ripping soft maple......again!

[Justin Jump]

I posted on this a while ago, and since I have seen some OK results, but not the smoothness I am hoping for.

So I am ripping soft maple with a Freud Industrial (not the HD Diablo line), thin kerf rip blade, 30t, and I am still seeing saw marks on my ripped edge.

Blade alignment is with 0.008" of the t slot and I kick the fence out from the blade 0.003"-0.004", this is on a Ridgid R4512.

Now - I am OK with dropping the money for a Forrest WW2 or along those lines, I just don't want to drop the money and I still have the issue.

Anyone have a similar issue and did a better blade help?

THX

[Joe Jensen]

That blade should be ok. Do you get similar marks when ripping other species?

[John TenEyck]

IMO your blade alignment is poor and the fence alignment not great. I would get the blade within 0.002" and the same for the fence and try again. I know your total misalignment is 0.003 - 0.004" between the blade and fence, but starting with both aligned to the miter slot is a better way to go, and if you'll be at half the tolerance you are now. If your wood isn't binding you should get pretty smooth cuts with that blade, although you may still see some saw marks. Freud's glue line rip blade is the best one I know of in their line for score free edges.

John

Oh yeah, is your blade sharp and clean?

[Dan Hahr]

You are over a hundredth of an inch from parallel; you are going to see blade marks with any blade. Even with the best blade, you are going to have the tips of the teeth cutting grooves in either the front or the back, or technically both either side of the blade. 12 thousands may not upset some woodworkers, but they are usually using handsaws. You need to figure out how to align your fence, table, and blade. Your blade should be fine. I routinely use that line and below with great results, but my saw is aligned within a thousandth of an inch.

Dan

[glenn bradley]

Agree; this is an alignment issue. For ripping the miter slot does not come into play but, that's beside the point. The miter slot often gets used as the reference for both blade and fence as this is an easy and predictable method of checking things. My left hand miter slot (this is the one I use the gauge in the most) is within .001" from the same spot on a reference plate, front and rear through rotation) that I use for setup . . . it happens to be a Freud. The fence is within about .002" as there is that much deviation along the full length of the fence face.

Toeing the fence away from the blade is a personal choice I did not make. I want a consistent reference edge to ride against for the full cut. If the material is lively this will result in some saw marks as the rear of the blade passes the already cut edge which is deviating. The occurrence is rare enough that I have never thought to toe out as a "normal" setting. I would get your saw dialed in a lot closer before I tried to solve the behavior with another quality blade. Also, although I used TK blades for years on a very well tuned saw, I did use stabilizers when ripping or doing angled cuts.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Agree on the alignment advice.

One question , though - how thick is the board you are ripping? I only go to my dedicated 30t rip when I am north of 5/4. OTher than that, I just run my WW II.

The point being - the coarser-toothed blades have a tendency to leave saw marks. There is a trade off between that, and the ability to make a clean cut with "normal" horsepower in thicker wood.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Justin, there are several issues.

1) don't use a thin kerf blade

2) it's difficult to feed wood evenly, practice your technique

3) since it's solid wood, try using a short fence that ends just past the leading edge of the blade. (you can make a wood fence addition for this)

4) try to improve your alignment

Regards, Rod.

[Roy Harding]

I agree with what others have said regarding alignment.

I'd add - if you aren't using feather boards (one situated just in front of the blade - pushing against the fence, and one on the fence, pushing the material down on the table), give that a try - it will cut down on any chatter you may be experiencing.

[Mike Wilkins]

I am using a Freud full kerf rip blade with good results. I am not fond of thin kerf unless for bench-top saws.
As others have stated, a little time getting everything aligned properly will pay big dividends.

[john bateman]

It's also important that your lumber be jointed flat on one face and one edge prior to ripping. If the board rocks at all as it goes through the blade you will get kerf marks.
I have the Ridgid TS3650 saw, and had to get the blade/fence alignment to within a couple thousandths to get good results.

[Justin Ludwig]

YMMV, but I rip 8-12' boards hand fed. Soft maple is notorious for tension release. It's the one wood I always add a short rip fence to my TS's fence and I rip all my stock +1/8 then plane it to width (-1/16 each side). Problem solved.

