Need Advice on Next Tool Purchase (Small Shop)

[Dustin Keys]

I'm saving up for my next significant tool purchase and need some direction on what it should be from those more experienced than myself. Budget is probably around $500. My shop is half of a two car garage (can move the car out as needed to have the whole garage while working). This is a hobby only, no intentions of doing commercial work. I just enjoy building stuff.

Here's what I have currently (leaving out marking tools and small stuff):

Circ Saw
Handheld Jigsaw
Router (Dewalt 618 with plunge and D bases) - no table currently
Old Delta/Rockwell 10" bandsaw (small, light duty, plastic wheels, etc)
Set of restored hand planes
Chisels
Hand saws
Workbench
Drills


What I don't have:


Tablesaw
Thickness Planer
Jointer
Drill Press
Compound Miter Saw


The usual advice for the next purchase is something along the lines of "what have you needed in prior projects that you didn't have" or "what do you need for your next project". There hasn't been a project I've done or am about to do where I couldn't use most of the tools on the "don't have" list. I can only purchase one at a time though, so which should come first?

A few additional notes:

My workbench is not against the wall, and I prefer to keep it that way as I'm always working around the whole bench and clamping stuff to it. I know I lose some floor space that way, but I still think it's the better choice.
I haven't been able to use the bandsaw yet (still restoring it). It has sentimental value, so it isn't going anywhere even though it has somewhat limited usefulness given it's size.
I currently avoid all projects that require more than very little thickness planing - tried that once by hand, and it wasn't any fun.
I tend towards smaller projects as they are more economical for learning. Will do bigger stuff as my skills and wood budget increase.
I planned on operating without a TS, but I needed to borrow one for a few tricky cuts on my last project and it was really nice. My handsawing skills just weren't up to the task for the cuts I needed to make. Maybe I need to saw by hand better? Maybe I need to get a TS? Both?
I enjoy working with the hand tools more than anything, but I'm realizing the efficiency of the tailed tools for a lot of tasks can't be beat.
I'm open to mobile tools as long as they don't take long to set up when I want to use them.


Thanks for your help!

[Matt Schroeder]

If you do much work with sheet goods I would look at the DeWalt track saw and get the router adapter (or go with another manufacturer's offering). I have the DeWalt system and find it great for breaking down sheets and finish sizing parts, straightening an edge of a solid board (with the saw or a router depending on the amount of wood that has to come off), making dados for case construction, and it stores away easily in my one bay of a garage shop. Many will suggest that all of these tasks can be accomplished with home made jigs and that is very true. However, I am limited in the amount of time I can spend on the hobby and prefer to make things the wife can use instead of things only I will use, so I chose to spend some money on the tools. Even though I have a table saw it is easier for me to drop a sheet of ply on a few 2x4s laid on the floor after pulling out a car and go to town with the track saw than trying to hoist the sheets onto the table saw. Dust collection with my shop vac is quite good--when I remember to hook up the hose...

Another option would be a surface planer and make a sled with shims that allows it to face joint one side before planing to thickness. I had a jointer but sold it to reclaim floor space when I built a sled for the planer (yes, the wife doesn't use this one but I needed the floor space so it was a worthwhile time investment). I edge joint by hand or with the aforementioned track saw. I have the Makita 12" planer and like it very much.

Feel free to shoot any questions my way, and I'll be looking forward to hearing what you choose to do.

Matt

[Jim German]

What sort of wood do you like to work with, or can easily obtain? If you'd like to use rough lumber, you really need a jointer and a planer. Keep in mind that you really need both to take rough stock and make it S4S. However most good lumberyards can joint and plane the wood for you for a small fee.

On your list the CMS is significantly cheaper than the other ones. A good new 12" CMS like the Dewalt DW715 is only $230. I would (and did) get one of those first, its useful for a ton of projects around the home in addition to doing woodworking. Of course if you like cutting wood by hand, its not going to be a big help.

A tablesaw is the pretty standard first big tool for most shops. But it will also be the biggest and the most in the way in a small shop. I would also suggest not skimping on one. $500 is pushing it, but you may be able to find a good used cabinet saw for that price. I've found using a cheap saw to be extremely frustrating.

