Confused as to which lathe to buy!

[Tony Cognato]

I haven't touched a lathe since my early twenties but I am 61 now and have the "bug" really bad. I've always loved buildings things from wood and want to use a lathe mostly for table legs, bowls, and anything creative as gifts. It seems the more I look the more confused I get. I was about to settle on the Nova 1624-44 for $999.00 on sale, but then I read all you guys talking about the speed control and I look at the DVR XP for $1799.00. I am looking at Rikon, Jet, Delta, Grizzly, and Nova. Any experts out there with some advice? I'm an electrician by trade and am also a bit OCD about everything I do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh, by the way, I really do not want to pass the $1500.00 bar unless it is the absolute best thing. Tony

[Thomas Canfield]

You will get a lot of advice, but the best is to get with a turning club and try to check out different lathes, tool requirements, etc to try to put a list of needs and options together. With $1500 top, you should try to find a used lathe if you want some mass. I was going to sand and turn the bottom off a irregular shaped bowl/section today and found my little Nova Comet II could swing the wood, but it shook so bad (fastened securely to a heavy base) that I could not work on it and had to put it on my Powermatic. Lathe mass really helps with larger irregular shapes, where the little Nova Comet II can turn almost 12" diameter well balanced material fairly well. Remember to allow $$$ for all the little things like gouges, sharpening system, safety equipment (eye, dust, etc) that you will also need.

[John K Jordan]

Tony, you will have a blast! I'm 65 now and have been woodturning for, can't remember, but a long time. There was a thread recently in the Turner's Forum here which addressed a some issues: "Entry level lathe" started by Izzy Camire on 5/1/15. If this link works it will bring up that thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230633-Entry-level-lathe&p=2412377#post2412377

BTW, the Turner's Forum is probably a better place to ask your question.

You will get nearly as many different suggestions as there are people. One issue is how to avoid buying the wrong lathe at first and soon have to buy another one. Many people do this - I certainly did.

i was not impressed by the DVR or Nova, but I haven't looked at one for at least a decade so things may have changed. I personally use a Jet 1642, 110v 1.5hp variable speed lathe. I love it. In fact I recently bought a second one, used. I know others who have these and like them. Our woodturning club uses one for demos. It has plenty of power, is sturdy, and has more length than many. I also have two lathes without variable speed which cause me to highly recommend electronic variable speed with reverse.

In the other thread I mentioned, I made an off-the -top-of-head list if some things I would consider in a lathe (some of these concern buying an old lathe which was the subject of the thread):


- Variable speed. SO much better than shifting belts.
- Enough swing. Ain't no easy way to turn a 12" bowl or plate on a lathe with 12" swing. Perhaps outboard.
- Enough length. An inch too short is limiting. (I have turned shovel handles on mine.)
- Mass and sturdiness. A light-weight lathe can cause much grief and seriously limit your turning.
- A strong enough spindle. Bigger is better. 5/8" is too small IMO, except for small things.
- A quality tool rest, banjo, and tailstock. Must be quick to adjust with no wrenches needed!
- Enough power. Large bowls can make use of more power than pens.
- Reversible. Not absolutely necessary but very handy.
- Good stand. Some table-mounted lathes are hard to get close enough to.
- Compatible power. 110v, 220v, three phase? Hate to rewire before even turning it on.
- Standard spindle threads. An old lathe with weird threads may prevent fitting a chuck.
- A #2 morse taper in the headstock spindle. Most accessories are #2. Same with tailstock.
- A good live center for the tailstock.
- Good bearings. Some old lathes have worn out bearings and/or unacceptable runout.
- A tailstock that is aligned with the headstock. Very important.


Good luck, and have fun!

JKJ

PS, if you are interested in seeing a few things I've done on my lathe, here are some pictures, mostly small stuff (assuming the link works here):
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.101238256567388.2825.100000436434935&type=1&l=7913a23da6

[Bill Orbine]

After forty years, I think you'll find that old iron still rules, but some of the accessories made today are worthy...

