Good Morning. Considering an entry level laser and I have a few questions.

[Jacob John]

Hello everyone. I've been reading this forum and other various spots around the web, and I got a general feel for the players involved (Big 3 companies and their Chinese counterparts), but deciding which one is a bit more difficult. To begin, we're looking at doing laser engraving on wooden boxes and barware/stemware. It's a small business right now, but the intent is to slowly grow and scale as we become more popular. I was having a tough time till I found the Rayjet, and I think that it might be a good fit, but I didn't find many reviews here or out there on the net. The one point I just don't know is pricing. It seems common to not put pricing out there for anyone to see and to me that usually means it's pricey. There are some like Universal Versalaser and Full Spectrum Laser that offer a few prices. I'm not against making an investment, but I also want to make sure that this is the right path first, a test if you will.

So what are your thoughts on the Rayjet and the Versalaser, or any other that you think I should consider?

The Versalaser is here: http://www.versalaser.com.au/ I saw it listed at $6,800 on one website.

The Rayjet is here: http://www.rayjetlaser.com/en-US-US/Pages/laser-engraving.aspx

I appreciate your opinions, and thank you for time. If you guys have any additional questions, please let me know. I want to make an informed decision. :)

[Bob A Miller]

Well pricing changes a bit depending on where you live. Maybe you could start by telling us if you are in the U.S., Canada....etc.

Ok in very general terms & not trying to degrade anyone's favorite brand or supplier.... Pricing also varies radically depending on how much power you buy. Also keep in mind that a Chinese laser has a min % of power it will fire at... My Gwieke is about 12%... Chinese lasers typically are not as good for engraving as the big 3. There is a reason I have A Trotec as well as a Chinese laser., as they are much more controllable for reduced power settings. In addition to engraving are you planning on cutting the wooden boxes? Keep in mind people do expand buisness's to other areas...something can be popular or not... Flexibility may help.

Oh you can get financing on the big 3 typically if that is important to you.

Pricing can can also very if you get a deal at one of the shows. Lots to think about but it starts with where you are. I will now get off my soap box & let one of the actual experts speak.

[Jacob John]

Thank you for the reply. I'm in the U.S., but specifically in Texas. What draws me to the Rayjet is that it looks fairly easy to use. Learning software is something that doesn't concern me personally (something with a higher learning curve), but I'm not the only one that's going to be using it. The Rayjet seems to give me the best option for a lower learning curve, but I'm sure that I'm sacrificing some functionality as well. I know the Speedy is its faster step-brother, but the software seems a lot harder to learn.

I'm also curious about ventilation, as I want to ensure a safe working environment. My plan is to work out of a converted very large double car garage, but I'm still concerned about ventilation. The Rayjet promo videos don't show any at all, but I'm sure for certain materials, you have to have it properly ventilated. Thanks for you thoughts.

[Bill George]

Thank you for the reply. I'm in the U.S., but specifically in Texas. What draws me to the Rayjet is that it looks fairly easy to use. Learning software is something that doesn't concern me personally (something with a higher learning curve), but I'm not the only one that's going to be using it. The Rayjet seems to give me the best option for a lower learning curve, but I'm sure that I'm sacrificing some functionality as well. I know the Speedy is its faster step-brother, but the software seems a lot harder to learn.

I'm also curious about ventilation, as I want to ensure a safe working environment. My plan is to work out of a converted very large double car garage, but I'm still concerned about ventilation. The Rayjet promo videos don't show any at all, but I'm sure for certain materials, you have to have it properly ventilated. Thanks for you thoughts.

Find the Search bar and do some searching on your questions, most if not all have been asked and covered many times over. On the Exhaust systems, most machines do not come with ventilation systems, its up to the buyer to figure that out. Most on here have.

[Jacob John]

Find the Search bar and do some searching on your questions, most if not all have been asked and covered many times over. On the Exhaust systems, most machines do not come with ventilation systems, its up to the buyer to figure that out. Most on here have.

Thank you Bill. I did use the search function, but there isn't much on the Rayjet, which is the one I'm leaning toward buying. I don't know, or want to assume, that this means that it's an unpopular choice, but this forum doesn't appear to be a beginner's forum so maybe that's why since the Rayjet tags itself as being an entry level laser setup. Thank you for your reply.

EDIT: I also want to add, that what I did find was from back in 2009, and not anything recent so I thought it was worth a more recent discussion.

This was the most recent thread, and it does provide a wealth of information, but it's more related to the technical side of the machine. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223598-Trotec-Speedy-300-versus-the-Rayjet-300

I'm also looking at this from a cost comparison angle as well.

