Gas price went up 8¢ a gallon yesterday....

[Dennis Peacock]

Is it going up this quick when you are? It has gone up almost 25¢ per gallon since the end of July and looks like, at this rate, we'll be at $3 per gallon by the end of August at this rate. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Jim DeLaney]

Yeah, it's up 15¢ so far this week. $2.39.9/gal here in NE Ohio.

Every time I see the prices go up, though, I remember that a few years ago, when I was in Japan, I paid ¥118 per liter. At ¥120 per $1.00, that was about $3.80 per gallon, so I guess we still don't have it all that bad...

[Bart Leetch]

Yeah, it's up 15¢ so far this week. $2.39.9/gal here in NE Ohio.

Every time I see the prices go up, though, I remember that a few years ago, when I was in Japan, I paid ¥118 per liter. At ¥120 per $1.00, that was about $3.80 per gallon, so I guess we still don't have it all that bad...


Your right Jim & neither does the oil cartel.

[Brian Austin]

... so I guess we still don't have it all that bad...
And the oil companies are hoping you'll continue to feel that way.

Every time this happens they say that there is nothing they can do about it and it's not changing their bottom line at all...yet they're sitting on record profits with all of this right now.

I've pretty much parked my diesel for now (drive it maybe once a week) with prices around $2.89/gal. Regular unleaded is breaking $2.50/gal here but is expected to continue climbing. CA is over $3.00 for diesel and very, very close for gas.

[Kurt Aebi]

7 Cents here at the VT, NH Border, just yesterday alone!

[Scott Coffelt]

up 10 cents here last night, now $2.50+, was $2.20 a couple weeks ago.

[Kevin Brown]

up .20 here yesterday now $2.66 thats about a .39 increase over the last two weeks :eek:

[Ken Garlock]

Gas is 2.39 in McKinney TX.

One financial man, a certified financial planner, claims that the price of oil is due to the hedge funds. These funds buy a lot of oil futures, then buy enough "long" at an even higher prices to make the going price higher. Finally they cash out at the newer higher prices, and we are stuck at the gas pump. It seems that hedge funds are not regulated by the same rules as mutual funds, and the stock exchange.

Hedge funds are not for everyone, it takes 6 or 7 digit money to get in. :(

I have not looked into this in detail, but I did hear Neil Cavuto on Fox mention hedge funds as being the culprit briefly last Saturday during this program. He was quickly poo-poo'd by his guests.

I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ;)

[Jeff Cybulski]

$2.39 this morning in Tulsa

[Jim O'Dell]

Gas was up 9 to 10 cents per this morning, depending on which station you looked at. Right at $2.45 in west Fort Worth. There are some cheaper places, but not in my path to and from the house. Jim.

[Michael Gabbay]

Don't get me started on this.... :mad:


I removed my political rant based on Aaron's reminder. Sorry for the violation :o .


Mike

[Aaron Koehl]

REMINDER:

We do not allow discussion of politics on this forum, please bear this in mind, folks, so I don't have to move this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terms.php

[Norman Hitt]

Gas is 2.39 in McKinney TX.

One financial man, a certified financial planner, claims that the price of oil is due to the hedge funds. These funds buy a lot of oil futures, then buy enough "long" at an even higher prices to make the going price higher. Finally they cash out at the newer higher prices, and we are stuck at the gas pump. It seems that hedge funds are not regulated by the same rules as mutual funds, and the stock exchange.

Hedge funds are not for everyone, it takes 6 or 7 digit money to get in. :(

I have not looked into this in detail, but I did hear Neil Cavuto on Fox mention hedge funds as being the culprit briefly last Saturday during this program. He was quickly poo-poo'd by his guests.

I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ;)

