Electrical Hookup for Dust Gorilla

[Bob Dean]

I just received my Dust Gorilla and and getting mixed signals from Oneida on how to hook-up the electrical.

It is a 2HP system that draws 11.5 AMPS. One engineer told me to connect 10 Guage wire to a 15 AMP breaker and another told me to use a double pole 20 AMP breaker.

Does anyone have one that is currently connected. I would appreciate the information.

Thanks,
Bob Dean (new member):)

[Rob Russell]

Bob,

Welcome to SMC!

If your new Dust Gorilla truly draws 11.5 amps, then you could run #14 and use a 15 amp breaker. I'd probably run #12 because the larger conductors will run a little cooler but still use the 15 amp breaker. There is no reason to use #10 conductors and it's much stiffer to work with than #12 or #14. Again, if the FLA (Full Load Amperage) draw of the DG's motor is 11.5 amps, then a 15 amp breaker is all you need.

There are a whole bunch of NEC things I could quote, but would frankly rather not type that much right now. :rolleyes:

You don't say whether the DG comes with a cord or not. If it doesn't, the easiest way to provide a "disconnect" is with a plug and receptacle. Personally, I like twistlocks because it's a more secure connection.

Rob
(Addy protocol - experienced, but unlicensed amateur electrician)

[Chris Lee]

I used a double pole 20amp breaker and 12 ga. wire. I thought I read in the manual it said to use a 20amp, but I could be wrong.

Chris

[Bob Dean]

Thanks Rob and Chris for your replys.

The motor does not come with a cord and I will use your advise since I also purchased the remote control which has to plug into a receptacle and the motor plugs into the control unit.

I will probable use a 20 AMP with 12 guage wire from the box.

Bob:)

[Leo Hill]

I just received my Dust Gorilla and and getting mixed signals from Oneida on how to hook-up the electrical.

It is a 2HP system that draws 11.5 AMPS. One engineer told me to connect 10 Guage wire to a 15 AMP breaker and another told me to use a double pole 20 AMP breaker.

Does anyone have one that is currently connected. I would appreciate the information.

Thanks,
Bob Dean (new member):)

Bob, I just finished installing and wiring my BIG yellow DG - about 3 weeks ago.

I hung the motor/fan combo on the wall before looking at the motor name plate and went to the local Big Box store and bought conduit and some 10 ga wire because the manual said to use a 20A 2 pole breaker for the 220V single phase the motor needs.

When I climbed up the ladder to look at the connections, I read the name plate and it indeed says 11.5A full load. Hmmm... I said. No need for 10ga wire - I'll use the 12ga that I have left from other wiring projects. So back to the BB store with the $32 worth of 10ga for a refund.

I ended up using a 20A 2 pole breaker and 12ga wire. I hard-wired my DG and ran 1/2" metal conduit on the wall and flex from the wall to the motor. When (if) I get a remote, I'll take it apart and hardwire it into the circuit, sans plugs.

If you are going to use plugs to connect the remote, might I suggest that you invest in true 20A receptacles and plugs - not that it is strictly necessary for the amps, but rather as one other poster mentioned, things will just run cooler.

But when I pressed the 'GO' button, it did sound impressive as the motor spooled up to RPM. Dang near sucked my arm into the inlet when I put my hand near it. Should work very nicely.

Momma has been away for a few weeks visiting her mother and I took a vacation from the heat and humidity in the garage/shop - but now that she's on the way back it's time to get the ducting ran and actually start collecting chips and dust.


Best,

Leo in San Antonio

[Jeff Bradley]

I having been working to get my dust gorilla up and running for a little bit now. The electrician is coming out tonight to do the hookup so hopefully I will be able to try it out soon. As far as the setup, mine is exactly like Leo's... 20AMP double pole breaker wired with 12GA through 1/2 EMT hardwired to the unit via flexible metal conduit (Greenfield). I actually did all the work and chose all the components but need an electrician to come out and do the final hookup since my city does not allow unlicensed individuals to apply for an electrical permit -- and I want a permit since I am wiring up my entire garage (not just hooking up a DC) so I don't create homeownser's insurance problems for myself in the future. I also purchased a bag gripper and am just hardwiring that as well. The cord just pull into the box that handles the transition from conduit to flexible cable.

While a 20AMP breaker doesn't really seem necessary (15AMP should carry the loads the motor is rated for just fine) I decided to go with the 20AMP just in case and since I am doing all the wiring from scratch is really wasn't any extra effort -- a 20AMP breaker really doesn't cost more than a 15AMP either.

I was originally going to buy a remote setup as well but was actually warned against it by the Oneida sales rep due to the possible interference issues (don't really want my dust collector going on when my neighbor opens his garage) and the fact that a DC really isn't meant to be switched on an off alot -- not too lazy to walk over and hit the magnetic switch that I mounted on the wall near where my workbench will be a couple times an hour anyway.

