sanding off the stain between coats

[mark mcfarlane]

I'm building a small prototype table with a schedule of transtint dye, Seal-A-Cell sealer, gel stain, and top coat. I cannot figure out how to avoid lightening the dye and gel stain on the edges of the legs and top when I sand between coats. It's a really small table (1/2 the size of a TV tray) with tapered legs that I lightly chamfered with a block plane. I redid the dye twice to fix edges, and redid the gel stain twice to cover up the edges. Now I'm thinking of putting the ARM-R-SEAL over the last gel stain coat without sanding,... I sanded really lightly, just making two passes over the wood with the grain, being as careful (perhaps not enough) to not apply pressure at the edges.

What's the trick?

[Dustin Brown]

I'm no finishing expert by any means, but I have stained and used arm-r-seal as a top coat. I have never sanded any project after sanding either. I just raise the grain and scuff sand, apply the stain wipe off and let it dry. Then I apply 3 wipe on coats of arm-r-seal about 30 minutes apart. After several hours or possibly the next day, I will then level sand the surface being careful to avoid possibly burning through any areas. Wipe clean and continue building coats as normal.

I wouldn't worry about sanding after staining, just try to pre raise the grain and lightly scuff sand before using the dye. You can smooth things out after a few coats of finish. Unless I'm missing something?

[John TenEyck]

As said, do not sand until after applying one or two coats of Arm-R-Seal. When you do sand, you should be using 325 grit, or finer. You are just trying to remove the dust nibs, and all that's needed to do that is a couple of very light swipes.

John

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks Dustin and John. I did pre-raise the grain before the first water-based dye coat. First time I have used dye. The wood actually looked awesome after only the dye, I am kind of wishing I had stopped there :), 4 days ago.

The instructions I was following said to sand after the dye. http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/mission_oak_rev1-2011.pdf. It did not say to sand after the gel stain, but I think I read that somewhere else,...

[John TenEyck]

Ahhh, you have a special case there. With QS white oak sanding after dying helps increase the contrast between with the ray flecks and normal grain. But there's no technical requirement to do so, and definitely no reason to do so when working with other woods. Similarly, there's no reason to sand after applying gel stain, and every reason not to. All that will do is increase the risk of cutting through the stain and exposing light wood underneath, as you've experienced.

John

[Jim Becker]

If I have some "nubbies" that need dealt with after applying dye, I'll take a quick swipe with 400 wet and dry (dry) to deal with them without actually "sanding". From there, I clean off any dust and proceed. I use the same technique after the first clear coat to take care of any additional grain raise.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks John. Although the formula is for QSWO my table is actually made from some scraps of flat sawn red oak left over from some bookcases I made last summer vacation, flat sawn except for a few sides of the legs :). I built the table as a test to see how it 'felt' to build furniture with a TS55/Domino/MFT rig, and to try a finishing technique beyond pigment and poly.

I learned a lot over the week, notably:



The Domino is a pretty awesome machine. Only made one mistake with it :)
You can't find flat boards at the borg, a jointer-planer is on the must have list.
I'm gonna have to slice a lot of wood before I get any good using a block plane. And yes, I really need to go buy stones and sharpen it, out of the box my new Wood River low-angle block plane tore out too much oak trying to flatten the table top.
The TS55 works pretty well, worked great for tapering the table legs with a few clamps and a scrap of wood,... but I couldn't get perfect 90s on 1.5" stock (actually glued-up 3/4" scraps for the legs). With a little more practice, and properly dimensioned lumber I might be able to make the TS55/MFT cut as accurate as a table saw,...
I loved working with the Transtint dye, and wipe on GF sealer and topcoat.
Don't sand after dyeing/staining
Schedule 4X the amount of time you think it is going to take.
I need a lot more lighting in my garage. I have a gradation in the gel stain along the edges that I couldn't see at 2AM under a single 2-bulb 4' fixture.

[mark mcfarlane]

If I have some "nubbies" that need dealt with after applying dye, I'll take a quick swipe with 400 wet and dry (dry) to deal with them without actually "sanding". From there, I clean off any dust and proceed. I use the same technique after the first clear coat to take care of any additional grain raise.

Thanks Jim.

I just wiped on the second coat of ARM-R-SEAL. I'm thinking of adding one or two more to the table top. Should I hit it with some maroon synthetic steel wool I have lying around before the final coat? All I have handy is that, or 320 dry paper. I need to finish tomorrow morning before catching a plane.

[Jim Becker]

There is no harm in very gently going over a project piece with a pad to remove any remaining "nubbies" before going to that final coat. I do that on every project. It 'is' important to be sure you clean things before spraying that last coat, however, especially if you "did the rubdown"... ;)

[Michelle Rich]

the synthetic wool is great to use if you have any "nubbies" i use it a lot..and your list about light is a pretty universal issue with finishing..I bought a few of those cheap metal shade lamps in the hardware store, that have clamps (about $5 each) and use them clamped and I walk around the furniture with one in my hand to see all around. Works well.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thank you Jim and Michelle for the help.