Ashwood Table with Powder Post Beetles

[Victoria Chu]

Hello Everyone,

In March, I bought 2 custom made Ash wood tables but, sadly, it looks like it is infested with powder post beetles (PPBs). I initially thought the frass I was seeing was just dust, but when I kept seeing new piles of it after I had already vacuumed, my research led me to some great posts here that confirmed that the little holes in my table were actually from PPBs and not normal.

Since the table is stained and has a few coats of poly on the top already (bottom is untreated), I'm trying to narrow down my options to avoid having to throw the table out since we paid a good amount for them. It seems like one of the best options would be to put them in a fumigation chamber to kill the pests at most stages, but I'm having trouble finding a place that has one here in Charlotte, NC. The closest would be in Durham and that is a bit of a drive from Charlotte.

Another option I read about was to put it in a kiln, but I am having trouble find one and I'm not sure if this advisable due to the finish on the table. I haven't reached out to the seller who made the tables (maybe he would have a kiln?), but am afraid he may be insulted if I reached out to him about the problem.

I wanted to reach out to see if there were other options to explore since I am having trouble finding the above.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.

Kind regards,
Victoria.

[James Tibbetts]

I would contact the seller first. If he has other projects infested from this same batch of lumber he may already have determined a solution.

[Victoria Chu]

I would contact the seller first. If he has other projects infested from this same batch of lumber he may already have determined a solution.

Thank you for your response James!

[Scott Hearn]

Doesn't kiln drying kill them? I've heard about PPBs from I don't know how many people, one plywood vendor close to me said they won't touch it. They had to replace a set of kitchen cabinets in a very high end house. Ash is my favorite wood and I'm about afraid to use it.

[Doug Garson]

I haven't reached out to him. Not sure if he would be insulted[/U])


I don't understand why you would hesitate to contact the seller. If he is a reputable supplier he would want to know there is a problem with what he sold you and would do what it takes to fix the problem. If he doesn't, his reputation would suffer. By not contacting him but publicizing the problem you are doing him a disservice by tarnishing his reputation and not giving him the chance to step up and do the right thing. He may have a problem with PPB that he doesn't know about and will only get worse if he doesn't know. If he doesn't offer to solve the problem then post here and let others know he is a supplier to avoid and ask for help to solve the problem.

[Victoria Chu]

Thank you Doug. I wasn't sure if he would be upset or insulted if I raised the issue, but you make a good point that he should know there is a problem. I will try to reach out and see if he has any suggestions.

[Allan Speers]

For a small piece like that, heat is probably the simplest fix. Put it in a veneering bag, or make a quick box out of rigid insulation, then put some 100 watt bulbs in there for a while. You can google how hot i has to be (something like 160 degrees F, I think) and how long. (Maybe 24 hrs? I don't remember.)

[John Vernier]

A couple of years ago I discovered powder post beetles infesting an ash cabinet I had started and needed to store unfinished. I was doubtful about the heat method because yellow glue loses its grip at a surprisingly low temperature and I didn't want to risk failed panel glue-ups. Since there was no finish on the piece yet, I injected all of the bore holes with lacquer thinner, and a few beetles actually crawled out and went legs up, very satisfying. Afterwards I injected all of the holes with a solution of Termite Prufe powder in water. I bought this at my local hardware store and their website does claim it will stop PPBs. I repeated the application a couple of times and then finished the cabinet. I've been keeping an eye on it at home ever since, and I think I got all the bugs.

I wouldn't recommend the lacquer thinner on a finished piece, of course, but the Termite Prufe might do the trick on its own.
http://www.copperbrite.com/termite.html

[Cody Colston]

I would definitely notify the supplier. He needs to know there is a bug infestation problem. I would also get the infested furniture out of my house ASAP.

Fumigation is probably your best option since the piece is already finished. Also, I don't know what prolonged heat would do to the glue as already mentioned. FYI, the wood must be heated to a minimum of 132 degrees at the core for at least 4 hours to sterilize the wood. Wood is a pretty good insulator so the temperature needed to get it heated throughout would need to be somewhat higher. A dry kiln would do it but I wouldn't be too confident in a jerry-rigged enclosure.
The holes you see are where the ppb's have exited the wood, probably leaving eggs/larvae behind. They won't get into wood with a finish so they were present when the piece was being built and the finish applied.

[Danny Hamsley]

Before I had a kiln, I made a 2" thick bar top from quartersawn white oak for a lady. 2 1/2 years later, the lady called me and said that there were little holes appearing in the bar top. Oh no, the dreaded powderpost beetle. I put the top in the kiln at 150 degrees for 30 hours. The bar top was finished with mineral oil. There was some minor cracking at the glue joints, but the glue held up fine. I will probably cut in into two pieces, replane it, re-glue it, fill all the cracks, and refinish it for her. If she is not satisfied, I will make her a new one that has had the wood kiln dried and heat treated to 150 degrees (Cody is spot on about the need to heat the core of the wood to over 132 degrees for a few hours. I usually heat the kiln to 150 degrees for 24 hours so that I can assure that the core reaches the right temp for a long enough period of time.)

It is entirely possible that the PPB's got into the bar top after she installed it in the kitchen as the bottom side of the top was unfinished. However, I am assuming that they were in the wood from my drying sheds, so I am taking responsibility.

I hate powderpost beetles.

