Shapton Stones or traditional whetstones?

[chris fullen]

I was cleaning up the shop this weekend, and dropped my stones! So disappointing! Needless to say, I need to replace them.

I'm considering making the investment into shapton stones. I would be buying a 1000/5000/8000 set.

You know how much these cost. Is it worth the investment? Should I just go with some new norton stones?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

[Prashun Patel]

You'll get many opinions on this.

I'm not saying the Shaptons are the best or only game in town, but reason I bought these is because they don't need to be pre-soaked. All three can just be spritzed prior to use. So, they are more convenient than some other waterstones.

Another experienced user (David Weaver) advised me that its possible to skip the middle stone (go right from 1000 to 8000). So, I only bought those 2. However, if you're challenged in the sharpening department as was (read, 'am') I then having that middle stone removes one possible factor for subpar results.

They're very nice stones. I find they stay flat pretty well, but flatten easily too.

[Thomas S Stockton]

Chris
sharpening stones will probably last your lifetime so I would buy the shapton's if they are what you want, and cheaper than buying other stones first and then replacing them with the shaptons at a later date.
Dropping stones is a bummer, I still have the pieces from a king brand silver stone, they come in handy at times, but the main reason I keep them is that every time I pull my stones out of their tupperware it reminds me not to break them
Tom

[Peter Quinn]

My 8000g water stone gave up after 2 decades of service last years I replaced it with a diamond stone, liked it so much I replaced all the stones with diamond. Couldn't be happier, no more constant flattening, I don't miss that at all. I went with DMT dia-sharp and duo-sharp versions. Ive never used the sharptons, I have used other ceramic stones and they lasted much better between flattening and cut pretty well versus regular water stones. Sort of a middle ground in my mind between diamond and water stones. Is there any advantage of Sharptons over diamond stones? Cost seems close, I give the diamond stones a look too.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Chris, if you go with shaptons stones,keep in mind you should have a diamond plate to flatting them and refresh the surface.
I have shapton stones and Norton.I use the shaptons the most.Aj

[Max Neu]

I was using Shaptons until I got a Worksharp,now they just collect dust.I modified the Worksharp so i can sharpen anything from my 1/8" chisels to my 2 1/4" plane iron blades through the chisel port,which eliminates the need for a jig.I no longer have to sharpen wide blades from the top with a jig,which is alot more convenient.I now keep all my hand tool blades razor sharp,it only takes a few seconds now to freshen up an edge,no more jigs,mess,flattening stones etc.I originally got the Worksharp to do utility chisels and other unimportant things,but once I started experimenting with diamond paste and buffing compounds on MDF,I realised I can get just as sharp as I did with the shaptons,and alot quicker!

[chris fullen]

I was using Shaptons until I got a Worksharp,now they just collect dust.I modified the Worksharp so i can sharpen anything from my 1/8" chisels to my 2 1/4" plane iron blades through the chisel port,which eliminates the need for a jig.I no longer have to sharpen wide blades from the top with a jig,which is alot more convenient.I now keep all my hand tool blades razor sharp,it only takes a few seconds now to freshen up an edge,no more jigs,mess,flattening stones etc.I originally got the Worksharp to do utility chisels and other unimportant things,but once I started experimenting with diamond paste and buffing compounds on MDF,I realised I can get just as sharp as I did with the shaptons,and alot quicker!

Max,

I do own a worksharp, but I use for chisels that take more abuse in the field. Mine wobbles a bit during use, so it has never given me perfect results. I emailed the company and got no response. We use the worksharp a lot. It lives in my work trailer and i do all my sharpening in the field mostly.

However, I use the stones for my children (my planes). I am not sure that I could get the same edge on my plane irons on the worksharp.

I did some research, and purchased a combination of diamond plates, and one 8000 grit shapton stone. I will likely get another higher grit somewhere down the road, but this is all I can spend at the time.

[ken hatch]

I was cleaning up the shop this weekend, and dropped my stones! So disappointing! Needless to say, I need to replace them.

I'm considering making the investment into shapton stones. I would be buying a 1000/5000/8000 set.

You know how much these cost. Is it worth the investment? Should I just go with some new norton stones?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I use both Shapton's and oil stones. With the Shapton I have a near full set (missing the 30000) but only use the 1000 and the 15000 for normal sharpening. The Shapton's are nice and put a beautiful polish on quickly but unless there is a reason to use 'em my day to day sharpening is done on a soft Arkansas and a hard Black Arkansas followed by a couple of quick pulls on a leather strop to insure the wire edge is taken care of.

Of course, as with all things wood and especially with sharpening.....YMMV.

ken

[Don Slaughter]

Chris, I bought that set....1000, 4000, 8000 about seven years ago and it is where the sharpening gamut ended for me. I don't use a diamond stone for flattening...just sandpaper on marble and mine carry the mail for me. I have the oilstones but never use them anymore. I have diamond stones that are very effective when an edge gets chipped or broken. I do use the leather with honing paste during the day while working. For me it was about making sharpening something that is not such a nuisance task. I have a cookie sheet with my shaptons, a holder and spray bottle that fits under the bench. Easy...no more than ten minutes to sharpen everything before I leave the shop each day.
good luck,

[Jim Matthews]

Are you dedicated to Waterstones?

I've recently begun to use traditional oilstones,
which are relatively inexpensive, easier to maintain
and cut fast.

The bonus is that they use WD40 - so no water in my damp shop.