[Bill George]

I did a Search with over 10 pages of results on Rayjet

[Jacob John]

I don't think anything I posted was out of the ordinary for new people. I even asked questions about the software and its learning curve versus the Speedy software, and the Rayjet versus the Versalaser, two that I'm interested in. None of the threads on the search engine specifically address those two things.

[Scott Shepherd]

I think there are different Rayjet models and that's the confusion for Jacob finding good info. There's the little bitty Rayjet like in the post above and then there's the Rayjet that's just a slightly stripped down Speedy. Why they call them the same things, I don't know, but they do.

While there's probably plenty of posts about the Rayjet that looks like the Speedy, I don't ever recall seeing much, if anything, from actual users of the little bitty one.

I think they both use the same software, which basically asks your questions about what you want to engrave and cut and then it does it's thing, but they are very different machines.

I also think the little bitty Rayjet is less than $10,000 and the other Rayjet is probably $15,000 or more, so that's where some confusion comes in.

[Jacob John]

I think there are different Rayjet models and that's the confusion for Jacob finding good info. There's the little bitty Rayjet like in the post above and then there's the Rayjet that's just a slightly stripped down Speedy. Why they call them the same things, I don't know, but they do.

While there's probably plenty of posts about the Rayjet that looks like the Speedy, I don't ever recall seeing much, if anything, from actual users of the little bitty one.

I think they both use the same software, which basically asks your questions about what you want to engrave and cut and then it does it's thing, but they are very different machines.

I also think the little bitty Rayjet is less than $10,000 and the other Rayjet is probably $15,000 or more, so that's where some confusion comes in.

Ahh that might be it Scott, thanks. Honestly, I understand that basics of wattage when it comes to engraving and cutting, but not as it applies to actually putting it to practical use, since I don't have any hands on experience. I don't like posting newbie type questions that are so specific that it only offers help to the OP, but I don't know where else to really turn. The main things we'll be producing are wooden engraved boxes, etched glassware, and the occasional metal etching. The Rayjet ( I know there's a range in wattage) seems like a good entry level to get your feet wet, while not blowing the pocketbook. Plus, I'm concerned about the learning curve on the control software, and the Rayjet people seems to have mirrored other crating areas software for entry level people that want specific ease of use. I know that I, personally, will lose the power of some of the other laser's software, but I'm ok with that for now so that the other person using this machine will not get easily discouraged.

I know it's a generic question (What's the best one for me?), so I'm trying to be specific as to my needs. Thank you for trying to clarify that. :)

EDIT: Scott, the first Rayjet I linked to is the one I'm interested in. I do see other Rayjet's now, which really only confuses me more.

These are the range of spec for the one I linked. I think a 30-40W laser would be sifficient for our needs.



Rayjet laser - Technical specifications​


​Laser power
12 to 50 watts


​Laser type
CO2 laser


​Work area
18 x 12 inch



​Max. workpiece height

5 inch



​Machine size
28.6 x 16.2 x 25.8 inch


​Weight
from 45 kg


Technical Requirements
PC, power supply with 110-240 V

[Roy Nielsen]

Thank you for the reply. I'm in the U.S., but specifically in Texas.

My plan is to work out of a converted very large double car garage,

Jacob,

Be aware that some lasers must operate in cooler environments than others. I believe at least the Epilogs must be operated in somewhere in the 70Fs. If your converted garage isn't A/Ced, that may be a selection factor.

What size boxes, or other items, do you foresee engraving?

Did you go to the trade show in DFW area last weekend?

[Keith Winter]

Hi Jacob,
It sounds like you're in our backyard. Did you by chance listen to the Trotec talk at the NBM show in Arlington a week or so ago?

If you're going with Trotec, or Rayjet you're going to be dealing with Chris Cudmore, he's the regional rep for them, very knowledgeable he can help steer you in the right direction. Roy is also correct, in our region of the USA, OK and TX you need AC for your laser. You'll need an ac unit or portable ac unit you vent outside if you go this route.

[Scott Shepherd]

Engraving wood, the more power the better. I wouldn't go under 45w. I'd try the 50 if I could afford it.

Both machines are from solid companies and both have a lot of them in the field, so they aren't new, with no history at all, which is good.

They will both be easy to use and geared towards the beginner.

[Jacob John]

Jacob,

Be aware that some lasers must operate in cooler environments than others. I believe at least the Epilogs must be operated in somewhere in the 70Fs. If your converted garage isn't A/Ced, that may be a selection factor.

What size boxes, or other items, do you foresee engraving?

