Premium lathes for spindles and small-medium bowls?

[Mike Holbrook]

I'm glad I have not ordered a lathe yet. I thought about a Oneway 1224 or 1236 for a while. I was nervous about that machine due to concerns about the smallish 1hp motor on both models. I am glad I did not order a Grizzly as my fears about delivery dates have proven valid and when delivery dates slip like that I start wondering what might be behind the smoke. I have also been experiencing allergic reactions with the skin on my hands that have limited my ability to do much of the "hand" tool work I would like to be doing. It may be that a lathe will allow me to stay involved with woodworking while the doctors try to figure out a longer term solution to my skin issues.

Lately I have been thinking about buying one of the better, premium, North American made lathes. It just seems like there are too many issues that can and often do show up with the less expensive lathes that are partially or entirely manufactured in China. I expect these issues will eventually get worked out but, about the time they do I expect some new feature set will toss things back into uproar. I am less confident of products that are manufactured to compete at very competitive price points. I fear there are just too many chances for some sort of attempt to reduce manufacturing cost to result in more problems than calculated. I think I would rather spend the extra money to be more confident that the product I am buying will be over engineered.

I am a combo hand tool and machine woodworker, who, until recently, preferred to do as much with hand tools as possible. The dust and set up time for many machine made projects are issues for me. I want to make chair and table legs that will be under 36". I actually think 24-28" between centers would handle my needs. I am interested in turning smaller 12 " & under bowls and plates. I am working on some less conventional ways to make chair seats and larger bowls. I believe I can do more of these jobs with a hammer and large chisels/gouges and save a little stress on my hands vs using an adze, inshave or axe. I seem to run into problems when I rub the skin on my hands too hard the wrong way.

Robust seems to be the most popular premium lathe on this forum. I have been studying the machines they make but I am not sure what might be the best machine for me. I think the Liberty is a favorite among creekers? The Liberty looks to me to be a little better design for spindles than the Sweet 16, which seems to lean more toward turning bowls? The independence appears to be designed for seated turning. Price information is not easy to find on the Robust web site. If I step up to a larger model Oneway (from the 1224/1236) I am wondering if I might find another viable option? The Oneway 1640 looks like it might get me into a premium lathe for around $1000 less and at least on paper it appears to meet all my requirements. The Oneway 1640 seems to offer most of the options that are features of their larger lathes.

[Alan Trout]

Mike,

I own a Robust AB longbed which is an incredible machine. I think the Sweet 16 would fit you perfectly. The quality is great and it can be had with a 2HP or a 1.5 motor. The standard bed version has plenty of length for table or chair legs and After you start turning more you will want the extra swing capacity. It is much easier to turn a 12" bowl on a 16" swing. It will run you about 6k depending on options. I have used the Sweet 16 and it is awesome and compact. I may even end up with one for another teaching lathe in the shop at some point. I would call Brent and talk with him. He is very approachable and is really interested in what is best for you. There is never a hard sell and there really is no need for a hard sell as his products are that good. I own several lathes and I can honestly say that the Robust products are an incredible value for what you get. Over time the cost of the lathe is very small part of the turning experience.

Alan

[Dennis Ford]

I have not used any of the small premium lathes but can tell you that 1 hp is adequate for a 12" swing machine. I am talking about a real 1hp motor running near its rated speed.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I have an American Beauty, and a Liberty. Love them both. I consider the 16 inch lathes to be mid sized. You seldom have a need for a bowl larger than 16 inch diameter. That is huge family size, or for some one who entertains a lot. The biggest difference I can see between the Liberty and the Sweet 16 is the sliding headstock. For me, the sliding headstock is for bowls. You move it down to near the end, and you can stand up straight while turning bowls, and not have to lean over, or extend your arms out for turning the inside or outside of the bowl. The variable speed is wonderful, more so for bowls than for spindles. If you turned only spindles, then just about any 4 speed lathe will work. Turning bowl blanks, which are most of the time out of balance, you need the variable speed. Having 220 volt electricity, and 2 hp is maybe not 'necessary', but it makes things a lot easier. Robust is made in the USA, which is a selling point for me. There should be some in you area to check them out. Find the nearest club, or contact Brent directly at Robust. I have demoed on the small Oneway, and thought it was under powered for a 1 hp motor. Also, it doesn't have a sliding headstock. There is a claim by many who turn on fixed headstock lathes that there is less vibration on cast iron when compared to steel bed lathes. Possibly, but I haven't spent any time on a lathe like that. For sure, they make different sounds. If money is an issue, then the PM 3520 is a very good lathe, the Jet 1642 with either a 1.5 hp motor, or the Nova DVR. I don't care for the Nova as it has a very slow ramp up/down speed control button, but it does have several preset speeds you can select. There are a lot of choices.

robo hippy

[Jeffrey J Smith]

If you're looking for a lathe and are even considering one of the premium machines on the market, you really owe it to yourself to spend some time and actually use each of the candidates. Contact the manufacturer and get in touch with actual customers - talk to them first hand. If the manufacturer / distributor isn't willing or able to help in the process, think hard about what kind of service you can expect after you've plunked down your hard earned cash.
Buying a premium machine means you're buying better components, more thoughtful engineering and better ergonomics that all adds up to a machine that will outperform and outlast the options. Otherwise it isn't worth the premium price.

[Thomas Canfield]

Even for turning 12" and under bowls and platters etc, a larger swing is nice for starting the rough blank if you use green wood. I also find the clearance from center to ways to be a problem on the swing of a bowl gouge when using a 12" lathe, but it can be done. I do suggest giving consideration to a 16" or even the Powermatic 3520B which I have. I do turn some on my little Nova Comet II which is 12", but do notice the clearance to ways stated but it can be done.

[Mike Holbrook]

I believe the Robust Sweet 16, Liberty and Independence are all 16" lathes as is the Oneway 1640? For the purposes of this thread then it seems that all these lathes meet the 16", "mid Size", qualification. I can call Robust and Oneway and see if I can locate something in my area to try out. This does seem like a wise course. I just wonder if carrying this plan out will prove workable, then I do live within Metro Atlanta so I imagine there are lathes around.

The Oneway 1640 seems the largest capacity and heaviest of these lathes but it also seems to be the least expensive. Are there substantial design features that the Robust lathes offers over the Oneway? The Robust Sweet 16 does seem to have some unique design features, I am just having a hard time figuring out whether or not those features would prove to be benefits in the work I plan to do?

[Jason Edwards]

Mike, you say pricing is hard to find for Robust, but there is a price list link on the home page, down in the lower left corner. Also if you go to any of the lathe pages, there is a tab that says "purchase" that has pricing info. In fact, you can build your lathe there just the way you want and get full pricing info. I've always thought one thing to consider on the Oneway vs Robust question is the warranty, Robust is 7 years for all the mechanical parts including the bearings and Oneway is only two years and specifically excludes the bearings. That said a lot to me. Good luck with your choice.