Barring that, a couple good diamond stones from Atoma will last your lifetime - and can't be broken.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Ultimately whatever gives you a useable edge is good enough, and all the above responses offer solutions that will do the job. Personally I would go with the Shaptons. I have a Worksharp, Tormek, oil stones, DMT diamond stones, Nortons, Choseras, and Shaptons, plus all the strops, glass plates, and granite a man ever needs. My go-to stones are the Choseras, but the Shaptons are just about equal. The differences are minute, and the end result is about equal, although I find the Choseras just a bit faster cutting and love the feedback I get from them (the feel of the grit), but this is a very subtle difference. It sounds like you liked using the Nortons and want to move up, and I would say do so. I recommend that people get Nortons if they just want to try waterstones because they are affordable and yet offer a very good finish. I recommend once they find they like waterstones to start with the finest grit and get the best one they can afford, then work down to the lower grits. The finish stone is the most important one, as that's the edge you end up with. Shapton makes an excellent stone (the Shapton Professional and the Shapton Glass are what I refer to) and you will love them.

I prefer waterstones because they cut quick, no oily mess (although they are still a little messy), they use no power, and honestly I just enjoy using them. Not to knock those that suggested the Worksharp, but I only use it to change a bevel, or with a felt wheel to polish metal. It's way too agressive, and will never get the finish that a fine waterstone will, BUT it will give you a good-enough finish for most work if that's all you want. The Tormek is mostly used for repointing knives, sharpening powered planer knives, and sharpening gouges. (It excels at that) It's too much fuss to set up to do plane irons. I intended when I got it to hollow grind all my chisels and irons. Turns out that takes forever, so I never did.

My primary reason for using waterstones over oil stones is I find they cut faster (speaking of the Choseras and Shaptons versus Arkansas stones that I have tried- not all waterstones will cut faster than all oil stones) and they are much more readily available in specific grades. I did use oilstones for years, and got nice edges doing so, but I prefer the waterstones. Also with a waterstone the slurry will break down and get finer during sharpening. The main reason I do not like diamond stones is they leave a much more defined scratch pattern because each diamond cuts a defined groove, where with waterstones you get a more subtle scratch pattern that is more random and easier to polish at each progressive level. Diamond stones are, however, very fast cutting and great for repairing an edge and setting a bevel, which is what I use them for.

Just want to close by reiterating there are pros and cons to any method, and in the end whichever method gives you a sharp enough edge for the work you are doing is at least a good enough method, and I don't knock any method that does so. Personally I have settled on waterstones, and find it hard to beat the edge they give, which allows me to plane very highly figured maple and mahogany with no tear-out even with a standard angle frog. So my advice is without hesitation, get the Shaptons and don't look back. Your post suggested that your stones you dropped were Nortons. The Shaptons are going to cut way faster than the Nortons and give you a more refined edge.

[Paul McGaha]

Chris,

I'd say it's a good idea for you to try a set of water stones. I'd suggest the Shapton Pro stones in 1000, 2000 and 12,000 grit.

If you would prefer an 8,000 grit stone the Naniwa Snow White is a good stone.

Just my $.02, Good luck with it.

PHM

[Tom Stenzel]

My answer is (of course) it depends on the metals you have to sharpen. A2 or powdered metals?

With only traditional steels to sharpen I've stayed with oil stones by the power of pure inertia. If I dropped them I don't know what I would replace them with. Although George Wilson's recommendation of the Spyderco type stones would carry some weight.

-Tom

[Kees Heiden]

Oilstones are a bit slow, but they do have advantages. They are hard, so when sharpening gouges or very narrow chisels you don't gouge them so easilly. That was the reason why I started to use oilstones. I like them much better now then my old waterstones.

Other advantages:

- No mess. Natural oilstones are used with very little oil.
- No water, no freezing, no rust potential.
- Not going out of flat. My DMT plate has worn considerably on my waterstones.
- Somehow all these factors make freehand honing more pleasurable.
- They wear down incredibly slow, while I have worn down my waterstones quite a bit.

So, when you only use O1 steel or vintage, then oilstones aren't such a bad idea at all. Waterstones surely are not a bad choice either, so in the end it all comes down to personal preference.

[Matthew N. Masail]

If I were starting out fresh I would get a 1K Shapton and and Naniwa Snow-White 8K, if you want something in between then a Chosera 3k or a Naniwa Hayabusa 4k both of which are the best stones in that range I have ever used, just different in how they feel and cut.

[ian maybury]

I hand sharpened on the classic mass market/box store oil stones for years, and was blown away by the quality of edge and speed of cut delivered by a set of Shaptons used with a honing guide - my first waterstones. Getting down to a very fine grit (12,000 in my case) makes such a difference. I'm using a 5,000 between that and the 1,000 - with an Atoma 400 for flattening.

I can't say from experience what the capability of a more sophisticated oil stone set up might be, but suspect that it's important if using them to have some of the finer e.g. Arkansas stones to finish on. Depending on how far that takes the edge it might or might not be advisable to think in terms of stropping to finish...

[John Sanford]

If clumsy is a way of life for you, then go to the DMT diamond stones. Far more durable than any other stones out there. You'll be more concerned with keeping your feet out of the path of a falling stone than you will with the possibility of the stone breaking.

That said, I can't offer any perspective on the Shapton vs oil vs water stone question.

[chris fullen]

Got my stones in today. I played a little around with them by tuning up my block plane.
I will say that this setup is an improvement from my old. I'm happy with my purchase, especially the diamond plate from DMT.