Shop Smith - Just as a drill & lathe?

[Allan Speers]

I'd very much like to add a drill press to my shop. I don't NEED a lathe, and I'm insane to even consider one given how little space I have, but I sure would LIKE to own a lathe.

Yeah, I know, serious w-workers love to rag on Shop Smith, and I understand the typical reasons. However, I'd ONLY be using it for the above 2 tasks, and I can bring home a model 10ER tomorrow, seemingly complete and running well, for $100.

I can't buy a decent drill press for $100. Plus, I like the concept of horizontal boring, for many tasks.
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So... Can anyone tell me what the limitations are of this machine, for just those two functions?


1: One that I see is that the vertical drill doesn't quite have the capacity of a floor-standing DP. I believe the SS is limited to about 34" Would you consider this to be a potential problem?


2: There is a video on Youtube where a 10ER owner actually kludged-on some pulleys, to bring the speed down to where he felt it was good for drilling. Is the stock unit actually way too fast to be a proper DP?


3: As a lathe, it is probably a little underpowered, Yes? - but then again, for $100?

[Marion Smith]

I have a 1957 SS greenie, and one from the 80's. I have turned things too numerous to remember with them. I've made lil seam ripper handles on it, and I've spun the longest hunk of 4 x 4 Douglas fir I could squeeze in it to turn a lamp post for the end of our driveway. 95% of anything I've turned came out just fine, the other 5% went POW, just like on an expensive lathe. No, you can't turn a bowl as big as a truck tire on it, but you can make lots of neat stuff on it. $100 is a no brainer, even if it serves no other purpose than to get you hooked on turning, and then move up to something else later.

[Allan Speers]

Thanks, Marion.

After some research, I'm pretty sure it's the model 10ER, (info added, above.) so no varispeed. Would that make any difference?

(I actually prefer the 10ER ergonomically, since you can make a modified base that takes up very little room in DP mode.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErSBgATkQo

[Michelle Rich]

what is the lowest speed it will spin? if you are going to do modestly large bowls, you will need 300-400 and even less to start rounding the block. $100 for a horizontal borer would be $$ well spent

[Mike Heidrick]

I would not buy a shopsmith without variable speed. Thats one of its main features. Wait for another - look for at least a MarkV and a 510 would be even better.

I also like min for the disc sanding feature. You can clamp your work to a index block on teh table and bring the disc to the work and get repeatable sanding. Also the add on 6X48 sander and the bandsaw and even teh scrollsaw (newer big one) are all great accessories.

[Charles Lent]

I have a 10ER and mostly all I ever use it for is a lathe, but I don't do very much turning, so it has been acceptable for me so far. It will make a fair drill press, if you can get your position locks to hold. My son made replacement lock cams out of brass and now my 10ER works like it should. The old cast aluminum cams didn't hold well enough at all. As a lathe, drill press, or horizontal boring machine it does pretty well. As a table saw it is downright scary. I only did that once.

Charley

[Ronald Blue]

+ 1 on what Mike said. I don't know where you are located but they come up relatively often at reasonable prices. They are better machines than some people want you to believe, and they are still fully serviceable and parts are available. It does bug me that people hide there locations. You could at least list a state,

[Rick Potter]

I would hold out for a MK V. Variable speed is really important. About making a base, be aware that the MK V unbolts from the leg system, and you can make a different base for it also.

You also mentioned the 34" height, if you need bigger with either, that is when you start thinking horizontal boring. You can drill the end of a 16 footer that way.

[Allan Speers]

Well, you guys made me hesitate, for sure. No one bought it today, so I can still pick it up, but hmmmm.

Rick, good point about horizontal boring giving more capacity. That's a huge thing.

This machine does NOT have the optional vari-speed pulley system, which is why I didn't jump on it. Of course, it DOES have 3 speed, just mechanical changing. As far as the correct speed for drilling & lathe work, it seems to me that BOTH of those tasks fall into the same basic speed range, so as long as I don't ask any more out of the machine, I could at worst just change one pulley. - Or get a 3-ph motor & VFD, or get a used DC motor & controller. And finally, there's a company online that still makes complete multi-speed retrofit sheave systems, nicer than the original factory option.

So really, I don't think spindle speed is a factor at all.

