Will the Laguna LT14 SUV bandsaw work with 20 Amp circuit breaker?

[Mike Nguyen]

Hi.
I have only 1 220v outlet in the garage for my Sawstop PCS 3HP and it's on a 20 amp circuit breaker. I want to buy the Laguna LT14 SUV bandsaw but the manual states that it needs to be plugged into a 30 amp circuit outlet. Can I just use the existing 20 amp outlet without tripping it?
Thanks.
Mike

[Mike Nguyen]

I found more info on the web and I think this bandsaw should work on the 20 amp circuit since it only draws about 13 amp. I hope I am right.
Mike

[Kevin Wolfe]

If it only peaks at 13 then you should be fine. That seems like a fair amount at 220v. I thought my grizzly was more like 7 amps at 220v.

[Art Mann]

One thing I will say is that you will not damage your saw or your house wiring if you plug it in and try it. It seems a lot of manufacturers are now specifying a current capacity that exceeds the actual requirements for the machine by a substantial margin. Oddly enough, they are not providing a cord or recommending a plug type to sustain the higher current. I will just about bet that the LT14 provides a 12 gauge wire that isn't recommended to carry 30A continuously as well as a 20A rated plug. Some companies are updating requirements that have been around for decades. I'm guessing it is because they are getting tired of people complaining that their machine won't work on 20A when the real problem is a weak breaker.

[John Lankers]

Could it be the confusion originated with some of the cheap Chinese imports that are so inefficient where a 3 hp motor draws close to 30 Amps on start up compared to a Siemens or equivalent that only draws half of that.
Just wondering

[Wade Lippman]

I will just about bet that the LT14 provides a 12 gauge wire that isn't recommended to carry 30A continuously as well as a 20A rated plug.

Safe bet. The OP said it used 13amp, so why would they wire for 30a continuously?

[Art Mann]

Safe bet. The OP said it used 13amp, so why would they wire for 30a continuously?

That is the point. Laguna is recommending 30A service for a machine that only requires 13A to operate. They are absolutely not choosing the circuit size to accommodate startup current (unless they are very ignorant, which I doubt). Normal breakers are designed to sustain double the rated current for somewhere around 20 seconds and a minute. They will sustain 5 times rated current for 5 or 10 seconds. Google "breaker trip curves" and see for yourself. They do that because so many devices have high starting current compared to quiescent current. Laguna would have to supply a very poor quality motor indeed to trip a 20A breaker with a 3 HP motor if the breaker is functioning correctly. It is really inexplicable why Laguna and many other companies (like Grizzly) are changing their 10 or 20 year old specs to require 30A service for a 3 HP motor unless they are trying to protect themselves against consumers who can't believe a 20A breaker can go bad and trip too low.

[John Seybold]

If it's any help, my LT18 is plugged into a 20A circuit. Never tripped a breaker in 5 years. But that has a different (Baldor) motor. I think you'll be OK, though.

[Wade Lippman]

That is the point. Laguna is recommending 30A service for a machine that only requires 13A to operate. They are absolutely not choosing the circuit size to accommodate startup current (unless they are very ignorant, which I doubt). Normal breakers are designed to sustain double the rated current for somewhere around 20 seconds and a minute. They will sustain 5 times rated current for 5 or 10 seconds.

Perhaps Laguna gets a lot of complaints from people using that particular machine on 20a breakers. There is also the issue of voltage drop; if you are 100' from the breaker, perhaps there is too much VD on #12 to allow it to start reliably. Only Laguna knows their reason. Without some users attesting they have used that machine/motor on #12, we won't know if Laguna is just covering their butt.

I had a JDS 3hp cyclone that tripped one brand new breaker, but worked on another brand new breaker. All my other 3hp tools were fine on the "weak" one.

[Mike Nguyen]

If it's any help, my LT18 is plugged into a 20A circuit. Never tripped a breaker in 5 years. But that has a different (Baldor) motor. I think you'll be OK, though.

2 weeks ago I saw a Laguna LT18 on craiglist for $1200 but had to pass because I thought this band saw won't work on a 20A circuit at all and I did not want to rewire and the saw is just too big for my shop. In regard to the LT14 SUV band saw, nothing from Laguna web site or manual states that the Leeson motor peaks at 13a. I found it on the internet and I think it's Rod Sheridon who posted the info.

[Phillip Gregory]

That is the point. Laguna is recommending 30A service for a machine that only requires 13A to operate. They are absolutely not choosing the circuit size to accommodate startup current (unless they are very ignorant, which I doubt). Normal breakers are designed to sustain double the rated current for somewhere around 20 seconds and a minute. They will sustain 5 times rated current for 5 or 10 seconds. Google "breaker trip curves" and see for yourself. They do that because so many devices have high starting current compared to quiescent current. Laguna would have to supply a very poor quality motor indeed to trip a 20A breaker with a 3 HP motor if the breaker is functioning correctly. It is really inexplicable why Laguna and many other companies (like Grizzly) are changing their 10 or 20 year old specs to require 30A service for a 3 HP motor unless they are trying to protect themselves against consumers who can't believe a 20A breaker can go bad and trip too low.