[Mike Tilley]

Mike
i to was having a hard time deciding which lathe to purchase as it is quite an investment. I finally narrowed it down to the sweet 16 or the American beauty. After 2 months of wearing out the browser going to the robust web site and several calls to them I finally chose the AB. Brent and Deb were both very easy to talk to and answered all of my questions and told me that either machine would work for what I was wanting to do. The sliding head stock was the thing that determined my decision. Although the sweet 16 would have done everything I needed. I ordered a 3 hp with tilt away and gas shock.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the tip on finding the prices on the Robust page Jason. I had not discovered the section of the page that has to be scrolled to. Not a fan of the pagination methods used. I hate getting locked out of a site because I went to a page I need to see, especially a pricing/parts list page.

Now that I can see the pricing I find it interesting that there is so little price difference between the four different basic body styles Robust makes. I thought the Sweet 16 was a good deal more than the Liberty until I noticed the Sweet 16 base unit is listed with legs/stand and the Liberty is not. There is only $500 difference between a standard size Sweet 16 and a Liberty with legs which is not much over the life of such a product IMHO.

I am a little confused about motor speeds. The Robust lathes use a single belt while the Oneways use 2 belt systems. I believe both are called variable speed lathes but is a lathe really variable speed if reaching the full speed range requires switching between belts? I also find it interesting that the small Oneway 1224 has the greatest speed variation (0-2,000/0-4,000), while the Robust Liberty and Sweet 16 are 60-2,900 speed ranges. The Oneway 1640 is 14-700/51-2,585, significantly more limited speed wise. I assume there is some reason for the larger machines having slower speed ranges? Do larger machines just have more inertia or something?

[Alan Trout]

With larger swing lathes you are turning larger items so you need it to be slow for out of balance and misshaped pieces. Also some of the VFD's (these make the motors variable speed) on the market do not produce as much torque across the RPM range so they use multiple sized pulley's to achieve the desired torque. Brent has found a VFD/motor combination that will deliver the torque without the need for pulley size changes on the Sweet 16 and the Liberty. The Robust AB still has two pulley ranges for extra torque for large heavy items. I generally keep my AB in the high range. 60 to 2900 RPM should be all most people would ever really need.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Mike,
I am interested in why you went with the Robust American Beauty? The Sweet 16 apparently can handle larger pieces, up to 32" vs 25" on the AB. It sounds like the sliding headstock was attractive. I guess the sliding head stock allows one to work on the far end of the frame to turn even larger objects off the end, which you believe would be a more beneficial feature than the Sweet 16 system that moves a part of the frame to the side of the motor? Obviously both systems can work or Robust would not build that ability into the Sweet 16. The frame beside the turning piece, a la the Sweet 16 system, would seem to offer a greater variety of banjo positions relative to the work. I have seen banjo support systems that attach to the end of frames with sliding heads as accessories. Maybe this is what Mike plans to do?

Maybe the available body and banjo positioning relative to the work is the issue? I'm not sure whether or not these features in regard to body and banjo positioning may be/become actual benefits as a result of: personal preference, depend on personal experiences and habits or may offer actual benefits in terms of ability to reach the work? I have also read that some do not like sliding heads. Apparently, some feel this feature introduces a certain amount of vibration and inaccuracy into the system. I suspect that Robust manufacturers to a high enough tolerance to eliminate most of the "slop" between parts, still time and use would seem to eventually introduce some error? The video showing how the piece in the frame of the Sweet 16 is moved into the optional positions makes it seem easy to do, but I also know that any extra steps can be detrimental to work flow.

I had no idea why anyone would have the need to turn objects over 16" until I saw the Robust video on the Sweet 16, in which, a 32" table top is turned. Still I'm not sure I would make a 32" circular object that way rather than just cutting it out with one of my powered or hand saws. I still wonder about which methods would be the least work and the safest for a project of that nature.

Initially the more compact Sweet 16 systems features have a little more attraction for me, even if that flexibility does require a little more set up time.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for helping to clarify my issues understanding the motors and ranges Alan. I think the Leeson motors on the Robust have a good reputation. My Laguna 14" SUV bandsaw has a 3hp Leeson on it, but I have not used it long enough to have an opinion on it. I know very little about the motors Oneway uses other than to see they list the 1224 with a 1hp Marathon motor. The larger Oneway lathes seem to offer at least a 1.5 or 2hp motor but they do not say what kind that I can find.

I talked to Brent. There is a Liberty in Roswell, very close, and a Sweet 16 South of Atlanta. I believe he contacts the owners to get permission for me to call them so I am trying to narrow down my thoughts a little more before attempting to set up a visit.

[Mike Tilley]

Mike
when I first started looking at robust I thought a sweet16 was all I needed and I still believe that today. I went to a fellow woodturners shop who had one it was a nice machine. he said he was very satisfied with it and how it performed.
we talked for awhile and he showed me how everything worked and I was very impressed with it very top quality on everything. At that time I was ready to buy the sweet 16. However as I was getting ready to go he said that sometimes he wished he had gotten the AB because of the sliding head stock. Well that sent me back to square one unsure of which way to go. At that point I was just starting to build myself a new shop so I didn't order anything just kept looking at the website and reading the coustomer reviews.
Up until the day I ordered the lathe it was the sweet16 with the tilt away and steady rest. Then I got to thinking that some time down the road I may not like(or be able to)bend over to hollow so the sliding head stock came back into play.
made my mind up right before I dialed the number to order.
up until now I've only had trouble with turning over 16" a couple of times so I know 25" will be plenty. The ability to turn things 32 " was attractive to me as I do a lot of segmented work and thought platters that big would be awesome but 25" will have to work
all in all the sweet16 is what they call it sweet but with this being the last machine I will ever buy I feel that I made the right decision.

[Reed Gray]

I don't really know about the Oneway belt set up. If they have 2 belts, I would guess that they are standard V belts, but that is a guess. Any one know? The Robust lathes have one of the belts that is 1 inch wide with a bunch of tiny grooves, or v ridges in it. The v gives a lot of extra surface area for good grip. I can get mine to slip, but when roughing, I make my lathe sweat. As far as sliding headstock vs fixed headstock, it comes down to turning style for bowls and some hollow forms. With a fixed headstock, you can turn outboard off the back end of the lathe. It used to be that you had to turn on the left side, but I am pretty sure advancements have been made to cover that. If you turn over the bed, then your turning style will be different than mine. If you watch Stuart Batty and his push cut, he holds his tools to start the cuts at arm's length away from his body, then pulls the tool in closer to his body as the cut progresses. Mike Mahoney's pull cut is another variation where he doesn't have to extend his arms out so far from his body. Turning out the inside of the bowl, they both do it in a similar fashion. The thing is, if you want to keep the tool close to your body, you have to bend over at your waist, and that makes my back sore just thinking about it. When you slide the headstock down to the end, you can move, pivot, and push while keeping your tools in close to your body. I prefer the sliding headstock for that reason. I show more about this in my video clip, Bowl Turning Ergonomics on You Tube.

