Slider lengths - too long or too short?

[mark mcfarlane]

For those using sliding table saws:


How big is your shop?
What are you cutting (mostly sheet, mostly solid)?
How long is your slider?
Wish it was longer or shorter?


I certainly see the value in a longer slider, but I'm gonna be space constrained (2 car garage) and can see easily being annoyed walking around the slider all the time, particularly making smaller pieces. in my hobby shop.

[David Kumm]

I've got sliders from 18", 36", 78", and 120". My go to saws are the 120" for sheet goods and 36" for everything else. The 78" also has a shaper and handles 60x60 ply and fits better in the garage shop. The 120" is too big to be handy there. I'm a huge fan of old 36" sliders that lock and then can be used like a traditional fixed saw. Most new short sliders stick out enough in the front to make them hard to use in the traditional way and too short to rip using the slider. A long slider also needs lots of width to handle panels so it really takes up space unless you break it down and can move it. If the slider needs to be moved to use, look for a solid base with heavy steel. Moving a slider can screw up the settings if the build isn't stout. If mainly doing hardwood with an occasional sheet, the short stroke is as handy as a saw gets.313250313251313252313253 The key is for the sliding table to not sit proud of the fixed if short or be long enough to rip from the slider side. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

I use a Striebig, but the shop next door has an Altendorf. Smaller shop at 3000sq/ft. I think their's has to have a 12' capacity

[Gregory Stahl]

My shop is 1200 square feet--looking to double soon.
40% sheet goods, 60% hardwoods
10.5 feet in length (3200mm)
Perfect length. I used a shorter Felder for 5+ years--the 10'+ length I find perfect to maneuver and rip ply lengthwise.

I wouldn't put a saw of this size in a two car garage though. I would probably go to a smaller minimax or Felder/Hammer for a small garage.

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What saw are you considering?

[jack forsberg]

I've got sliders from 18", 36", 78", and 120". My go to saws are the 120" for sheet goods and 36" for everything else. The 78" also has a shaper and handles 60x60 ply and fits better in the garage shop. The 120" is too big to be handy there. I'm a huge fan of old 36" sliders that lock and then can be used like a traditional fixed saw. Most new short sliders stick out enough in the front to make them hard to use in the traditional way and too short to rip using the slider. A long slider also needs lots of width to handle panels so it really takes up space unless you break it down and can move it. If the slider needs to be moved to use, look for a solid base with heavy steel. Moving a slider can screw up the settings if the build isn't stout. If mainly doing hardwood with an occasional sheet, the short stroke is as handy as a saw gets.313250313251313252313253 The key is for the sliding table to not sit proud of the fixed if short or be long enough to rip from the slider side. Dave

+1 i like the older full sized 18" blade sliders with 36" travel for smaller spaces (my bench shop is 1200 sf). I avoid sheet stock as much as possible and do more work than case goods.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwLp_4B45xM

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, small shop in a townhouse basement, equivalent to a single car garage.

Combination of sheet goods and solids with solids at 80% of the use.

51" slider which in the Felder/Hammer range gives you a square saw cabinet without the slider poking out in front. It has great ergonomics, not true for the larger ones.

No, it's exactly the size I want, with exactly the features I want as they're built to order.

it crosscuts sheet goods yet is as compact as a cabinet saw with a 32" rip capacity.

Last year my skinny 28 year old daughter cross cut the solid oak top for the dining table she was making herself with one hand. She couldn't lift the top onto the saw by herself however she sure could crosscut it safely and perfectly squarely. How often will you crosscut stuff bigger than 48"?

Regards, Rod.

[mark mcfarlane]

My shop is 1200 square feet--looking to double soon.
...What saw are you considering?

Right now I'm looking at the Hammer/Felder range. I'm sure I'll check out the Minimax as well. Probably going to get a sliding saw/shaper, and maybe one with jointer/planer. Still 18 months away from purchase (on assignment overseas), but doing my research early. Something around 40" that can be pushed near-flush with the front side of the saw seems like the sweat spot for me. There's no way I can fit a 9-10' slider.