Did you go to the trade show in DFW area last weekend?

Thank you, Roy! I luckily have a neighbor that is a general contractor and have already been talking to him about both ventilation and having this area air conditioned. I certainly don't want to be uncomfortable or have the laser damaged either.

The boxes would range from very small (2" X 2") to larger ones (12" X 12"). I don't think at this point we'll be going much larger. We're trying to be reasonable about our expectations, and keeping it small scale for now and more focused. My wife also likes cutting paper products (invitations, birthday mobiles, etc.) and she uses her Cricut (yeah I know, but it works great on a small scale :D) for that, but we'd like the option of scaling that as well. For glassware, we're looking at wine glasses and mugs, nothing too fancy. We've had lot of requests for adding these items, and I like the efficiency of a laser etching versus the hardware etching available. For now, that's our focus, and if all goes well, we'll consider other more powerful options later.

I know that some people would say to just go all in right now, with the risk of realizing that we might soon be looking at a larger laser setup, but with renovating the garage and other up front costs, I want to consider something like the smaller Rayjet (30W-40W) and other options like that machine. Like I said too, the learning curve on the software needs to be lower for now, until I can really get more hands on in teaching some more in depth programs.

I missed the DFW show, but I hear that it's a go to spot for people in Texas. Someone recommended the Imprinted Sportswear Show show in Fort Worth in October, but we're wanting to get started a little sooner than that. Thank you for responding. :)

[Jacob John]

Engraving wood, the more power the better. I wouldn't go under 45w. I'd try the 50 if I could afford it.

Both machines are from solid companies and both have a lot of them in the field, so they aren't new, with no history at all, which is good.

They will both be easy to use and geared towards the beginner.

Thank you, Scott, that's some of what I'm looking for. I'm out here in left field when it comes to wood products. I'll have to ask about the pricing on the 50 watt model in comparison to the 30 or 40 watt versions. From the limited pricing I find, it jumps a couple thousand per 10 watts with some machines. I don't want to mess up and not get enough, that's for sure.

Thank you, Keith, it's definitely something we're working on right now. I want to do it right, not half way and get stuck damaging the equipment. Thank you for the name as well, I was filling out the online form for Rayjet today to get more information.

[Keith Winter]

The depth you're looking to do 12" is going to be problematic with the smaller lasers. I think my max depth is around 9-10" depending on the len, on my speedy 300.

The difference between the Trotec and Rayjet is the software and the Rayjet is essentially a stripped down speedy at a lower price point I believe, but talk to Chris he can tell you the exact differences.

On the glass you may want a rotary attachment also that's the most common method of doing glass so budget for that as well. I would also recommend air assist it's nice for engraving/cutting wood keeps your lens clean, we have it on all of ours. Your power is going to be low at 30w-40w. You can do most things with that but it will take awhile and multiple passes on some things. I'd recommend 60w+ if you can swing it. of coarse all these things add cost so you have to budget what will work for you.

[Jacob John]

The depth you're looking to do 12" is going to be problematic with the smaller lasers. I think my max depth is around 9-10" depending on the len, on my speedy 300.

The difference between the Trotec and Rayjet is the software and the Rayjet is essentially a stripped down speedy at a lower price point I believe, but talk to Chris he can tell you the exact differences.

On the glass you may want a rotary attachment also that's the most common method of doing glass so budget for that as well. I would also recommend air assist it's nice for engraving/cutting wood keeps your lens clean, we have it on all of ours. Your power is going to be low at 30w-40w. You can do most things with that but it will take awhile and multiple passes on some things. I'd recommend 60w+ if you can swing it. of coarse all these things add cost so you have to budget what will work for you.

Thanks, Keith. The depth is actually much less than that. We're not trying to engrave or cut very ornate boxes, more like basic etching, maybe with the possibility of larger depth engravings. The 12" was the width dimensions of the boxes, since I know that some machines have smaller surface areas. We are definitely going to be purchasing the rotary attachment for glassware. If I look at 60w machines, I think that takes the Rayjet our completely because I believe that they only go as high as 50w. This is one reason I'm here, this type of information is invaluable and will help prevent me making initial mistakes. Thank you.

I'm not afraid of making an investment, but I'm afraid of making the wrong type of investment, and too soon, if that makes sense. I want to give myself options for expansion, but I'm not ready to go with some of the higher end options that some of you guys have. Maybe when I get a little more into this. :)

That's why i was considering the smaller Rayjet. It looks like it gives me enough to get my feet wet, but without the larger initial investment, but if the laser will be under powered for what we're trying to do, that concerns me.