For speeds, since bowls are larger diameter than spindles, they turn at much slower rpm than spindles which are smaller diameter. It would be interesting to see the feet per minute rates of a 16 inch bowl, and a 2 inch diameter spindle. I might be able to do the math, but it has been a long long time. I think pen turners use the 4,000 range. For the Liberty, if you are doing table legs, 2800 is fine, though maybe a bit slow if you are a master spindle turner. The speed ranges can be adjusted as well. You would need to talk to Brent about that. My Beauty has 3 speeds. It came with the high end in 3rd gear being about 3,000. First gear was maybe 900, and second gear was 1200 I think. For me, first gear was too slow for about 90% of what I turn. Second gear was better, but still too slow. 3rd gear didn't have the torque for coring and the heavy roughing I do. I also needed speeds of about 20 rpm for sanding out my warped bowls. Some time on the phone with Brent, and now second gear goes to about 2200, which is as high as I need for any bowl. The slow speed runs cooler than when I am turning because there is almost no load on the lathe as I power sand.

robo hippy

[Geoff Whaling]

I'm glad I have not ordered a lathe yet. I thought about a Oneway 1224 or 1236 for a while. I was nervous about that machine due to concerns about the smallish 1hp motor on both models.

Interesting that there is no mention of Vicmarc lathes in this discussion. The VL240 with an extension bed would more than meet your expectations. Even the new smaller VL150 lathe which I have purchased will do all that you mention, or perhaps the VL175 is more the target size. Both the VL175 & 240's have rotating headstocks.

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Manufacturer/Vicmarc/Vicmarc_Wood_lathes/Vicmarc_V00758-3US

http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=602

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

Interesting that there is no mention of Vicmarc lathes in this discussion. The VL240 with an extension bed would more than meet your expectations. Even the new smaller VL150 lathe which I have purchased will do all that you mention, or perhaps the VL175 is more the target size. Both the VL175 & 240's have rotating headstocks.

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Manufacturer/Vicmarc/Vicmarc_Wood_lathes/Vicmarc_V00758-3US

http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=602

because they read this in the original post: Lately I have been thinking about buying one of the better, premium, North American made lathes.

[Robert Henrickson]

For speeds, since bowls are larger diameter than spindles, they turn at much slower rpm than spindles which are smaller diameter. It would be interesting to see the feet per minute rates of a 16 inch bowl, and a 2 inch diameter spindle.

If both are rotating at the same RPM, a point on the 16" bowl rim would be traveling at 8x the ft/min of a point on the 2" diameter spindle (circumference is 8x greater). At 1000 RPM, the point on the bowl would be traveling somewhat more than 4000 ft/min, on the spindle roughly 500.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think Vic marc is made in Australia? I did try looking them up on the internet but I did not find nearly as much info. on them so I assumed they were not strong in the US market. The YouTube videos I saw of people using them seemed to be by Aussie turners. Thanks for the links Geoff, I will check them out. Shawn is correct though, I was trying to look at lathes made in North America. Robust & Oneway seem to be the favorites. I find Stubby/Omega lathes, another Aussie product, mentioned sometimes but thus far I have only found limited information on them too.

I have found that tools which are popular with a large number of SMC posters are usually good reliable products. I have been considering Robust lathes largely because they seem to be very popular with SMC turners. Oneway is also a very well made lathe but I have noted that they are not as popular among SMC posters.

Brent at Robust mentioned the stainless steel "ways" on the Robust lathes as possibly being a feature which might be of benefit to a turner who plans to turn green wood like I do. He seemed to think Robust lathes were the only lathes that use this type of steel on all their standard lathes. I'm just not sure if others products may handle the moisture issue in other ways. I can also see that the Robust lathes have very thick rugged finish on them. Many lathes seem to loose a great deal of their finish relatively quickly. Again these features may benefit a turner interested in green wood.

[Wally Dickerman]

I'm interested in what folks mean when they say the Oneway is a two belt system. My Oneway has one flat grooved belt with three pulley speed raNGES. My lathe stays on the high speed range giving me speeds of less than 50 up to around 4000 rpm. I've never bogged down the two hp motor on that setting.

The sliding headstock on some of the newer lathes is a wonderful feature. Being able to stand upright, facing the piece to hollow bowls and HFs is the only way to go. Not only more comfortable and easier on the back but safer. I accomplish the same thing with an outboard bed on my Oneway.

When I bought my Oneway Robust had just come on the market and I examined one at a symposium. While the Robust is a high quality lathe as is the Oneway, and the price tag is about the same I felt that the Oneway fit my needs better. I've never regretted my choice. My lathe is my 9th lathe over a long period of years and at age 94 it'll be my last.

I get a chuckle out of young folks who say they are buying a lathe that will last them forever. There have many great improvements is recent lathes on the market and we have no idea what's in the future.

[Geoff Whaling]

because they read this in the original post: Lately I have been thinking about buying one of the better, premium, North American made lathes.


;-) You could look at it from the "Lately I have been thinking about buying one of the better, premium, .... lathes" & not asian?Being Australian & a proud Queenslander I support locally made as much as you guys support made in USA or made in Canada. That's why I purchased a Queensland manufactured Vicmarc VL150 to compliment my original Woodfast M908 and "Kiwi made" Nova Mercury (well that's a bit of a stretch on the Nova). Seriously the Vicmarc will stand in good stead against the Robust's & Oneway's and given the very good $US to $AUD conversion I would think that they are very good value in North America at the moment.

Vicmarc are machined and assembled in Queensland from cast components that are poured/made in Thailand I believe. Check out their Facebook page for some snaps of WIP.

I have no affiliation with Vicmarc whatsoever other than being a very satisfied customer and one that likes to use a quality product and to see successful small family owned businesses thrive internationally.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the info. Geoff. My wife's cousin will be here next week from New Zealand. The wife's mum was a Kiwi which makes my wife a Kiwi by birth. It is good to know the Vicmarc is at least machined and assembled down under. I saw a couple YouTube videos from your part of the globe and they were very big on Vicmarc which is why I was trying to look up info. on them. I will do some research on them as well. My only concern about Vicmark being getting parts for what appears to be a metric machine. I know the rest of the world should just convert to metric but I think it will take a while. Were I on the other side of the globe I might have misgivings about Robust or Oneway for the same reason.

Wally which Oneway did you buy? It seems like everyone on SMC who has one has either the 1224 or the 2436. I have been trying to get a report on the mid size 1640.

[Reed Gray]

Well, 2 American turners that I know of that use the Vicmark are Mike Mahoney and Dale Bonertz. You could include Stuart Batty in the mix because he lives here, even if he came from the UK.

As for a difference in the lathe bed, my PM, when I sold it had a nice black patina to the ways. I have read more than once of some who prefer it a little black because then the tailstock locks down tighter. I have had problems with the banjo and the hole for the tool rests. Lots of moisture gets down in there, and I have to sand it out every once in a while because the tool posts get kind of sticky. I have tried Boeshield, WD 40, Top Coat, and lithium grease. Still have to sand it out once in a while. I would think that stainless posts, and a sleeve in the banjo would be very expensive. I can live with that part.

For longevity, well, if I live to be as old as Wally, and my birth certificate hasn't expired, I don't think I will be able to wear out my Robust. Hmm, sounds like a challenge....

robo hippy

[Mike Holbrook]

Should I worry about any lathe without stainless ways since I will be working a good deal of green wood? I'm not exactly sure what Reed is implying in regard to black patina on ways? I have had some positive experience with Renaissance Wax as a protection from rust but not on the scale of lathe ways.

I am confident the Robust ways will stand up, not so sure about the rest?

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

I wouldn't worry about it.