Unfortunately, when Wall Street gets involved, it adds many more "Middlemen" into the production/refining/distribution chain. If there was a requirement that any buyer of Crude Oil must Refine it before reselling, you would be absolutely amazed at how much cheaper and stabil the prices would be at the pump. I hate these prices at the pump, and they are affecting me adversely, but looking realistically at the pricing, until Wall Street "Re-Discovered" oil and Oil Futures, the oil companies had increased their prices at a much lower rate than the average economy, ie; when I was a kid, gas prices were normally just under.20 per gallon, (when there wasn't a gas war on which went as low as .09 to.11/gal) and at that time a Coca Cola (which is fairly representative of edible comodities), was .05 in the machine. Well, now, a coke in a machine mostly runs 1.00 to 1.50 which is an increase of 2,000% at the 1.00 price, or 3,000% at 1.50. Until about a year ago when gasoline was still staying around 1.00/gal, that would have made an increase in the gasoline price over the last 50 years of only 500%. Now with the entry of Wall Street into the picture, AND the new and ever growing appetite for oil/gasoline in China and other developing countries, we are now experiencing Major Competition to purchase foreign oil, which we are now so dependant on, and it has become a worldwide "Sellers Market", and therefore has given us nearly a 150% increase in the price at the pump in just the last year, but still only a 1,500%, (at 2.50/gal) increase overall during the last 50 years. Does this knowledge ease my pain................Not on your life, Buuuut....I do understand it, and I really doubt we will see prices return to the 2.00 level or under unless there is a real slowdown in China, or on Wall Street. :( Do I think drawing down from our National Fuel Reserve would affect the pricing........maybe momentarily, but with the conditions stated above, I think it would be like trying to stop the bleeding from a cut artery with a band-aid, and it would make us Very vulnerable to anyone with bad intentions toward us if we did not have that reserve to be able to operate our Military, should there be a disruption in the foreign oil supply.

Sorry so long, but I've got to do something with my mind, since I can't afford to Drive anywhere. :D

PS: $2.23.9/gal at the Cheapest place in town Tuesday morning, but $2.33.9 at the same Station this morning with almost all of the others at $2.39.9 or higher.

[Bob Nieman]

I just wish that there was some variety in the gas prices where I live. Every single station regardless of brand has the gas for the exact same price. If you see one that is different, you can be sure that by the next day it won't be. For years there was a station that doesn't have attendants or a store that had it for a few cents less at least, but even it has joined the single price bandwagon this year. The next two towns to the north generally have it for a similar, maybe slightly higher price, while the next town to the east always has it 20 cents less someplace and widely varying prices. I went to El Paso a couple weeks ago and could not believe that prices varied so much, even on a single corner! After 5 years I am used to one price everywhere (so I go where that price will get me 87 instead of 86 octane).

There are letters to the editor a plenty about price fixing and always the arguement that the town to the east has price wars (and we don't because?). At least I can take a bus to work (32 miles out of town), but it is getting crowded. I saw a picture of gas in California for $3.09/gal. Ouch

[Andrew Ault]

I paid $2.769 this morning for regular unleaded. I shopped around.

Diesel was at $3.099 at the same station.

I think I'll just ride my bicycle this weekend to the coffee place and local stores. It's just so convenient to jump in the truck and go to the store whenever I want something. I'd rather have the cash than buy more gas.

My crackpot idea: I've thought about buying a VW Vanagon with a blown motor (pretty common and very cheap) and putting an electric motor in it. I've seen a really well engineered conversion of one. The batteries go where the third row seat was and the rear load space is extended over the batteries - creating a large cargo area in the back. My neighbor is an EE and calculated that solar panels covering the roof could provide most of the power for my commute to work - it would still retain a plug in charging system but would charge at up to 800 watts while sitting in the sun. He's adding a solar charging system to his motorhome right now and is doing a really nice installation.

This would be fun, but I definitely have enough on my plate right now and can't afford the time. If gas goes up another buck, I'll be shopping for that bus, though.

For right now, I think I'll cut back driving and get a little exercise.

[Lee DeRaud]

Let's see, when I came to California in 1974, regular gas was about $0.60/gal and the CPI was 48. Now the CPI is 194.5, which makes that gallon of gas cost $2.42, just adjusted for inflation. The Arco station up the street is getting $2.54...not exactly my idea of "exorbitant price gouging", but what do I know?

[Gary Max]

Wait till you see the cost of heating your home this winter.
I have already bought my heating fuel for the winter and it was up 30% over last year.
And it is going up everyday.
We use propane and can perbuy it in the summer---the cost is not as high.
We started using propane 5 years ago and the cost has almost doubled.

[Chris Padilla]

$3 here for the premium stuff my BMW likes....

But, I think the Bay Area has the most expensive gas in the nation regardless....

[Tim Morton]

up 15 cents her in vermont this week to 2.39....and going up more from what they say....It costs me about 1200 a year per dollar a gallon....or about $25 a week. eventutally this thing is going to really start effecting us....

