Cloud Software...........

[William A. Foster]

As I have been doing my research on laser engraving I am finding out a lot about software and what I will be needing.
One thing I have found is that I am DEFINITELY going to be looking for the older versions.
I stay as far away as possible from cloud anything......I Do NOT like the concept at all.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't mean this to sound harsh, because it's not meant that way, but do you understand what that even means? The cloud is a place to store data. No software we use runs off the cloud. It can store data to the cloud if you so desire. If you don't desire, then it doesn't save it there. I suspect what you're talking about isn't the cloud part of it, but rather than subscription model that software companies are using.

Personally, I fought it tooth and nail. I complained and complained about how I'd never ever go to a subscription model. Then they had a deal, the entire Adobe Creative Suite for $29.95 a month for 6 months, with it ending up at $49.95 a month from that point on. I figured I'd try it.

Now? I love it. I really, really do. I get updates and bug fixes so much faster than before, and the amount of software I have at my disposal is unbelievable. I use it to design for our clients, I use it to make video clips, I use it to build our website, etc. All for $50 a month.

The big argument is typically "What if they raise the price to $100 a month?". Well, they haven't, so I'll worry about that when it happens. Or, "Yeah, but if I stop the subscription, then I can't use the software any more and I can run my business". Well, if your business can't afford $50 a month to have tools to do the job for your clients, then your business is in deep trouble anyway.

I'm REALLY happy with it. You download the software, full versions, and install the software directly to your computer. It also does NOT have to be connected to the internet to use it. It uses the internet connection to verify your subscription every so often, but that's all it's using it for.

[William A. Foster]

I am very happy you like the cloud....... to each their own..
I on the other hand I DO NOT like cloud computing, cloud storage, cloud anything. I do not trust it.
I will maintain my systems and software in a fog free environment.

My important systems are not internet dependent. nor will they ever be. If that means I have to use older software, then so be it.
The work I do does not require the latest bells and whistles.
I do not pay bills over the internet, My bank is only a mile away.
Am I paranoid? No.... I just prefer a safer less complicated life.

Have a great weekend and Memorial day.

[Keith Winter]

Not sure what good your statement does on the forum. If you want to use older software more power to you. Did you have a question? Most of the newer software is pay per month, if that's what you are referring to as cloud?

[Bert Kemp]

William are you referring to the glowforge software or the cloud based cad software like adobe and such. I'm not totally sure but I think their quite different. One is going to try and run the laser from software based on the internet, which like I said the way people talk here might not work to well do to bad connection speeds and the like, the other is a subscription based software which is stored on your computer and used to do the design work for the laser but you pay a fee for its use and you get updated and fixed bugs like forever as long as you pay the fee. If I have this totally wrong some one help me please.

[William A. Foster]

Bert, I am referring to the cloud based cad and adobe software with their monthly fees.

For a hobbyist that want's to make a few bucks and a small business this pay per month stuff is just not practical or economically feasible..... Not gonna pay 40 or 50 bucks a month for software that I may only use a small portion of..... Just looked and I see adobe has a 9.95 per month photo only version.... not payin 10 bucks a month either, I just don't like the cloud and monthly dues...... Yes I am so tight I squeak when I walk.... Or maybe that's just old age and bad knees....:eek:

What I need is some good old fashioned personal on site software that does the job I need done.

Clean rastor and vector files, I don't need a bunch of special effects.... The image doesn't translate to a high tech wood burner very well.

For those of you that make this sort of stuff a business that they are making a living off of I understand where you are coming from with this.... Doesn't mean I agree but we don't have to... It's your business and I make my living in other areas ... This is just a hobby that I hope to make a small business that will pay for itself and make a couple of bucks to boot.

I get tired of being nickel and dimed every time I turn around .... The gov is ding a fine job of that.

[Clark Pace]

I like having the package in my hands. Cloud software which does exist in the CNC world has it's place, but if the Internet goes down, then you can you run your machine? Just a question? But on the plus side updates are done on the server so you will not have to deal with that, and also if you re-format your machine or it crashes then you still have the software and data.





Bert, I am referring to the cloud based cad and adobe software with their monthly fees.