I turn green wood, and also do CA finishes and wet sanding on my PM. I put a towel down while wet sanding and wipe down ways to remove water when finished.

if the ways get gunky - and yes, sometimes a bit of rust, I clean it up with WD40 or Boeshield. If it's really bad, I use a high-speed die grinder fitted with a Scotch-brite roloc pad with WD40 as a lubricant.

These are the pads I use: http://www.amazon.com/3M-07486-Scotch-Brite-Surface-Conditioning/dp/B000B91090/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1432666073&sr=8-12&keywords=scotch+brite+3m

[Alan Trout]

If you are turning a lot of wet wood stainless ways are awesome. I have two lathes without stainless ways and one with. No questions which one I would pick if I could only keep one.

[Reed Gray]

By a nice black patina, I mean that your lathe, and ways are nice had shiny bright when they get to you. If you live any where with any amount of humidity in the air, your cast iron ways never stay shiny bright. They darken with age. Some seem to be obsessed with keeping them that way. The only real danger is if you let it rust and sit without polishing off the rust. Wax, WD40, and other similar things keep it from pitting. Other than that, I don't consider it some thing to worry about. After wearing out the headstock bearings on my PM (5 heavy use years of wet, chainsawn blanks and no tailstock support), I took the headstock in to get them replaced. Emergency situation of course. They had to torch and beat the bearings out because they had rusted in place.

robo hippy

[Dale Bonertz]

Mike,

The only thing metric on the vicmarc in America is the banjo, 30mm, and that can be ordered one inch. Everything else sold here is our standards, 1 1/4" x 8, #2 MT and etc. The 30mm tool post is actually kinda nice since it is heavier than the 1" we have as standard. I purchased two or three reducers for that rare occasion in which I may need to reduce to 1" for my odd sized tool rests I have in my possession. Parts are not a problem because Christian at Woodworker Emporium takes care of his customers as well as anyone.

[Mike Holbrook]

Sounds like stainless steel ways are nice but not a requirement for working green wood. I heard stainless can be added to Oneway orders but it is a very expensive option. I know some of the Oneway tool rests are made of stainless. Someone suggested to me that the "mild steel" used in Oneway lathes might be more susceptible to rusting, especially compared to the Robust ways.

Good to know about the Vicmarc lathes Dale. I wasn't impressed with Woodworker Emporium in the one transaction I had with them. I was trying to get an answer regarding a tool I bought from them that I was having trouble setting up. There may not have been an "answer" though. Good to know that Dale has had positive experiences. I will check out the Vicmarcs at Woodworker Emporium.

The feature that is straining my brain the most at this point is the swing capacity. I started out thinking I would never be interested in turning large bowls and plates so swing distance did not concern me much. I see videos where guys are turning table bases, table tops etc., that are not bowls but take advantage of the larger swing capacity. It is the things I can't conceive of needing that worry me. Then again how many large objects might I really end up wanting to turn...

[Michael Mason]

I have an American Beauty. The stainless ways are not "necessary", but sure are nice. I turn green wood all of the time, and I mean a lot, and they still look like they are new. I just wipe them off with my hand. Like you mentioned before, there is not a whole lot of price difference once you get in this range, so I went ahead and got the big lathe. No regrets.

[carl mesaros]

[
The feature that is straining my brain the most at this point is the swing capacity. I started out thinking I would never be interested in turning large bowls and plates so swing distance did not concern me much. I see videos where guys are turning table bases, table tops etc., that are not bowls but take advantage of the larger swing capacity. It is the things I can't conceive of needing that worry me. Then again how many large objects might I really end up wanting to turn...[/QUOTE]

I recently moved from a 16" swing lathe (Jet 1642) to a 24" swing lathe (Laguna 2436) and the convieniance of being able to move the banjo back and forth across the workpiece is really nice. Even turning a 12" bowl on the jet I was unable to move the banjo without it hitting the bowl blank.
The added weight or mass of a larger swing lathe is also heavenly.

[Mike Holbrook]

I talked to Oneway today. They apparently do not care for sliding heads. Instead they build their lathes so the turner can work on the outboard as well as inboard side of the head. Seems like a good idea to me, I suppose like anything there are disadvantages. I just wonder what disadvantages there would be compared to sliding the head all the way to the other end of the frame?

[Michael Mason]

I talked to Oneway today. They apparently do not care for sliding heads. Instead they build their lathes so the turner can work on the outboard as well as inboard side of the head. Seems like a good idea to me, I suppose like anything there are disadvantages. I just wonder what disadvantages there would be compared to sliding the head all the way to the other end of the frame?

Well the obvious would be that you have to have room to access the outboard side. I keep my tools to that side so I have mine close to the wall. It wouldn't be a problem if you had it more to the middle of a room. The other would be a bed extension on the outboard side to use. I think it comes down to preference, both are fine machines. You could always buy one of each!

[Jack Mincey]

I have owned a OneWay 1640 for around 8 years now and love it. I have the outboard attachment that makes it a wonderful short bed lathe for bowls. I have the tailstock end angled toward the wall in my shop with the headstock end angled out about 5 feet. This allows me to stand and turn comfortably on the outboard end. It doesn't take much room out of my shop except for the length of the lathe. Just a heads up one can place the 24" outboard bed extension on the tailstock end of the lathe and have a 64" bed for spindle work if needed. Here is a picture of me standing where I would turn on the outboard side of my lathe. I've turned a great deal on PM"S and the big jets at the high school shops I use to teach at and while they are good lathes they are not equal to the top end lathes I've had the pleasure to turn on.
Jack
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/flyrod444/DSC00256.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/flyrod444/media/DSC00256.jpg.html)

[Wally Dickerman]

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I have a Oneway with an outboard bed. I do all of my hollowing on the outboard side where I can comfortably face the piece instead of bending over the bed. A safer way to do it because I'm not in the line of fire. I have a banjo on both sides of the headstock. If I've turned the piece between centers I merely move the piece still mounted on the chuck or faceplate to the outboard side. I turn left handed so I hollow in reverse. With the Oneway chucks I can lock the chuck or faceplate to the spindle. I have a remote on-off switch so I can move that where I want it. It's A system that has worked well for me for many years and hundreds of turnings. I can see no disadvantage here at all. I have a spindle lathe and a bowl lathe all in one.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for posting Jack. I have been trying to find someone who uses a Oneway 1640.

Sounds like the Oneway 1640 with the outboard bed would be similar to a Robust Sweet Sixteen with the removable section in the inboard bed. The Oneway would offer the advantage of working in an arguably better/safer location. The Robust would offer a little more capacity in a more compact package. Both would offer a bed extension that could be used in two different locations.

Wally it does sound like the set up you and Jack use is very flexible allowing the turner to switch rapidly between spindles and hollowing bowls. Having the ability to work either spindles or bowls on the same lathe with the same set up sounds like a major bonus. The only issue being the longer length of the machine.


It looks like one might want two banjo's with a 1640? The outboard extension looks very sturdy. I think the object on the end is to get the banjo up to normal spindle height from the lower bed position? I can't figure out what is right in front of it though?