[Don Baer]

I filled up the Silverado the other day nad it cost me $65.00 for regular. Last week when I filles up it was $58.00. :eek:

I gues I need to spen more time in the shop and less time on the road. :cool:

[Tim Morton]

up 15 cents her in vermont this week to 2.39....and going up more from what they say....It costs me about 1200 a year per dollar a gallon....or about $25 a week. eventutally this thing is going to really start effecting us....

woops I was wrong...my daughter just came from the gas station and told me it was now $2.45, up another 6 cents from this morning..then she want on to say somethign about how expensive gas is and how unfair it is that her pay doesn't go up with it....she's SIXTEEN!!! I had to leave the room I was laughing so hard....

[John Miliunas]

Last weekend, it was 2.29. By Wednesday, up to $2.44. On the way home today, I noticed it is now $2.57!:mad: That's 11% in less than a week!:mad: Legalized raping of the public, IMHO. If soft drinks or beer or car prices go up 11%, I'll buy less or not buy at all. The oil products, unfortunately, I need to get to work and to keep my family warm this winter. And, I can't help but wonder how those less fortunate and the elderly are going to make it this winter. :(

[Gary Max]

Just think about it---the only thing going up faster than gas is FOOD.
Have you been watching the cost of milk?????

[Steve Clardy]

I left Missouri last saturday. Gas here at home WAS 2.08

I got into Arkieland to visit Terry Hatfield, then have a family reunion in Rogers.
Gas in Arkansas WAS 2.24
So I had enough to get back across the border sunday. Filled up south of Springfield Mo., at 2.19
I get home and Monday it is 2.34
Wife calls me from work, and tells me the station owner here in Edwards told Her gas is going up .20 that night. So here the price is now 2.54.
Price jumps from 2.08 to 2.54 in 4 days.:rolleyes: :o

[Bob Nieman]

This is supposed to make us feel better:

http://www.chartoftheday.com/20030827.gif

Somehow it didn't work for me.

[Don Palese]

Someday,Americans will wake up about gas prices ... Just the other day, Connaco-Phillips (Union 76) station annount their qtr. results ... up 56%

Now, I need to ask anyone who sells stuff ... If your cost of raw goods sky rockets and you say take you are trying to maintain the cost to your consumers ... will your profit still go up by 56% . Also, the automotive industry is lobbying congress to put an additional tax on Toyota and Honda. They claim they are supporting 'diesel' which is better for the environment than the Japanese hybrids .. Gee ...

This has been happening for the last 2 years ... shouldn't the government be payoing attention to excessive rip offs or are they just to busy being paid ???

BTW ... gas in Medford is about 2.65 for regular.

Good luck you your next puchase.

Don

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Old news by now...but 9 out of 10 stations that I drive past are up twenty cents sincce early Friday morning. The tenth is an 'unmanned' station...it may take them a couple days to catch up.

[Pat Monahan]

If it makes anyone feel better, gas was 82.7 cents (Canadian $) per litre earlier this week. Today it was 98.7 cents per litre. That's roughly $3.25US per US gallon - if I did the math right...then again, that could explain the large pile of scrap...
Pat

[Tom Stover]

This morning in the Louisville, Ky. area regular was $2.49 a gal. Go 20 miles away and the gas is $2.29. Maybe we will get some new exploration for oil now that the companies have gotten the billions to do it. They don't have to use any of their record profits for it.

[Keith Outten]

President Bush says it will take about 15 years to convert America to hydrogen fuel. This is a totally unexceptable timeframe.

[Jim Becker]

Also, the automotive industry is lobbying congress to put an additional tax on Toyota and Honda. They claim they are supporting 'diesel' which is better for the environment than the Japanese hybrids .. Gee ...

Interesting considering Ford is using Toyota's technology for their two hybrid SUVs...

I have not seen anything about this lobbying anywhere in the news and I follow the subject of hybrids pretty closely...we own one now and may actually buy another one "soon". Can you point to sources?
------

Keith, yes, getting to hydrogen and fuel cells is going to take a longer time than we like. The major issue right now is that it takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get from it. Science still needs to overcome that, but there are some promising technologies utilizing solar energy to "crack" molecules using lasers.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This might be somewhat off topic but I hope not......