I'd say skip the drill press, its certainly handy to have, and its great to be abel to make a perfectly perpendicular hole, but most of the time I just grab my cordless drill anyway.

[Jerry Miner]

This is such a subjective question. It all depends on the work you want to do and the way you want to do it. Some people are all hand tools. Some, all power-tools. Most of us are in the middle somewhere. If you're carving duck decoys, that's one thing---building kitchen cabinets, another. Birdhouses or Louis XIV reproductions. There are so many variations.

In my shop, the tablesaw is the heart of it all. I use it for every project I do. So for me, that's tool #1. But some people never use a tablesaw. You have to decide what you want to do and how you want to do it.

[scott spencer]

I'd be lost without my TS. It's the heart and soul of my shop. $500 just about gets you into a decent full size saw with a belt drive induction motor. The Delta 36-725 has a darn good fence for an entry level saw.

[Rick Potter]

Many will disagree, but from what you describe, I would recommend getting a used shopsmith. Doesn't take up a lot of room, does a lot of things, if you are in no rush. Get a clean used one, and you can always sell it when you outgrow it.

It is a great tool for beginners, kind of like a gateway drug. Check you tube for lots of videos.


PS: No, I am not a Shopsmith junkie, but I do see the value, especially for beginners. I have owned stuff from $5 routers, to Felders. They all have their place.

[glenn bradley]

I don't see dust collection. Is that already taken care of?

[Dustin Keys]

I looked up a track saw as I wasn't familiar. That doesn't look much different from using a straight edge clamped to the board as a fence which is how I've been working with sheet goods and the like. Is there a significant difference I'm missing? I've used that method to good effect with both the circ saw and router. That system breaks down when you need to make good straight cuts on smaller pieces of wood though, which I don't think the track saw would handle any better unless I'm missing something.

My interest in the CMS is primarily for around the house stuff as mentioned. I'm not sure how much usefulness it has for finer woodworking. There are plenty of times it would have been handy though.

The size of a TS was primarily why I wanted to work without one. I really don't have the space for one without making major changes and I'm not sure I really need it. There have been plenty of times where I could have used it though.

I have done almost all of my woodworking in pine thus far as it's readily available, cheap, and appropriate for much of what I've been doing. I have found a local sawmill though, so rough lumber is soon to be coming.

I don't have dust collection at this time. I have a shopvac, but haven't picked up the necessary components for DC. I primarily like to work with hand tools, so DC hasn't been a priority.

[Jim Matthews]

Second the portable DC.

Shop lighting?

What project comes up next?

You've already got most all the stuff I use.

I have a solid bandsaw that does whatever
I can't manage with a circular saw.

Have you taken any courses?

I find a basic woodworking course tends to cover a
method, as much as a project.

You can see pretty quickly what works for you,
without purchasing the tools.

It's like a test drive, before buying a car.

I dunno how far you are from Waco,
but http://www.sustainlife.org/heritage-school-of-woodworking/
seems to be pretty straightforward.

[John K Jordan]

Have you ever tried woodturning? So many people around the world get great enjoyment in small shops with not much more than a lathe, grinder, and good bandsaw. A one-day course at the local Woodcraft might let you know if you are a future famous woodturner.

For limited space and budget and casual use it's hard to beat one of the "portable" 10" table saws. I used one for years before I built a shop and got a good cabinet saw with a sliding table.

The bandsaw with sentimental value might retain some of that value if you give it to someone in the family. Or take it apart and make a work of art for the wall. A bandsaw is arguably the most useful saw in the shop. I use two, a 12" and 18" and use them almost daily. (Just a retired hobbyist here, mostly focused on woodturning.) You really need a good bandsaw, not a toy. My humble opinion.

I second the need for good dust collection. I know of three casual woodwokers who had to give it up completely after slowly ruining their lungs.

JKJ

[Bob Hoffmann]

A table saw -- without a doubt. What you have is good for cutting stuff ... but if you want accuracy and repeatability, the TS is the way to go.