[Jack Mincey]

I do have a banjo for both inboard and outboard side of my lathe. The outboard has a 24" swing so the taller outboard banjo allows one to use the same tool rest for both ends of the lathe. The Outboard bed came with a tool rest that had a longer post so one could use it on the outboard side with the shorter inboard banjo. I used it this way for about a year and went a head and bought the outboard banjo and like it better. One other thing that you can see in the picture is the riser block. It allows you to use the tailstock on the outboard side of the lathe. I don't remember if the riser block came with the outboard bed or if it was extra? I can take the tailstock off on this lathe using one hand without a problem. On the PM's I've turned on one had better have a good hold with both hands when taking the tail stock off or putting it on.
Jack

[Mike Holbrook]

More helpful insight into the most useful options for the 1640 Jack. Should I order one I will keep your considerable experience in mind. I will study the Oneway parts list and pictures soon so I know the specific parts of which you speak. I suspect a Oneway with the extra outboard gear will cost close to what a Robust Sweet 16 will. Those are the two most attractive options for me at the moment.

[Jack Mincey]

Mike, when I bought my lathe it was the only brand of high end lathe available made in North America , that I knew of anyway. I look at my lathe as if it is two lathes in one. Inboard one has a top end spindle lathe and on the outboard side one has a 24" swing short bed lathe that makes turning bowls a pleasure. I haven't really looked at another lathe since buying this one. With the extra's I have on this one it does add up to around what the sweet 16 would cost, but if I'm not mistaken the Sweet 16 doesn't have the short bed lathe capability of the 1640? While there are many great turners using longer bed lathes to turn wonderful bowls and HF's on I would never want to turn either bowls of HF's on anything but a short bed lathe or a sliding headstock lathe which functions in the same manner. This being said if I was to buy a Robust which I feel are top shelf all the way I would bite the bullet and get the American Beauty no question. If they had been in business when I got my lathe there is a good possibility that I would have bought one. I just feel it is important to support companies that make a great product in our county when possible. I also believe in buying the best the first time around and saving one the hassle of always wanting to upgrade later on. Im sure that Robust has great customer service, but I have first hand experience with One Way's customer service and it was incredible to say the least. They stand behind their product period.
Jack

[Mike Holbrook]

More great info. Jack.

I have had several suggestions to "bite the bullet" and buy the Robust American Beauty. I know several people here have the Liberty which at least on the surface sounds like it will handle my needs. The 28", standard bed, spindle length should handle just about anything I would want to make spindle wise. A 16" extension would accommodate a 44" spindle lengths should I discover a need for longer spindles. The sliding head would provide all the distance I can imagine needing for bowls, plates or even round table tops.

Looks like I could save a little money and get a better base if I did not order legs but built a base? Are there trade offs other than time and materials if I built a base?

[Bob Bergstrom]

I own the American Beauty and must say it is built for big bowls and large hollow forms. The liberty will work well for your needs. I suggest calling Bret and talk to him about the stand option. Maybe he could put you in contact with individuals who have built their own and save you time and effort. The Robust base is well designed and rock solid.

[Reed Gray]

If money is an issue, then build your own stand. It is a square tube that stands on edge. If money is not a big issue, you will save hours of time buying the standard base, and the telescoping legs. A wonderful set up.

robo hippy

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the thoughts Bob & Reed.
Building a bench/cabinet to hold the machine could provide storage space to store the tools used on the lathe, maybe even spindles, legs, rungs I am working on. The Robust Liberty may benefit from additional weight and a sturdy thick surface as well, at least compared to a Oneway 1640 at 600lbs. I imagine the cost is restricted leg room around the lathe.

The Oneway 1640 seems to offer both a bowl and spindle lathe without any setup, if purchased with the outboard bowl extension. The Robust Liberty will do much the same work but would require setup procedures and more money. I am concerned that working bowls on the Sweet 16 might not be great for my sore back.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am a little confused regarding lathe prices I read on this forum. I have seen a couple posts where the Robust American Beauty is said to cost around $10,000. The price I see on the Robust site for a standard bed 2 HP machine is $6,595. I also see many people mention the Powermatic 3520B as a more cost effective alternative to the "Premium" lathes. The list prices I see currently listed for a 3520B and a Oneway 1640 are about the same. I think the Oneway 1640 is comparable or greater than the Powermatic in basic size/design and components.

I suspect that many people who buy premium lathes go for the largest motor, bed extension/tool rest for working on bowls off one end of the lathe, extra banjo.....I suspect the other price difference occurs because many people buy the mass produced machines at a discounted price? I wonder why more people do not have the Oneway 1640 as it seems to me to be a more versatile machine than the popular Powermatic 3250B, even if Oneway does not offer the discounted prices. Maybe the fact that Oneway and Robust build lathes as needed, resulting in longer delivery time frames turns some buyers off? It looks to me like a Robust Liberty can be bought for $500-$1000 of the cost of the Powermatic too, especially if the purchaser is willing to build a cabinet/stand. I just do not see the gigantic price differences so many seem to refer to in regard to Oneway and Robust products.

[Jason Edwards]

I know what you mean Mike, I've read comparisons of the big PM, the 4224B to the Robust AB. That's kind of an apples to apples comparison. The PM 4224B is about $7500. A Robust AB with 3HP and Tilt-Away is about $7900, made in America, much nicer construction and way more ergonomic + that includes the Tilt-Away, the coolest thing since sliced bread.

The thing is, the machines you mention, the PM 3520, Oneway 1640 and Robust Liberty are really not apples to apples. I think all of those machines are laid out different, but all are pretty good. I chose the Robust Sweet 16 because it does pretty much everything the PM3520 and Oneway 1640 does and fits my shop a whole lot better. Cost is about 6K. If you're looking in the 5K range, then the Liberty without legs is a really nice machine. I've seen one and they are every it as nicely made as the rest of the Robust line.

[Bob Dupras]

I am a little confused regarding lathe prices I read on this forum. I have seen a couple posts where the Robust American Beauty is said to cost around $10,000. The price I see on the Robust site for a standard bed 2 HP machine is $6,595. I also see many people mention the Powermatic 3520B as a more cost effective alternative to the "Premium" lathes. The list prices I see currently listed for a 3520B and a Oneway 1640 are about the same. I think the Oneway 1640 is comparable or greater than the Powermatic in basic size/design and components.
The $10,000 figure is probably rounded up a bit. But a fully loaded AB can easily go over $9000. And then there is shipping. Powermatic doesn't charge for basic shipping of the lathe. I think they do charge for accessories though. Shipping for an AB is around $500. Throw in a few extra toolrests, and you're really close to $10,000.

Comparing the Powermatic 3520 to the Oneway 1640 is a little hard. The oneway has a longer bed, but the PM has a bigger throw. The Oneway has a stationary headstock, and the PM has a sliding headstock. The Oneway has a metric M33 x 3.5 spindle and a MT#3 tailstock, and the PM has a 1 1/4 X 8 spindle and a MT#2 tailstock. If someone already has tooling that fits a particular spindle and tailstock, then it can make a big difference not to have to buy new tooling.

The Oneway starting price is for a 1.5 hp motor where the PM comes with a 2 hp motor.

For me, I want/need a sliding headstock because I don't have the room for a lathe with outboard turning on the other side of the headstock.


I know what you mean Mike, I've read comparisons of the big PM, the 4224B to the Robust AB. That's kind of an apples to apples comparison. The PM 4224B is about $7500. A Robust AB with 3HP and Tilt-Away is about $7900, made in America, much nicer construction and way more ergonomic + that includes the Tilt-Away, the coolest thing since sliced bread. I agree. I don't see how PM sells any 4224B lathes with the AB so close in price.

