Anyone ever used one of these [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Don Baer

08-11-2005, 1:42 PM

as an alternative to lasers.

I have been thinking of getting one just to play around with and it seems to be a lower cost alternative to lasers and it also appears to overcome some of the limitations to laser.

http://www.scmsysteminc.com/engraving.php

I'm not going to do this as a full time thing so for a few hundred $$ do you think it would be a good tool.

Lee DeRaud

08-11-2005, 2:37 PM

Don Baer

08-11-2005, 3:17 PM

Looks like "The Mother of All Dremel Tools". Pretty cool tool, but comparing it to a laser is like comparing a bandsaw to a lathe: there's really not much overlap in function between the two.

Might be interesting to see one of those widgets installed in a ShopBot though.:cool:

I recognise the fact that it's not a laser but for some of the things I want to do I think it will actually do a better job then a laser.

I think that the ability to do 3-D carving, cut almost any material and do it on any surface makes it a better choice for my needs. Especialy since the investment is minimal compared to spending thousand for a laser.

Shaddy Dedmore

08-11-2005, 3:42 PM

But can you close a lid, hit Go on a computer and walk away, getting the same results every time? Of course it depends on what you want to do... but most of the people here are in the awards industry, and things like signage, putting high res photo's on stone, lower res (but still photo's) on wood and acrylic. Making 500 key chains with 50 characters and a logo, silicone bracelets, intricate scroll work (some of the ornaments i do i wouldn't even attempt with a scroll saw, let alone a hand-held rotary tool)

Apples and oranges like Lee said. So if the stuff you're planning on doing can be done with a hand held tool, and the number of items is going to be that low, then getting a laser would be a huge waste. Some might be interested in supplementing with one, like some will laser patterns and masks, then sandblast after. Sounds like a little more investigating is in order to see what all a laser is capable of.

I re-read this and some of it seemed a little sarcastic, but that was not my intention, but I don't know how to change the wording so I just left it. Hopefully it didn't come accross that way.

Don Baer

08-11-2005, 4:11 PM

I re-read this and some of it seemed a little sarcastic, but that was not my intention, but I don't know how to change the wording so I just left it. Hopefully it didn't come accross that way.

Shaddy,
No problem since I know that most who post here use the Laser for there livelyhood and I recognise that this is not a production tool. I am only thowing the information out here as an alternative.
From a lot of the posts I have read people have a lot of missunderstanding as to what can and cannot be done with a laser. I had some of the same missconceptions prior to reading many of the posts on this forum. I have read enough posts to find out that laser like any tool have there uses and felt that by sharing this info I might be providing a possible solution to some problems.
I for one cannot justfy buying a laser as a hobbiest any more then I can afford a shopbot as much as I'd like to have one. I do all of my work on a table or hand held router.

:D

Lee DeRaud

08-11-2005, 4:30 PM

I recognise the fact that it's not a laser but for some of the things I want to do I think it will actually do a better job then a laser.No doubt. I'm not saying the laser would be a better tool for your purposes, I'm saying they are fundamentally different tools.

Bruce Volden

08-11-2005, 5:12 PM

Anyone ever used one of these

I have wanted to try one of these also. I have had the site book-marked for several years but just haven't bit the bullet! I do a fair share of gunstock engraving and could see right away this tool has huge potential!! I'm quite limited with my lasers, focal point, radius on stock etc.. But, alas,~~as I age I have all kinds of great money making ideas, but no desire to deal with the hassles of more stuff to "trip" over or maintain??.. Bruce

Brent Perkinson

08-11-2005, 7:50 PM

Thanks for putting that out there Don. Like some of the others said it doesn't take the place of a laser as they would want you to believe on there site but in many different cases I can see where they could go great together hand and hand.

Rose Hamacher

08-11-2005, 9:18 PM

Hi Don,

I got my system (Classic II) about a month ago and have not had a chance to play with the engraver much yet. . .I initially wanted to upgrade my 'sandcarving' capability and am very happy with that part of it. From my initial attempts with the 400XS I can say it will take some practice. I debated about buying another engraver that could do 'bare' metal, which you know a laser engraver cannot do, but after research I found I could get the whole sandcarving + 400XS system for less than a bottom of the line rotary engraver. That said, remember I said it will take a whole lot of practice to get proficient with the 400XS. SCM sends you a whole bunch of videos to watch versus any hard copy instruction books. A video is okay but it takes way too much time to view and absorb versus looking up a particular process in a book. I think the whole package is well worth the $$ spent, however.

Regards,
Rose

Don Baer

08-11-2005, 10:20 PM

Rose;
Thanks for the feedback. I am not quite ready to pull the trigger yet but am getting real close. Also thanks for seeing my post as it was inteded. This is another tools and another way of tackling some of the challenges we face in our quest to be aritisens. No single tool is the perfect solution for all of the challenges we face in our quest to produce craftsmanship.