[roger wiegand]

Fumigation with methyl bromide is the safest and surest route, especially for a finished piece with any value.

[Danny Hamsley]

I met with the lady today. We agreed that I would split the bar top in half, re-plane the two pieces flat, and re-glue. I did that this afternoon, and the top came out nice and flat. Will re-glue tomorrow, re-sand, fill any small cracks, and she will be happy.

I hate powderpost beetles. The little Sods are gone, now. I can sleep better.

[Victoria Chu]

I met with the lady today. We agreed that I would split the bar top in half, re-plane the two pieces flat, and re-glue. I did that this afternoon, and the top came out nice and flat. Will re-glue tomorrow, re-sand, fill any small cracks, and she will be happy.

I hate powderpost beetles. The little Sods are gone, now. I can sleep better.

Great! It's nice not having things hang over your head!

[Victoria Chu]

For a small piece like that, heat is probably the simplest fix. Put it in a veneering bag, or make a quick box out of rigid insulation, then put some 100 watt bulbs in there for a while. You can google how hot i has to be (something like 160 degrees F, I think) and how long. (Maybe 24 hrs? I don't remember.)

Thank you Allan!

[Victoria Chu]

Doesn't kiln drying kill them? I've heard about PPBs from I don't know how many people, one plywood vendor close to me said they won't touch it. They had to replace a set of kitchen cabinets in a very high end house. Ash is my favorite wood and I'm about afraid to use it.

PPBs are such terrible little pests!

[Victoria Chu]

I would definitely notify the supplier. He needs to know there is a bug infestation problem. I would also get the infested furniture out of my house ASAP.

Fumigation is probably your best option since the piece is already finished. Also, I don't know what prolonged heat would do to the glue as already mentioned. FYI, the wood must be heated to a minimum of 132 degrees at the core for at least 4 hours to sterilize the wood. Wood is a pretty good insulator so the temperature needed to get it heated throughout would need to be somewhat higher. A dry kiln would do it but I wouldn't be too confident in a jerry-rigged enclosure.
The holes you see are where the ppb's have exited the wood, probably leaving eggs/larvae behind. They won't get into wood with a finish so they were present when the piece was being built and the finish applied.

Thank you Cody!

[Victoria Chu]

A couple of years ago I discovered powder post beetles infesting an ash cabinet I had started and needed to store unfinished. I was doubtful about the heat method because yellow glue loses its grip at a surprisingly low temperature and I didn't want to risk failed panel glue-ups. Since there was no finish on the piece yet, I injected all of the bore holes with lacquer thinner, and a few beetles actually crawled out and went legs up, very satisfying. Afterwards I injected all of the holes with a solution of Termite Prufe powder in water. I bought this at my local hardware store and their website does claim it will stop PPBs. I repeated the application a couple of times and then finished the cabinet. I've been keeping an eye on it at home ever since, and I think I got all the bugs.

I wouldn't recommend the lacquer thinner on a finished piece, of course, but the Termite Prufe might do the trick on its own.
http://www.copperbrite.com/termite.html

Thank you John!

[Victoria Chu]

Fumigation with methyl bromide is the safest and surest route, especially for a finished piece with any value.

Thank you so much Roger!

[Allan Speers]

Well, my way will work, but heed the earlier warning about what temps glue can handle. I didn't think of that. Someone must know a safe temp for various glues when dry.

[Ron Teti]

I moved to the UK finding good timber here at a good (cheap) price is very difficult.. I found a place that recycles old timber oak, pitch pine, beech, piraña pine.

recently I built a table out of some recycled oak beams that were rough cut through a band saw. Fast fwd to the completed project, I noticed some little powder piles on a table top I made. A bud said that they were wood worms, they got active due to the heat of my house.

after some research I found they would a wood worm killer, brush it on in a well ventilated area, both sides of the wood top, and it would soak in a and kill the pest.

maybe they have something like that for those pesky beetles

[Frederick Skelly]

Before I had a kiln, I made a 2" thick bar top from quartersawn white oak for a lady. 2 1/2 years later, the lady called me and said that there were little holes appearing in the bar top. Oh no, the dreaded powderpost beetle. I put the top in the kiln at 150 degrees for 30 hours. The bar top was finished with mineral oil. There was some minor cracking at the glue joints, but the glue held up fine. I will probably cut in into two pieces, replane it, re-glue it, fill all the cracks, and refinish it for her. If she is not satisfied, I will make her a new one that has had the wood kiln dried and heat treated to 150 degrees (Cody is spot on about the need to heat the core of the wood to over 132 degrees for a few hours. I usually heat the kiln to 150 degrees for 24 hours so that I can assure that the core reaches the right temp for a long enough period of time.)

It is entirely possible that the PPB's got into the bar top after she installed it in the kitchen as the bottom side of the top was unfinished. However, I am assuming that they were in the wood from my drying sheds, so I am taking responsibility.

I hate powderpost beetles.

I know this is off topic. But I just wanted to say that I really appreciate working with reputable businessmen like you Danny. If I was your customer, I'd be talking-up your company all over town.

[Dan Hahr]

I'm pretty sure that you can freeze them to death. See if you can find a walk in cooler that has some floor space where you can leave it for a couple days. I've seen people putting whole chests of drawers in freezers without any wood movement issues.

Dan

[Danny Hamsley]

Appreciate the kind words, Frederick. I think that she will be pleased.