16ga vs. 18ga Nailer for Pine Trim Work...

[Bill Rodgers]

Hi guys. I have a bunch of baseboard, door, and window trim/casing to install all pine and 2 rooms to install tongue and groove paneling in next month. I don’t have much experience with nail guns but am going to buy one for this.

What size nail/brad gun should I get to do both? I’m thinking either a 16 gauge or 18 gauge?

Thanks for any feedback.

[Mike Ontko]

Hi Bill,

I don't know whether your question can be answered direclty. Both of the tasks you've mentioned would require different length and guage nails, unless the panelling you're referring to is made from 3/4" stock and not 1/4" sheet panelling.

For the molding and casing work, I would use a 16 guage nailer with 2" to 2-1/2" nails that can reach through the drywall and sink into the framing underneath. For outside corners on crown molding and potentially on door and window casings, I'll even use an 18 guage nailer for pinning the mitered corners together, if needed while the glue dries.

I'm mainly experienced with the removal of sheet panelling, where adhesive and ring shank nails appear to have been a preference in the past. I've installed a T&G looking sheet product as a wainscot, and it can go in with short 18 guage brads and a good panelling adhesive.

(disclaimer - I'm not a professional contractor, though I've renovated 2 homes...and slept in a Holiday Inn once or twice :rolleyes:)

[lowell holmes]

As Mike said, 16 ga X 2 to 2 1/2" nails for base board and door casing, except shorter nails for the casing to door frame.

18 ga. is used for lighter trim. In the spirit of our hobby, you need one of each.

[Jerry Olexa]

I recently used 23 g on some trim and the brads virtually disappear vs. using a 16g or 18g..

[John R Green]

16 ga 2"

[Bill Stephenson]

New woodwork in living room & dinning room,all oak used 16 ga. I have 18 but it was to light for the work.

[Jim Dwight]

I put baseboard and casing in about 800 square feet of our house over the last year using nothing but my Ryobi 18 gauge brad nailer (battery powered). I mostly used 2 inch brads. The base was mostly low density fiberboard but some was finger jointed pine. The casing was all finger jointed pine (it is all painted). I have pneumatic 16 and 18 gauge and also a 23 gauge pinner. I used the pinner on the returns for the casing under the windows.

The 16 gauge would be more reliable to hold trim in place but the 18 gauge worked fine for me and makes a smaller hole that is easier to fill for painting.

If you have a compressor, pneumatic nailers are inexpensive (especially HF). If you don't already have a compressor, the Ryobi is an option. They sell a 16 gauge too, but at over $100 each, it costs more to add devices than it would with pneumatic ones.

[Tom Ewell]

Get 15,16,18,23 gauges and you're covered for most all trim needs.
You can get by pretty well with 16,18
You can make do with 18 2" capacity
Grab some 2p10, fav wood glue, const adhesive and put in the kit as well.

[Keith Weber]

I've done many miles of pine trim. Pine is a very soft wood. I find that the 18-gauge nails are too fine and will pull through the soft wood. It makes a smaller hole, but you end up putting a lot more holes in to get the same holding power as I get with my 15-gauge nailer. The 18-gauge nails will twist up like a pretzel if you hit a hard knot in pine as well. When it does, it'll mangle the soft wood around it. It's very rare that I have a 15-gauge nail reverse directions on me. An 18-gauge has its place, but in my opinion, it's in the case at home when you're working with pine trim.

If you're painting, the larger hole won't make the slightest difference. I apply a bit of spackle applied with a 1/2" x 2-1/2" strip of plastic cut out of one of those clear plastic packaging jobs that gets you cursing when trying to rip it open. It leaves the spackle flush. If you use your finger, the flex in your finger will leave it slightly below flush, leaving a dimple. Spackle will swell ever so slightly, so the next day, one or two light brushes with some 180 or 220 grit sandpaper, and you'll never see the holes after painting. Don't use wood filler. It's too hard when sanding in pine.

Also get a nail gun that uses nail strips with angled nails. You'll be able to get into a lot tighter spaces than with a 90-degree nailer like the 18-gauge variety.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Get 15,16,18,23 gauges and you're covered for most all trim needs.
You can get by pretty well with 16,18I hate it when someone asks a simple this or that question & gets an answer that says you really need this that & the others....
But...