By the way, I would ignore the guy who told you to run 10GA on a 15AMP circuit as that is just silly. 10GA will carry 30AMPs and would make no sense to use on a 15AMP breaker unless you just want to make things difficult for yourself -- 12GA is much easier to work with.

[Rob Russell]

As far as the setup, mine is exactly like Leo's... 20AMP double pole breaker wired with 12GA through 1/2 EMT hardwired to the unit via flexible metal conduit (Greenfield).

Jeff,

3 posts - welcome to SMC yourself.

What are you using for a disconnect given that you hardwired your DG in?

Rob

[Bob Dean]

Thanks everyone for your input. I am looking forward to getting the Gorilla wired and running.

I will keep you posted.

Bob in Cumming, GA

[Leo Hill]

Jeff,

What are you using for a disconnect given that you hardwired your DG in?

Rob

Such an innocent comment. But I've been thinking about it now for about 6 hours.

Our 220V oven runs off a breaker in the main box as does the 220V AC unit. Same for the 220V fan motor in the gas furnace.

In a previous life I lived on a small "hobby" farm and the irrigation pump had a breaker, but it was 440 3phase and fed directly off the transformer on the pole. But the household 'stuff' was all 220 and fed directly from the breaker box, as does this house.

Now you've got me wondering Rob - should there be something else in the circuit besides the breaker in the main box for all the power to the garage - 50A 220V and a 20A 220V breaker in the sub-box and the magnetic starter that came with the Gorilla. Is there something else that needs to break the circuit?

I ask because your question seems to imply that we've somehow goofed up by hardwiring the DG-DC sytem. And from reading your profile, that says you have some knowledge in electrical systems. <shrug> Please give me your thoughts on this.

Thanks,

Leo in San Antonio</shrug>

[Bill Lewis]

Leo,

In general, it's not a good idea to use a circuit breaker as switching device. Not knowing the specifics, it may also go against code.

[Rob Russell]

The gist of the National Electric Code - as I interpret it - is that:
This is all about motors and motors only. The applicable NEC article is 430 if you want to read all this.
You need a "disconnecting means" for motor loads.
Said disconnecting means "shall be located in sight from the motor location and the driven machinery location".

It's my understanding that a "normal" circuit breaker is not acceptable as the disconnect for anything over 1/8 HP for "stationary" equipment. There is something called a "molded case circuit breaker" (MCCB), but there's one of those things in the used welding pump panel I bought for my phase convertor and it's not the same thing as what we snap into our panelboards. The MCCB in the panel I bought is designed to be a standalone device, not something snapped into a panel.

So - for a stationary motor load, you need a disconnect. "Cord and plug" is the normal means of disconnect that most of us use for our machines. Hopefully we're all in the habit of unplugging a machine and putting the cord in plain view on the machine when we're changing blades, cutters, etc. For a "hard-wired" machine, you need a "disconnecting means" which would be a switch rated for 115% of the motor's FLA (Full Load Amperage) rating and/or a horsepower-rated switch.

For "Stationary Motors of 2 Horsepower or Less", there are 3 additional options:

A general-use switch having an ampere rating not less than twice the full-load current rating of the motor
On ac circuits, a general-use snap switch suitable only for use on ac (not general-use ac–dc snap switches) where the motor full-load current rating is not more than 80 percent of the ampere rating of the switch
A listed manual motor controller having a horsepower rating not less than the rating of the motor and marked "Suitable as Motor Disconnect".


Now - it could be that the circuit breakers we put in our panels are MCCBs and acceptable as "disconnecting means". If those standard breakers are acceptable, it means the panel must be in sight of the motor and machine. Personally, I'd put a safety switch in. They're cheap enough on ebay. Heck - I have a couple I'm not going to need I'd sell dirt cheap.

So - Leo - did this answer your question? FYI, I called my town and asked them if the circuit breakers are considered an acceptable disconnect. I'll post what their answer is.

[Larry Reimer]

As Rob says, what he's talking about here applies to motors. (you'll find different requirements for your cook stove or electric heaters). To add just a bit to Rob's response: NEC 2002 article 430.127 says that the disconnecting means shall be capable of being locked open.

[Leo Hill]

So - Leo - did this answer your question?


Rob - I do appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed answer, but unfortunately one of the drawbacks of this medium is that we can never be sure we are talking apples and apples without lots of back and forth to clarify terms.


So I just kludged a simple drawing in AutoCAD of my DC (Dust Collector) electrical system.


It's all hard-wired at this point. But if a 20A plug and socket would be necessary from the emt conduit box on the wall (where the current flex conduit starts) to the motor then that won't be too much of a problem.


And to address Bill's comment - the magnetic starter is the "switching device," - at least to my understanding. Is my understanding incorrect?