[ian maybury]

I've been used to having a metal cutting lathe available, and miss it badly. There's times i'd like to be able to turn wooden parts too, although for projects and not as an activity in itself.

I've not looked closely, but wonder if a metal cuttting lathe is a reasonable compromise in some cases? It's probably not going to swing large bowls and the like for lack of clearance over the bed, but might otherwise be fairly adaptable?

[Tom Brouillette]

Tony, I've only been turning since late last year, and am on my 2nd lathe. I started with a 12" PSI Turncrafter that got me hooked, but it also let me know what I needed in my next lathe. Mainly it was too small and underpowered for what I needed, and did not have reverse speed and a rotating headstock. It did have EVS, which I liked, but I found myself using speed to compensate for poor technique as I was learning. I hope that makes sense. It was like going to the driving range and going through every club in the bag to find one I could hit, rather than taking one or two clubs and working on the technique to hit them.
Long story short, I bought a Nova 1624 for $999, and have loved it ever since. It is true that changing belts isn't as easy as turning a dial, but I have learned so much more technique using fewer speeds. I have a speed change down to about 30 seconds. Others don't talk much about importance of reverse, but I would not buy one without it, both for sanding and reverse-turning. It is also important to note the total cost of the vortex is at least 2x the cost of the lathe. You will find quickly how many turning tools, sharpening system, dust collector, bandsaw (maybe), etc. you NEED.
Have fun with your new addiction. I am.

[Thom Sturgill]

If one tried to present a graphical selection you might draw a square and label it BIG at the top and SMALL at the bottom. Label the left side BOWL and the right side SPINDLE. Now you can locate where is that space a given lathe would fit. Obviously the Vega 2600 is in the top left corner and I would place the OneWay 1224 in the lower left due to its high top speed. Place the Grizzly 18x47 in the center with the Jet 1642 below it and the PM 3520B above it. In fact most lathes would cluster along a vertical line in the center as they try to strike a balance between bowls and spindles.

Most Reeves drives, due to high low end speed and decent bed length tend more toward spindle while the larger midis tend toward bowl due to the short bed. Add a bed extension and you have fine spindle lathes. Smaller minis and midis would be pen turners which is a special case of spindle lathes.

Once you decide what kind of turning you want to do locate the appropriate area and look at the models found there. The problems of course are that many will not agree as to where a given lathe belongs and most turners do a variety of types of turning.

[Tony Cognato]

Thanks guys, it helps to hear from those who do this stuff every day. I have been leaning lately towards the Delta 46-460 with an ext. bed. That may leave me some money for tools and sharpening equipment, which is the next tool I would love advice on. Tony

[Thom Sturgill]

Thanks guys, it helps to hear from those who do this stuff every day. I have been leaning lately towards the Delta 46-460 with an ext. bed. That may leave me some money for tools and sharpening equipment, which is the next tool I would love advice on. Tony

While the 46-460 is a fine machine, there have been serious problems with parts availablity. I would look at the Jet 1221EVS

[Roger Chandler]

While the 46-460 is a fine machine, there have been serious problems with parts availablity. I would look at the Jet 1221EVS

I have the Delta 46-460 midi, and I wholeheartedly agree with Thom here! The Jet 1221 VS. is very similar, but likely to not have issues that are associated with the Delta. They have a different switch system, and I personally think it is a better design on the Jet 1221. Our turning club purchased one recently and it has gotten much use and a lot of praise.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tony,

Keep in mind, the lathe is actually the cheapest part of becoming a turner! A few years ago I got to teasing the turners here. They decided to get some revenge. Taking up a collection, a Jet VS Mini showed up on my doorstep with a Nova chuck. Over the next few weeks basic tools and materials streamed in to my home via the revenge seekers. For 2 years I turned on a 1x12 set up between 2 A-frame ladders in my unfinished shop. I used a construction light stand for lighting even though I had $600 of fluorescent lighting in boxes sitting in the corner waiting to be installed. Finally after 2 1/2 years, I figured out I was over $2,000 in accessories purchased of my pocket and I still hadn't finished my shop. I put the lathe away, finished the shop and ordered a PM-3520B.