[Mike Null]

If you search posts by Robert Tepper or pm him you'll find a longtime Rayjet user. I believe he now has a Trotec 300 but he was high on the Rayjet.

[Keith Winter]

Hi Jacob. I can tell you glass is one of the most unforgiving substrates to laser engrave on. Every glass you engrave on will be somewhat different, even in the same box sometimes; there will be slight variances in every glass. Glass takes patience, but I don't think you need massive power to do it, just enough to create controled fracturing of the glass. Wood is much easier and more forgiving comparatively. I'm sure more than a few people on here are doing both of those substrates with 40 watts so I'm not saying it's impossible at all. All I am stating is my preference for more wattage. Wood takes power, but you can slow down the engraving speed to compensate for less power in most cases. If this is going to be a real business that you move into an office or warehouse at some point you might think about more wattage. If this is going to be more of a hobby then you might not want to spend for the extras. I think you have to do what's best for you in your situation. One word of advise I would give. No matter your situation, don't underprice your wares. Your time is valuable and so is your laser time.

[Jacob John]

If you search posts by Robert Tepper or pm him you'll find a longtime Rayjet user. I believe he now has a Trotec 300 but he was high on the Rayjet.

Thank you, Mike. I believe that I saw his name in a few searches.



Hi Jacob. I can tell you glass is one of the most unforgiving substrates to laser engrave on. Every glass you engrave on will be somewhat different, even in the same box sometimes; there will be slight variances in every glass. Glass takes patience, but I don't think you need massive power to do it, just enough to create controled fracturing of the glass. Wood is much easier and more forgiving comparatively. I'm sure more than a few people on here are doing both of those substrates with 40 watts so I'm not saying it's impossible at all. All I am stating is my preference for more wattage. Wood takes power, but you can slow down the engraving speed to compensate for less power in most cases. If this is going to be a real business that you move into an office or warehouse at some point you might think about more wattage. If this is going to be more of a hobby then you might not want to spend for the extras. I think you have to do what's best for you in your situation. One word of advise I would give. No matter your situation, don't underprice your wares. Your time is valuable and so is your laser time.

I definitely need to find a balance between bankrolling an entire business at once, or starting smaller then scaling accordingly. I know this is probably frowned upon when considering starting a business, but this is a hobby/small business at the initial startup, which can hopefully grow as we define and grow our product line. My wife will be doing most of the work during the day, with me assisting during the evening hours. Pricing is another thing that we're heavily researching right now and another part of starting small in my opinion. We want to make sure that we really identify our primary customer base, and market to them, even if it creates a smaller clientele base. I have an itchy trigger finger to go fast and hard, but thankfully my logic side allows me to take a step back and analyze and research until I'm comfortable with my choice. It's tough sometimes though. :)

I knew glass was going to come with a higher learning curve because of the fragility and curves. Hopefully, we'll be receiving some help from friends on that one. If I can get some fair pricing on the Rayjet 50 watt, I may just go with that one from the start. That way, I have a decent amount of power starting out. I just wish pricing was more readily available for comparison's sake. It's tough when you don't have a baseline starting price.

[Scott Shepherd]

Jacob, if she isn't already, get her going on CorelDraw. Running the laser is the easy part :)

I also think Robbert Tepper's Rayjet is the one like a Speedy, not the one like you are looking at, but I'm not positive about that. I think it uses the same software on both machines. It's called "Commander" or something like that.

It really does almost ask your questions, step by step, to get the job to the laser with the right settings, but you'll have to have the file in Corel (or whatever you want to use) before it gets to that step.

Nothing wrong with starting small and growing into the business. That's how most all of us started.

[Robert Tepper]

Hello Jacob,

I own a Rayjet 300 with 80 watts. I have had the machine for 3 years this July and I am more than happy with my investment. I do a lot of engraved labels, Rowmark signage, stencils, rubber stamps, part marking etc.

The machine has been down 2 days in 3 years and Trotec sent the parts overnight. I am very happy with my investment. The software is very simple, not as extensive as the Speedy software. I do plan on purchasing a Speedy 300 or 400 by the end of the year, just have to see how the money situation is. If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me.

Best of luck in your investment,
Robert

[Jacob John]

Ok guys, sorry to keep asking questions, but I've been looking around this evening, and while it isn't large, there's a small market for previously owned lasers. Now usually, and in this case as well, I'm very leery of purchasing used equipment because you never know how the previous owner took care of it. However, there are a few sites that offer 6 month to 1 year warranties on their equipment, and there are quite a few that I might consider. I know that this takes me in a slightly different direction, especially with the software ease of use concern, but it's hard not to consider it. Have any of you purchased a used one? Two that I'm looking at are the Universal VLS 4.60 and the VLS 6.60, both 60 watts and just over a year old.