Tom is pretty much spot on. There is no one "perfect nailer". Each one has it's place.
Nothing is more frustrating than having to stop before you start, and run out to get a tool more suited to the job because the one you planned on using isn't working out.

[Jim Dwight]

I hate it when someone asks a simple this or that question & gets an answer that says you really need this that & the others....
But...

Tom is pretty much spot on. There is no one "perfect nailer". Each one has it's place.
Nothing is more frustrating than having to stop before you start, and run out to get a tool more suited to the job because the one you planned on using isn't working out.

While I agree that each nailer has it's place, and I own all but the 15 gauge (and a framing nailer and staplers) I don't agree this is one of the "run to the store" risk situations. I put up a casing that is 1 inch thick at the outside. So I have occasionally used my 16 gauge finish nailer with 2 1/2 nails to reach the studs. But I found it worked fine to nail through a thinner section of the casing (and that is where the studs were) so the 18 gauge worked. If you want to be safe putting up trim, a 15 or 16 gauge nailer with a selection of nails will do it. 1 tool. I can and have used nothing but a 18 gauge. I think the OP will eventually want more pneumatic tools but a finish nailer is a good place to start.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I don't agree this is one of the "run to the store" risk situations.Well, as the owner of a few 18 ga. brad nailers, some 1.25" and one 2" and a couple nail/staple combinations - a couple of framing nailers, a palm nailer, a flooring nailer/stapler, a 16 ga straight and a 15 ga angled - - - - plus the requisite manual hammers.... we're going to have to agree to disagree.

It's all about having the right tool to do the job - - and - - all it takes is one bad experience to send you out the door running to pick up the right tool...

These days, I prefer to calmly browse the best deals beforehand, buy what I will need when the price is right rather than run out in a panic once the work is underway ;).

[Jim Becker]

For light trim, I use a 23 gage pinner if glue is involved. For other trim, I'll use an 18 gage brad nailer for the lighter stuff and my 15 gage angle nailer for heaver trim...the bigger fastener head has better holding power. I do not own a 16 gage brad gun.

[Ole Anderson]

My old Bostitch 18 ga only takes brads up to 1-3/8", but it has served me well for all of my base and casing trim, but then all of my trim is Oak or Hickory. I don't have a 16 ga gun, but my 15 ga gun IMO is too big for that work. It does work fine though for installing door jambs. There are times, using 3/4" thick trim and 1/2" drywall that the short 18 ga brads are just too marginal and I wish I had the new 18 ga gun that takes 2" brads. I have the 23 ga pinner, but haven't tried it on anything but very small trim. My trim is all stained and with the 18 ga used on the base, I don't feel that it needs filler to hide the holes. With the 15 ga, yes, then it needs filler. For casing work at eye level, everything gets filled.

[Phil Thien]

I use the Ryobi 18V stuff. I have the brad nailer:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-AirStrike-18GA-Cordless-Brad-Nailer-Tool-Only-P320/203810823

They also have now introduced an 18V 16-gauge nailer:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-AirStrike-16GA-Cordless-Straight-Finish-Nailer-Tool-Only-P325/204667878

I'll probably get one of those, too.

I also have pneumatic stuff (quality, Bostitch gear) that I'd use if I were doing a lot of nailing. But most of my work is trimming out a window or two, or a door (or two). So the cordless is handy for that.

[Bill Rodgers]

Thanks for all the responses guys. From what I gather, best to have 2 guns... 1 for the heavier work and 1 for the lighter. For the casing and molding work most have recommended the 16ga but Keith Weber says 15ga and he has a lot of experience with pine. I'm going to be working with custom 1x4 pine baseboard trim and sawn 3/4" thick pine door trim. Should I get a 16ga or 15ga gun? Thanks again!

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for all the responses guys. From what I gather, best to have 2 guns... 1 for the heavier work and 1 for the lighter. For the casing and molding work most have recommended the 16ga but Keith Weber says 15ga and he has a lot of experience with pine. I'm going to be working with custom 1x4 pine baseboard trim and sawn 3/4" thick pine door trim. Should I get a 16ga or 15ga gun? Thanks again!

I think Tom Ewell nailed it in his post:

Get 15,16,18,23 gauges and you're covered for most all trim needs.
You can get by pretty well with 16,18
You can make do with 18 2" capacity
Grab some 2p10, fav wood glue, const adhesive and put in the kit as well.