My point is that turning accessories are the big ticket items.....they will nickel and dime you to death!

That said....turning is the closest thing to instant gratification of the wood working forms! It is addictive!

[Tony Cognato]

I was definitely looking at the Jet 1221VS and liked it. This is the point where I start thinking for another $200.00 I could have the Nova 1624 which has gotten great reviews, and then for another couple hundred I can get...... so on and so forth. My original desire is the Jet 1442, $1599.00 with the cast iron legs. Then the Nova DVR XP is on sale for $1799.00. AAARRRGGGHHHH. Does anyone have any experience with the Rikon Midi ?

[Tony Cognato]

Sorry, me again. So the consensus is the Jet 1221vs is well worth the almost $200.00 increase in price over the Delta 46-460? I read about the service issues but thought they were being resolved. I have a band saw and jointer/planer by Delta for many years with no issues so the brand kinda sticks with you, albeit not cast in stone. Sometimes I am just too fussy for my own good, but it is this trait that has had people hiring me throughout the years. It's not as if I could change it anyway! Keep it coming gentlemen, I am enjoying hearing from such knowledgeable people. I like to gather all the info possible before I make purchases for tools. Thanks again!

[Roger Chandler]

Delta has been bought and sold and bought and ............well, while they have traditionally been a good company with good products, for some reason the parts thing is still problematic.

[Russell Stanton]

Tony

I have the Nova DVR and just love it. I am not bothered by the push button speed change and really like the swivel head. It saves my back when doing the inside of bowls and hollow forms. Note the sale price does not include the cast iron legs but there are plans for a make it yourself stand. Either way put some added weight on it and you'll be fine.
Russ

[Michael Mills]

I've had the Nova 1624 about six years and it has done all that I have needed. Typically for spindle orientation I never change speeds; for bowl orientation I normally change once (twice in a blue moon). Moving the belt is not an issue for me but I understand the convenience of electronic speed. I also rotate the head out to about 22.5* on any bowl interior.
I also have the Comet2 (purchased for my daughter). As someone else stated it will not handle a 12" out of balance piece but with smaller pieces (8-9") it seems to do well and never had a problem with spindle orientation. IIRC it is 5.6 amp and 3/4 HP.
I am sure the Jet 1221 is nice and it is heavier. I would like to try one as I have never used a tool rated over 100% efficient.

If you are interested, the Comet2 with a free G3 chuck for $479. Of course you can get it without the chuck for only $5 more. :)
http://www.tools-plus.com/nova-lathes.html

[david privett]

it might be worth it to you to wait to see how people like the grizzly g0766,it is in your price ballpark. It should be around 30 days before some have a good idea how it is.

[Tony Cognato]

:)It's funny you say that because I was looking at that and it seems to have everything I could ever want in a lathe. I truly thought this would be easier!

[Cary Falk]

With all the talk of bad motors in the Jet 1642 thread, I think I would stay clear of Jet/PM. I also think waiting for Roger's review of the G0766 in a couple weeks is a good idea

[Bob Dupras]

Thanks guys, it helps to hear from those who do this stuff every day. I have been leaning lately towards the Delta 46-460 with an ext. bed. That may leave me some money for tools and sharpening equipment, which is the next tool I would love advice on. TonyTony, I'm about to put my 46-460 with bed extension on sale because I've outgrown it. My advice is decide what the largest lathe you'll need, then buy at least one size bigger. My next lathe will be my last lathe (I hope). But it will be as big as I have space and wallet for.

[Paul Gilbert]

I don't know where you are located, but if it is within a days drive of Lubbock TX, there is some old iron (PM 90 and Oliver) at auction there. The current prices are < $200. See Rene Bates if interested.

[Tony Cognato]

I wish! I am about 30 minutes north of Boston, MA. Space is no issue for me. I would love to buy the be all/end all lathe in the first shot but unfortunately there are too many other matters requiring monetary distribution. Do not know too much about the Grizzlies but it seems like good advice to wait out the new model reviews. If I could get a decent midi for right price to hold me over... hmmmm.

