Oddball vise solution & question

[David Ragan]

Here's how I managed to secure an oddball piece for a table apron

313843


I guess if I had any sense, I woulda planed it before the miter. Anybody have an alternate idea how to secure a piece like this?

And, in my ongoing longing for a tail vise, I found the following in Google images on searching.

My bench has a face mounted @ each end.

Anybody use this method? Doesn't it cause racking, even if load is secured in center of vise face?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5YLK-unqgDy92SLj1lv9Vn4QnwF3uq81fMjvr33Vv0X4rjBUK4Q

[Kees Heiden]

The second picture, is that on a Record type vise? I have made a large wooden jaw with a dog which can move up or down. That allows clamping thin to thick boards. The dog has a long tail, which reaches down between the screw and guiderails of the vise.

Better explained with pictures on my blog: http://seekelot.blogspot.nl/2015/02/new-endvise.html

[Bill Houghton]

This is one of the many reasons that handscrews exist. Thanks for posting the picture for those who've never used this approach.

[Charles Wiggins]

I guess I don't understand why you could not put it in one of the vises you have and plane it there. You mention racking. Is that the problem? If so, perhaps you should move one of those vises to the front of the bench to use as a face vise or consider making a Moxon vise (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moxonVise/moxonVise-01.asp).

[Jim Koepke]

There are many ways to hold work steady without a vise. Having a miter on the ends adds a little difficulty.

This might work:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223428-Holding-Without-A-Vise

As far as vise racking goes there are solutions:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743-Anti-Rack-Spacer-Stack

My scrap pieces are usually saved to use in a vise to deal with racking. One advantage is with the shim stack or a piece of scrap the vise will not close beyond a certain point and that then keeps the workpiece from bowing.

With a mitered end, the holding device may need to have a slightly beveled face to help facilitate its holding abilities.

I have also used bench dogs with a small sharpened nail to hold work.

jtk

[Judson Green]

I guess I don't understand why you could not put it in one of the vises you have and plane it there. You mention racking. Is that the problem? If so, perhaps you should move one of those vises to the front of the bench to use as a face vise or consider making a Moxon vise (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moxonVise/moxonVise-01.asp).

Me too. Seems a decent front vise would have no issue.

313846

[Judson Green]

The second picture, is that on a Record type vise? I have made a large wooden jaw with a dog which can move up or down. That allows clamping thin to thick boards. The dog has a long tail, which reaches down between the screw and guiderails of the vise.

Better explained with pictures on my blog: http://seekelot.blogspot.nl/2015/02/new-endvise.html

I did the same thing on my end vise.

313845

Here im glueing a reinforcement chunk on. And the dog in the vise is round on account of dog being set very near the front so the racking wouldn't be an issue.

[Jim Koepke]

the dog in the vise is round on account of dog being set very near the front so the racking wouldn't be an issue.

There are more problems to the issue of racking than the work slipping off the dog. It can put a strain on the vise mounting or even end up springing the vise so it will not hold well on one side or the other.

My 80+ year old large metal working bench vise has a slight misalignment from a life of working with most work being held on the left side of the jaws. A vise with a wooden support structure is likely to suffer such damage much quicker.

jtk

[David Ragan]

There are more problems to the issue of racking than the work slipping off the dog. It can put a strain on the vise mounting or even end up springing the vise so it will not hold well on one side or the other.

My 80+ year old large metal working bench vise has a slight misalignment from a life of working with most work being held on the left side of the jaws. A vise with a wooden support structure is likely to suffer such damage much quicker.

jtk

That was my question--cause the Record vise, etc are designed to have the force applied @ the middle of the face/plate, as it were.

[Judson Green]

There are more problems to the issue of racking than the work slipping off the dog. It can put a strain on the vise mounting or even end up springing the vise so it will not hold well on one side or the other.

My 80+ year old large metal working bench vise has a slight misalignment from a life of working with most work being held on the left side of the jaws. A vise with a wooden support structure is likely to suffer such damage much quicker.

jtk

Sure but work between the dogs needn't be cranked. What do you do Jim? I know your bench vise setup is near enough like mine.

Still don't understand the OP's application - why the work couldn't be held in the vise, forget about dogs.

[Jim Matthews]

I clamp stuff like this in my Moxxon face vise, all the time.

You just need to put a spacer in the vise at the opposite end
to deal with the natural racking that will result.

I keep a few offcuts the length of the vise (20") in various thicknesses.
These get clamped to the leg below the vise until I get everything situated.

I'm not keen to plane higher off the ground than I must.

[Jim Koepke]

That was my question--cause the Record vise, etc are designed to have the force applied @ the middle of the face/plate, as it were.

If the force is applied to the center any tendency to rack will be eliminated.

In the case of a force being applied to only one side of a single screw vise, there will be racking force. Many metal vises can withstand this force to some extent. Given the nature of physics and materials, there will be some effect.

In a bar clamp or a pipe clamp the force of racking is what "locks" the sliding sections.

Even the way a holdfast "racks" is what accounts for its ability to hold.

jtk

[David Ragan]

If the force is applied to the center any tendency to rack will be eliminated.

In the case of a force being applied to only one side of a single screw vise, there will be racking force. Many metal vises can withstand this force to some extent. Given the nature of physics and materials, there will be some effect.

In a bar clamp or a pipe clamp the force of racking is what "locks" the sliding sections.

Even the way a holdfast "racks" is what accounts for its ability to hold.

jtk

Yep-the US Navy's booklet "Tools and Their Uses" describes how all tools are simply some variation of the incline plane and/or lever.

And, you mentioned the holdfast--friction gets such a bad rap in everyday life.....but, that is the reason why nuts don't fly off of bolts, right?

[Frederick Skelly]

Here's how I managed to secure an oddball piece for a table apron

313843

I guess if I had any sense, I woulda planed it before the miter. Anybody have an alternate idea how to secure a piece like this?

I think you have a pretty clever approach there David. Thanks for sharing it.
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Sure but work between the dogs needn't be cranked. What do you do Jim? I know your bench vise setup is near enough like mine.

Still don't understand the OP's application - why the work couldn't be held in the vise, forget about dogs.

Work has to be held solid so as not to come out from between a dog and the vise's dog if any lateral force is used during planing or other operations.

Today some stock of about 5/16" thickness was being planed to be a back panel. With a spacer stack it was possible to set the vise so it isn't racking and it also isn't closing enough to bow the thin wood. It was possible to work cross grain when desired and also hold the piece to allow cutting a rabbet for a ship lap between the two pieces of the back panel.

I can not speak for the OP. It seemed to be that he doesn't have a vise mounted on his bench as of yet.

jtk

[David Ragan]

Sure but work between the dogs needn't be cranked. What do you do Jim? I know your bench vise setup is near enough like mine.

Still don't understand the OP's application - why the work couldn't be held in the vise, forget about dogs.

Yes, your point is well taken-I could have simply clamped the work in my vice and planed cross-ways (with the grain, but parallel to face of vise).

I am still at the stage of figuring out my options, though.