You can do more with it then with a track saw, and they will almost cost the same ...

I would hold off on a DC -- it is good for stationary equipment -- but with all yo have is a Band Saw, it does not make sense -- at least in my opinion.

[Jesse Busenitz]

+1 on the table saw..... Out of all my tools I use it the most. It also gets used as a table with the blade lowered when my workbench gets full and I'm too lazy to clean it:D I mainly use it for ripping and sizing larger panels but I had to use it for some moulding since my miter saw was at a different job. I was surprised how easy it was to cut accurate small pieces with a good miter gauge setup.

[Allan Speers]

Dustin, my response will be a little different, and based on how I personally work. It's not for everybody:

The thing you need like crazy is a thickness planer. You don't need a jointer (ever) because you can get by with a planer-sled and some patience. Get one used. I highly recommend the Makita 2012NB. The Dewalt is nice, too, but the Makita is lighter, is easier to change blades on, and leaves a finish-ready surface.

That planer is going to eat up most of your budget, so there goes the tablesaw. Since you already have a circular saw, I HIGHLY recommend that you get a basic tracksaw system, and a good one. I personally use the Eurekazone, which will work with the CS you already own. I also suggest that you build a Eurekazone-type "smart table" with the sacrificial supports. I used one for about 8 years, and made countless precision cuts on it, after selling my Unisaw. Now I have the deluxe "EZ-One" table, but you don't NEED that. Believe me, the only NEED for a tablesaw is for using a dado stack, and that can be done with a router.

So, do this now. You can always get a TS later, when you have the money for a real one (Not a contractor's TS) and the tracksaw will still serve you well for easily breaking-down sheet goods.

For small pieces and deep-stock angles, which are a little tricky with even the Eurekazone, you can finally put that band saw to good use. Make yourself an extension table for it, and get a good fence, and you're off to the races. About $500 all-in should do it, if you buy the planer used. Well, more like $600, I think.

[Allan Speers]

I don't see dust collection. Is that already taken care of?


Good Point!

- But Dustin is desperately in need of a few machines right now, so He'd better invest in a decent mask, and wear it all the time.

[Matt Schroeder]

Dustin,

One advantage I see with the track system over a straight edge and circular saw is that the track either doesn't have to be clamped down (in some cases) or has clamps that fit in the bottom of the track so do not require as much extra material to clamp on--the clamps under the track sit where the saw is riding on top. With some extra blocking to hold up the ends of the track or keep it from tipping you can cut a 12" long, 4" wide piece when clamped safely. Of course, you can probably engineer something that will work with your current circular saw, and this specific cut is much easier on a table saw if you already have one straight edge--but if you are space constrained there are ways of using a track saw to do smaller scale work than you might expect. If you mainly build boxes and picture frames, or do a lot of small applied moldings it probably isn't your best choice. However, I have used mine to cut chair and table parts, even though I do have a table saw. Since I sold my jointer I find myself using the track saw to straighten edges of boards. That operation can be done on a table saw with a sled or by attaching a straight edge but I find it easier with the track saw in my shop. Coupling the option to do small scale work, the ability to straighten an edge when the opposite edge is not yet straight (a jointer operation in my jointer-less shop), and the ease of working with large panels using the track saw was my justification for purchasing it for my shop.

The track saw system also has some safety features I appreciate--a riving knife and anti-kickback pads. Some may say they aren't necessary, but I appreciate having them. The dust collection with my shop vac is quite good as well.

Matt

[Prashun Patel]

Everyone's journey's different. My advice is to get a tablesaw first. Get a used hybrid or cabinet with a riving knife. After a couple years you'll decide whether you want to invest more in a slider, or premium cabinet saw or whether you want to move into other methods of production. Starting out (safely) though, I think the TS is versatile, powerful, and efficient.

Next, I'd get a thickness planer. It'll change the way you buy wood. You might even opt for a jointer/planer combo. . If you have to choose I'd take a planer over a jointer, because it's possible to find other ways to joint many things (including hand planes). But thicknessing is a lot of work without a machine for it.