[Reed Gray]

Well, the AAW Symposium is in Pittsburgh in a little over a month. It doesn't cost to go into the vendor area, and there are plenty of demos there. The variable speed is an accessory that once you have it, you can never do without it. Many lathes come with 3 phase motors and a handy converter. Some have brushless DC motors. The Nova DVR is a whole different set up. Do find the nearest club and check it out. Most clubs have mentors to help you spend your money and help you past some learning curves. Some do group buys of tools and supplies for discounts.

robo hippy

[Len Mullin]

Hey Tony, any less confused yet??? I'm not, and I read all of the replies.
Len

[Tony Cognato]

:confused:You nailed it!


Hey Tony, any less confused yet??? I'm not, and I read all of the replies.
Len

[David Linnabary]

Tony,

I think you may have answered the most important question in your original post, which is about spindle work vs bowl work. If you're making mostly parts for furniture projects then you're doing mostly spindle and small faceplate work which can be accomplished on an entry level machine. Some others have mentioned looking at some old iron which is the route I took. I may be in the minority of folks in that I didn't feel compelled to get into bowl work immediately, although I do like it very much, I just knew that making furniture parts was my first priority as I was developing my craft, knowing that bowl work was still very much in my future.

Now here's the caveat, buy the best quality accessories that you can afford from the start. While your first lathe may get pushed to the corner someday for a bigger unit, the tooling, chucks, sharpening gear, all that stuff will have served you from day one and you won't feel the need to upgrade those. You may even find that you continue to use your smaller lathe, I certainly do.

Yes, electronic variable speed is a sweet deal but I really don't mind making belt changes, turning is a very cathartic activity for me, time seems to go by so quickly when I'm turning.

My first lathe wound up being an older Atlas with a 12" swing and maybe 40" between centers, the only down side was an oddball spindle size but adapters are available to get around most problems. I think I may have paid around $200 for it.

I would just encourage you to find something to start turning on now and begin enjoying the craft until such time as you know what you desire in your next lathe and can afford to upgrade.

David

[Stan Smith]

I have a Jet `1221vs. It cost $780 w/o a stand which I made. I didn't know that the faceplate came attached with set screws and I ruined a spindle trying to get it off. My bad for not reading the manual first, but I had never had a faceplate with set screws before. Jet customer service was great and replaced the spindle for no cost and answered all of my questions from the plant in Tennessee via email. The motor has always made a little noise-even before I messed up the spindle. I have restricted space so a midi lathe was what I had to get. The Jet 1221vs is okay, but even with the added cost, I wish I would have got a more powerful midi.

[BILL DONAHUE]

There are a lot of good comments here so I'll add something a little different. My advice is to buy used. Look at as many options as you can, join a club and try out as many as you can, decide on some that will do the job and then look and be patient. Woodturning is an old guys activity and old guys lose interest or die off so there are always good used lathes on the market. I bought an eight month old Powermatic 3520B for $1800 about six years ago and could probably get close to that now if I sold it. Patience!

[Tony Cognato]

The club may be the way to go. I actually have been looking for used but am very limited by local Craig's List and lack of shipping from Ebay sellers.Thanks.



There are a lot of good comments here so I'll add something a little different. My advice is to buy used. Look at as many options as you can, join a club and try out as many as you can, decide on some that will do the job and then look and be patient. Woodturning is an old guys activity and old guys lose interest or die off so there are always good used lathes on the market. I bought an eight month old Powermatic 3520B for $1800 about six years ago and could probably get close to that now if I sold it. Patience!

[Stan Smith]

Shipping is an issue for me also. I sold a jet 1642 years ago and had to meet the buyer half way which was a 200mi drive round trip. My 1221vs was delivered via UPS after Amazon told me it would be shipped via commercial carrier. There was no visual damage, but there is the slight motor noise. If I buy another one, I'll drive 400mi RT to Sacramento to pick it up and open the box at the store to check for damage. Lathes are heavy so be careful loading and unloading. Better to have helper(s), if you can.