I'm "oil field trash"......In the 50's and 60's my father and our family chased oil rigs around the country. That's what my father did for a living....work on oil rigs. I grew up in southern Illinois, Wyoming, Utah and Colorado. Both my younger brother and I started working on oil rigs during our sophomore years in HS as we could make as much money as our father working along side him. We both worked nights and went to HS days. So oil has been played a major role in my life and has been interest of mine since an early age.

In 1967 I wrote a term paper for a college prep English class. All of my reference materials came from the major oil producing companies. In the mid-60's they were predicting a major oil shortage in the future. They had discovered what was probably the greatest oil "field" known then. Trouble was it was in the shale formations lying below the states of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming. The characteristics of the shale and the form of oil therein, made it difficult to economically produce the field. They are still working today trying to find a way to release the oil from the shale economically according to an recent newspaper article sent to me by my brother.

A few years ago, I was sent to Calgary to work on a CT scanner. It was being used at the Shell Oil research center at a local university . Core samples of oil laden rock formations were placed in a plexiglass tube. The samples were scanned on the CT scanner....the densities of the samples measured and then different chemical laden liquids were pumped through the tubes and core samples. The core samples were scanned again and the densities measured. They were trying to determine what chemicals would cause the rock formation core samples to release the most oil.......

I hope we quickly find an economical safe alternative energy source for powering vehicles.

[Lee DeRaud]

Keith, yes, getting to hydrogen and fuel cells is going to take a longer time than we like. The major issue right now is that it takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get from it. Science still needs to overcome that, but there are some promising technologies utilizing solar energy to "crack" molecules using lasers.I suspect those "promising technologies" are what are used to derive the "15 years to convert to hydrogen" figure. Kinda like how fusion power has been "just 25 years in the future" for the last 40 years: there are a whole bunch of promising technologies in that field as well.

[Keith Outten]

Jim,

The Japanese have a hydrogen home that is totally energy independant and also produces enough fuel for an automobile. It's all powered by solar panels and the project is amost two years old.

Mass production would bring this kind of technology down to an affordable level and put it in our back yards. I don't want to purchase fuel at the pump, we are smart enough to overcome the current system of purchasing energy but Americans must demand a change before it will ever happen.

[Christopher Pine]

I agree! I think (just my thought s) the economy plays a large part and the politicians thearies about how switching will effect that . How will they tax hydrogen???? Moreimportantly how will they at the scale they do gasoline?





Jim,

The Japanese have a hydrogen home that is totally energy independant and also produces enough fuel for an automobile. It's all powered by solar panels and the project is amost two years old.

Mass production would bring this kind of technology down to an affordable level and put it in our back yards. I don't want to purchase fuel at the pump, we are smart enough to overcome the current system of purchasing energy but Americans must demand a change before it will ever happen.

[Michael Perata]

I live in the same neighborhood as Chris P. and I also get to pay $3+ for a gallon of gas. Fortunately my gas cost is a reimbursable business expense.

If you want to solve the near term (< 10 years) gas pricing problem - go build a refinery. The lack of oil is not the problem (at least not for now); the lack of refinery capacity is.

[Don Baer]

Gas in May Neghborhood is going for 2.65/2.75/2.85/gal. I just had to drive to torrance to the Exxon Mobil Refinery 54 miles away (They are a customer of mine and neded some help). There is a station on the refinery property and the gas was price at 2.89/2.99/3.09 and they don't even have to pay any transportation costs.
:confused:

[Norman Hitt]

President Bush says it will take about 15 years to convert America to hydrogen fuel. This is a totally unexceptable timeframe.

And even the hydrogen, if it were available today, probably wouldn't help the Beleagured Airline industry, whose biggest cost is Fuel. The current airliners by design couldn't be converted to use hydrogen fuel, due to the tank volume requirements vs payload/range, and thus far, a feasible design has not been forthcoming.

This extreme fuel cost increase, and the inherent increase in ticket costs it will require, may just be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back for that industry.

I guess the Amish are just looking at all this, shaking their heads and going tsk, tsk, tsk. :D You think maybe the Buggy/Surry mfg industry might be a good investment? :D

[Paul Prescott]

Gas futures hit $2 per gallon on the commodities market yesterday. Look for even higher price you pay in the future. Wouldn't be surprised to see $3 per gallon or more in a few months.