I would be on constant lookout for a used drill press. They come up often. Personally, I don't find the need to break the bank on this machine; mine's ok and it's precise enough for my likes.

A CMiter saw is nice for quick breaking down stock or cross cutting to length when ultra-precision is not key. The irony is that I prefer to cut everything BUT miters on my miter saw.

[Jim Dwight]

My suggestion is to watch some Ron Paulk you tube videos. He is a professional carpenter/home builder that has come up with his own way to use a Tracksaw. His workbench incorporates a small table saw. I'm not doing exactly that (I have a standalone table saw) but I think his system is interesting. I really like my tracksaw but I think I could get by without it easier than my table saw. But if you plan to get a tracksaw, then you don't need a $1000 table saw, you may not even need a $500 one. The table saw is better for narrow rips and joints. The tracksaw is better for wider rips, straightening boards, etc.. But a full sized table saw takes up a fair bit of physical and monetary space. I think $1000 split between a tracksaw and an admittedly less capable table saw lets me do more and more safety than if I just bought a better table saw. My table saw is a BT3100 (Ryobi). It is very accurate but small. But it doesn't have to do sheet good cut up any more so it serves me well. Something like it or even a job site saw like Paulk uses with a tracksaw fits better into a small space and budget than a hybrid table saw with extension rails.

But I will admit sometimes I day dream about a nicer table saw.

I also have a planner and a CMS and a radial arm saw. The CMS is more useful around the house, probably, however. It is "the tool" for trim work. I actually have two. A 10 inch single bevel (cost about $100) and a 12 inch dual bevel ($200+). I also use the 12 inch for precision cross cuts for furniture that are within it's 8 inch crosscut capacity.

I had a DC in my last shop, a little 1 hp Delta, but I currently plan to just keep using my shop vacuum which is on a little cart with an Oneida dust deputy (shopsmith plans modified a little). The cyclone gets nearly all the dust and all I have to do is dump the 4.5 gallon drywall bucket below it occasionally. The shop vacuum prior to the dust deputy was frustrating with frequent emptying and filter cleaning (it has a hepa filter) but with the dust deputy it works very well. I have a 5m Bosch hose (35mm) and the 2.5 inch hose it came with. The bigger hose works well with my table saw and router table and the other tools get the 36mm hose, some with the adapter. The main reasons to use the shop vacuum are space and the fact it works well with the tracksaw and other handheld tools.

[Mike Schuch]

My tool buying decisions have always been based on what has come along on the used market for a good deal. I spent many years without a table saw and cut everything on my radial arm saw, like I learned from my father. When an ancient Powermatic cabinet showed up in the classifide adds for a great price I was sick that morning... and my boss completely understood. That is also how I picked up my 15 inch planer. One tool I did buy new was a Harbor Freight 6" jointer on sale with a coupon for $150. That was a long time ago and that stupid HF jointer did an excelent job at everything I threw at it. I picked up my Walker Turner shaper for $200... not that I had ever really considered buying a shaper but I just couldn't pass up the deal. I love my WT shaper and it is even better when i picked up a 1hp power feeder for $100 ten years later. (Both the shaper and power feeder are 3ph)

Everything on your list makes sense to have in your shop. Familarize yourself with the different manufactures and models oft he tools on your list so you will know a good deal when it presents itself. Recognizing a good deal and acting on it without hesitation is the key to getting a good deal.

A $50 4" jointer or a $150 6" jointer can open up whole new worlds of of woodworking. I spent 20 years with my HF 6" jointer before I received my fathers 8" jointer. I sold my 6" to a friend for $100. He loves it!

Don't sell your 10" bandsaw short. There is a lot of functionality in a 10 bandsaw and it can save you a good amount of time on many projects. You aren't going to be resawing any large hunks of wood... but I had a Jet 18" bandsaw and found resawing over rated.

A table saw is a great luxery and time saver... I love my table saw and haven't ripped anything on my radial arm saw since I purchased it. My father cut everything on his 10" Delta turret arm radial arm saw for 40 years until he stumbled across a Rockwell 10" comtractors saw for $75. That Rockwell cuts every bit as well as my Powermatic cabinet saw... I use it often since I gave it to my GF.