[Scott Shepherd]

Make sure it's not access used lasers.

[Bert Kemp]

Just curious as to if you've considered a USA based Chinese laser. You can purchase a nice 60 watt with a larger bed size a 9 inch z axis that will cut and engrave your boxes just fine at a fraction of the cost of a trotec . Also top notch USA support .Just something else to consider.

[Lee DeRaud]

The Versalaser is here: http://www.versalaser.com.au/ I saw it listed at $6,800 on one website.(Most of the discussion so far seems to be focused on the Rayjet, but I'll toss this in.)
Note that the site you linked to is in Australia...for Versalaser and other ULS products, start here: http://www.ulsinc.com/products/configure/?gclid=CLqLlf7V4MUCFYlhfgodQ54ABQ
And unless prices have taken a huge drop since I looked last, that $6800 price is astonishingly low.

I've had the original "entry-level" Versalaser, the VL200, for over ten years now, and can't come up with anything bad to say about the machine, the company, or the distributors I've had contact with. I admit that mine was purchased for personal use (AKA "hobby", a word usually used as an insult around here), but it's handled everything I've thrown at it, including some things that some folks here will tell you are impossible for a machine in the 25W-30W range.

[Jacob John]

(Most of the discussion so far seems to be focused on the Rayjet, but I'll toss this in.)
Note that the site you linked to is in Australia...for Versalaser and other ULS products, start here: http://www.ulsinc.com/products/configure/?gclid=CLqLlf7V4MUCFYlhfgodQ54ABQ
And unless prices have taken a huge drop since I looked last, that $6800 price is astonishingly low.

I've had the original "entry-level" Versalaser, the VL200, for over ten years now, and can't come up with anything bad to say about the machine, the company, or the distributors I've had contact with. I admit that mine was purchased for personal use (AKA "hobby", a word usually used as an insult around here), but it's handled everything I've thrown at it, including some things that some folks here will tell you are impossible for a machine in the 25W-30W range.


Thank you, Lee. When I looked harder at the site offering the $6,850 Versalaser,it's offering the case and robotics for that price. To add a 30 watt laser, it increases by another $4,800. That makes a bit more sense.

I'm still leaning toward the Rayjet, and I received some initial pricing today. For everything I need, the price is very comparable to some of Epilog's lasers (I found some pricing for them online today). I really believe that the difference is going to be the learning curve on the commander software, but I want to hear from Universal before I make a decision. I'm not dismissing used, but it's tough to get past that barrier of not knowing how someone treated their equipment.

[Tony Lenkic]

Jacob,

If you are not aware, Engravers network is ULS rep for your area. They usually have some pre-owned laser for sale that come with 6 month warranty.
Their location is in Arlington, check them out..............http://www dot engraversnetwork dot com/products/used-equipment/

[Jacob John]

Jacob,

If you are not aware, Engravers network is ULS rep for your area. They usually have some pre-owned laser for sale that come with 6 month warranty.
Their location is in Arlington, check them out..............http://www dot engraversnetwork dot com/products/used-equipment/

Thank you, Tony, I will check them out.

[Bill George]

Thank you, Tony, I will check them out.

I purchased a refurbished 2006 ULS from a dealer near me. 50 watt machine but the tube was recharged and it measured a little over 60 watts. Price was close to the newer lower wattage machine you are looking at and it will do all you need done.

[Jeanette Brewer]

Jacob,

You've received some excellent, valuable advice/info here. I don't know in which part of Texas you reside but, especially if you're anywhere near Arlington (and even if not!), I'd recommend making the trip.

The city of Arlington is home to authorized distributors for Epilog (Engraving Concepts), Trotec (Chris Cudmore) and Universal (Engravers Network) lasers. All three distributors are very knowledgeable and have "been around" for quite awhile. You'll get all your questions answered & then some!

If you're closer to Houston, that works too. We (Engraving Concepts) have a showroom very near Hobby airport. I believe that Engravers Network (ULS) has a part-time Houston demo facility too.

Alternatively, if you'll let me know where you are, we'd be happy to bring a laser to YOU for a hands-on demo the next time we're in your "neck of the woods".

Finally, since you mentioned used lasers, we happen to have several used lasers available right now. That's not usually the case but we have 4 of them in the warehouse right now (two of them are the smaller Zing16 & Zing24 systems).