Hilton Lister

08-12-2005, 3:32 AM

But is no substitute for a laser. I have been using a similar tool, (probably not as good) for over 20 years in my engraving business and while I am quite proficient with it, it is impossible to get consistent results as you can with a laser. That being said, it is extremely satisfying when it all comes together.
The dust created is also a worry as you have to get quite close to the work to see what you are doing. I have a practice of holdiing my breath when cutting, but I do mostly metals which don't fly about so much. Bone, glass, wood etc produce much lighter particles which spend more time in the air. One really would not like to be breathing in glass dust! Some sort of respirator system is quite desirable.

Rose Hamacher

08-12-2005, 12:11 PM

Just a couple more thoughts. . . the 400XS lends itself to more of a 3-D interpretation on wood, metal, whatever. . . but eventually I do hope to be able to do some text on metal (like wedding cake knife & server and the like). Like I said it will take some practice. The tool is very fast (400,000 rpm) and does not grab like a dremel does. Also, I believe the sandcarving aspect is a perfect partner with the laser. Laser engraving alone on glass cannot compare with sandblasting - excuse me - sandcarving (the preferred term when referring to the artistic stuff). Just my two cents.

Hilton Lister

08-12-2005, 3:31 PM

Laser does not compare with sandcarving, EXCEPT on labour cost. If you are working in a commercial area, the processing time for the job is all important and unfortunately with most clients, the dollar is the bottom line. Most times the customer is quite happy to accept the lesser quality that the laser offers when it means that the product costs about half the price.

Rodne Gold

08-12-2005, 4:21 PM

I went thru their site and they DO compare their system to lasers - so in essence they are saying this is a "comparable" system.
http://www.scmsysteminc.com/laser_engraver_comparison.php
http://www.scmsysteminc.com/system_comparison.php
I think the site is about marketing , and they are
very expensive , their one system is $7K+ for a relatively small blasting system, the tool and some lettering stuff , a lot of marketing literature and no compressor !!!
If I had air , and didnt have to buy a wodge of other stuff , I might take a chance on the carver tool , I would love to use it in say a little Roland EGX machine that can do 3d as a high speed spindle , depending on the power of the thing. Seems reliable , Its got a 1 yr warrantee on the bearings ? (A net search reveals that this tool isn't unique either
http://www.toolcenter.com/turbo-carver/thetool/thetool.html )
Go look at supplies on SCM site and see what the extras cost as well? ... I dunno .....Slick site - a little too slick?

Jerry Allen

08-12-2005, 4:37 PM

I have a Turbocarver II with a misting system. 450000rpm. It's got its uses and is easier to use than a Dremel due to less torque. But don't kid yourself. It still takes a lot of practice to become proficient with it. Learning to make patterns and learning to keep it from drifting or catching grain is not as easy as the ads would have you beleive. I've worked wood and aluminum. I haven't used it much since I got my laser. True it can cut deeper, but it still takes a lot of time and the results are not that great in the hands of a novice.

Doug McIntyre

08-13-2005, 6:48 AM

I would second Jerry's comments. I bought the Turbocarver II as an addition to the laser and so far the I have come to the conclusion that it will take a lot more practice before becoming profficient in it's use. I am sure it will enhance a lot of my laser work - especially glass, but there is no comparison to what the laser can do.

Frank Corker

10-08-2005, 5:23 PM

400XS engraver looks really good, don't know if you can get it over here in England but it looks like it would be a nice 'add on'. You just have to decide is it a hobby or a business. Business dictates that the laser is the quickest and most efficient. The work displayed on the site is brilliant and if you have an artistic flair for drawing, it could well be a godsend. As a hobby the laser is one expensive choice where the 400XS engraver is a much cheaper option that would be able to do a much more varied range, albeit slower.

Joe Pelonio

10-10-2005, 9:54 AM

I think that would be a great tool for a hobbyist who is not doing production work and is artistic, with a steady hand. The laser does allow anyone with computer knowledge and the ability to learn to do some beautiful work, artist or not, using commercially available patterns and clipart. I can see that this carving tool will be useless in the hands of people that do not have the steady hands and ability to control it. That being the case work done with it while not really "hand carved" should still bring a better price than laser work. Some of us laser people can improve our prices by doing "orginal art" that we have drawn into the computer or hand drawn and scanned, but we still face competition, especially at craft fairs, from hand made (and scroll saw) work that is advertised specifically as "hand made - not laser".

Theresa Hyndman

09-26-2007, 6:04 PM

I have a used one i will sell. It has all the videos & manuals & lots of tips or bits or whatever they are called. My husband bought it & never got a chance to use it...

Eric Allen

09-26-2007, 7:40 PM

I have a used one i will sell. It has all the videos & manuals & lots of tips or bits or whatever they are called. My husband bought it & never got a chance to use it...

Is it the same brand, or something different? Also, how much are you looking to get for it? You can PM me if you don't want to post that on the public forum. I'll check over the next couple of days.