For a hobbyist that want's to make a few bucks and a small business this pay per month stuff is just not practical or economically feasible..... Not gonna pay 40 or 50 bucks a month for software that I may only use a small portion of..... Just looked and I see adobe has a 9.95 per month photo only version.... not payin 10 bucks a month either, I just don't like the cloud and monthly dues...... Yes I am so tight I squeak when I walk.... Or maybe that's just old age and bad knees....:eek:

What I need is some good old fashioned personal on site software that does the job I need done.

Clean rastor and vector files, I don't need a bunch of special effects.... The image doesn't translate to a high tech wood burner very well.

For those of you that make this sort of stuff a business that they are making a living off of I understand where you are coming from with this.... Doesn't mean I agree but we don't have to... It's your business and I make my living in other areas ... This is just a hobby that I hope to make a small business that will pay for itself and make a couple of bucks to boot.

I get tired of being nickel and dimed every time I turn around .... The gov is ding a fine job of that.

[Jason Hilton]

I read this whole thread and in my head I pictured crotchety old people screaming "When I was your age...!!"

Cloud software is cheaper and more cost effective for end-users while simultaneously cheaper and more profitable for software developers. Adobe maintains a subscription for client installed applications. You can still operate offline. The sky is not falling. And yes, owning adobe products via the subscription is way cheaper for you, enjoy your savings.

Oh, soon cars will all be electric too. FYI.

[William A. Foster]

I read this whole thread and in my head I pictured crotchety old people screaming "When I was your age...!!"

Cloud software is cheaper and more cost effective for end-users while simultaneously cheaper and more profitable for software developers. Adobe maintains a subscription for client installed applications. You can still operate offline. The sky is not falling. And yes, owning adobe products via the subscription is way cheaper for you, enjoy your savings.

Oh, soon cars will all be electric too. FYI.

:D Crotchety and old...Yup.... Screaming, Nope...:)

It's not good to allow yourself to be so dependent on things that are so far out of your control..... And things that have access to areas of your life they should not have.
As to your math on renting vs owning...... Not sure how you figure that..:confused:
Always have a backup plan.
And.... since I'm at it..... Electric cars?.... Not in my garage..............

[Scott Shepherd]

William, the problem (one of them) is that most people on this forum are using modern software. If you go some other route, to "save yourself some money", then you'll isolate a lot of people's ability to help you when you need help (and you will need help). That's your choice.

CorelDraw X7 Full version is $499.00 and you own it.
Adobe Illustrator CS6 is $599 and you own it.

If you don't like spending money, I'm guessing Inkscape for free would be your best route.

If you buy the right lasers, then they don't care what you use. You can engrave from Microsoft Excel or Word if you want. You could even engrave from Notepad if you wanted to.

Good luck!

[Lee DeRaud]

It's not good to allow yourself to be so dependent on things that are so far out of your control..... And things that have access to areas of your life they should not have.
As to your math on renting vs owning...... Not sure how you figure that..:confused:For some arbitrarily low value of "dependent". If you really need that level of control over your digital life, your only real option is Linux and open-source software...I guess everybody needs a hobby, but that's a bit too much hassle even for this retired software engineer.
I'm still using Corel X4 simply because there aren't any features in the newer versions that I need. OTOH, I have the $10/month subscription-based Adobe PSCC: it will take several years at that price to catch up with the purchase price of the previous PS versions.

[Clark Pace]

Hi,

I'm not talking about adobe? I'm talking about online laser cutting software? There are few companies that are starting to do that I believe, and 3d printers etc... That would be my biggest concern? Newer ways are not always better? And sometimes they are a lot better.

[Bill George]

Well I have a 3D printer on the way and trying to learn 3D as I know regular CAD and own AutoCAD Lt 2008. So I found a web based very simple 3D Cad program, TinkerCAD and all my files are stored in the "cloud" or someplace anyway. It may be all I need or I may need something with more features, but for now its the cloud for me!
Forgot to add, its free for now and IF I need added features its $9.95 a month, cheaper by the year.

[Roy Nielsen]

William,

As a hobbyist I can certainly understand your frustration with software subscriptions regardless of the math. I've been using CorelDraw 12 (found a legit copy on eBay, think it was well under $150) for the past 2+ years, but am extremely interested in an Adobe Illustrator plugin that would allow me to expand what I can do into new areas of interest and perhaps bring in enough money to pay back the cost of Illustrator & the plugin. I'm still trying to decide between buying Illustrator CS6 outright or a legitimate older 'suite' version.