[Michael Perata]

Norman

A significant problem with alternative fuels is the distribution system. It is not economical to deliver hydrogen by truck to the retail outlet. To deliver non-gasoline fuels to a retail outlet requires a pipe.

It is also not economical to make hydrogen. It takes more hydrocarbon energy to make an equivalent amount of hydrogen energy, so the total hydrocarbon/hydrogen budget is inefficient to begin with.

If we have to invest in a new fuel delivery system, let's make it for natural gas. I think we ONLY have about 1,500 years worth of national supply of that fuel. (And it can burn very clean!)

[Jim DeLaney]

Update:

Just filled up my truck a few minutes ago. $2.49.9 for regular. 92 Octane was $2.69.9.

[Norman Hitt]

Norman



A significant problem with alternative fuels is the distribution system. It is not economical to deliver hydrogen by truck to the retail outlet. To deliver non-gasoline fuels to a retail outlet requires a pipe.

It is also not economical to make hydrogen. It takes more hydrocarbon energy to make an equivalent amount of hydrogen energy, so the total hydrocarbon/hydrogen budget is inefficient to begin with.

If we have to invest in a new fuel delivery system, let's make it for natural gas. I think we ONLY have about 1,500 years worth of national supply of that fuel. (And it can burn very clean!)

Good points Michael, I'm well versed on the natural gas industry, since my Dad worked for a major Natural Gas Co. for 31 years before retirement, and I worked for them also for a year while in college.

Of course, that 1500 year supply would be significantly shortened if everything was converted to Natural Gas useage, but should be adequate to give enough time to develop other alternatives. Unfortunately, the Natural gas prices have been increasing by quite a bit in the past few years also.

[John Miliunas]

Unfortunately, the Natural gas prices have been increasing by quite a bit in the past few years also.

Yeah, but are those increases borne of *real* necessity or just them trying to keep their profit margins consistent with the oil industry?!:eek: :mad: Like I said before, I don't really have a major problem with costs of goods, which may be considered "luxuries" or supplemental to life's needs going up, but when it gets harder to keep my family warm and fed, I tend to get a bit torqued!:mad: That, in turn, takes away from my tool & lumber supply fund, which don't make me none too happy, neither!:( :cool: (HEY, no, that's NOT a contradiction! Woodworking IS a NEED!:D )

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

No telling how high prices will go because in spite of all the conspiracy theories supply and demand still determine prices. Don't feel too bad, because in spite of what the news hounds say, our gas prices today when adjusted for inflation are still not near what they were in the seventies. We have it so good we just bellyache more.

[Michael Perata]

Of course, that 1500 year supply would be significantly shortened if everything was converted to Natural Gas useage, but should be adequate to give enough time to develop other alternatives. Unfortunately, the Natural gas prices have been increasing by quite a bit in the past few years also.
There was a tad of hyperbole in my 1,500 year estimate - but the Saudis will run out of crude long before we run out of NG.

NG price increases are related to insufficent supply related to user moving away from liguid petro fuels. Drill a bunch more wells, and build a transmission infrastructure and we'll have reasonably priced fuel once more.

[Dennis Peacock]

Gasoline went up another 4¢ per gallon today....that's 24¢ per gallon price hike in the last 8 days. Our natural gas has gone from 74¢ per CCF to 93¢ per CCF and we are now looking into what it will take for us to heat with wood this winter. Every winter, we have to run the temp in the house at 60º because heating with NG is costing us more and more very year. I will stop using NG to heat my shop and will install a small wood stove to heat it while I'm in the shop working. I've calculated the costs of heating with wood and putting my family in warm temps in the winter months. It will save us just over $100 per month in NG cost for heat. AND...we will be able to have the house warmer than 60º in the house and wearing jackets in the house all winter long.

Feeling the real crunch while costs go up and my pay stays the same year after year. :(

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Gas in May Neghborhood is going for 2.65/2.75/2.85/gal. I just had to drive to torrance to the Exxon Mobil Refinery 54 miles away (They are a customer of mine and neded some help). There is a station on the refinery property and the gas was price at 2.89/2.99/3.09 and they don't even have to pay any transportation costs.
:confused:

A customer of yours? Whatever it is you do for them, I hope you've raised your prices. A lot. And maybe even on your drive over there. :mad:

[John Miliunas]