16 will be fine on 1x4 pine base. I'd get a 16 and 18, and I'd add a 23 (pinner) before adding a 15.

[Tom Ewell]

My primary 15ga gun is round head, use it for door jambs, wide 4/4 whatever trims and the odd staircase with 5/4 treads. I can also go with stainless for exterior work, it'll do brickmolds and 5/4 quite handily.
Put up a lot of 3/4 stuff with this gun, holds well and yes, filling of the 'holes' takes more time.... just like 8d and larger manual fastners used to.

My primary 16ga gun is the Paslode gas fired, real handy and use it for most baseboards, wide casings and can get away with int door jambs with a few more 'stitches'. This gun uses the typical 'rectangular' fasteners which do not hold (clamp) as well as round heads, easier to fill and can handle 3/4 stuff if movement of the trim is expected to be minimal (well dried and primed/sealed on both sides for example). Biggest difference I see is the drive-in capability of the 15 vs the 16, the 16 will pretty much hold the trim in position whereas the 15 actually tighten up the trim a little more... kinda like driving a manual nail home with a nail set. If you go with a 16ga, holding power can be improved if you fire the fastner at a slight angle.

All of my 18ga guns will go to at least 2" and my favorite gun (so far) is the Ridgid 2-1/8 brad nailer, it has all of my fav features.... easy depth adjust, oiless, belt clip, swivel hose connector, rear exhaust and the firing trip is behind the drive pin. The most versatile gun IMO for up to 5/8 stuff.

Only one pinner left in my kit, a Cadex that'll take slight head brads and pins up to 1-3/8".... think small trims, mitered returns, hold in place stuff while the glue dries and virtually invisible 'holes' that quite often don't get filled at all. Extremely accurate, I've assembled simple little bins made of 1/4 plywood using the pins on butt joints with yellow glue.

All of the fastners can 'curl out' if your not careful, just pay attention to grain of the wood when you use the guns. Blowouts are usually not too hard to fix, most times the fastner can be broken off below the surface and filled.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tom,

Is 15 gauge too big to trim out windows in your opinion?

[Prashun Patel]

16 is imho is if you don't want two guns. If you want one for light construction get a 15. If yo want one for trim get an 18. The 23 is most appropriate for a temporary clamp. The holes don't really require filling.

[Tom Ewell]

Is 15 gauge too big to trim out windows in your opinion?

Depends on the type and style of the trim, a typical window interior with extension jambs, some sort of std. pine casing, stool and apron would cause me to go with both 16 and 18ga's.

Assemble and install the ext. jambs, stool with 16 ga, fit the casings to the x-jambs using the 18ga and nail the casings to the wall with 16ga.

My 15ga round head would be a little too big for the more delicate trim work (punching-in the larger head can split the close edge nailing at the jamb) but with careful aim and position of the fastner, a 15ga could be used... I generally try to use the smallest gauge with proper length that will do the job.

It's been a long while since I've looked over what is currently available, I see that round head 16ga (and 18ga) fastners are readily in the mix.

The 16ga round head might be just the ticket for the OP's situation.

[Keith Weber]

Pine trim in my house, all made with a home-made router table and put up with a Senco FP41XP 15-ga. angle nailer. Crown molding appreciates the extra holding power of a 15-ga. I will admit that I've never used a 16-ga. nailer for comparison. I haven't felt the need for anything else, personally. Yeah, the 15-ga. would split a piece of trim if you got too close to the edge, but the solution to that is to stay away from the edge (or use an pin nailer).

[Jim Dwight]

If the OP is installing boards that are flat on both sides (not relieved on the back) then I wouldn't use an 18 gauge brad nailer. I would lean towards the 15 gauge. The casing I like has lots of detail in it and hiding a big 15 gauge hole would be a pain. But a flat board is a different matter. It will want to warp some and you need more holding power to keep it flat on the wall. Easier to hide the hole on a flat surface. If I was doing it, I might get to go buy another nailer (not a bad thing) since I don't have a 15 gauge. I wished I did when I was doing flooring. The 16 gauge worked (18 did not) but more holding power would have helped.

Unfortunately holding power and hole size are related. If you need the most holding, you have to be able to hide the bigger hole. Relatively stiff trim that may want to move on you means you need holding power and need to find a way to hide the resulting hole.