So guys, more insight please - but at this point I'd like to stay with simple words - yes, no, install a plug and socket. All the code quotes have just left more confused than I was when Rob posted that innocent question, " What are you using for a disconnect given that you hardwired your DG in"


Thanks everyone for taking the time to help us (me) ensure we have a safe electrical installation.

Best,

Leo in San Antonio

[Jim Becker]

Leo, since you have the mag switch in there, you are just fine. That's your disconnect!

-------
To the original poster, 20amp circuit with 12 guage wire for my system. I use a contactor to control the unit from a central location in the shop.

[Bill Lewis]

Leo,

Yes the magnetic starter switch is an acceptable dissconnect device. Your initial post only mentioned the system being hard-wired to the panel, which made me think that you were switching with the breaker. I didn't infer from your mention of the "GO" button that you were using the mag switch.
Man, crow sure is tastier in the morning. :)

BTW I have the Oneida 2 HP commercial system and it is wired with 12/2 on a 20 amp breaker. Plug and socket, with a X10 remote. Unfortunately, I got mine only months before they came out with the DG unit, otherwise I would've had a yellow one too!

[Rob Russell]

As Rob says, what he's talking about here applies to motors. (you'll find different requirements for your cook stove or electric heaters). To add just a bit to Rob's response: NEC 2002 article 430.127 says that the disconnecting means shall be capable of being locked open.

I think you'll find that's in the section that applies to "over 600 Volt" installations and wouldn't apply here.

[Rob Russell]

In terms of whether the magnetic starter is considered a "disconnect" - I would say that's a bit touchy.

The magnetic starter is what I would call the "controller" as defined in the NEC.

[430.102] says "An individual disconnecting means shall be provided for each controller and shall disconnect the controller. The disconnecting means shall be located in sight from the controller location."

I read that as saying the mag starter is just your switch for turning the DG on and off and isn't the disconnect.

My town called back and said our typical circuit breakers aren't of the type listed as acceptable disconnects.

I would install a safety switch or cord and plug between the circuit breaker and DG.

FYI, the overload has nothing to do with the disconnecting means - it's purpose is to protect the motor.

Rob
(amateur, unlicensed, homeowner electrician who just likes to work with electrons)

[Jeff Bradley]

Seems like Leo and I are of like mind as my setup is exactly like his. All the wiring in the shop comes from a dedicated sub panel. The circuit that runs to the Gorilla has the magnetic switch Oneida provides in the middle (i.e. between the breaker and the Gorilla motor). I mounted the switch near where my workbench will go whenever I get around to actually building one ;-). Not a huge fan of the magnetic switch as it seems a little cheap (way too much plastic) but I am pretty sure high quality magnetic switches are pretty expensive so this one will be fine for now as it came free with the Gorilla.

I decided to hardwire the Gorilla for a few reasons. First, once it is mounted I don't really ever plan to move it and a plug therefore didn't really seem necessary. Second, high capacity (AMP-wise) sockets and plugs seem to be rather expensive and it didn't seem to be worth the cost given no perceived benefit. I would have wanted a twist-lock plug/socket too which would have probably added to the cost as well. Finally, I also bought the "Bag Gripper" from Oneida which comes with a small air pump that has to be wired into the same "switched" circuit as the Gorilla so that it turns on whenever the Gorilla turns on. Since I have never seen a duplex 220 volt socket and I didn't want to put in another box that had a socket just for the pump, I was going to hardwire it... and if I hardwired it, I might as well hardwire the Gorilla as well. Regardless, the big reason was I never really plan to move it and just see the socket/plug as another link (possible failure point) that really isn't necessary. Have folks found the need to move a large heavy dust collector like the Gorilla often enough that a plug would make sense. Seems like once the ducting is in, the only time you would move it is when you move shops (i.e., sell your house) which isn't something I plan on doing anytime soon. Any other benefits to a plug besides easy moving?

[Leo Hill]

Any other benefits to a plug besides easy moving?

Jeff, If I am reading things correctly, there is some difference of opinion as to what constitutes a "disconnect." The plug would suffice for practical purposes.

But like you, the only time I'll move the unit is when we sell here in SA to move to a retirement place that's lots closer to some water. And I'll have the shop dismantled long before folks start touring the house when it's for sale.

So, for my purposes, I'm going to leave it as I have it and move on to installing the ductwork and then cut some wood. But as always, YMMV.

Best,

Leo in San Antonio

[Rob Russell]

The disconnect has nothing to do with whether you plan to move the machinery or not. It's to provide a means of providing a hard disconnect between the current-carrying conductors of the circuit from the motor/equipment so you can work on the motor controls and/or motor/equipment.

[mike malone]

my gorilla is running on a 20A circuit...I ALSO run my 12" PM72 saw (2hP) on the SAME circuit and have had no problerms yet when they are on at the same time....of course i'm not cutting 3" oak lumber either.
good luck
mike