Exterior Door Finish

[Gary Muto]

I read through some of the older threads on Exterior Door Finishes. It appears that Epiphanes Clear High gloss is a favorite. I saw very little about General Finishes products and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience to share about GF Ext 450 or any other waterbased choices.

I have a customer with a south facing wood door that I will look at next week. He claims his original finish has lasted 15 years and that the door is not really protected from the sun. It is now cracking and peeling so I suspect that I will have to strip the existing finish.

I would like to ask at least 3 questions of this group:

How long do you think GF Ext 450 would last in this setting? In Colorado Springs BTW.
What is your recommendation and how long do you expect it to last in that environment?
Do Strip the finish or do I have to sand it?

I will post photos after Wednesday when I see the door. I was just hoping to provide a guidance quote on my first visit.

[Gary Muto]

Interesting, 100+ views and no comments. Maybe there is nothing new to say... I'll post my info and plan in case this helps anyone else.

I talked to some local professionals and they tend to agree that the General Finishes Exterior 450 will last 5-7 years even facing South in Southern Colorado. The marine varnishes may be better but I would not be able to state any specifics to the customer. The price using Marine Varnish would also be quite a bit higher due to the extended drying time requiring door removal and/or transporting the door to my shop. It also appears that water tends to cause failure as much or more than the sun. This was a surprise to me and looking back it is evident on the current door that I am refinishing.

The recommendation was to use General Finishes sanding sealer after staining but before finishing. It is a water based Pre Catalyzed product so I was a little surprised here too. My plan is to apply the sanding sealer on the door over the General Finishes Gel stain (I let that dry for a week). I will cover all of the edges too. After that, I will top coat with two coats of GF Ext 450.

[John TenEyck]

I've used a lot of Epifanes for outdoor furniture. It's pretty thick after you apply the required 7 coats, stays soft for a long time, and would not be my choice for an exterior door. It also needs to be refreshed at least every 2 or 3 years. I've never used GF's 450 Exterior but know a guy at 10,000 ft in Teller County Colorado who swears it will last 5 - 7 years in the sun there. Another Creeker did his door with it a couple of years ago and had all kinds of good things to say about it. His door sure looked nice with it. All said and done, I plan to use GF 450 for my exterior door when I get around to building one.

John

[Gary Muto]

John,

Thanks for replying. I'm due east of Teller County and 2500 feet lower. The feedback from a couple of professionals here and from General Finishes is 5-7 years so there is good consistency in the replies. I'm going with the Ext 450 satin finish. I think I'm going to skip the sanding sealer though. None of the General Finishes documentation recommends it.

By the way, I'm a native of Western NY (Rochester).

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi john,I have used the Gf 450 finish on a outdoor table that sits under a patio cover still gets partial sun.Havent heard any feedback from my customer it's been only couple years.
From what I remember it was very easy to build up the coats.
So I can't really give Ya two thumbs up for use on a door.Hope this helps a little.Aj

[Dan Wiese]

Gary, I am by no means an expert finisher but I did use epiphanies clear high gloss on my north facing mahogany door here in Wichita Ks. The original door finish (no idea what manufacturer used) lasted 6 years but was severely checked. I sanded the door to bare wood, restained it and put on 6 coats of epiphanies lightly sanding between each coat and it still looks new after 8 years. I've never used anything as thick as epihanies and it was not easy to brush but it leveled out perfectly. I definitely will use it again if the need arises. The north door doesn't get a lot of sun but it gets plenty of rain and snow on it and they don't phase the varnish. Good luck with your choice as you don't want to have to do it often.

[Gary Muto]

Hi Dan,

I'm still learning too. Thanks for your info. I heard from 2 pros that water/snow/ice is harder on the doors than the sun. It was a surprise to me but I believe it looking at this first door I'm working on. The door faces north at this current house. The bottom of the door and sidelights has taken a beating. I haven't seen the south facing door yet though.