[Jim Andrew]

I have the Hammer 79" slider. If the choicer had been available, would have liked to have gone with 8', so it would have been easier to handle sheets, but I use it most for straight line sawing solid lumber. Near perfect straight edge. I did not like how far the slider extended to the rear, when using it to rip between blade and fence, called Fergus one day, and asked if the latch could be moved, he said to build a outfeed table long enough to enable the table farther ahead, and use a block to stop the slider. Did so and it works great. Much better ripping.Also find it easy to remove the outrigger when not using it, built a fixture to hang it from on the wall. Easy to put on, and take off.

[Roy Harding]

My shop is 1250 sq ft - (25' X 50'). I have a Felder 531P combo machine. The slider has an 84" stroke. I use mostly hardwoods, with the occasional sheet good project. Because mine is a combo, it has a larger footprint as I need to access it from all sides. For the slider I need about 20'. Unless you're doing a lot of sheet goods, a shorter stroke would work well for you - David Krumm above pretty much said anything else I might have.

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Jim and all,

Sorry, but I'm confused. Can you just move the slider flush to the front of the saw and use the slider further extended to the rear as a sort of outfeed support? Of course, this won't support the ripped material in between the fence and the blade, but I don't see how the long slider extended to the rear would do any harm?

[Max Neu]

my shop is 3300 sq. ft, I have a 10' slider, occasionally I wish it was 12', but 95% of the time 10' is just right.I definitely would never go smaller for the kind of work I do (mostly cabinets).

[ian maybury]

Another here with an 8ft Hammer slider in a small shop (3 car garage) with other machines.

The slider length is dead useful - for cutting large sheets, or making long straight edged cuts. It also permits leaving a short mitre gauge and fence in place at one end and the full size cross cut frame at the other - all at once. The first call i guess is whether or not you will have jobs large enough to need the travel at times. The problem with using a track saw to cut up large sheets is that you still need floor space to do this, and it's a PIA to get down to do the work.

It's perhaps less convenient, but possible to work around a long slider, even if you don't always (e.g. when assembling something fairly large in the shop) have the space to run it full travel. Shove it to one end or the other to get by.

Extra length would become a real problem if there were immovable objects that prevented you moving it far enough to either get a job done, or get it out of the way to pass… Getting caught between this and what's needed to do your work might suggest a need for a larger shop...

[Jim Becker]

My (mid-2000s) MiniMax S315WS has an 8'6" slider. Total throw of the wagon is 19'. My shop is 22' deep and 30' wide with an interruption in the middle for a stairway to the building's upper level.

(Pano shots make the shop look a lot bigger than it is)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_3739_zpsyfsgydr5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_3738_zps0ulpjgq9.jpg

[Jim Andrew]

Susumu, what I was referring to was ripping stock that already has a straight edge, between the fence and blade. Not with the slider. I use the slider to get one edge straight, then use the rip fence to cut the other edge. The latch on the slider leaves the slider behind the undercarriage about 7". So what I did to make it easier to reach through between blade and fence was clamp a block on the outfeed table to stop the slider from traveling while I am ripping using rip fence. It lets the slider move about 8" farther.

[Ralph Butts]

I used a 5' Grizzly G0623X within a two car garage. I was cutting maybe a 80/20 percentage of hardwoods to sheet goods. The saw was not big enough to breakdown a sheet of plywood. As I began to work with more sheet goods the process led me to yearn for the both a bigger slider and a larger work area.

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I now have a 1750 sq foot shop with a 10' MM S315 Elite. The ratio of hardwood to sheet goods I now work with is about 65/35 now. I have been very satisfied with the length of stroke on this machine and have not felt that I have needed more.