Roy

[Joe Walmer]

I think you can pretty much do everything you need to do on a laser design wise with photoshop cs 1 or 2. I would buy a copy of those you are done. Corel Draw is much easier to use than illustrator and has tons of support for laser engraving and it really has a steep learning curve if you are jumping right in.

For me I was going to finally buy Dreamweaver to design websites and that is how I was introduced to the whole adobe cloud deal. I was really mad and didn't but it of course. I just really really didnt like the idea of it all.

[William Adams]

Adobe Illustrator CS6 is $599 and you own it.

Problem is, it doesn’t seem to be available new. A reseller on Amazon lists it at $1,299.00 (there is a copy of a Flash CS6 at list price from Amazon though — some people like to draw in it)

I’d love to be wrong — we could use another seat at work for an upcoming project.

There are a couple of other vector drawing programs though, for the Mac at least:

- Affinity Designer — https://affinity.serif.com/
- Sketch 3 — bohemiancoding.com

[Bert Kemp]

Adobe Photoshop CS2 free download its old but it workshttp://www.techspot.com/downloads/3689-adobe-photoshop-cs2.html

[Michele Welch]

Wow, I'm just trying to figure out why we have 2 pages to even debate this. To each their own and go on to something that will benefit everyone, like actual laser questions and answers. Just my opinion, but dang people.

[Bert Kemp]

DEEP BREATH :rolleyes:


Wow, I'm just trying to figure out why we have 2 pages to even debate this. To each their own and go on to something that will benefit everyone, like actual laser questions and answers. Just my opinion, but dang people.

[Jason Hilton]

Why would you pay $599 for obsolete software that may not be supported on new hardware? Eventually you hit a hardware wall. Computer dies and suddenly you have to buy a windows 10 machine that won't run 10 year old software. Or you pay 20$ a month for an always up-to-date app that will still run if your internet goes out.

There's "to each their own" and then there's "your way is kinda dumb, self limiting, and more expensive."

[Julian Ashcroft]

Being a cheapskate, I use Inkscape and and an old version of paint shop pro. I also use Silhouette Studio which came with my vinyl cutter. It works great for designing images, problem is you can't save as as svg or dxf, so I have to screen print and then paste into Inkscape. This actually works better than it sounds.

I use the cloud to store all my work (Dropbox) which means I have access to work on my projects either in my works office, home office or workshop where the laser is.

[Scott Shepherd]

Problem is, it doesn’t seem to be available new. A reseller on Amazon lists it at $1,299.00 (there is a copy of a Flash CS6 at list price from Amazon though — some people like to draw in it)

I’d love to be wrong — we could use another seat at work for an upcoming project.

There are a couple of other vector drawing programs though, for the Mac at least:

- Affinity Designer — https://affinity.serif.com/
- Sketch 3 — bohemiancoding.com

Right on Adobe's own site.....

http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_creativesu ite6.html?promoid=KFPPW

Click the "Buy" button next to Illustrator, then it'll ask if you want CS6 or the cloud. Pick CS6 and it'll put it in your cart for checkout.

[William Adams]

Thanks. I’ll let my boss know. Odd that when he checked w/ CDW they claimed it was unavailable. Sad that someone is so gouging on Amazon, but that’s typical.

[Doug Griffith]

Why would you pay $599 for obsolete software that may not be supported on new hardware? Eventually you hit a hardware wall. Computer dies and suddenly you have to buy a windows 10 machine that won't run 10 year old software. Or you pay 20$ a month for an always up-to-date app that will still run if your internet goes out.

There's "to each their own" and then there's "your way is kinda dumb, self limiting, and more expensive."

Not dumb at all. Some of us use software to make a living. We learn a version like the back of our hand and don't have the time or need to learn new features when what we have gets the job done. The last thing I want is software that updates without my control. As far as system compatibility goes, there is always a way to get older hardware to run it. I work with some CNCs that run on OS/2, DOS, and Win NT. A few of the proprietary boards require ISA slots. I can still purchase brand new computers that meet my needs. I learn new software in my free time and implement into my workflow when the time is right.

[William A. Foster]

Why would you pay $599 for obsolete software that may not be supported on new hardware? Eventually you hit a hardware wall. Computer dies and suddenly you have to buy a windows 10 machine that won't run 10 year old software. Or you pay 20$ a month for an always up-to-date app that will still run if your internet goes out.