Better-than-stock spindle bearings are also available, and these early machines used two bearings, unlike the early Mark V's, so no worries about runout unless the spindle itself isn't true.

Regarding the lathe, OK, it's a little light, and a little underpowered, but I just want to turn chair legs & such. If I ever get into bowls, I could get a larger motor, because unlike the later models), the 10ER uses a separate induction motor. I know the tool rest banjo is not well regarded, but I could always get their new banjo (very highly regarded) for $200.

For more weight, I figure I could build little shelves into the legs, and add some cinderblocks. That's not the same as a big hunk of cast iron, but it surely would help.
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So... does it still sound like a bad way to spend $100? I'm so on the fence, my butt hurts.

[Allan Speers]

More info, because I really need more input:

This machine does have the (often missing) sanding disk, which would come in handy, and it also has the scroll saw attachment.

I don't think I'd use the scroll saw attachment, but I bet I could sell it for close to what the whole machine would cost me. Hence, a drill and lathe for almost free.

[Charles Lent]

If you are buying the model 10ER be careful. It was made by a company called Magnum Tool. The present Shop Smith company bought the rights from them and then redesigned the whole tool. You can get spare parts for most Shop Smiths, but you won't find any parts for the 10ER, except from a machine shop (or you can buy a second one to get spare parts).
That's why I had my son make me the the wedges out of brass that lock the assemblies to the pipes. The present Shop Smith company will send you a manual and parts list for it though.

Charley

[Jeff Ramsey]

Thanks, Marion.

After some research, I'm pretty sure it's the model 10ER, (info added, above.) so no varispeed. Would that make any difference?

(I actually prefer the 10ER ergonomically, since you can make a modified base that takes up very little room in DP mode.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErSBgATkQo

i also have a greenie from the 50's and I only use it for a drill press (at times), lathe and belt/disc sander (seldom); I've never used it as a saw. I would not buy an 10ER. There are so many used Mark V units for sale privately on CL, sometimes guys give them away. The variable speed motor is worth waiting for.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

Add my vote to the "buy a Mark V" side. I have three of them. The nicest one cost $200 and came with a good condition band saw. The second one I bought is a greenie that had the drill chuck and sanding disk, for $100. The last one one came with TWO bandsaws and some accessories for $225. So they are out there if you watch and wait.

The Mark V is an excellent drill press for wood working. With the fence attached to the table you can move the table in and out with respect to the drill bit for precise positioning.

It it is also an excellent disk sander. Horizontal boring is a great feature.

hold out for the Mark 5. Much better than the older ER model.

PS The reason I have three of them is because I'm renovating a house I bought next-door, and I have two of them over there… Eventually I may turn one into a mini dedicated for drill press/ disk sanding.

[john lawson]

I have owned own a Shopsmith 10ER for over 30 years, and it is a great machine. Don't buy into the need for a Mark V or a 510. The 10ER has more steel and iron than the newer ones and for drill press or lathe it is excellent. They are right about parts not being available, except on ebay, where they are fairly plentiful.

I put a VFD on mine for less than $100 so I have variable speed on mine. I have a lot of expensive woodworking tools. If I could have only one it would be the 10ER

[Jim Finn]

I have owned own a Shopsmith 10ER for over 30 years, and it is a great machine. Don't buy into the need for a Mark V or a 510. The 10ER has more steel and iron than the newer ones and for drill press or lathe it is excellent. They are right about parts not being available, except on ebay, where they are fairly plentiful.

I put a VFD on mine for less than $100 so I have variable speed on mine. I have a lot of expensive woodworking tools. If I could have only one it would be the 10ER

Vairable speed for $100? How can I do that? What motor is required for this?

[john lawson]

I bought a new 3/4 hp baldor 3phase motor off ebay, you can buy one locally for very little if you watch craigslist, sometimes you can get them for free because they are three phase. I bought a single phase to three phase vfd from DealerElectric (I believe it was them) for $84 at the time, a few years ago.

I was a little nervous because I don't know much about electricity, but I was able to wire it with no problem. I keep the the 10er on the middle belt setting and have 0-3600 rpm speed control. I don't remember the exact number now but the low setting is like 0-550 rpm and the top setting is 0-to over 10000rpm.