The only <5 HP motors I have seen that specify a 30 A circuit are 2 HP 120/240 V motors being run on 120 V. The full load amp draw is right at 20 A and per the NEC they are supposed to have the supply circuit be 25% larger than the FLA.

[John Seybold]

Mike, that's too bad! It's a fantastic saw, and $1200 is 2/3 off retail. The footprint of the machine is actually pretty small. But then again, I don't know how big your shop is.

[John Seybold]

I should add: before I bought the LT18, I had an LT18SUV. I really didn't like it that much and I finally got rid of it. There's no comparison to the Italian-made saws. With the LT14SUV, try before you buy if you can.

[Mike Nguyen]

I should add: before I bought the LT18, I had an LT18SUV. I really didn't like it that much and I finally got rid of it. There's no comparison to the Italian-made saws. With the LT14SUV, try before you buy if you can.

I had a cheap Skil bandsaw from Lowes that my brother gave me a 5 years ago and only used it twice to cut some curve, one for a hand plane tote and the other for the rear fence of my table saw sled. This band saw died last week so I want to replace it with something that I can call it my last band saw because I don't want to go through the upgrading process like what I went through with the table saws until I got the Sawstop. So even if I can try the LT14SUV before I buy, I am not sure what if it helps since I don't have much experience with band saw if any. This is my hobby so the cost of the band saw is not really matter but space in the shop (garage) is since this is a oversize 3 car garage with 2 SUV in it along with my existing tools such as table saw, workbench, router table, MFT, planer, jointer, miter saw station, drill press cabinet...

[Alan Morris]

True words, Art! Does it really cost $1200? Perhaps I missed something. Thanks for explanation, Wade!

[Derek Stockley]

I want to buy the Laguna LT14 SUV bandsaw but the manual states that it needs to be plugged into a 30 amp circuit outlet. Can I just use the existing 20 amp outlet without tripping it?

I have been running my LT14SUV on a 20A circuit for almost 2 years without ever tripping my breaker. No problems at all. In fact, it comes pre-wired with a moulded NEMA 6-20 (240V/20A) plug here in Canada (not sure if this is true in the USA). The length of the cables between your breaker panel and your receptacle may be a factor in this - mine is around 40' of 12 gauge cable from breaker to receptacle.

[Alan Lightstone]

Mine's been on a 20 amp circuit for 5 years. Never tripped once.

[Curt Harms]

.................................................. ..
It is really inexplicable why Laguna and many other companies (like Grizzly) are changing their 10 or 20 year old specs to require 30A service for a 3 HP motor unless they are trying to protect themselves against consumers who can't believe a 20A breaker can go bad and trip too low.

I'm no expert on the NEC and its application but isn't there something where a machine that's hard wired has to be powered by a circuit with the capacity specified in the machine's manual? I presume most smaller band saws are powered with a plug so no issue but still.

[Art Mann]

Perhaps Laguna gets a lot of complaints from people using that particular machine on 20a breakers. There is also the issue of voltage drop; if you are 100' from the breaker, perhaps there is too much VD on #12 to allow it to start reliably. Only Laguna knows their reason. Without some users attesting they have used that machine/motor on #12, we won't know if Laguna is just covering their butt.

I had a JDS 3hp cyclone that tripped one brand new breaker, but worked on another brand new breaker. All my other 3hp tools were fine on the "weak" one.

I think the most probable explanation is excessive (and erroneous) customer complaints for why they would over-specify the current requirements by 50%. They can't concern themselves with excessively long runs. That is the job of the electrician who installed the wiring. If you run 4/0 welding cable over a long enough distance, it won't conduct 20A either. The fact that some of your tools work on a particular breaker and others will not is not proof that the breaker is good. It is proof that some of your machines require a different start or run current than others. One thing is for certain, your two new breakers are not the same. If you look at trip curves, you will see a wide band of trip currents that could be true for a particular device. This is due to the fact that a high precision breaker is expensive to manufacture. You will also see that the current rating at the very lowest end of the spectrum of a particular model of 20A breaker will still sustain a typical
3 hp motor.

By the way, 12AWG wire will drop the voltage of a circuit by less than 3% conducting 20A of current over 100 feet. I just checked it on a couple of on line calculators I use from time to time. That would certainly be acceptable in this case.

Laguna certainly could have some other reason for over-specifying the current rather than customer error but it I just can't see it ... and I have been doing this kind of investigation for a long time.

[lowell holmes]

And sometimes, breakers need to be replaced if they are old.

[Wade Lippman]

The fact that some of your tools work on a particular breaker and others will not is not proof that the breaker is good. It is proof that some of your machines require a different start or run current than others.

You've got it now! Perhaps Laguna has found their BS is one of those that requires more start current than a 20a breaker can often handle, and so they recommend 30a.


By the way, 12AWG wire will drop the voltage of a circuit by less than 3% conducting 20A of current over 100 feet. I just checked it on a couple of on line calculators I use from time to time. That would certainly be acceptable in this case.

Sure, but we are talking about 60a of starting current. Still 3%?