[Reed Gray]

Stan, Jet is not an exclusive brand as in just about any hardware store will carry them, or order them, which might be easier than driving round trip to Sacramento. There is a Woodcraft here in Eugene, but also Ace, Home Depot, and Lowes. All can order Jet for you. I think the same with PM.

robo hippy

[Geoff Whaling]

Tony, for turners starting off there is certainly a confusing array of lathes, tools, and accessories available BUT you have to make a list of priorities of things you want to achieve. Your initial comment covers everything from spindle work to face plate work and no one lathe will preform all of those tasks exceptionally well. The beauty of modern lathes is that most are good general purpose lathes that will handle most tasks and again there is a BUT - some will handle extreemes i.e. small or very big or spindle or face plate work better! One risk though is that general purpose lathes have wide speed ranges that can be a trap for the unwary. Spindle turnings can be safely turned at relatively high lathe speeds however bowls require sensible lathe speed management.

Frankly as a first lathe these days on a modest budget I would be looking for a quality second hand lathe - a 5 or 6 speed belt change lathe from a well known brand. Every turner wants EVS with all the features now so some very good lightly used lathes come available for very good prices. Retro fitting a quality EVS is not difficult and most of the lathes we are talking about are extremely robust and were made from excellent castings (or fabricated in US & CAN) and will out last you.

Next choice for me on a modest budget would be a generic imported lathe with EVS something similar to the Grizzly G0766 (I have absolutely no interest in any brand). These lathes are marketed under many brand names. They offer a host of features at a very reasonable price, have reasonable warranties and will last a reasonable period of time and perform most tasks reasonably well. The key word - reasonable - they are not designed to last your lifetime.

The preferable choice if money was not so tight would be to move on up to a very reputable brand but now you can be talking serious dollars.

I would recommend you work out your priorities first - large or small budget? spindle or bowl? big or small? then find mentor/s or tutor/s who are very good at what you wish to turn and listen to their recommendation. Of course they may have a bias but they will have experience and knowledge & that is valuable stuff.

Brendan Stemp's views are worth watching though the bias i heavily to Vicmarc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuWuZnQuXgA may offer some ideas. Other fairly well done clips there as well.

[James Combs]

I can't really add much to what has already been said and there has nothing been said that I could expressly disagree with so I will just add my thoughts on buying accessories for what ever you end up with. By accessories I mean ones that actually mount to the lathe especially to the spindle, such as collet chucks, scroll chucks, and face-plates. Face-plates less so because one usually comes with the lathe, however if you buy a second one...this applies. Buy all your accessories to fit the typical full size lathe spindle which in most cases is 1-1/4"-8tpi. This is not relevant if you end-up with a full size lathe. However, if you end-up with anything smaller then full size, specifically with something that has a spindle size of less then 1-1/4"-8tpi, 1"-8tpi is very common, buy an appropriate up-adapter "BUSHING" (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/images/prod/400/ts_spi_ada_1_8_tpi_to_1_1-4_8_tpi.jpg) (~$22)to "up" the spindle threads to 1-1/4"-8tpi. If you do this now then a year from now you decide the smaller lathe is just not big enough, not an uncommon scenario seen on this forum BTW, then all your accessories will fit the new full size lathe without having to change chuck inserts or buying a "DOWN-adapter" (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/images/prod/400/ts_spi_ada_1_1-4_8_tpi_to_1_8_tpi.jpg)(~$22) or buying new accessories($$$).

Also note that there is a big difference between up adapter bushings and down adapter spindle extensions, mainly it is that the bushing might add 1/4" or so to your spindle length but the down adapters will add as much as 2-3" to the spindle length which reduces your between center distance by the same amount, for example your big new 1642 lathe is now a 1640 or 1639. In addition in my experience down adapters tend to have more run-out then bushings and if they don't they are a lot more expensive then bushings especially if they maintain a MT1-or-MT2 taper through hole (~$70) (http://bestwoodtools.stores.yahoo.net/prstspadwith.html).