Dennis just wrote that it went up another $0.04 by him, for a total of 24 cents/gal. in a week. Ours has even been worse here at roughly 28 cents/gal. in even less time. :mad: I guess I could *almost* understand the increases at the pump if on the day of the increase, the supply truck just pulled away and the owner had to pay $x-amount more for the gas. Sadly, that's NOT the case. I very much doubt where any station is getting fueled up 3, 4 or even 5 times in one week, much less twice in one day!:mad: Face it folks, we're getting fleeced by pretty much anyone and everyone associated with the oil companies! And that goes right on down to our neighborhood, "mom & pop" gas stations!:mad: Hmmmm...Maybe the Amish DO have it right!:cool:

[Michael Perata]

John

You are paying the station owner the cost to replace his gas next week, not the cost of his current inventory. It is called "replacement cost pricing" and everyone selling a commodity does it.

Try buying plywood at last week's prices during the hurricane season.

[John Miliunas]

John

You are paying the station owner the cost to replace his gas next week, not the cost of his current inventory. It is called "replacement cost pricing" and everyone selling a commodity does it.

Try buying plywood at last week's prices during the hurricane season.

Point taken, Michael but, on the flip side of the coin, when the "per barrel" prices come down a significant amount, we don't see the same proportional decrease at the pump as quickly, either! :mad: The whole oil thing is only in one direction and it certainly isn't going the same direction that consumers are! Only those involved with the whole selling process of it are staying on the "high side" of that whole scened, at the cost of the consumer.:cool:

[Norman Hitt]

Gasoline went up another 4¢ per gallon

Feeling the real crunch while costs go up and my pay stays the same year after year. :(

Dennis, maybe you better come out to my area for a while, as there are sure quite a number of ads looking for licensed electricians and several ads for "Rig" (that's oil rig) electricians, and they pay pretty darn good for those, and have lots of benefits, 'course good "Wood" for the shop is harder to come by, but you Can see the forest through the Trees, (if there was a Forest). :D

[Mike Mortenson]

I think we all need to just stay home for one day. All our problems would be over.

[John Miliunas]

I think we all need to just stay home for one day. All our problems would be over.

Hah! You think so, Mike? I left the property once since coming home from work Friday and that was to get gas for the bloody lawn mower!:mad: Think I need to buy a horse!:D :cool:

[Dennis Peacock]

Hah! You think so, Mike? I left the property once since coming home from work Friday and that was to get gas for the bloody lawn mower!:mad: Think I need to buy a horse!:D :cool:

Hey John,

Don't forget we need gas for our chainsaws, weedeaters, blowers, hedge trimmers, cars, trucks, boats, snow mobiles, snow blowers, riding mowers, push mowers, motorcycles, scooters, and the list goes on from here. Now...we aren't even taking into consideration other uses for petroleum products. I can't say what I really want to say....I have to stay in the terms of SMC........Bitting My Lip In Conway, Arkansas!!!!!!! :rolleyes: :D

[John Miliunas]

Biting my lip out here in Packerland, as well! ;) The funny (OK, not so funny) thing is, it seems that our government just loves to put their mitts into everything, but some how, the whole oil thing simply appears to be slipping (pun intended) right past them. Good grief, they don't give a hoot if families are going to be cold or skimping on life's needs just to have gas money, but Heaven forbid if Microsoft should go in with somebody like Acme Computers and say that their operating system will only work on an Acme! :eek: You can bet your last byte that the DOJ would be over them like flies on doggy do-do! Hmmm...guess enough of them don't get campaign donations or have enough vested in MS. Cripes, remember when they got all over AT&T? Gee, that solved a lot, didn't it?:rolleyes: And it just doesn't seem to make any difference of the supply or the demand or the ability to produce the product, the oil creeps always have an excuse to continue raising the prices. Too much demand, not enough demand, lost a refinery, a tanker captain ran all the crude into a whale. It just don't matter! Any and every excuse is "good enough" to raise the prices!:mad:

I think I'll shut up now before I get really rev'd up and break the TOS! As it is, I'm probably borderline! :rolleyes: Sorry! :o :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Gee, I wonder how Europe has survived so long with gas prices still doubling ours...face it folks, we've been living in a dreamworld.

Time to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles and just in general, be wiser with our energy useage in the US. We are pretty bad over here compared to other industrialized places.