[Mike Holbrook]

Right Jason,

It is always hard in these threads to determine how much detail to try to get into. Too much detail seems to cause threads to die, but then too little can do the same thing. Maybe it is like honest Abe was reported to have said at the start of a speech. He apparently apologized at the start for the length of his remarks saying he just did not have time to write something shorter. It takes a great deal of time to write terse text, time it is sometimes hard to come up with.

It seems to me that the Oneway 1640, Robust Liberty/AB and the various Powermatic machines have three or four different solutions to the issue of space and approach angle for turning bowls or vases. I have talked to Oneway and Brent at Robust. Oneway does not like the idea of sliding/rotating heads as they feel the sliding mechanism introduces slop into the interface between the motor and turning area, also making it harder to have precise alignment between the two spindles. Oneway designs their heads such that the motor goes underneath the frame instead of toward the outboard side of the head. This design allows turners to use the motor from both sides. The advantage being that a turner can turn bowls on the outboard side of the head. Robust uses at least two methods, the sliding head on the Liberty and American Beauty and the movable frame section on the Sweet 16. There is a variation of the sliding head system that Robust uses on their Independence lathe. There are also heads that turn in place which may provide additional bowl turning options.

Having never turned a bowl, being more oriented towards turning spindles in my young experience, I am feeling my way through the dark on these bowl turning options. Another baffling issue for me is the various accessories that may be required/suggested/needed in order to take full advantage of a head oriented at the end of a lathe frame for bowl turning. I suspect that: bed extensions, tool rests, banjos, tilting mechanisms... added to the end of a lathe to help with turning bowls there are frequently the reason people spend so much in additional monies for a lathe? The Robust Sweet 16 has a unique system for dealing with these issues but I wonder if that system is back friendly? Some of us older people have the "occasional" back issue. I read about leaning over a lathe to turn bowls causing back issues, but I am kinda guessing as to which options are more or less back friendly. Working in the sitting position seems to be popular with people in wheel chairs fairly exclusively, however, I wonder if this might be the ultimate solution for back issues? On the other hand I am confident that trying to sit while working on a lathe creates it's own set of access issues.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Mike, it ain't rocket science. You can compare features until your head is spinning. I have turned on all the lathes mentioned. I have the Oneway 2436 and the Robust Liberty, plus 2 1224's. My girlfriend has the Liberty. I got the 2436 because for a while, I was in the turn big or go home camp. I have since come to my senses. My favorite of my lathes is the Oneway 1224. It meets 97% of my turning needs. Good luck with your decision.
Joe

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Joe,

You certainly got me thinking about the direction I was headed in when I first started my search/research. I have been having some allergic reactions on my hands that have limited my ability to do "hand" tool work for close to two years now. The last outbreak came after a recent course I took at Country Workshops, building a Rustic Windsor Chair. So I have spent more time researching and learning about tools than actually working wood recently. I am hoping to get whatever allergic reaction I have been having nailed down so I can get back to the actual projects and wood I have waiting.

I almost ordered a 1224 a couple months ago. I talked to Brent at Robust about his lathes and I talked to Oneway about the 1224, 1236 and 1640 lathes. I am not planing on buying a lathe for a month or two as I am working on a few medical issues, trying to get a daughter off to her first year in college...spending too much money and just too busy! I suspect that a Oneway 1224 will handle the majority of the work I have planned. If I continue to have issues with my hands though I may "turn" to turning as a way to work with wood that requires less physical stress on my hands. I have reason to think that doing things like swinging axes, adzes, heavy carving with a scorp, using a chain saw.....may cause me issues, while using spokeshaves, chisels, scrapers does not. The bottom line is neither the doctors or I have a handle on my physical issues so I am guessing based on experience what I can do without suffering physical issues. For now I am collecting as much knowledge about the various machines as I can find hoping that once I get a better handle on the physical issues I will be better able to choose an appropriate machine.

[Jason Edwards]

Gotta agree with Joe, it ain't rocket science. Get what you want and don't look back. You're suffering analysis paralysis. All of the machines have good resale value if you think you made a back choice down the road.

[Michael Mason]

The $10,000 figure is probably rounded up a bit. But a fully loaded AB can easily go over $9000. And then there is shipping. Powermatic doesn't charge for basic shipping of the lathe. I think they do charge for accessories though. Shipping for an AB is around $500. Throw in a few extra toolrests, and you're really close to $10,000.

Comparing the Powermatic 3520 to the Oneway 1640 is a little hard. The oneway has a longer bed, but the PM has a bigger throw. The Oneway has a stationary headstock, and the PM has a sliding headstock. The Oneway has a metric M33 x 3.5 spindle and a MT#3 tailstock, and the PM has a 1 1/4 X 8 spindle and a MT#2 tailstock. If someone already has tooling that fits a particular spindle and tailstock, then it can make a big difference not to have to buy new tooling.

The Oneway starting price is for a 1.5 hp motor where the PM comes with a 2 hp motor.

For me, I want/need a sliding headstock because I don't have the room for a lathe with outboard turning on the other side of the headstock.

I agree. I don't see how PM sells any 4224B lathes with the AB so close in price.



My AB was $8700 including shipping (which was only $275), 3 hp, tilt away, 3 additional tool rests, quill ruler, cone set for live center, and aux. power strip. As stated before, all of the prices except shipping is on the site. You can even call and get a quote on that. Mine is the standard bed.

[James Conrad]

Sorry to hear about your physical issues. I know you were pretty excited about Windsor chairs, hope you get some resolution and can get back to them. Good luck with your lathe decision!

[Bob Dupras]

My AB was $8700 including shipping (which was only $275), 3 hp, tilt away, 3 additional tool rests, quill ruler, cone set for live center, and aux. power strip. As stated before, all of the prices except shipping is on the site. You can even call and get a quote on that. Mine is the standard bed.
I called about a Liberty within the last month. Shipping was $300 plus, and they told me that the AB would be close to $500. That's where I got that number. I'm not saying that you can't get the price below $9000. I was just pointing out that $9,000+ isn't hard to get to with options.

Don't get me wrong. If I had that kind of disposable cash for a lathe, I'd get the AB in a heartbeat.

[Michael Mason]

I called about a Liberty within the last month. Shipping was $300 plus, and they told me that the AB would be close to $500. That's where I got that number.

Might be location, I don't know. I got mine in December 2014, I am in SC. I did get mine delivered to my work place with a loading dock, not sure if that made a difference.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I know I said it earlier, but get some time turning on all your alternatives. The cost of the lathe, while a factor, is secondary to whether or not you can work with what you wind up with. If you find later that chose wrong, it doesn't make much difference how much you saved.

[Mike Holbrook]

Certainly deciding on a lathe is not "rocket science", still try to keep in mind that I have yet to turn my first bowl. Until I can figure out what additional parts I need to turn bowls and or how I might actually turn a bowl on a given lathe I am at a loss as to what to order. With a back that can be a problem I am trying to focus on a set up that want cause me back pain. From what I have read it seems that working bowls at the end of a lathe is generally considered the most comfortable. The Robust Sweet 16 does not offer that option which might mean I should consider a Liberty instead. Without any experience I have no way to judge. I know many people buy extra parts to provide tool rests in positions to work bowls at the end of the lathe. I just do not know exactly what those parts are. although I have a little information from Oneway and Robust on the subject. I plan to talk to both companies again about turning bowls on specific machines and a list of additional parts which might help.