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[Joe Jensen]

My shop is a 3 car suburban garage which is about 30 feet wide by 20 feet deep. I have a Felder saw / shaper combo with a 2800mm slide. With this slide I can use the fence and clamps on 8 ft sheet goods. I have the saw set so it runs side to side. I'd saw the saw needs 22 ft front to back. You then need 49" to the right of the blade and say you want to trim the end of an 8 ft sheet you need 8 ft to the left of the blade. Basically it needs a lot of room. I spent a lot of time planning the layout. Before the slider all of my tools, (3-5HP cabinet shop grade or better) were in fixed locations. I now have to have the planer, dual drum sander, and work bench on wheels so I can use the shop and then park one car inside when not working.

I would trade off moving tools to get the slider again. I love how easy it is to get large cuts perfectly square.

[Darcy Forman]

I have the Felder KF 500 Saw/Shaper with a 51" slider. Mine is set up in a three car garage. In my small area I have never wished for anything larger. I don't work allot with beet goods, but when I do I rip up against the fence just like you would with any conventional saw.

[mark mcfarlane]

I have the Felder KF 500 Saw/Shaper with a 51" slider. Mine is set up in a three car garage. In my small area I have never wished for anything larger. I don't work allot with beet goods, but when I do I rip up against the fence just like you would with any conventional saw.

Is purple heartwood made from beets?

[Bill Neely]

My shop is a 20x24" building devoted to woodworking; I have a Laguna TSS, I'd like to have a somewhat longer slider - the Hammer with 79" would be perfect for me.

[ian maybury]

An observation - it seems to be that IF you have been used to a good quality US style traditional table saw with a good fence that ripping large sheet goods etc off a similar length fence (in place of using a longer slider) doesn't seem to feel out of place/is familiar. It may however serve as a reason not to use a sliding table panel saw as it's designed to be used too.

Having come from an old Robland combo i never had a very good rip fence anyway - so ripping larger sheets off a fence was always an ordeal.

[John Lankers]

I have a Felder CF 531 in a 3 car garage, ripping on the 80" slider works terrific as well as handling 5 x 5 sheets of BB ply for 4 x 8 sheets it starts to get awkward (I try to use the slider for ripping whenever possible). My next saw will have a 9' slider which only ads about 16" on either end.

[John A langley]

This is a picture of my minimal 315 set up it's basically in a 30 x 40 Area

[Jim Becker]

Susumu, what I was referring to was ripping stock that already has a straight edge, between the fence and blade. Not with the slider. I use the slider to get one edge straight, then use the rip fence to cut the other edge. The latch on the slider leaves the slider behind the undercarriage about 7". So what I did to make it easier to reach through between blade and fence was clamp a block on the outfeed table to stop the slider from traveling while I am ripping using rip fence. It lets the slider move about 8" farther.

My slider has a lock lever on the wagon to keep it from moving during these "more traditional" rip cuts...which for me is only when I'm doing narrow rips of less than about 3". For rips over that, I use the wagon and have a parallel ripping jig I made to insure a uniform width without using the fence. When I do use the rip fence, it's down in the "short" position to insure the hand that's using the push block/stick isn't interfered with by the fence, itself. When down, the fence is only about 1/2" tall.

[Frank Drew]

If mainly doing hardwood with an occasional sheet, the short stroke is as handy as a saw gets.

Totally agree; I got a German 53" crosscut-capacity sliding table saw in the mid-Eighties for my smallish one-man shop, replacing a Powermatic 68 (5 h.p., 12" blade capacity). The PM had plenty of power, and I'd made a crosscut sled for it, but I still found a day for night difference in the ease and especially accuracy of all kinds of cuts with the slider. I mostly worked in solid but crosscutting the occasional sheet of ply was a cinch, and I had a movable outfeed support table for ripping long sheet or solid goods. IIRC, the fence gave me 40" rip capacity, maybe an inch or two more.

I can't say enough good about a sliding table saw.

[Bill Adamsen]

Mark:



How big is your shop?

The shop is two-level 24' x 36' timber-framed barn which is ample for my needs. Each level is about the size of a 3-car garage.




What are you cutting (mostly sheet, mostly solid)?