There's "to each their own" and then there's "your way is kinda dumb, self limiting, and more expensive."

You can pick up CorelDraw 5 for under 200 bucks.... and if version 2 works for ya you can get that one free.

[Roy Nielsen]

Why would you pay $599 for obsolete software that may not be supported on new hardware? Eventually you hit a hardware wall. Computer dies and suddenly you have to buy a windows 10 machine that won't run 10 year old software. Or you pay 20$ a month for an always up-to-date app that will still run if your internet goes out.

There's "to each their own" and then there's "your way is kinda dumb, self limiting, and more expensive."

Jason, I find your blindly attacking someone's intellect offensive considering the amount of hard work I've put in to achieve personal, educational, and professional successes in my life and career. Perhaps you may wish to consider the following.

First, let's assess your technology reason. Most modern applications run on top of an operating system's kernel which allows little or no direct communication with the underlying hardware; this means that a well written program will not break due to a new piece of hardware. I think you're trying to imply that new hardware will eventually break the old OS, which is a somewhat valid point due to drivers eventually not being readily available for future hardware. OS makers work very hard to limit breaking of old apps on new OSes. Look at Apple's transition from PowerPC to Intel chips. Apple developed a translation layer that remained for several Mac OSX versions that allowed PPC based apps to continue to run on the Intel processors. Microsoft has done similar to support 16-bit apps on 32-bit OSes, and 32-bit on 64-bit OSes. Do you know that it is even still possible to run some Windows 3.1 apps on Windows 7; possible, although not necessarily easy for everyone.

In the very unlikely event that an old app that runs under Win 7 doesn't under Win 10 (I've tested a few apps that I use under an early public beta of 10, zero problems thus far), a person could run a Win 7 virtual machine on the new hardware and the old app within the virtual machine. A few years ago, for no particular reason, I stood up a Windows 3.1 VM on modern hardware (multi-core CPU, several GBs RAM, etc.), the hardest thing was trying to remember how to get around. Another option would be to run it on Linux under Wine (sounds like Illustrator CS6 runs fairly well and Wine gets better with age). If CPU technology drastically changes, I'd wager that hardware emulators will still exist that would allow running ancient technology.

Second, let's look at your cost argument: After 30 months, assuming Adobe doesn't change the subscription price, a $599 one-time cost becomes less expensive ($20/month x 30 months = $600). Additionally, there may be residual value from that $599 when you no longer need it versus $0 from a subscription plan.

Third, you assume Adobe will continue to provide a locally installable app. Many major app developers are moving the actual computing to the cloud and may not have locally installable versions now or for much longer; look at several of Autodesk's apps. Do you possess inside information to guarantee that Adobe will forever and ever have a locally installable version? While I, personally, appreciate and cloud computing for many purposes, not everyone has access to/needs/wants/can afford quality broadband Internet or may want to trust cloud computing. What would you recommend to people in these aforementioned situations should Adobe go to pure cloud based computing, buy an old version?

That leaves up to date as your only valid argument. Not everyone needs all the latest and greatest features. By your logic, you must be using MS Office 365; which brand new features in it do you require that are not in Office 2013, 2010, 2007, or XP? IT security concerns are also valid, at some future point when Adobe no longer provides maintenance support for the particular version of the app, it would be very wise to either upgrade it or move the hosting OS offline. But, not everyone, especially hobbyists, needs the latest and greatest product. I have a hammer that is over 40 years old and it still drives and pulls nails, even modern nails at that, as well as it did the day my father bought it for me!

I'll even through in another argument for you. A few years ago Adobe shut down the CS2 licensing servers which apparently has made performing fresh legitimate installs difficult. I would expect the same to occur for newer versions.

I'm glad that the subscription model works well for you. I, personally, am still evaluating what will work best for me for Illustrator, it may well be the subscription model, although I may choose an older version or I may determine that I don't need it at all. Due to my professional successes, any of the cost options is not an issue for me at this time, although I don't typically part with my money without considering how all aspects affect my current and foreseeable future situation. Other people's budgets and situations may dictate one path versus another. If I do outright purchase an older version, then I will use business continuity planning methods (even though I'm presently a hobbyist) to limit my risk of not being able to run that version in a secure manner at a future time.