[Tom Deutsch]

If you're just going to buy one - get the 18 gauge. You can always use an actual hammer ( :eek: ) for the few times you'll actually need to get a heavier finish nail into framing for the jobs you are mentioning. Go at alternating angles into the drywall and 18 gauge will hold up perfectly fine.

[Bill Rodgers]

Lots of very good information everybody, thank you. Tom Ewell mentioned 16ga and 18ga round head fasteners now available for those gauges... that 16ga with a round head might be my ticket. Do most of the modern 16ga nailers accept the round head fasteners? I'll be working mostly with 1x4's and 1/2 drywall... what length fasteners would be best for anchoring the baseboard into the walls?

[Bill Rodgers]

Anybody know where I can find the 16ga round head fasteners?

[Phil Thien]

Anybody know where I can find the 16ga round head fasteners?

Interesting question. I've seen round-head guns but never paid attention for round-head fasteners. I know Hitachi has the NT65M2S but looking at product at Amazon, I don't see anyone ordering round-head fasteners with it, and nobody mentions "round" in the reviews.

[Jason Roehl]

Well, as the owner of a few 18 ga. brad nailers, some 1.25" and one 2" and a couple nail/staple combinations - a couple of framing nailers, a palm nailer, a flooring nailer/stapler, a 16 ga straight and a 15 ga angled - - - - plus the requisite manual hammers.... we're going to have to agree to disagree.

It's all about having the right tool to do the job - - and - - all it takes is one bad experience to send you out the door running to pick up the right tool...

These days, I prefer to calmly browse the best deals beforehand, buy what I will need when the price is right rather than run out in a panic once the work is underway ;).

I'm in the same boat as Rich. I've acquired a stable of pneumatic nailers over the years, and find it much less frustrating to use the correct nailer for the job.

Fine trim details (such as cabinet crown) in support of glue: 23 ga
Casing to window/door jamb: 18 ga (1 1/4")
Casing to drywall and base trim: 16 ga (2.5")
Thick (3/4") base and door jambs: 15 ga (2.5")

[Tom Ewell]

Interesting question. I've seen round-head guns but never paid attention for round-head fasteners. I know Hitachi has the NT65M2S but looking at product at Amazon, I don't see anyone ordering round-head fasteners with it, and nobody mentions "round" in the reviews.

Yeah, I was cruising the local Lowes which stocks the Hitachi gun, nowhere on the gun, case, or box was there mention of 'round head'. Checking out the fastener stock, no round head 16ga finish nails could be found either.

Internet foolishness again, guilty as charged.

[Bill Rodgers]

Thanks again guys for all the very helpful information. I ordered a 16ga and an 18ga based on what everybody said. I'll see how the 16ga does and if I need more holding power, I'll step up to the 15ga. Now I just need to learn more about what type of fasteners to get for each.

[Greg R Bradley]

The problem come with names that are not correct.

18ga and 16ga are BRAD guns, not nailers. The shaft is square and the head is the same width as the shaft. The head is longer than the shaft, usually about triple. This means the head on any of those brads is a rectangle. Even the angled 16ga brads, called nails, are the same size as the straight 16ga brads.

Angled 15ga nailer is a whole different thing, much larger and higher holding power than 16ga anything. The shaft is round-ish. The normal head is oval and has lots more holding power at the head than brads. There are special finish 15ga that have a very small ROUND head. There are special full round head 15ga nails that are offset from center so that they will still work in the guns.

[Phil Thien]

The problem come with names that are not correct.

18ga and 16ga are BRAD guns, not nailers. The shaft is square and the head is the same width as the shaft. The head is longer than the shaft, usually about triple. This means the head on any of those brads is a rectangle. Even the angled 16ga brads, called nails, are the same size as the straight 16ga brads.

Angled 15ga nailer is a whole different thing, much larger and higher holding power than 16ga anything. The shaft is round-ish. The normal head is oval and has lots more holding power at the head than brads. There are special finish 15ga that have a very small ROUND head. There are special full round head 15ga nails that are offset from center so that they will still work in the guns.

Then why do they call the smallest a pin NAILER and not a pin BRAD gun?

They're all nailers, they're all guns. They shoot a variety of fasteners.

I've got no problem with referring to 16 gauge as a finish nail. They're pretty big, the difference in holding power between 15 and 16 just isn't that great, IMHO.

