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John Conklin
05-24-2015, 9:48 AM
I realize this is simplistic compared to what you folks make here, but I'm happy with it.

My buddy at work introduced me to cigar box guitars and I offered to help him make one since I have all the WWing tools. They are really interesting when you start researching them. Many famous guitarist started out by making their own homemade instrument. I was really happy and pleased with how good it sounds.

I just wish that I could play, lol. Maybe someday!

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Ted Calver
05-24-2015, 11:19 AM
It looks pretty darn good, John. I've heard they are addictive. Gonna make another? :)

John Conklin
05-24-2015, 1:16 PM
I'm sure I will Ted. It's one of those things that the more you look, the more interesting things you find that you want to try. I've already amassed a collection of about 20 cigar boxes and am researching how to make them electric... and make an amp... and... lol

Julie Moriarty
05-24-2015, 2:49 PM
Very cool, John! After I got into making guitars, I read about the cigar box guitar and was tempted to give it a try. I've heard the sound is pretty good. And you confirmed that. Thanks for sharing! :)

george wilson
05-24-2015, 5:27 PM
Does it have any bass? Probably has more of a banjo or Japanese samisen(sp?) sort of tone. It does not have the internal volume of air that is needed to generate much bass. Any box will produce some degree of sound,but if you aren't a player,it is probably difficult for you to make a valid assessment of the tone quality.

You can play it for fun anyway,of course.

That heavy steel bolt you used for the bridge is about the worst possible thing to use there. Weight is a real killer of tone on acoustic guitars. Heavy metal bridges are good for electric guitars. They increase sustain,and body resonance is not a factor. You should keep the bridge as light as possible. Look at ordinary acoustic guitars. They have a wooden bridge with a bone saddle. Your guitar will sound a lot better if you make another bridge based upon what other acoustic guitars use. PLEASE,get rid of that bolt!!!:)

This message is not meant to sound sarcastic. Just factual info.

Ted Calver
05-24-2015, 5:55 PM
I didn't notice it before, but did you consider adding a piezoelectric pick up and jack when you built this one? They really bring the tone alive and cost very little....would also be an easy retrofit. CB Gitty has lots of parts plus thousands of pictures and helpful instructions. No affiliation, but enjoy cruising the builds there. I just ordered the makings of several cigar box guitars (CBG's) and a kit to build a small amp. I'm hooked :)

Alan Caro
05-24-2015, 8:31 PM
John Conklin,

That's a lot of fun and too beautifully made.

Having spent a lot of time the last 45 years with early keyboard instruments, old and new, I had a sense of folk instruments that were adapted from whatever materials were at hand. "Cigar box banjo" was a familiar term that I applied to really bad reproductions of Italian-style harpsichords.. Since all instruments originally must have derived from found objects- some stick, a folded reed, hollow log or whatever, there's an odd aesthetic I find powerful- the ingenuity of the adaptation with minimal modification.

I watched the UK car show "Top Gear" for years and on one program, the guest that takes a lap around the track was performer, Seasick Steve, who had made a guitar with a car theme- made from a pair of Morris Minor hubcaps. The bridge and nut were made from bolts and the quick slide guitar riff had that great 20's bluezy quality.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+hubcap+guitar

After all those years with very refined harpsichords and organs, it was immediately fascinating and I immediately wanted to make one. I even have some Morris Minor hubcaps- and Packard, Mercedes, and Jaguar. I haven't done it yet, but it won't be long and I'll make a Baroque organ out of a 1951 Studebaker Commander.

Alan Caro

John Conklin
05-24-2015, 8:37 PM
George, we're definitely talking different types of guitars here. I think you're more orchestra pit and concert halls and I'm more juke joints and gin mills. I've found CBG's more a homage to the roots of blues and rock and the ingenuity of those of wanted to play but didn't have the means to buy an instrument. I think it's more important to honor those beginnings as opposed to perfect sound. I know about proper bridges and saddles and may make them on a future build, but for now it's fun getting the feel for them and using the more unique nick-knacks. Thanks for your input, I am a rank novice and will save away all the scraps of knowledge and ideas I can get.