Someone else asked about buying CS6 apps/suites new, it is still available for purchase on Adobe's site just somewhat hidden; Google "Creative Suite 6 products" and it will probably be the first link that takes you directly to the page.

[Bill George]

Maybe Web or Cloud based works for those with fast dependable internet but my trial run of TinkerCAD was a big flop. If I had any more crashes I could sign up for a demolition derby.

I now have downloaded to my computer Autodesk 123D and it would like me to Save to the Cloud sorry, no way. It would be a great problem if the Program fonts were big enough to read.

RhinoCAD has easy to read and see Menus, looks like something to learn 3D on and buy.

[Jason Hilton]

Roy,

I'm not impinging anyones intellect. As for the rest of your points, they are definitely valid, but eventually applications stop working on old machines, no matter what. Additionally, starting out, is it smarter to spend 20$ for 30 months or 599$ up front (assuming you only ever need one app - Said no one ever)? Eventually you'll find you need photoshop as well, and then is it to be another $599 or another 20$ a month? Or do you say no to the job? How many do you say no to? Old software comes with risk, so what is that risk worth? To use your own example, if you've paid $599 to use an old version that requires cloud licensing and then those cloud servers go down, you're tanked. Work stops. How much money are you willing to lose to spend more money to alleviate your fears of the big scary "cloud"? And sure, after 30 months you'll have spend the same as a full version, but by then maybe there's a useful feature you want and you need to upgrade. So then you're paying the 399$ upgrade for another stand-alone version that you would have gotten for free with the subscription. When Adobe first announced the creative cloud there were countless cost analysis against purchasing and maintaining current software under both models, and subscriptions came in cheaper in every case.

You might agree with Doug above that you learn a single version and don't have time to learn something new, but I would counter that a new and improved tool saves you time in the long run. As an example, illustrator recently added the ability to set corner rounding on any shape. That used to require a 3 step process by running a filter, expanding the shape, and ungrouping. If you later wanted to adjust it you had to go back and start again. That simple feature upgrade saves me hours a week some weeks. I also use (and design and built) software for a living. Being willing and able to adapt and take advantage of new features is essential to delivering work efficiently.

With regards to adobe not allowing offline in the future, that's a long way off if if at all, and not a good reason to spend more money for obsolete software now because 10 years from now Adobe "might" go full cloud-based. It's like saying you might have a car accident in the future and so deciding to never drive.

[William Adams]

One problem for me w/ cloud software is it feels like extortion — “That’s a mighty nice graphic design suite you have there, all nice and paid up and activated. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it, a real shame.”

I also find it offensive that rather than compete w/ other companies on their merits, they've bought up a bunch of programs which I used to use and depend upon and have buried them, most notably Macromedia Freehand (just over a decade after the FTC told them that they had to way for 10 years before buying up any competitors). Really miss Touchtype.app, Ares Fontminder and Chameleon, &c. as well.

It’s also pretty obvious that they consciously deferred a number of program features until after they’d moved to the cloud pricing model.

It’s one thing having a monthly bill w/ a company which is local, and which has a local physical presence, thus enforcing standing at the same bar as any local attorney — trying to bring action against a company which is far distant, and whose user agreement specifies standing in some distant courthouse is a much higher bar to deal with.

I’m sure Adobe will keep the program operational enough that people continue to allow the monthly billing since it allows them a reasonable profit, but at some point, other competitors will catch up, and there will be a strategic advantage in not having that monthly (or yearly — if you’re doing this as a business you should probably consider annual payment since it’s less subject to disruption, there have been some real horror stories about applications being deactivated when people were on a tight deadline) bill.

[Jason Hilton]

What you're describing is free-market economics. Companies buy competitors all the time. Adobe acquired Macromedia and continued much of their product line (dreamweaver replaced adobe's web development offering, Flash continued for 10 years) and integrated their best features into their existing products. They're in it to make money.

With regards to the conspiracy theory of deferring product features until the cloud release, well, even if they did it wouldn't matter. If they had done a version release instead you'd still have to pay for it, that's the business model. Add features = make more money on upgrades. Standard practice. Being cloud based means you get those features a lot cheaper.




One problem for me w/ cloud software is it feels like extortion — “That’s a mighty nice graphic design suite you have there, all nice and paid up and activated. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it, a real shame.”

