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View Full Version : For those who love Laserbits, beware



Kev Williams
05-05-2015, 9:22 PM
Got on ebay last week to buy another 500 gram bottle of Cermark.
I noticed Laserbits was selling the bottle for essentially the same price
I'd paid before, and they seem well liked here on the board, so, I gave
them $250 of my hard earned cash...

Well, today I opened the box, and retrieved the bottle, and was
immediately disgusted with what I got...

I've bought 2 of these 500 gram jars in the past. Both of them were
filled with Cermark that had the consistency of warm honey.
I'm sure many of you will agree, this is normal, yes?

And as of now I haven't even opened the bottle, or the sealed bag it's in.
All I've done is shake the bottle. As Mike Null is always saying, you want
Cermark to be about the consistency of 2% milk to airbrush it. Just based
on shaking this bottle, instead of warm honey, t's about the consistency
of chocolate milk. Someone's already pre-thinned it for me, and I'm
not the least bit happy about it. :mad:

From my last 2 bottles of Cermark, I make a 'premix' of about 4 parts DNA to
1 part Cermark. From THERE I cut it again by more than 50%, I fill my airbrush
bottle to just under half, and top it off with DNA. At WORST I'm thinning this
stuff at an 8 to 1 ratio...

The bottle I got today, I'll be lucky if it can be thinned at 2 to 1 before it's
too thin to spray. For $250, I feel I've been robbed.

I made a video, it's uploading to YouTube as I type this. I won't bother posting
a link to it in case it's not allowed. If it is, I will.

Maybe this is an anomaly, I don't know. I just know that my previous 2 bottles
were nice & thick & gooey and I got my money's worth. Not this time...

Dave Sheldrake
05-05-2015, 9:34 PM
I have a tub of the stuff here somewhere Kev (I don't do any coating type engraving) mine looks like paint that has hung around for ages, is that the same?

Michele Welch
05-05-2015, 9:42 PM
Kev, I think you'll find that Laserbits is a WONDERFUL company to work with and will make right any order they've processed. Don't write them off without even talking with them. They are very knowledgeable and will go the extra mile to make right anything that's wrong. It could just be a bad batch.

Bert Kemp
05-05-2015, 10:25 PM
Kev send it back or send it to me and I'll take it back 4 you. I don't live to far from their warehouse been there a few times I order online then just drive down and pick it up saves me shipping.

Gary Hair
05-05-2015, 11:25 PM
Next time check JDS - they have a 250g tub for much less than $250. I won't post the price here since you have to be a customer to see the price, but rest assured it's less than Laserbits, plus, they won't rob you on the shipping like Laserbits will.


Got on ebay last week to buy another 500 gram bottle of Cermark.
I noticed Laserbits was selling the bottle for essentially the same price
I'd paid before, and they seem well liked here on the board, so, I gave
them $250 of my hard earned cash...

Well, today I opened the box, and retrieved the bottle, and was
immediately disgusted with what I got...

I've bought 2 of these 500 gram jars in the past. Both of them were
filled with Cermark that had the consistency of warm honey.
I'm sure many of you will agree, this is normal, yes?

And as of now I haven't even opened the bottle, or the sealed bag it's in.
All I've done is shake the bottle. As Mike Null is always saying, you want
Cermark to be about the consistency of 2% milk to airbrush it. Just based
on shaking this bottle, instead of warm honey, t's about the consistency
of chocolate milk. Someone's already pre-thinned it for me, and I'm
not the least bit happy about it. :mad:

From my last 2 bottles of Cermark, I make a 'premix' of about 4 parts DNA to
1 part Cermark. From THERE I cut it again by more than 50%, I fill my airbrush
bottle to just under half, and top it off with DNA. At WORST I'm thinning this
stuff at an 8 to 1 ratio...

The bottle I got today, I'll be lucky if it can be thinned at 2 to 1 before it's
too thin to spray. For $250, I feel I've been robbed.

I made a video, it's uploading to YouTube as I type this. I won't bother posting
a link to it in case it's not allowed. If it is, I will.

Maybe this is an anomaly, I don't know. I just know that my previous 2 bottles
were nice & thick & gooey and I got my money's worth. Not this time...

Mike Null
05-06-2015, 8:00 AM
All the Cermark I've purchased has been the consistency of molasses, thick and slow running.

I would think Mike Fruciano at Laserbits will exchange it for you. He is a member here.

Tim Bateson
05-06-2015, 8:39 AM
Sorry to stray from the topic but...


Next time check JDS... ...plus, they won't rob you on the shipping like Laserbits will.

Really? For the past 7.5 years I've bought from both & that statement has never been true. Just the opposite... or close to the same. I can't get a paperclip shipped from JDS without a $11.00-$13.00 shipping charge.