I didn't really need a CMS as I have an excellent Redstar 16" radial arm saw. I did eventually pick up a Rigid 10 CMS for $50. I gave the Rigid to my little sister when I picked up my 12" Dewalt CMS. I wish I gave her the 12" and kept the 10". The 10" was just SO MUCH NICER for packing around even if it is just packing around to different places in the house. My 12" Dewalt is a fine acurate saw but it is considerably heavier. But anything that didnt fit on the 10" CMS I could easy cut on my 16" RAS.

[Mike Cutler]

Dustin

I would say that the table saw should be next.
If you have some mechanical aptitude, and are willing to put in some elbow grease time, you'd be stunned at the quality of a used table saw that can be had for $500.00, even a used 10-15 year old contractor can be purchased cheap!!, and it will do what you need to too, with maybe a little extra time.

There are many tricks that can be substituted to perform the edge jointing function of a jointer. A planer with a sled can perform the initial face jointing function of a jointer. If it comes to picking between a Jointer or a Planer, pick the planer. You'd also be surprised at how cheap a used planer can be too.

[Cary Falk]

I use my table saw the most. I would never buy a track saw above a table saw. They are expensive and not as versatile as a table saw. The planer and jointer would be next on my list. My miter saw gets used the least and the drill press only slightly more. It all depends on the project.

[Joe Cowan]

Table Saw. Crosscut and rip in one machine. You can get by without a mitre saw as it only crosscuts.

[Brad Barnhart]

I'm kinda new here myself, but not to woodworking. If you don't mind, I'd like to throw my .02/worth in. When I first started in this awesome hobby, my shop was in our basement, in a room 8' x 12'. One window for fresh air, and a single light bulb in the middle of the ceiling. Not to mention, ONE electrical socket. I had to get creative. My first tools were a RAS, an electric drill & a few bits, a router w/a few bits, a circular saw, a pad sander, a claw hammer, & a 4' level. Now, at the time my loving bride made the decision I needed to get into this hobby, I was still drivin' OTR. The woman she was working for at the time had just lost her husband, who, at that time, was in construction. So, We bought what tools of his she'd sell, & so on. You may laugh at me when I suggest a few things here, & that's ok. But, when you have limited space to work with, & and a tight budget to boot, you work with what you have. You mentioned you have $500 burnin' a hole in your pocket. My suggestion, leave it there for now. You have a circular saw. With some ingenuity, patience, & creativity, you've got your table saw sittin' in front of ya, brother. You can make a fence with a piece of hardwood & a couple clamps. You've got hand planes. Learn to use them efficiently. Especially if your working primarily w/pine. Learn to sharpen them, & keep them in good shape. You have a router also. You can do most anything with that router, & the right bits that you can do on the TS, & MORE! You can go to you tube, there are several videos on how to build a router sled to use your router as a planer. Use your hand planes to touch up, & edge plane. You said you've got a 10'' band saw. For a few bucks, in the right place, get a couple different types of blades for it. It'll amaze you at what you can do with it. Handsaws, learn to keep them clean & sharp. You can make jigs for them just like anything else. Looks like you have chisels. Drills? what's your bit selection? I didn't see any hammers listed, nor screwdrivers. Have you considered fasteners & glue? Stains? dust masks? How's the lighting in your work area? Shop lights can be bought pretty cheap at the Big Box stores. A sander of any kind? sand paper? You can get a cheap one at HF. Sandpaper is cheaper the more you buy. This all looks like a lot, but its material equipment. The main idea of my ".02 worth" is that all them big shiny tools are nice to have around, but if you don't have the room nor the funds, save your money til you can afford the tools ya WANT, not JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as your other Christmas list, the main one I'd look at first is a planer, or a Radial Arm Saw. You can make sleds to edge plane if you have to for the planer. As far as the miter saw, I'd cross that off your list completely. Once you figure out what type of projects you want to construct, you'll figure out you can do most everything other ways. What about clamps? My apologies if I've offended anybody with this, but, I've been in the op's shoes. I still have a small shop. 260 sq. ft. We've since added tools to our arsenal since we've moved from our basement. Very few of our tools are brand new, but they are extremely well taken care of. We live on a fixed income, & our budget is very tight. Maintenance on our equipment is of upmost importance. I don't buy tools I can't fix myself, or make the parts for, unless they are machined pieces. Its not easy getting started. It takes time, patience, ALOT of LISTENING & READING. Enjoy your day.