I also find it offensive that rather than compete w/ other companies on their merits, they've bought up a bunch of programs which I used to use and depend upon and have buried them, most notably Macromedia Freehand (just over a decade after the FTC told them that they had to way for 10 years before buying up any competitors). Really miss Touchtype.app, Ares Fontminder and Chameleon, &c. as well.

It’s also pretty obvious that they consciously deferred a number of program features until after they’d moved to the cloud pricing model.

It’s one thing having a monthly bill w/ a company which is local, and which has a local physical presence, thus enforcing standing at the same bar as any local attorney — trying to bring action against a company which is far distant, and whose user agreement specifies standing in some distant courthouse is a much higher bar to deal with.

I’m sure Adobe will keep the program operational enough that people continue to allow the monthly billing since it allows them a reasonable profit, but at some point, other competitors will catch up, and there will be a strategic advantage in not having that monthly (or yearly — if you’re doing this as a business you should probably consider annual payment since it’s less subject to disruption, there have been some real horror stories about applications being deactivated when people were on a tight deadline) bill.

[Clark Pace]

I have good things about tinker cad. One problem. It's being discontinued. So I would not get too attached.


Well I have a 3D printer on the way and trying to learn 3D as I know regular CAD and own AutoCAD Lt 2008. So I found a web based very simple 3D Cad program, TinkerCAD and all my files are stored in the "cloud" or someplace anyway. It may be all I need or I may need something with more features, but for now its the cloud for me!
Forgot to add, its free for now and IF I need added features its $9.95 a month, cheaper by the year.

[Clark Pace]

Good luck on the 3d printer. I have owned 3 now. They are great fun. I use blender for 3d. I looked into tinker cad, but just just be aware that it's being discontinued. Another problem with cloud software.


Well I have a 3D printer on the way and trying to learn 3D as I know regular CAD and own AutoCAD Lt 2008. So I found a web based very simple 3D Cad program, TinkerCAD and all my files are stored in the "cloud" or someplace anyway. It may be all I need or I may need something with more features, but for now its the cloud for me!
Forgot to add, its free for now and IF I need added features its $9.95 a month, cheaper by the year.

[William Adams]

Yeah, but we could use a few more people in the industry such as Jim Von Ehr who didn't blink when threatened by Adobe, and kept Freehand a viable product for an additional 10 years.

Still waiting to see a successor come along. Serif's Affinity Designer is looking close, but I need for it to be cross-platform so that I can use it on a Windows box, or I need for Apple to make a Mac OS X machine w/ an active digitizer / stylus. Oh well, given how my Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 has worked out, I may have to break down and purchase an Axiotron Modbook.

[William Adams]

As regards TinkerCAD being discontinued, I'd thought that that was from a couple of years back and that Autodesk had bought them and was going to continue it — has something changed since then?

All the search results on this seem to be from ~2 years ago.

[Tim Bateson]

I'm still using Adobe Illustrator CS not 1 or 2 or 6 just CS from 2000. Does everything I need and more. Keeping up with the annual versions - selling point of the Cloud - is over rated in my book. I should add that hardware isn't a real issue. I've been in IT long before PCs were around & it "was" true at one time that software wasn't compatible at a certain point. That hasn't been true for a long time. Case in point - my CS running on both a laptop and PC -- both i7 running Win 7 Pro. Actually ran on Win 8 too, but I couldn't stand that garbage so went back to Win7.

Now someone I'm sure will find the 1 peice of software that no longer runs, OK, bad programming happens - done my share in the past. The reality is if it works why spend more money? Floating in the Cloud, PC based, Mars based, what-ever floats your boat

[Bill George]

As regards TinkerCAD being discontinued, I'd thought that that was from a couple of years back and that Autodesk had bought them and was going to continue it — has something changed since then?

All the search results on this seem to be from ~2 years ago.

Yup Autodesk bought them out a couple years ago, maybe if my internet connection was solid I would be ok. Might go back and try again. Rhino has wonderful features, but way overkill for what I need right now.

Tim, I agree with you. Do you really need the latest software for design in a laser engraving business? Sometimes an upgrade is not...

I am running Office XP on Windows 7 and without issues.

[Matt McCoy]

Good luck on the 3d printer. I have owned 3 now. They are great fun. I use blender for 3d. I looked into tinker cad, but just just be aware that it's being discontinued. Another problem with cloud software.