Mike Troncalli
05-06-2015, 8:42 AM
Kev, I think you'll find that Laserbits is a WONDERFUL company to work with and will make right any order they've processed. Don't write them off without even talking with them. They are very knowledgeable and will go the extra mile to make right anything that's wrong. It could just be a bad batch.

I'm with Michele,
I think it's a bit early to be bashing a company like this.. I have never had a problem with Laserbits. I had a bad item once and called them.. It was replaced immediately without any problems... There is no way that they can open every bottle of product and decide if it is a good batch or not before sending it to you...

Scott Shepherd
05-06-2015, 9:53 AM
Really? For the past 7.5 years I've bought from both & that statement has never been true. Just the opposite... or close to the same. I can't get a paperclip shipped from JDS without a $11.00-$13.00 shipping charge.

Really? We just ordered 30 sheets of Rowmark and it was $12.40 in shipping. I thought that was cheap, considering the weight. Maybe it's worth a chat with your rep to find out what the deal is.

Tim Bateson
05-06-2015, 9:56 AM
Really? We just ordered 30 sheets of Rowmark and it was $12.40 in shipping. I thought that was cheap, considering the weight. Maybe it's worth a chat with your rep to find out what the deal is.

You would pay the same for one 1/4 sheet.

Tony Lenkic
05-06-2015, 10:38 AM
Kev,

If you are buying Cermark in paste container it should not be tinned at all by supplier.

Scott Shepherd
05-06-2015, 10:38 AM
You would pay the same for one 1/4 sheet.

Actually, I don't. I ordered 100 magnets a couple days ago and it was like $9 in shipping.

Gary Hair
05-06-2015, 10:48 AM
Products
------------------------------------------------------
2 x RUS 009 - Maxum 2 Ink Refill - Red - 5 Pk (RUS 009) = $21.78
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $21.78
United Parcel Service (Ground): $10.86
Total: $32.64

These things weighed about 3 ounces at the most - does that shipping seem fair? and they charged $12.29 two years later for the exact same order! I have since switched my customer over to a different brand stamp just to save money on the refills.



Sorry to stray from the topic but...



Really? For the past 7.5 years I've bought from both & that statement has never been true. Just the opposite... or close to the same. I can't get a paperclip shipped from JDS without a $11.00-$13.00 shipping charge.

Mike Null
05-06-2015, 11:30 AM
Well, now that Tim has changed the subject of this thread:eek: I'll join in. Tim, you and I must pay a residential surcharge from UPS. That becomes especially high if you're in a rural area. But for smaller orders from JDS my shipping costs are excessive and I drive out to their warehouse to pick up my orders to save the cost

Kev Williams
05-06-2015, 11:31 AM
Next time check JDS - they have a 250g tub for much less than $250. Might be a typo Gary, but I'm buying 500g bottles.

My first 2 bottles came from engraversnetwork.com via ebay, $246 total for the last one. This bottle cost me $251 total. That much difference is negligible to me. Shipping costs notwithstanding ;)

And yes I probably shouldn't be "bashing" Laserbits, and I'm sure they'll make this right.

The first video I made was long and less than nice- so I made a second 'more to the point' vid--


https://youtu.be/onvOjdjNk2c

Gary Hair
05-06-2015, 11:52 AM
Might be a typo Gary, but I'm buying 500g bottles.

Yep, I meant $250 for a 500g tub. You can find it for about $11 dollars cheaper than you found on ebay...

Scott Shepherd
05-06-2015, 12:03 PM
I watched your video Kevin, with the sound off, so I didn't hear what you said, but it's always been my understanding that Cermark, when packaged, has a fair amount of liquid it in. However, the longer it sits, the liquid evaporates and it becomes what we typically get in the can you dumped out into the lid, a thick, milkshake like liquid. I suspect if you left the top off the one you just got, in a day, it would look just like the others.

Matt McCoy
05-06-2015, 12:23 PM
Does it separate? Maybe it just needs to be mixed well?

Steve McKee
05-06-2015, 12:32 PM
Part of the problem with excessive freight charges are now courtesy of UPS(I think FedEx also has a similar charge). UPS now has what they call "dimensional weight". Basically what it boils down to is if the weight of your package is less than they feel it should be, based on the dimensions of the package, they will charge you the dimensional weight fee. I've sent out packages recently that when I entered the weight, say 2 pounds, and the dimensions of the package I was charged at the 4 pound rate. Seems fair to me as I have total control over what something weights and/or it's dimensions...NOT!

Their justification is due to some shippers who will ship an order in a standard sized box no matter what the size of the item is. I've experienced it, and I'd bet a lot of you have as well. Order something that would fit in a Small Priority Mail USPS Box, for example, and receive it in a box big enough for something 5 times that size. I guess that means they can't get as many packages in their trucks, planes, etc.