Her is an interesting article:

http://www.woodcraftmagazine.com/FreeStuff/AirNailer.pdf

[lowell holmes]

I don't think of pins as nails. With no heads, they will not hold moulding in place like a brad or nail.

I use my pin driver to hold moulding in place until I can put an appropriate fastner in place. The pins scare me a little, they would go through a finger instantly if they hit a knot.

Of course a brad or nail will do so also.

[Phil Thien]

I don't think of pins as nails. With no heads, they will not hold moulding in place like a brad or nail.

I use my pin driver to hold moulding in place until I can put an appropriate fastner in place. The pins scare me a little, they would go through a finger instantly if they hit a knot.

Of course a brad or nail will do so also.

I think we're heading down a rabbit hole.

Let me put it like this: If I tell my wife to bring my nail guns out to the car, I want her to bring everything, not just 15 and larger.

[Rich Riddle]

I prefer to use the 16 gauge and fill the trim. If it's wood trim to be stained and finished, try to find a spot in the grain that's less noticeable. You can then use color matching wood filler.

[Jim Dwight]

Reviewing this I don't see where anybody noted the length of the fastener is chosen to penetrate 1 inch into the framing. Going deeper risks hitting wiring or plumbing. I would go 3/4 before going 1 1/4 into framing. But the trim is important too. If you need more hold you can go deeper but usually the head pulling through is the weak link.

[Art Mann]

I think that is a wise choice. However, I will warn you about using 18 gauge brads in demanding situations. I once worked with a team of volunteers building a house similar to Habit for Humanity houses. I recommended 16 gauge but it was decided by less experienced people to use 18 gauge nailers for this application because that is all most people owned. After a period of time, some of the molding started turning loose and showing big gaps. It had to be fixed.


Thanks again guys for all the very helpful information. I ordered a 16ga and an 18ga based on what everybody said. I'll see how the 16ga does and if I need more holding power, I'll step up to the 15ga. Now I just need to learn more about what type of fasteners to get for each.

[lowell holmes]

I consider the 16 ga to be a nail gun. I consider the 18 ga to be a brad gun.

I put baseboard on with the 16 ga nail gun. Door casing usually gets both, 18 ga brad into the door frame, 16 ga . nail into the drywall.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I consider the 16 ga to be a nail gun. I consider the 18 ga to be a brad gun.
The 16 ga is really considered a brad nailer.
I use mine the same way you do - on the drywall side of the casing...

Where I don't like to use my 16 ga is on the frames of pre hung doors. I really think that's a job for a 15 ga.

[Jon Endres]

I did all the trim (pine, 3/4" and 1" finished thickness) in my house with an 18-gauge brad nailer. I should have used 16-gauge but I did not want the larger nail holes. Some of the trim is separating from the wall and from door jambs because the nails are either pulling free or pulling through the trim. I had one door casing fall completely apart because of a teenage daughter slamming the door. Of course, I repaired the casing and then removed the door until she could control her drama.

So, if I had to do it all over again - 16-gauge brads in an appropriate length to embed at least 3/4" and preferably 1" into good holding wood underneath. I'd probably shoot baseboards and door casings with a 15-gauge nailer because they seem to take a lot more abuse.

[lowell holmes]

Boy, this thread is like giving a thirsty man a drink out of a fire hose.:)

[Jim Becker]

Boy, this thread is like giving a thirsty man a drink out of a fire hose.:)

Yea...but that can be a great thing. Folks doing frequent trim work really need an assortment of pneumatic guns to cover everything and balance holding power with avoiding splitting, etc. And to add to the fray, there are actually situations where a 23 gage pin gun is useful, too... :)

[Sean Shannon]

Pine trim in my house, all made with a home-made router table and put up with a Senco FP41XP 15-ga. angle nailer. Crown molding appreciates the extra holding power of a 15-ga. I will admit that I've never used a 16-ga. nailer for comparison. I haven't felt the need for anything else, personally. Yeah, the 15-ga. would split a piece of trim if you got too close to the edge, but the solution to that is to stay away from the edge (or use an pin nailer).


What Keith said! I'm in the middle of doing trim at my house. I've got the Senco 15ga nailer also, and I'm putting up 3/4 and 1 inch thick trim for the windows. Base molding is 3/4 MDF but it's 5 1/2" tall. Plenty of holding power with a 2" long nail. I did another room last year and have never had any issues with the trim, but I also use biscuits at joints for extra holding power.