Hi Clark,

Tinkercad was acquired by Autodesk two years ago:

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/autodesk-purchases-tinkercad/

Blender was discontinued and then revived as an open-source project:

https://www.blender.org/foundation/history/

[Mayo Pardo]

For those in need of software - you can download directly from Adobe for free:
Illustrator CS2
Photoshop CS2
Audition 3 with tons of sound effects
Acrobat Standard 7 and Pro 7
Creative Suite 2 for Mac or PC
(Most offerings on the final page are both Mac or PC)

It's not easy to find the download page but basically you just go to adobe.com and at the bottom of their page is a link for downloads. Click that. When it opens pay no attention to the free trial stuff. Near the top click the link for "Other downloads" and when that opens then click on the link for CS2. When that opens, scroll down and click the link for English. This opens a page with about 12 different full downloads all for free. On one of the pages you may be presented with a screen to create a log in. I entered my email and created a password, and after sending me a confirmation email I was in. There was never any payment details requested, so this is totally free.

[William A. Foster]

For those in need of software - you can download directly from Adobe for free:
Illustrator CS2
Photoshop CS2
Audition 3 with tons of sound effects
Acrobat Standard 7 and Pro 7
Creative Suite 2 for Mac or PC
(Most offerings on the final page are both Mac or PC)

It's not easy to find the download page but basically you just go to adobe.com and at the bottom of their page is a link for downloads. Click that. When it opens pay no attention to the free trial stuff. Near the top click the link for "Other downloads" and when that opens then click on the link for CS2. When that opens, scroll down and click the link for English. This opens a page with about 12 different full downloads all for free. On one of the pages you may be presented with a screen to create a log in. I entered my email and created a password, and after sending me a confirmation email I was in. There was never any payment details requested, so this is totally free.

Good to know . Thank's for the info......:D

[William Adams]

FWIW, that download was supposed to be limited to only people who had a license for CS2.

Last time I checked, there was a verification against one’s Adobe account to so limit it.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57562515-263/adobe-releases-creative-suite-2-for-free/


UPDATE, 2:40 p.m. PT: There has been clarification since this story broke. Adobe has not released the CS2 software for free. Instead, it has canceled its CS2 license management servers, so for those with existing licenses it is now offering downloads that do not require contact with the licensing servers. This service is only going to be available for those with existing Adobe CS2 licenses, which will be verified when creating the Adobe account to download the software.

blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2013/01/update-on-cs2-and-acrobat-7-activation-servers.html


...to ensure that any customers activating those old versions can continue to use their software, we issued a serial number directly to those customers.

Unambiguous statement by an Adobe official (post #37):

forums.adobe.com/message/4979305


There is no change. The software and serial numbers were posted for use solely by existing legal Adobe licensees of CS2 and other products of that era (i.e., purchased licenses for these products from Adobe, authorized resellers, or via registered with Adobe transfer from such licencees) who need to reactivate their software (such as having to reinstall due to system failures, etc.) and for no other purpose whatsoever, despite the apparent wishful thinking of many.

[John Bronleewe]

Regarding the FREE Adobe Illustrator CS2 (same goes for Photoshop). Right from the download page:


Read before you download a CS2 product
Adobe has disabled the activation server for CS2 products, including Acrobat 7, because of a technical issue. These products were released more than seven years ago and do not run on many modern operating systems; Adobe no longer supports them.

Adobe strongly advises against running unsupported and outdated software. Only customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or Acrobat 7 and need to maintain their current use of these products may use the serial numbers provided during the download.

Whether or not you can get this installed and running without a hack, you're still running pirated software if you never paid for it in the first place. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble. I once worked with a guy that bought a Education copy of Corel Draw and for his company to save money. No matter how many times I explained to him that he's still breaking the law and isn't much better than someone that simply downloaded it from a torrent site, he never got it. Oh well. I tried.

[Rich Harman]

I once worked with a guy that bought a Education copy of Corel Draw and for his company to save money.

I upgraded my X6 education version to X7 for under $200 using their upgrade offer. I phoned it in to make sure that it applied to the education version and that I would end up with the X7 commercial version. They said no problem and provided me with an X6 commercial serial number so that I could make the upgrade work. Just FYI...