Okay, toss them ripe tomatoes...I can run!! :D

Oh, and if you can't beat 'em...join 'em...get some oil stocks.... ;)

[John Miliunas]

Gee, I wonder how Europe has survived so long with gas prices still doubling ours...face it folks, we've been living in a dreamworld.

Time to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles and just in general, be wiser with our energy useage in the US. We are pretty bad over here compared to other industrialized places.

Okay, toss them ripe tomatoes...I can run!! :D

Oh, and if you can't beat 'em...join 'em...get some oil stocks.... ;)

I agree with you, Chris, but only to a degree. In my long, daily commute, I see a LOT of HUGE vehicles traveling the same distance. Big V-8's and such. 95% of them have a total of one person...the driver! We live in the country, on a major thoroughfare to many camping areas and the like. It never fails to amaze me how many humungo trucks pulling campers, trailers w/off-roaders, boats, etc.... go by every weekend. Basically, gas hogs pulling more gas hogs!:rolleyes:

OTOH, how about the other part of the populace? For instance, I already drive an econobox. My pick-up is a too-small 6-cyl. I tend to 90% of the "in town" errands for my family on my way home from work and we have set-back thermostats in the house and shop. Last year, we spent a small fortune on a whole lot of replacement windows, though we have a few more to go. BUT, with the cost of oil and all the collateral damages done by that, I doubt we'll be able to afford the purchase of the rest of them.:mad: In other words, my way of life matches that of many other folks today and we can't hardly pinch anymore!:( Oh, and I can't beat 'em! If I had the $$$ to play the stocks, I wouldn't be too worried about gas prices!;) :cool:

[Norman Hitt]

Gee, I wonder how Europe has survived so long with gas prices still doubling ours...face it folks, we've been living in a dreamworld.

Time to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles and just in general, be wiser with our energy useage in the US. We are pretty bad over here compared to other industrialized places.

Okay, toss them ripe tomatoes...I can run!! :D

Oh, and if you can't beat 'em...join 'em...get some oil stocks.... ;)

One of the ways they make it in Europe Chris, is that every European country has a Mass Transit rail system, (trains/trams), that is Loaded with commuters daily and although there are a LOT of cars in Europe, the largest percentage do not even own a car, and if they do, they still use Mass transit anytime possible. Of course, finding a parking space where you're going that is closer to the place than where you departed from may have a lot to do with that also. :D DAMHIKT. :D I know that in Belgium, and maybe other countries, Major companies and Govt entities are required to pay for the employee commute tickets and cannot discriminate in hiring practices because of a long commute, that is up to a given distance, (can't remember the number but something like 100 miles each way), and in major cities, at least, there is even a Train or Tram terminal inside the airport Terminal bldg to get you to downtown and/or to any other place you may want to go with never more than a short walk and they even have bus routes for the countryside where the trains or trams don't go. With all this and high passenger loads though, the Govt still has to subsidize the mass transit system.

The thing about Mass Transit systems though, is that for them to be effective, People Must use them, and over there, they do, but it will probably be another 100 years before we will ever be able to get people in that frame of mind over here. I loved the Train/Tram system over there once I got used to it, so much so that when I ran across one of those deals so good I couldn't pass up and bought a nearly new Mercedes, (that couldn't be delivered to me for three weeks), a fellow worker offered me more than I paid for it, after thinking about it overnight, I decided really didn't need it and sold it to him the next day. I lived there 5 1/2 years, and only rented a car for a week and a half one time when my wife came over to visit and we wanted to take our time and see a lot of the "Back Country". Back here at home where I live though, you've just got to have a vehicle, or you can't get anywhere. There are a few exceptions, like the east coast, (Washington to NY, etc)and a very few others.

Oh yes, I only passed one gas station tonight running an errand, a 7/11 store that is usually priced about the normal price for gas around town, and the price for Regular (87 octane) was $2.49.9, so we're trying to keep up with the Jones's on gas pricing too, but my wife only paid $2.33.9 at a small truckstop in Tye, Tx, (just west of Abilene), but it is always about $0.10/gal or more lower than here.

[Ian Barley]

...the largest percentage do not even own a car...

Not sure where in Eurpope your refernce zone is Norman but this is simply not true across any of the countries that I have lived in. It may apply to some of the old eastern european states and it probably applies in some of the large metropoli, but household car ownership is the norm everywhere I have ever lived (4 different european countries)

...I know that in Belgium, and maybe other countries, Major companies and Govt entities are required to pay for the employee commute tickets...
Never heard of this anywhere else that I have lived - if they require it in Belgium I suspect that they are a one off.