It's really nice, very quiet and perfect for the lathe or drill press.

[Matt Radtke]

I have a 10er. I bought it used for about $150 and it came with the appropriate speed changer, though it required a bit of work to get it to a useable state. I used it stock for a good 6 months until I got the speed changer working correctly.

I would suggest you buy it for $100 assuming everything is in good shape. Mine has served me very well as just a drill, lathe, horizontal boring machine, and sander.

The best upgrade I have ever done was to bolt on a variable speed DC motor on it. Now in the low speed, high torque position, I have 100-3000RPM.

The advantage to a 10er vs. the newer Mark V's is the 10er is a simpler machine. It's easy to repair. That which cannot be bought can be easily fabricated by a buddy with lathe and mill. I did this with the carriage locks. Took me about an hour to remake them. It also has the more robust, dual bearing spindle by default. Many have used the 10er as a light duty (aluminum and brass) mill.

[Rick Potter]

OK, let me jump in again.

1: It's $100. Buy it, use it, then decide to keep, upgrade, sell or replace it. What do you have to lose???

2: Then, go over that list above where you mention all the improvements you could make to it. Put a dollar figure next to each improvement. Study it. Burn the list.

3: Finally, after using #1 for a while, you will either love it as is, want improvements, or decide you really need a MK V. I repeat..........What do you have to lose? You can always sell it for the $100.

[Allan Speers]

I bought a new 3/4 hp baldor 3phase motor off ebay, you can buy one locally for very little if you watch craigslist, sometimes you can get them for free because they are three phase. I bought a single phase to three phase vfd from DealerElectric (I believe it was them) for $84 at the time, a few years ago.

I was a little nervous because I don't know much about electricity, but I was able to wire it with no problem. I keep the the 10er on the middle belt setting and have 0-3600 rpm speed control. I don't remember the exact number now but the low setting is like 0-550 rpm and the top setting is 0-to over 10000rpm.

It's really nice, very quiet and perfect for the lathe or drill press.

See, that's what I'm talking about ! - or a DC motor, as Matt used. Plus, If I do this, I'd go for 1.5 - 2 HP, just so I can thumb my nose at Mark V owners ! - just kidding, but if I bolt the SM to the floor, I might be able to turn some decent bowls, and for that it could HURT to have a little more torque. This is especially true if you're lowering the speed via a VFD. I'm thinking that a 2 HP, 3-ph motor, running at 40% speed on a VFD, should still give plenty of torque.

The 10ER is considered by many users, who have owned both, superior to the Mark V when used as a DP and lathe, because it has a lot of cast iron. (As John Lawson points out, above.) It also has a dual-bearing spindle, which Mark V's earlier than 1985 do not, and modern top-quality bearings are easy to retrofit.

I do understand the advantages of the Mark V as well, (Thanks, guys ) and so it's a difficult decision. Both machines use proprietary parts, so both would require similar mods to make them more universal. I'm actually leaning hard towards the 10ER, but with the knowledge going in that it will take some $$$$ and time to modify it properly. I think that with the right mods, it can actually be the superior machine, and do the two tasks I need from it extremely well.

I would NEVER consider using a ShopSmith as a tablesaw, jointer, or even jigsaw, but for just drilling and limited lathe work (plus the large disk sander) I'm liking the idea more & more. Dunno if I'd ever use that scrollsaw attachment, but I'll give it a try.

More on this later, as I have to decide this week.

[Charles Lent]

There was a Reeves Drive accessory for the 10ER, but it's not likely that you will ever find one. I don't think many of them were ever sold. The Youtube video posted earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErSBgATkQo covers a jack shaft type of DIY upgrade that could be done to give it more and slower speeds by changing belt/pulley positions much like done on many drill presses. The upgrade looks simple enough to make just from watching the video, if you are mechanically inclined.

Charley

[Allan Speers]

There was a Reeves Drive accessory for the 10ER, but it's not likely that you will ever find one.


Wow, I had to do a lot of digging, Charley, but I found that aftermarket drive. It seems the company that made it is no longer in business, so ......

Well, I prefer the idea of a variable-speed motor, anyway.

[john lawson]

Here is what my 10ER looks like with the Baldor motor and VFD

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