The slider is used for sheet goods. I also use it for solid wood, but for reasons already listed by others, it is not optimized for solidwood cutting. Primary complaint is that the slider is about 1/3mm higher than the cast iron top and that creates problems for me with certain sized stock (and rips). That is within but at the extreme of the maximum recommended range (0.05 to 0.35 mm) but enough to create problems. If I put the effort into adjusting it would probably work fine and be more versatile. As is, I split the solid wood cutting between the slider and my Unisaw. In reality, I cut about 80-90% solid wood, but when a project requiring sheet goods comes up, the slider is indispensable. I have wondered if I could live with one of the modern track saws.




How long is your slider?

8-1/2 feet stroke with scoring




Wish it was longer or shorter?

Perfect for the sheet goods I cut. I can cut 97" engineered materials with scoring.


I'm about to move my machine to make it more orthogonal in the space. The new location has an almost 10' clear runout (past blade) for sheet goods and a window through which I can pass up to 12" boards to an essentially unlimited length. I have a dado for the machine but I always use my Unisaw for rabbeting and box joints. Most solid wood crosscuts are done on other tools. Make sure your layout accommodates moving (walking) around the machine, setup as you would typically use it. It is a long way around if some protrusion blocks your path. Moving around the shop is not something I would want to plan on doing with my machine (approx. 2700#) every day. I mention only because you indicated the target location was a two-car garage.

[Susumu Mori]

Hi all,

I've never used a slider and am interested in Hammer B3. So, some education would be appreciated here.

When it comes to a narrow rip, I see many comments about sliders but I'm always wondering if the sliders can be used just like a cabinet saw by doing one of the following;

1) when I was using a small table saw, I was standing "behind the fence" to avoid being in a line of fire. I mean, I was standing right side of the blade. Of course, this position won't work for a wide rip, but we can use the slider for wide stuff. So, can we use a sliding table saw for narrow rip just as a cabinet saw by standing behind the fence and push a narrow rip between the blade and the fence by the left hand?

2) or, can't we simply slide the slider flush to the front of the saw? I guess we don't care the slider extends to the rear of the saw?

Sorry, I know Jim was trying to explain me something regarding the point #2, but I didn't quite get it. I know that I'm missing something but can't figure out what....

[Brian W Smith]

40x75+ shop.Panel saw and a "short stroke",custom built slider as an adjunct to a cpl other TS's.I think it's around 36" or so?We designed/built it more from an accuracy standpoint than capacity.

What's that ole song and dance?You'll have to pry from my cold dead fingers.....an XY panel saw.

[Roy Harding]

Hi all,

I've never used a slider and am interested in Hammer B3. So, some education would be appreciated here.

When it comes to a narrow rip, I see many comments about sliders but I'm always wondering if the sliders can be used just like a cabinet saw by doing one of the following;

1) when I was using a small table saw, I was standing "behind the fence" to avoid being in a line of fire. I mean, I was standing right side of the blade. Of course, this position won't work for a wide rip, but we can use the slider for wide stuff. So, can we use a sliding table saw for narrow rip just as a cabinet saw by standing behind the fence and push a narrow rip between the blade and the fence by the left hand?

2) or, can't we simply slide the slider flush to the front of the saw? I guess we don't care the slider extends to the rear of the saw?

Sorry, I know Jim was trying to explain me something regarding the point #2, but I didn't quite get it. I know that I'm missing something but can't figure out what....

When making narrow rips, I use the slider like a cabinet saw - with the exception that I'm standing to the "left" side of the blade, facing it. I'm reaching across the sliding table (which is about 14" wide). This felt, at first, awkward - but I've now become used to it, and using a regular cabinet saw now feels weird. From a safety point of view, this position is safer with regard to kickback (which I've NEVER experienced on the slider, because it's equipped with a riving knife), and more perilous because you're potentially reaching across the blade. I use a push stick which stands about 6" above the material, and the hand is about 12" behind the material, thus you're never actually reaching across the spinning blade - so the danger is minimized. I use the saw like this when making rip cuts less than about 6" in width - anything wider gets clamped to the slider and pushed through without any danger to my ability to count to ten.