Just some more things to consider.;)

Edit: Oh and I meant to add that I have both a Midi Grizzly(adapted to 1-1/4 BTW) and a Jet 1642 and as far as I am concerned after 4+ years with both, I consider both of them high quality machines. I have had only minor On/Off switch related problems with "both" of them, both were fixed with warranty parts. I think if you do any sort of repair history study on lathes in general, at least on this forum, you will find that O/O switches are the most frequent problem.

[Dale Bonertz]

I agree with quite a bit of what has been said but the last two posts from Geoff and James are very good. A simple answer to your question is the jet 1642 EVS a good choice for an entry level lathe. It is a bit more than what you were hoping to spend but if you want a machine to cover the variety you originally said that lathe will get you off to a good start. It is also a machine you see for sale on forum want adds fairly frequently so you could pick one up for a decent price with patience. Generally these lathes are for sale not because they are bad but because the owner has decide that turning is not his/her cup of tea or they really got the bug and have decided to move up to a larger machine. This lathe will not frustrate you in which you may become disenchanted with turning.

For the record I have never owned one of these lathes nor do I have any interest in the company. I advise this only from reading forum posts for many years and speaking with folks at our annual symposium and talking with my club members. This advice is strictly based on your interest in turning bowls and table legs.

[Tony Cognato]

Wow guys! This is such a great forum. I am new here and truly appreciate the outpouring of advice by so many of you with knowledge and experience. Thanks so much and I will remain diligent in my search. The CL ads in my region have been less than exciting. Plenty of Jet 1236's but mostly overpriced. I will keep looking and reading!

[Bob Dupras]

There are a lot of good comments here so I'll add something a little different. My advice is to buy used. Look at as many options as you can, join a club and try out as many as you can, decide on some that will do the job and then look and be patient. Woodturning is an old guys activity and old guys lose interest or die off so there are always good used lathes on the market. I bought an eight month old Powermatic 3520B for $1800 about six years ago and could probably get close to that now if I sold it. Patience!I've been watching craigslist i about a 500 mile area, and I've only seen 1 powermatic in over a year of watching. I don't remember the model, but I don't think it was a 3520. Finding something good that's used is pretty hard. I do see midi's from time to time.

[Tony Cognato]

You are correct Bob, and if there is anything decent they seem to want a fortune for it.



I've been watching craigslist i about a 500 mile area, and I've only seen 1 powermatic in over a year of watching. I don't remember the model, but I don't think it was a 3520. Finding something good that's used is pretty hard. I do see midi's from time to time.

[jeff oldham]

I have a Rion 70-100 mini lathe and love it,,it's not been too long since I was in the same boat you are and I Decided on the rikon,,,plenty of power;;;my complaint is I wish it was variable speed but if I get a bigger lathe it will have it;;;but I'm well satisfied with it;;

[Dale Bonertz]

There is a Jet 1642 for sale on the AAW forum for $1650.

[Tony Cognato]

Thanks Dale, I went there but I'm not a member so I couldn't access the forums.



There is a Jet 1642 for sale on the AAW forum for $1650.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Did you try to sign up? I don't remember if you need to be an AAW member to join the forum. I believe that lathe is in Indiana. Where are you located?

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

I wish! I am about 30 minutes north of Boston, MA. Space is no issue for me. I would love to buy the be all/end all lathe in the first shot but unfortunately there are too many other matters requiring monetary distribution. Do not know too much about the Grizzlies but it seems like good advice to wait out the new model reviews. If I could get a decent midi for right price to hold me over... hmmmm.


Did you try to sign up? I don't remember if you need to be an AAW member to join the forum. I believe that lathe is in Indiana. Where are you located?

quote from earlier in the thread above

[Doug Ladendorf]

Thanks for the reminder. That's one problem with the phone, it's much harder to scan a thread for info. (Especially when it's a quick break at work!)

[Tony Cognato]

Thanks again. It's looking more and more I may try to swing the $$$ for the new Grizzly 0766. Why take baby steps, right?