on the outside edges.

Just shoot me.

As for stickering, I'd say you probably don't have to at this point, but I do recommend that you maintain straightness by some mechanical means, even if just wooden or steel arms. I made the mistake of just piling it all up, thinking it would sort of "support itself." Again, this was only supposed to be temporary. After 10 years, most of it is still straight, but I have 800 BF of 2 year old Cherry that curved under its own weight on each end, where it overhangs the supports.

Heal my wounds, then shoot me again. I deserve it.

[Scott T Smith]

11% - 12% is about as low as the MC% will drop for air dried lumber in your area. Yes, you can flat stack it, but check it closely for any signs whatsoever of powder post beetles before you do. They are a real problem here in the south.

[Danny Hamsley]

I would definitely spray it for powderpost beetles. Here in GA, there is a 100% chance that they would get into the wood if stored in a shed or barn for any length of time. Hopefully, they are not already in it.

I built a white oak counter top for a lady 2 1/2 years ago. She contacted me last month and said that there were little holes appearing in the counter top. I had to put it in the kiln and heat treat it. Then, because it warped just a bit, I had to rip it down the middle and re-glue it, re-sand it, etc. It can take up to 5 years for powderpost beetles to emerge. Scary.

[Brad Seubert]

Are the powder post beetles more of an issue in the south? I keep hearing about them on here, but have never heard of them before I started coming on this forum....I'm in Wisconsin.

Just curious if its something I need to be worried about. I air dry a decent amount of lumber for my own use.

[Bill Bukovec]

What spray do you use and when do you spray it?

Does Tennessee have these little critters? (I know I'm in Minnesota, but we are tired of freezing our tails every winter)

Bill

[Allan Speers]

It can take up to 5 years for powderpost beetles to emerge. Scary.


Very scary, esp considering how much suspect lumber I have. I'm trying to think of a way to heat up an entire pile, enough to kill the little buggers, but so far a safe way has eluded me.

I'm looking into making some home-made "Bora Care." It's expensive, but not horribly so, compared to burning all that lumber. I'm a little concerned about how this might later affect various finishes, but so far I'm reading that it's pretty benign.

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Anyone who has to store lumber outdoors, I recommend at a minimum that you make a simple solution of diluted boric acid, and spray it on all the exposed areas of you lumber piles. This should keep them from getting in in the first place. Bora Care is better, as it absorbs deeper into the wood, and is the only safe, non-heat way to kill them.

[Allan Speers]

Here's the formula for rolling your own: (I collated this from several sources online. It's a little confusing as the ratios were slightly different, but I think it will get you there. If someone comes up with an easier-to-understand formula, I'd love to have it.
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HOME- MADE "BORA CARE" :

Bora Care Is: A 40% solution of sodium octaborate in ethylene glycol; 27% borate content.

Timbor: A powder which you mix with water.

Bora Care penetrates the wood deeper and faster than Timbor. Additionally, without glycol after some months you will have the tiny salt crystals resurface on the wood, and they are visible under the clear topcoat. Not that nice. - So Bora Care is the stuff to use on raw wood.

Boracare is just as good (or possibly even better) sprayed on green wood, because borates love water and therefore will spread into the wood faster and more evenly when the wood has high moisture content.

Glycol penetrates rapidly through all paint, varnish, and oil finishes (except epoxy and polyurethanes) without lifting or damaging those finishes in any way. You can treat all of the wood without removing any finish. Once bare wood has been treated with glycol or the borate solutions and become dry to the touch it can be finished or glued. If a borate solution leaves white residues on the surface, it will have to be washed off with water and the surface allowed to dry.

note: Wetting dry wood before applying boracare is not recommended.
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COVERAGE:

You will be making the same solution that they sell online. Both must be diluted 50 / 50 with water, just before application.

1 gallon of the pre-diluted stuff will treat 800 BF.

( One gallon becomes 2 gallons before spraying, still covering 800 BF.)

## After diluting it, you must use it within 24 hrs !!!!
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HOW TO MAKE IT:

All percentages are by weight.
60% borax - 40% boric acid (by weight) gives the maximum solubility of borates in water.

A gallon of glycol weighs 9.3 lbs (confirmed) so that means:

1 gallon glycol (9.3 lbs) + 3.72 lbs Borax, + 2.48 lbs boric acid.


However, an internet formula has it different: (Possibly because some bound water in the borax gets boiled off) THAT formula says:
1 gallon glycol, 4.5 lbs Borax, 3.5 lbs boric acid.
see: http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/homemade.html

To make a stable solution you mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently.
Boil off water until a candy thermometer shows 260°F.
This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax.

This solution has a borate content of 26%. It is stable at 40°F
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COST:

note: “Borax” is boric acid salts. Just buy “20 Mule team Borax” at the supermarket.

boric acid costs about $4/lb. online. / $3/ lb in 25 lb buckets.
(sometimes boric acid roach poison, 99% boric acid, is cheaper)

Ethilene Glycol costs ~$100 + shipping for 5 gallons. = $20 + / gallon
Borax costs 54 cents/ lb. 3.72 lbs = ~ $2
Boric Acid costs $3 - $4 / lbs, depending on quantity. = $9 - $12
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TOTAL COST FOR 1 GALLON: $31 - $34, + shipping.

- OK, maybe with the powder added, it will equal a LITTLE more, but you re also boiling off some bound water in the Borax, so it will probably be close to a gallon.



Again, this covers ~ 800 BF, once diluted with water.


COST PER BF: About 4 cents.
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WHAT GLYCOL TO USE?

I DO NOT recommend using antifreeze for glycols. It contains antioxidants that will retard the absorption of the mixture & take MANY days to dry.

Try to get pure Ethilene Glycol or Polietilene Glycol or Propilene Glycol for cheap.

Ethilene glycol is not that bad as you will read on the internet UNLESS YOU EAT IT OR DRINK IT. The other two - Propilene and Polietilene - they are used also in the food industry, so they are safe. Also, since ethilene is a boicide it will add to the borates to control the pests, be it insects or mold & mildew.

So, ethilene is the more effective glycol to use on INFESTED wood.

WARNING: If you use ethelene for a glycol do not breath the fumes as you boil the mixture !!!


BUY Ethilene Glycol HERE:

http://www.dynalene.com/br-Ethylene-Glycol-Dynalene-EG-5-Gal-buy-online-p/dy-eg-4.htm
5 gallons for $100 - It probably weighs about 35 lbs.
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IS GLYCOL SAFE?


Glycol's toxicity to humans is low enough that it has to be deliberately ingested (about a half cup for a 150 lb. human); many millions of gallons are used annually with few precautions and without incident. It should not be left where children or pets can get at it, as smaller doses would harm them, and they may be attracted by its reported sweet taste that I have confirmed by accident. The lethal dose of borates is smaller than of glycol, but the bitter taste makes accidental consumption less likely.

[Allan Speers]

Bump.

Hoping someone can use the above info.

[Mike Chalmers]

Bump.

Hoping someone can use the above info.

Wow. Amazing reply. I bet many will benefit from this info.

[Allan Speers]

Wow. Amazing reply. I bet many will benefit from this info.


thanks.

I hope they see it. :)

[Larry Edgerton]

Allen, thanks!

I have been doing it wrong for a long time, but it still worked I guess as I do not have them in my stock. I will use your formula.

In answer to the gentlemans question about PPB in Northern cloimates, yes we do have them. I'm sure not as bad as the South, but hole is holes. I'm about 60 miles from Canada.

Larry