I just got up and had a look at the saw with your question in mind - yes, you could still stand in front of the blade like you do on a cabinet saw. In my case, I PROBABLY (it's been a few years) started using my current technique because mine is a combo machine, my dust collection is under the floor, and the port for the jointer dust collection is exactly where my right foot needs to be to comfortably use it as you describe - without that issue, I'd probably still be doing narrow rips the "traditional" way.

[Susumu Mori]

Thanks Roy, but one confirmation;

I don't stand in front of the blade. I stand right of the fence, hiding behind the fense to potentially avoid anything flying. In this way, there is no need to reach over the blade, although pushing the stock by the left hand could be more awkward.

[Peter Kelly]

Narrow parallel rips using only the wagon and not the right-side fence are possible using systems like the ones from Lamb Tool Works: http://www.lambtoolworks.com/products.html

I believe Aigner has a similar product.

[Roy Harding]

Thanks Roy, but one confirmation;

I don't stand in front of the blade. I stand right of the fence, hiding behind the fense to potentially avoid anything flying. In this way, there is no need to reach over the blade, although pushing the stock by the left hand could be more awkward.

I understand what you're saying - on a cabinet saw, I used to stand to the left of the blade, using my right hand to feed the material. Given what you're saying, on my machine, you could still stand in the position you describe, but my dust collection fitting is still in the way - which may not be an issue for you. It's also worth noting that mine is a combo machine, which means that my jointer/planer is in that position, which gives me a wide table, and also a place to stand. I don't know if the same would hold true for a single purpose slider positioned against the wall.

[Susumu Mori]

Thanks Peter,

Yes, I was aware of this product and also the jig Jim Becker posted some time ago. I think it is a wonderful idea especially for stocks that won't require absolute parallel rips (many could fall in this catetory), although it would be still awkward for narrow rips.

By the way, I'm just wondering if we can do this easily if we have two cross-cut fences; just place a stop at the same position in each fence, one with the regular cross-cut fence and the other at the outrigger fence?

[Susumu Mori]

thanks Roy, I got it.

and sorry Mark that I'm jacking your thread....

[ian maybury]

Hi S. Hopefully this may be of value to Mark too. I have Hammer K3 Perform with an 8ft slider.

My preference is to stand to the RHS of the (Incra) rip fence if cutting off it to stay out of the line of fire of any kickback.

It's one obvious downside is that the start button is to the LHS of the (long) slider support section of the cabinet, which means it (and the blade tilt wheel which is in the same area) can be hard at reach over the slider at times. Especially when they are under a dirty great sheet of ply of a decent width of which is supported off the slider. (it's a UK spec K3 Perform saw, don't think it's sold in the US/it's now the lower end Felder model with the Hammer saw spindle - so some models may be laid out differently) There's a project on my list to fit a start button in the area of the blade raise/lower wheel.

Another disadvantage of working from this side is that material that has been cut free can be hard to reach - it'd be tempting to lean over the blade, or at least into the blade area at times rather than to walk around.

There aren't necessarily black and white answers on the 'how to rip' question i think - it depends to a degree on your set up. As Peter it's possible to use parallel bars or if not too precise a Fritz and Franz - but they entail measurement and a little setting up, and you need slider work clamps.

It's nothing to do with having a slider, but the positioning capability of the Incra TS LS rip fence on my K3 enables an almost effortless peeling off of thin strips for e.g. laminations. You basically zero with your first cut, and then use the positioner to move the fence towards the blade by the thickness of the required strip plus the saw kerf for each successive cut. No measuring required, and spot on accurate.

Narrow conventional rips off the fence from narrow stock are possible, but if (as I do) you run with a big bore 100mm top dust guard mounted off the riving knife access can get tight once underneath a specific dimension. (the hood dust connection and the mounting knob stick out a little) A nice thin pusher helps enormously. The real deal for a top guard is probably the ceiling mounted type fitted as standard on higher end e.g. Felder sliders - worst comes to the worst and it can be swung out of the way. That's on my project list...