No planer? Go buy one. :cool:

Let me add - I use a custom made Carbide Processor's Glue Line Rip which does a phenomenal job in all woods, except soft maple. It does a great job, but I still use the method above. That blade is full kerf and I bought it to replace the WWII - a decision I'd do again. Creeker's get a 10% discount.

[scott spencer]

How flat is the stock? The best blade in the world can only do so much if the wood is shifting during the cut.

[Peter Quinn]

YMMV, but I rip 8-12' boards hand fed. Soft maple is notorious for tension release. It's the one wood I always add a short rip fence to my TS's fence and I rip all my stock +1/8 then plane it to width (-1/16 each side). Problem solved.


This. Exactly this. You should have your saw aligned properly, I don't like thin kerf rip blades generally as they are a bit mushy and easily pushed around, your saw is not a heavy industrial cabinet saw so in not sure glue line rips free of saw marks are to be expected anyway, but above all else, soft maple has motion in it. You say "ripping"....can you be more specific? Are you splitting boards in half or thirds across their width? If so, I don't care what the species, what the saw or which blade you choose, you need to leave the material a bit wide and remove the saw marks as part of another process. In spite of your best efforts on other fronts the wood will always be one variable you cannot fully control or predict, so expect that and plan accordingly.

[Justin Jump]

First, as always thanks for the tips, I will revisit alignment this weekend!

@ Justin - yes I do have a planer, G0453Z. I am close on the setup, but I still get the serrated roller marks with light cuts. Another area I have been meaning to visit before my cabinet run.......

@ Peter - specifically, I am ripping my soft maple to the 1 1/2" wide face frame widths and 2 7/16" for stiles and rails for the doors and panels.

I have been able to clean most of it up with sanding, but that's a step I am hoping to avoid on a 40+ door and drawer run!!

[Justin Ludwig]

@ Justin - yes I do have a planer, G0453Z. I am close on the setup, but I still get the serrated roller marks with light cuts. Another area I have been meaning to visit before my cabinet run.......

I use the same planer. Adjust the outfeed roller up .002, run some stock on edge and check for roller marks. The adjustment screws aren't really designed for "fine" tune, but with a "soft touch" approach it can be done. If you still get roller marks, I'd move the outfeed .001 at a time. Too much and your stock will stall or not feed.

Slightly off topic: My door stock gets ripped to 2-1/2". Planed on one side down to 2-7/16". The other side that has saw marks gets taken off when fed through the shaper. Final stock is 2-3/8". A number I chose because my shaper cutters leave a 3/8" tenon. Makes math easy if I have to hand figure any doors (door width minus 4"). I picked up this method from other creekers. It serves me well.

[Cody Colston]

I am in the habit of ripping stock 1/16" over final width and then jointing the ripped edge. Even with perfect alignment saw marks can occur. The jointer removes them.

[Justin Jump]

@ Justin - same here on the tenon math, only my Freud Shaker bit has a 7/16" tenon!!

@ Cody - I have done that, but on only 1 1/2" wide stock, that's a little too close for my comfort to a spinning helical cutter, even with push pads. What I have been doing though is rip one edge, joint the edge, repeat the rip.

[Peter Quinn]

There are lots of ways to skin this cat depending on your equipment and comfort level. All these problems are very easily solved with a shaper...in fact they basically don't exist, but a shaper is probably not the prognosis for every guy that wants to make a door or even 40.....you don't buy a shaper until you hit 45 doors.:rolleyes: What ever method you choose make sure it leaves your edges square and clean, I just never consider a saw blade the last stop in stock processing for cabinet work, regardless of saw or blade. I don't hesitate to joint 1 1/2" pieces, just don't pass the hands over the cutter, a feather board clamped at the leading edge of the outfeed table can help keep things down and remind you where your fingers shouldn't be. I like a spiral head planer for the narrow face frames, if yours leaves marks it needs work, that should not happen.

Most of the cabinet doors I'm making now are either inset or full overlay, both require careful fitting IMO to look good, so I glue up the doors good edge in, I leave the saw marks out where they will be cleaned up in the fitting process, usually over the jointer or with a good cross cut blade and a sled on the TS, then careful edge sanding. You can even joint tops and bottoms with light passes and a backer so the stiles don't blow out.

[J.R. Rutter]

I just never consider a saw blade the last stop in stock processing for cabinet work, regardless of saw or blade.

This. Everything here leaves with either a fine knife finish or sanded.