Today's update,
I used GF 450 Ext today on the first door project. It was barely over 60 F and it was drying quick. I was able to get two coats on in 3 hours. I skipped the sanding sealer and I'm glad I did because that dries even faster. I think I will add a little extender or H2O to slow the drying. Any recommendations there?

[John TenEyck]

Gary, the extender would be a better choice than water. Also, I'm not sure what the lower cure temp. is for GF 450 but 60F may be cutting it close.

John

[Gary Muto]

John,

Thanks. I confirmed with GF that 60F was OK. It is the lower limit. I got the third coat on today. I used extender and the 3rd coat went on really nice. It dried fast but I wasn't struggling to keep a wet edge. It might be me but this finish in Satin seems more shiny than the satin high performance Poly or the satin Pre Cat Urethane made by General Finishes. Have you guys noticed that? Anyway, my customer is very happy, thrilled actually. Next week I will install the seals and the storm door and call it done.

Thank you John and the others for your comments. I will be sticking with Exterior 450 for entry doors.

[Alan Lightstone]

I have used both Epiphanes and GF 450 in South Florida subjected to constant sun. The GF 450 is on a cover for a fire pit that faces upward, and has sun for the entire day. It looks better in 2 years than my front door which I applied Epiphanes High Gloss to.

Small sample size, but rough outdoor conditions. FWIW.

[Robert LaPlaca]

For those that have used the GF 450 product does the product have any color, as most water based products are pretty colorless ? Can you tint it with the GF 450 exterior wood stain? I know the Epifanes is a pretty dark amber color, the door that I want to re-coat could use a touch more color..

[Gary Muto]

I have used both Epiphanes and GF 450 in South Florida subjected to constant sun. The GF 450 is on a cover for a fire pit that faces upward, and has sun for the entire day. It looks better in 2 years than my front door which I applied Epiphanes High Gloss to.

Small sample size, but rough outdoor conditions. FWIW.

Alan,

That's quite an endorsement. One which I will keep in mind when discussing with customers. It's amazing how waterborne products have improved.

[Gary Muto]

For those that have used the GF 450 product does the product have any color, as most water based products are pretty colorless ? Can you tint it with the GF 450 exterior wood stain? I know the Epifanes is a pretty dark amber color, the door that I want to re-coat could use a touch more color..

Robert,

I believe that Ext 450 dries totally clear. It is milky in the can and has a blue tint (UV inhibitors??) but even the drips on a mat dry clear. My only concern is that the Satin has more sheen that I would expect. I believe that it is shinier than any satin interior product that I have used. I'm curious what other may think about that.

[Gary Muto]

I completed the door refinishing. I washed and sanded the door 120, 150, 180 and 220. I then stained it with General Finishes Gel Stain (American Oak). After that I applied one coat of GF Sanding sealer followed by 2 coats GF Ext450 (outside) and GF High Performance Poly (inside). I learned at our convention that GF reformulated it and added a cross linker (and UV inhibitor as John mentioned previously).
Before Inside, Before Outside, After Inside, After Outside
316728316729316730316731
The customer thinks the door looks like new. Not quite but it cam out well. Thanks to everyone for their input.

[Alan Lightstone]

Gary:

I'm curious why you used different finishes inside and outside. I could see using the outside for both, whichever finish you chose for the UV blocking properties.

[Gary Muto]

Gary:

I'm curious why you used different finishes inside and outside. I could see using the outside for both, whichever finish you chose for the UV blocking properties.

Alan,

Good question. I'm not sure I have a good answer but I'll tell you why I did it. The GF HP Poly has UV protection but I'm sure it is comparable to GF Exterior 450. The Exterior 450 is not as hard so it is better for exterior use. This is arguably not an issue with a Fiberglass door but I didn't want to chance it since the door faces south and gets really hot. Lastly, I previously added extender to the container of Exterior 450 that I had and I wanted to keep this project moving so I thought the GF HP Poly straight would help keep things moving.

Do you think I was overly cautious?