Stock slider height could for some be a complicating factor - it comes set quite a bit above the saw table. (maybe 0.4mm? or so) There's reason for this, but it can mean that a narow strip being ripped off the slider can be inclined to tip to the right/fall over the step - and may be left unsupported over the 60mm approx gap to the blade. Presuming a well adjusted and accurately flat saw table it's however possible to set the slider a few thou above it so any such tendency is minimal with only a few minor downsides. (the risk is basically that larger pieces if they droop a little or are not straight may catch/drag a bit on reaching the table as the slider carries them forward - but if everything is flat and the leading edge of the table is chamfered a hair it tends at most to need just a little support under the work) This set up may make sense also if you go for a B3 (spindle equipped - an excellent space saver with minimal operating complications it seems) combo - possibly better support when tenoning.

Dado cutting is another consideration. If you want the capability the saw has to be ordered with the spindle/arbour set up to suit. (with extra spacers - it's otherwise too short)

It's possible to fit a zero clearance/cut through throat plate, but it's more complex to make than the typical single tablesaw type.

[Susumu Mori]

thanks Ian, enormously helpful.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Great thread guys! Very informative, as I keep toying with getting a slider. Got one question though.... What do you use a slider with a bigger than 8' stroke? I could see maybe straight lining a board but other than that????

[Peter Kelly]

For those using sliding table saws:


How big is your shop?
What are you cutting (mostly sheet, mostly solid)?
How long is your slider?
Wish it was longer or shorter?


I certainly see the value in a longer slider, but I'm gonna be space constrained (2 car garage) and can see easily being annoyed walking around the slider all the time, particularly making smaller pieces. in my hobby shop.


My shop is the lower level of a 16' D x 26' W bank barn
50% sheet goods, 50% solid wood
5' stroke MiniMax SC2 Classic
I don't wish it were longer. The shop is a bit on the small side anyway so I'm at the maximum length I can do. Sheet materials get broken down with the track saw in the upstairs space then brought down to the shop for final sizing and squaring. I had a 3200mm (10'-6") slider years ago and don't miss it much. Nice to have but not something you'll absolutely need unless you're breaking down panels all day and have a scissor or forklift for loading. The Festool saw packs away nicely when I don't need it.


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[ian maybury]

On more than an 8ft stroke. I don't know for sure Jesse, but it's certainly very handy to be able to load a complete 8 x4 and rip it lengthwise if you use ply to any degree. There are work arounds as Peter. There are larger stock sheets too.

Bear in mind that in the case of Hammer the quoted slider length is the actual length, and not the capacity. If you want to accommodate e.g. an 8ft panel (or whatever) that you ideally would have a slider enough longer so that there is extra room for a hold down clamp, for the cross cut fence etc. With the required dimension free in between.

It's got to be a big help if you know exactly what dimension material you may want to handle. Sliders i guess basically have their big application in Europe as panel saws. That said having even a much shorter slider adds some very nice capabilities. Having an accurate slider was new to me, but I have to say i'm a fan...

[David Kumm]

If you are ripping even 8' ply, 9-10' is the preferred size, with 10' being better. The fence and clamps need the extra room and it is handy to have that extra when moving the ply from rip to crosscut. The extra length allows you to turn the ply without an edge running off the end of the table. hard to explain until you use it. There are videos including the Airtightclamp ones that show why. As I've said before, I like either short 36-48" sliders or long 10' ones. you get what you can fit in the shop and not go crazy walking around but every saw is great for something and a compromise for other things. Set your priorities. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Great thread guys! Very informative, as I keep toying with getting a slider. Got one question though.... What do you use a slider with a bigger than 8' stroke? I could see maybe straight lining a board but other than that????

Larger sizes of sheet goods. They don't just come in 8 foot lengths.............Rod.