It has occurred to me that these methods for turning bowls might be more a matter of personal preference though? I have no idea at this point whether or not my back might bother me less working on a Liberty with special rest and tilt mechanism vs a stock standard size Sweet 16 vs a Oneway 1640 with a low bed extension, banjo...off the outboard side of the motor. I want make a decision for a month or two anyway so I have time to figure out answers.

[Michael Mason]

Mike, the outside of the bowl shouldn't hurt your back on any of the lathes. The back issues would generally be when coring the inside. This is where it helps to be standing at the end of a lathe. The sliding headstock on the Robust or the outboard bed on the Oneway should take care of that. You really should just turn on each and see which fits you better. As for what you need to turn a bowl, hold on to your pocketbook. The chucks, jaws, gouges, etc. add up quickly. But it is a ton of fun once you get going though!

[Jeff Ford]

I went through a similar exercise and chose the Oneway 1224. Will it be perfect? Probably not. If I want something larger later on, I felt the 1224 would have decent resale value.

One can starve in front of a sandwich machine with a pocket full of quarters.

[Bob Dupras]

Certainly deciding on a lathe is not "rocket science", still try to keep in mind that I have yet to turn my first bowl. Until I can figure out what additional parts I need to turn bowls and or how I might actually turn a bowl on a given lathe I am at a loss as to what to order. With a back that can be a problem I am trying to focus on a set up that want cause me back pain. From what I have read it seems that working bowls at the end of a lathe is generally considered the most comfortable. The Robust Sweet 16 does not offer that option which might mean I should consider a Liberty instead. Actually, the short version of the Sweet 16 does give you the ability to turn from the end of the lathe. I asked this specific question to Brent English at Robust. He said that's why the short version was created. If you haven't done so, I'd suggest you call them and tell them what you're wanting to do. They are very helpful.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

...try to keep in mind that I have yet to turn my first bowl.
Mike: You owe it to yourself to find a local club. Most have 'sawdust sessions' where you can get some hands-on experience. You may be putting the cart before the horse. It could also allow you to get some time in on different types of lathes so you could appreciate the differences of machines with different specs.

[Mike Holbrook]

I talked to Brent at Robust today and he cleared a few things up for me. He explained that in most cases the sliding head on a Liberty or American Beauty provides the ability to turn bowls on the end of the lathe, using a small portion of the far end of the lathe for banjo support/tool rest.. Only if the turner wants to turn large bowls where turning completely off the end provides additional space do additional tool rest accessories come in to play. He also explained, as Bob mentions above, that the short bed Sweet 16 was specifically designed at the suggestion of a well known turner so bowls could be turned from the end or both sides of the frame. The short bed has 16" between spindles, 30" using the gap as an extension. I think the Oneway 1224 or 1640 will require additional parts to turn bowls on the outboard side of their fixed heads, bringing their total cost closer to the Robust lathes. The short bed Robust Sweet 16 appears to be the most compact at 35.5" The gap feature on the Sweet 16 allows it to handle 32" bowls and 30" spindles on the one small compact machine.

[Dale Bonertz]

As Reed has mentioned I turn on a vicmarc. If you look at turners who do the type of turning I do and in volume they turn on fixed headstock lathes. Mike Mahoney, Glenn Lucas and I (feels weird to put my name next to those two since they are much better turners than I am) turn on vicmarc's (probably the least bells and whistles lathe but the biggest work horse of a lathe). David Lancaster (now retired I think) turned on another work horse the Oneway 2436, if I recall correctly. The stainless steel bed versus the cast iron bed is an old debate and both have there attributes and pitfalls. The cast iron can rust if you let it. I have turned thousands of wet bowls on mine and there is no rust. Wipe it down after each session and use WD40 and scotchbrite pads if necessary. There are two types of stainless steel processes from what I found in researching. One has less of a chance to rust and the other may rust. I am not sure which Robust uses. The one that can rust is more of a surface stainless process in which if it gets scratched it will oxidize or rust in the scratch. Stainless can also warp and deform easier than cast iron. Cast iron also absorbs vibration more. Now how much those differences make in our level of uses is what people debate. Personally I don't feel that any of that makes much of a difference, at all, and it is left to the manufacturer in what they feel is important as a sales feature of their product. Either stainless or iron you'll be wiping it down to get rid of the wet wood pitch and wet chunks stuck on the bed ways.

The fixed headstock versus sliding headstock is another ongoing topic, like the cast iron versus stainless topic, in which people are passionate about their choices. I personally feel for the way I use my machine that I need a fixed headstock. With the outboard bed attachments, like vicmarc and oneway offer, are in my opinion the way to go. I feel this makes my machine a much more reliable machine. I have worked with industrial, professional and hobby wood working equipment for over thirty years so my opinions are skewed by experience with heavier equipment. Anytime you have the most important part of a piece of equipment that moves you are introducing potential issues. I bold potential because that is key. I feel for the way that most turners turn that a sliding headstock probably won't become an issue, for me and my use I won't take that chance.

I think it is great that you are doing a lot of research into what will work best for you. Don't buy what seems popular on this site or any other for that matter since it is a very small sampling of the larger woodturning community. I see so many buy a lathe that they feel will work for them only to see them upgrade within three years. I feel like Wally when people say they are buying the last lathe they will ever need. When the next new feature designer lathe comes out or they find they want to turn something they didn't think, three years ago, they wanted to turn is when they will buy the next lathe.

In my opinion folks should consider what they think they will need and then buy the next lathe up to ensure they have enough machine for future endeavors (finances considered). So if you are looking at the Sweat 16 and that price range then get the stripped model of the AB or Oneway or Vicmarc and add accessories as needed, unless you can afford them now and you have a very good understanding on what you turn (again finances considered).

[Mike Holbrook]

Wise thoughts I think Dave. I almost bought a Oneway 1224 or 1236 a few months ago but put off the purchase because of physical, financial and time constraints. I was also thinking, like you mention above, that I might want to buy a notch or two above what I thought I needed. I use lots of tools on a regular basis. For me personally I like to buy top notch tools. I find that when I buy a limited tool I am not satisfied, often buy something else but eventually just end up buying the better tool. The qualifier for me has to do with my individual work style. For example, I have never liked table saws, I much prefer a Festool saw/multifunction table and my collection of hand operated saws and miter boxes. For me, the Festool saw & accessories just allow me to do more construction and woodworking chores in a safer more dust free environment. I may have as much invested in Festool gear as a good table saw would cost. The Festools help me in more of my work and make the entire process more enjoyable for me.

I think I am looking for a lathe that, like the festools, will allow me to get more done and enjoy the process more. My shop was originally designed to function more in a construction project capacity. I have plumbing tools and supplies, electrical tools and supplies and painting/finishing tools and supplies... housed in the same rooms as my woodworking tools... hand tools and power tools. I can't see me having the collection of lathes that some posters have. I am looking for a single very versatile lathe that can do a great many things well. At the same time I don't want a tool like the Shop Smith my dad bought many years ago that took up lots of space and in my experience took lots of time to set up to do a kinda half decent job attempting to replace multiple machines.