...and they even have bus routes for the countryside where the trains or trams don't go....
The last time I lived in a really rural area there was indeed a regular bus service into town. It went on a wednesday morning and came back on the Wednesday afternoon. Regular but almost completely useless.

I am quite sure that Europeans are more likely, on the average, to use public transport as part of their transport mix than are Americans so many of your points are valid - I just didn't want anybody to get the impression that we have some sort of utopian answer to energy consumption.

There are many reasons why we survive with higher fuel costs. In many (most) areas of our eceonomy the price of an item in dollars in the US is very similar to the price in pounds in the UK. Forget the exchange rate. If it costs you $100 it probably costs me about £100. A gallon of Diesel costs me about £4.10. My gallon is 1.2 of your gallons so a US gallon would cost me about £3.40. A bit dearer than your prices but if you apply the 1:1 ration nowhere near double.

The cost of something in units of currency is a bad comparison point. Much better is how much time, based on the average income, somebody has to work to earn the money to buy it. Average adult UK earnings at last count were equivalent to about £10/hour so the £3.40 gallon represents about 20 minutes work - on average. I have no idea how those numbers compare to the US.

We also can survive higher fuel costs because our distances are shorter. Top to bottom of the UK is 840 miles.

We also live in a different society. Most of my fuel cost is tax. That tax goes into the general mix of central income that pays for me to get hospital treatment when I need it so I don't have to pay medical insuance or rely on an employer to do that for me. I am not justifying - just trying to show that comparison is a muddy business.

I agree with Chris that fuel efficiency should be a consideration for everybody and with Norman that Mass Transit has an important role to play, but it is always complicated to make comparisons.

[Norman Hitt]

[QUOTE=Ian Barley]Not sure where in Eurpope your refernce zone is Norman but this is simply not true across any of the countries that I have lived in. QUOTE]

My area of reference Ian, was the major cities of (Belgie)/Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Holland, but more car ownership per capita seemingly in Germany and France. I'm sure it all has changed a lot in the 14 years since I've been gone from there, but I traveled and worked out of those areas extensively, and knew and dealt with Lots of local folks and their friends & relatives in those places and that was my experience at that time. Also, SOME that did have cars, only drove them maybe 3 or 4 times a month. I can't believe however, that I forgot to mention before, one of the very important modes of transport which was the Bicycle, in ALL those countries, and especially in Suisse, (Switzerland for us yanks, :D ) where they have not only special bicycle lanes, but Bike racks that hold literally hundreds of bikes around the train sta's, and scattered all around town, and about 6 or 8" wide ramps at the edge of outdoor and train/tram station stairways to walk your bike up or down, and you can "Check" your bike into a "Bike Car" and take it with you when you take a train trip around Europe.

[Ian Barley]

Norman

I agree that it may be the case in major metropolitan areas but I also guess that car ownership in Manhattan residents is lower than average. Dwellers in dense cities will have different habits to their more suburban neighbours.

[Dennis Peacock]

Well.....gas is up ANOTHER 7¢ per gallon today.....at this rate....we'll be at $5 per gallon by the end of the month!!!! :( :mad:

[Jim Becker]

I paid $2.61 today...a personal record. I just didn't have the time to drive to NJ to pay a little less. Oh, well...at least I wasn't on empty and it only took 19 gallons. ;) Dr. SWMBO got hit for $2.65 on the way home from work...and that was the "cheap" place on her route. (At least she gets nearly 50mpg in the Prius)

[Steve Clardy]

Well.....gas is up ANOTHER 7¢ per gallon today.....at this rate....we'll be at $5 per gallon by the end of the month!!!! :( :mad:

Wow. I haven't been to the gas station here for a couple of days now.
Afraid to look at the prices now.

[Roy Wall]

I costs about $400 a month to park you car under a tenants apartment building......




Norman

I agree that it may be the case in major metropolitan areas but I also guess that car ownership in Manhattan residents is lower than average. Dwellers in dense cities will have different habits to their more suburban neighbours.

[Tom Stover]

Yesterday Gas prices here went up .23 To $2.69. They seem to raise it on a whim or whenever a oil rig worker gets indigestion. I just bought a new truck but now I think I'll buy a scooter.