[Matthew Hills]

route#1:
1. fix the bandsaw
2. see where you are then
rationale: bandsaw not currently helping; seems like it could be a good complement to other tools/skills and getting some projects through that could help clarify what you enjoy doing

route #2:
1. get a table saw
2. build a sled
rationale: tablesaw is good for controlled cuts, particularly on smaller projects like you indicated. sled is invaluable for getting the squared crosscuts that you'll want for good joinery. Used contractor likely most budget-friendly and provides good sized table, but you might need to tune it up a bit. Might recommend something like a Bosch portable model as being a better fit for your space and can wheel outside for the dust issue.

If you are going to use the router, recommend building a simple router table (http://www.startwoodworking.com/post/how-build-simple-router-table).

useful, but lower priority:
drill press - I get good (but not too frequent) use out of a 9" craftsman
planer - take drudgery out of thicknessing (buy flat s4s for now)

I'd probably recommend against:
CMS - I'd expect that you'd know if you had a project that really needed this. any friends have one that you can borrow?
jointer - you can get by with your hand tools
track saw - very nice for sheet goods, but didn't seem like you were doing a lot of that, and circ saw+homemade guide okay for initial breakdown

Matt

[Silas Smith]

Whatever route you choose, buy used! $500 and patience checking craigslist and ebay for local pickup only has easily got me 5X the value. Anything on your list will be well used through time, but only if you buy quality.

[John Lankers]

Lots of guys suggesting to get a table saw, so do I.
I believe with your budget get a Bosch job site table saw with the folding undercarriage (or similar but avoid the cheapos) and before you attack any projects build yourself a good crosscut sled and a rip sled. This way you can eliminate the miter saw, do quality rips and even perform edge jointing tasks. It is also capable of cutting dados, tenons and make raised panels. You might also want to invest in a decent combination blade while you're at it.
Don't worry about a router table at this time, you could just screw the router to a plywood base and use a length of 2 by for a fence and the best router tables are usually the homebuilt ones anyway.

[Phil Mueller]

If I had to describe my current project approach, it would be (for the most part) to purchase rough lumber (less expensive), use power to rough size and square it up, and go to hand tools for all the rest...with the exception of a router for profiles, round overs, etc.

I too have very limited space.

With that in mind, I have a contractor's table saw (Dewalt) to rough out length and width. I don't have the room for a cabinet or hybrid and this allows me to use it and then move it out of the way. I did tune it up well, buy a few good blades, and make or purchase multiple jigs. If this saw died, I'd purchase another.

I use a surface planer on every project. I first hand plane one side flat and then run it through the planer. It's also a Dewalt. If this died, I'd replace it.

From there, it often becomes hand saws, chisels, planes, and the like. I do use the TS for tenons. I have actually been investing in better hand tools over the past year or so...so with better saws and practice, I think I can replace the TS for that and even rough dimensioning.

I bought a bench top drill press. Handy now and then, but if it died, I would not replace it.

I bought a CMS. If it died, I would not replace it.

One other power tool I do find convenient is a 10" disk sander. Nice to fine tune a length or something from time to time. If this died, I would replace with one that also has a spindle sander. However, I have been known to put my belt sander upside down in my vise or a sanding drum in my hand held drill...works pretty well.

I do see the value in a band saw. I don't think I'll invest in one...but if it's not much to get yours running well, I think I would give that high consideration.

I do keep a little reserve in my wallet. If working on a project, if it seems a special tool or jig would be helpful...and useful over time, I'll splurge.

Good luck with your decisions...