My shop space is broken up between three rooms, most of which I have plans for. I have walls with tool hanging panels, StoreWall, already attached. A small machine like the Oneway 1224 or a Sweet 16 short bed will be much easier to fit into available space. A machine like the Oneway 200 series or 1640, Robust American Beauty or even the Liberty, especially with additions to the outboard side of a fixed or sliding motor will be hard to work into available space. At this point in time the Sweet 16 short bed sounds like it would fit my needs the best, if I can justify the expense.

[Reed Gray]

Perhaps another difference/advantage to the sliding headstock vs fixed headstock is that the sliding headstock can be put in a corner, which is where mine has always been.

robo hippy

[Jack Mincey]

Mike, Will you be able to turn 36" legs on a short bed lathe? By the time you put a spindle between centers it takes almost all the bed on my 1640 to turn a 36" spindle.
Jack

[Geoff Whaling]

Mike, Dale has some pretty good advice. Unfortunately the conversion from $US to $AUD means that we rarely see north American made lathes here, I don’t know of any Robusts or Oneway’s here. So my experience may seem parochial when it is not. The fact is we only really have the Rikon 70-500 (Woodfast M910) & mini’s, the Nova DVR’s, Jets, Laguna & Australian manufactured Vicmarc & Stubby lathes in common in both market places plus some generic brands.

While most modern lathes in the class you are looking at are pretty good all rounders they still have features and origins as either a face plate or spindle lathe. Some will perform far better in one aspect or the other. If you consider most of your turning is spindle then a fixed head stock lathe is pretty much a fundamental "must have" feature, one less range of potential hazards, alignment and wear issues. Rotating & sliding head stocks offer significant benefits for face plate turners. Vicmarc's proven VL175 and new VL240 are pretty good rotating head stock lathes and have a loyal following among bowl turners here in Oz.

Not long back, I went through what you are going through now, I desired a new lathe. I already owned a Nova Mercury mini, & long bed 1992 Australian manufactured Woodfast M908 (16" x 32" approx) retrofitted with the M910 EVS motor (Rikon 70-500) equivalent to a Vicmarc VL200. The M908 also has the outboard turning attachments.

Both lathes are great for their purpose, though the Mercury is ageing fast. The M908 is still a fantastic lathe but had one minor niggle with a bit of slop in the ways making precision boring a chore. That one issue really annoyed me with fine spindle work I do, but is unimportant for bowl or larger spindle turning.

After lots of research and some hard critical evaluation I purchased what was best for me, a Vicmarc VL150 with extension bed (for latter), with a much smaller capacity than my main lathe. Too small for big work but also a bit to big to be considered a portable mini. How often do I turn a 12” bowl? How often do I attend collaboration style events? Not enough to really influence my decision and bias towards small spindle turning.

The VL150 was well over twice the price of its nearest competitor’s lathe that best suited my turning style. The competitor also ran a very distant second when I seriously considered quality & specifications. Other serious contenders included the Woodfast 305 (Rikon), Nova Comet, Stubby 750, VL240, another Woodfast M910 & Nova DVR. The DVR had some serious niggles that I could not live with but was really excluded due to unknown but potential EMI issues with proximity of the motor to my defibrillator. Fortunately through wood turning acquaintances I have had reliable advice & experience plus been able to test drive most of them. One day I might get on Ken Wraights Stubby lathe. (sigh!)

Price was a serious consideration but I’m well prepared for retirement, still under 60 & I’ve worked long & hard enough to now enjoy some of the finer things in life within limits. I doubt some of the competitors lathes will be running in 10 years time whereas I know the Vicmarc and Stubby will be still running trouble free in 30 years time.

My point, it is great to listen to others experience but in the end you have to live within your means, and with the lathes idiosyncrasies. I would strongly recommend taking the time to locate a turner/s locally who own the lathe/s you short list and see if they will share their experience and perhaps a test drive. Well worth the effort when you are spending $5k or more.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for your thoughts Reed,Jack & Geoff.
I am mostly interested in chair parts. The longest spindle on the Continuous Arm Windsor I made is a little over 23". I make all the longer spindles with drawknives & spokeshaves. Sometimes the spindles under the arms of Windsors or Rusitc Windsors are turned but the longest I have made is about 13". My main interest in turning spindles is for chair legs and rungs. The longest legs I have made so far are 19-20". Even adding a few extra inches for stock before it is cut down I can't imagine needing the ability to turn more than 24" for chairs. I'm sure guys turn longer legs for tables. Measuring table legs at my house the longest are around 30". I think if I were to make a table and want legs I would probably go with something square or octagonal, cutting tapered blanks on the band saw and working them with hand planes.

At least at this time I am having a hard time imagining needing to turn spindles longer than 24". The Oneway 1224 might be a little small with it's 24" spindle capacity but I think the 30" of space on a short Robust Sweet 16 would work fine for me. Certainly the Sweet 16's ability to turn a 32" bowl or platter vs the Oneway's 12.5" limitation might prove an advantage. The Sweet 16 can also be bought with a 1.5 or 2hp motor vs the 1hp on the Oneway. I like the Oneway 1640 but adding an outboard extension to the longer frame of this machine winds up making a long lathe to fit into my shop and maneuver around. I am still calculating the dimensions & cost of a 1640 with outboard bowl turning capability. To get a lathe that large into my shop would require swapping around a couple work areas and it still might not fit well. I am still calculating on how to work that machine into a large enough space though. The fact that a Oneway 1640, with outboard tool rest, allows one to do both spindles and bowls without having to make changes to the frame of the machine is an attractive feature.

I am looking for a lathe that, like my Festools, will allow me to get more done and enjoy the process more. My shop was originally designed to function more in a construction project capacity. I have plumbing tools and supplies, electrical tools and supplies, framing tools and supplies, painting/finishing tools and supplies... housed in the same rooms as my woodworking tools... hand tools and power tools. I can't see me having the collection of lathes that some posters have as my shop is designed to pursue a diverse range of projects making space a premium concern. I am looking for a single very versatile lathe that can do a great many things well. At the same time I don't want a tool like the Shopsmith my dad bought many years ago that took up lots of space and in my experience took lots of time to set up to do a kinda half decent job attempting to replace multiple machines.

At the moment the short Sweet 16 is sounding great if I decide to spring for the higher price. The Sweet 16 is a foot shorter than a Oneway 1224 and weighs close to twice as much. With the cut away repositioned, a short Sweet 16 can handle longer spindles than a Oneway 1224 and bowls or platters that are larger than even a Oneway 1640 can handle with an outboard tool rest. I think it might provide the ease of use of the small Oneway machine in a more versatile machine. Even with the gap installed as a bed extension the Sweet 16 is 49.5" long vs 60" for a Oneway 1640, without outboard tool rest, and it is still not much longer than the 47" Oneway 1224.

I talked to Brent and Oneway about seeing/getting hands on with lathes. Now that I am figuring out specific models they may be able to help me better. I am also planing to talk to Woodworkers Emporium about Vicmark lathes. I need to talk to Chris I think. Unfortunately Chris has proven to be a hard man to catch.