Somewhat along the same line, I received notice from the company I get my boxes and other shipping supplies from and usually just go pick up instead of having them shipped. They are going to start charging a $25.00 fee if you pick up your order and it is under $300.00. The justification for that charge is to cut down on the congestion on their docks. Funny thing is I typically pick up my orders on Saturday mornings and, for the most part, the employees are all standing around looking for something to do, and I'm usually the only customer there. Not sure how that makes any difference. Guess I'll just have to be sure I order more than $300.00 worth from now on.

Steve

Kev Williams
05-06-2015, 1:12 PM
I watched your video Kevin, with the sound off...- you need the sound on so you can hear me shake the bottle. What's in the bottle now weighs 500 grams. If enough DNA evaporated off to where the consistency was like it should be, the remainder would likely weigh less than 200 grams. And to get that much DNA to evaporate, I'd have to leave the cap off for days. With the cap on, never gonna happen...

Scott Shepherd
05-06-2015, 1:21 PM
Gothca. I've always felt that the grams was done at the time of packaging. I've never thought I've received as much as should be in there. I've had 500 gram bottles that are about 1/4" full when I get them. I suspect they were 500 grams when packaged.

Matt McCoy
05-06-2015, 2:36 PM
...They are going to start charging a $25.00 fee if you pick up your order and it is under $300.00. The justification for that charge is to cut down on the congestion on their docks. Funny thing is I typically pick up my orders on Saturday mornings and, for the most part, the employees are all standing around looking for something to do, and I'm usually the only customer there. Not sure how that makes any difference. Guess I'll just have to be sure I order more than $300.00 worth from now on.

Steve

I received that same email this morning. My experience mirrors yours and others have also shared the same impression on the internet today.

Kev Williams
05-06-2015, 2:56 PM
disclaimer: going from memory, so the dates might not be totally accurate ;)

When me & Vickie met back in 1991, she worked for UPS as a tracing clerk...

In 1990 her xmas bonus was like $1200, her medical was 100% and totally free
In 1991 her xmas bonus was like $500, medical the same
In 1992 her xmas bonus was zero, medical remained the same...
In 1994, still no bonus, and suddenly she had to choose a medical plan.
Somewhere in '94 to 'compensate' for no xmas bonus, grunt employees were
offered an incentive "points" plan, the more production, the more points you earned.
Within about 14 months, the wife earned enough points to get us a $1400
Kenmore side-by-side refrigerator. I'm sure other employees benefited quite well...
In 1996, incentive program cancelled. Medical was now choose how much to pay for
how much coverage--
etc etc...

The reason for the grunt employees dwindling bennies? To keep the union paid drivers
happy and avoid a strike. That worked well until 1997 when the infamous UPS strike happened.

Things have changed little, except the excuses. Congestion on the docks? Puh leezze.
They simply want more money...

AL Ursich
05-06-2015, 3:26 PM
Any chance the bottles were "returns"... Someone sent back thinned stuff.... for a full refund... I saw it at the Lumber Yard that I worked at once... with poly finish... added thinner to fill the can back up... a fail....

Kev Williams
05-06-2015, 5:33 PM
Very possible...

Like my kids in the old days who would drink from our liquor bottles & top 'em off with water.
But we kept our bottles in the freezer. And the water they added would freeze into ice crystals..
These would be the same kids who "know everything". Uh-huh...

Jeanette Brewer
05-08-2015, 12:48 PM
Kev,

As others have suggested, an email or call to LaserBits is in order. I'd really be shocked if they didn't remedy this situation for you immediately. Keep us posted after you talk with them! (Sorry, if I missed an update in this thread. I got a little lost w/ the subject change...) :(

Jeanette Brewer
05-08-2015, 12:54 PM
Next time check JDS - they have a 250g tub for much less than $250. I won't post the price here since you have to be a customer to see the price, but rest assured it's less than Laserbits, plus, they won't rob you on the shipping like Laserbits will.


Gary,

Per a conversation I had (at least a year ago) with a CerMark supplier, Ferro requires all distributors to sell CerMark at the same price point. The 500g jar at JDS or LaserBits (or other) is the same. Seems like that agreement/settlement ends soon but, as of now, all pricing is still the same.

Gary Hair
05-08-2015, 3:30 PM
Gary,

Per a conversation I had (at least a year ago) with a CerMark supplier, Ferro requires all distributors to sell CerMark at the same price point. The 500g jar at JDS or LaserBits (or other) is the same. Seems like that agreement/settlement ends soon but, as of now, all pricing is still the same.

Maybe they meant the advertised price? I know for a fact that they all sell it for different prices as I have sourced it through four different resellers and they are all different. I won't post them here, but let it suffice to say that they are not exactly mom and pop shops.

Mike Null
05-08-2015, 4:01 PM
I found differing prices as well.