Ted, we decided to keep the first one strictly acoustic, figuring we'd learn in steps. I may make one more acoustic and then go for the power! I've been browsing CB Gitty a lot too, learning and planning, but trying not to get too carried away. :) I also joined a CBG group on Facebook that has a ton of talented builders and players to get info from.

george wilson
05-25-2015, 7:17 AM
John,a heavy bridge saddle takes way too much momentum to get started vibrating. That is why a light weight bridge is highly advantageous. Basic science from Newton. It makes a remarkable difference on banjos. Over the many years I have been a musical instrument maker,I have had many Gibson Mastertone banjos brought to me. The owners thought they had lost their tone. The main problem I found,which instantly restored the tone of these instruments was to get rid of rosewood,and other "Owner made" fancy bridges. They were just a tad too heavy. Another tone killer is 3 legged bridges. 2 legged banjo bridges are by far the best sounding.

So,store these bits away for future use. They are valuable tips,and also apply to guitars with tailpieces,basically similar to yours. Use BONE,not any kind of plastic for your saddle. Bone is even better than ivory since it is harder-but still light weight. You can buy saddle blanks from Stewart MacDonald.

Of course you cannot make perfect sounding guitars out of cigar boxes. But,you can significantly improve on what you have by lightening the bridges.

John Conklin
05-25-2015, 10:08 AM
Alan, Seasick Steve and Samantha Fish have been a part of my introduction to CBG's. I find it amazing with all the information on the internet how you can go from one subject to another. Go in looking for info on building, find other instruments whether related directly or not, find artists that play those instruments... on and on. I remember being limited by books you could find at the library, magazines on the pastime or people in your area that would share info.

So far I've limited my part collecting to cigar boxes and metal tins, but I'll be on the lookout for hubcaps and dishes for resonators. Looking forward to seeing what you build.

Don Bunce
05-25-2015, 1:46 PM
Here's an example with electronic effects added.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-AuJgdZHTY

Alan Caro
05-25-2015, 6:35 PM
John Conklin,

The wide amount of information thrown into the ether is amazing e.g. first hearing of Seasick Steve and modern found objects instruments on a British car show. YouTube is astounding in the range of descriptions, demonstrations, and how to's for instrument building,a nd as you say, it's possible to peek into worlds that would never be stumbled upon otherwise. I've had along interest in clavichords and have always been very traditionally oriented with historic keyboards:

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> but, I stumbled over Bill Napier who'd made a couple of electric clavichords and while the timbre suffers from being built on some 2" thick plank- no acoustic enhancement, the processed sounds and innovative techniques- from electric and slide guitar to 1/4 tone sitar make it refreshingly fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfjotHLozt4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpstgCZgicQ

And so it goes. The history of musical instruments has been one of consistent innovation and adaptation- look at the progress of the piano from 1790 to 1830- and sometimes it's intriguing to see someone break the rules and hear something new.

Alan Caro

Ron Lindner
05-31-2015, 8:23 PM
George I also play around with CGB but being a saw dust maker I have made my own boxes. The last one I made I used bone nut and bridge. It sounds better than my previous ones. I have been told that the nut being bone was more important than the bridge. Can you expound further on the subject?

Ron

george wilson
06-01-2015, 10:10 AM
I used to use ivory for bridge saddles. But,bone is harder than ivory and sounds better. The bridge saddle makes a remarkable difference in tone. Early on,I made a saddle out of celluloid from an old drafting triangle. When I eventually got around to changing to a bone saddle,the guitar made a remarkable improvement in tonality. That taught me a lesson. Just that little connection between the string and the vibrating body is that important.

As for bridges,I try keeping them as light as possible. The wood of preference would be Brazilian rosewood rather than ebony,which is heavier,though some good makes,like Martin use ebony. Now,Brazilian is protected,but it still sounds better than East Indian rosewood. I think it is a little lighter in weight. I have seen the craziest bridges even on high quality guitars. I saw a Gibson J 200 that had the usual rather massive "mustache bridge", but instead of the usual bone saddle,there was a metal "tunematic" Gibson bridge inlet into the wood bridge! I am very sure it was factory,too. That was about the worst thing they could have done to that guitar. Strings have only a certain and weak amount of energy. If they have to start all that wood and metal vibrating before the guitar's body gets involved,a lot of energy is lost,and with it volume and tonality.

Ron Lindner
06-01-2015, 7:10 PM
George, Thanks for the info. I think I have been making my bridges heavier than needed. For CBG I have been using maple and desert mesquite. One of these days I have to try and build a real acoustic guitar, but in the mean time I am learning things. And like John I am still learning to play the things.314841

george wilson
06-01-2015, 9:02 PM
Yes,you could make that bridge a lot narrower in the direction of the strings. It does not have to be large,since it does not hold against the string tension.