Hammer K3 Winner - What I've learned in the last 6 months

[Mike Cahill]

Hi there

First time poster. I purchased a Hammer K3 Winner sliding table saw and an A31 Planer/Jointer about 6 months ago. I moved from a cabinet saw with lots of jigs and fixtures, Incra miter sled etc etc. and it has been a bit of a learning curve so thought I’d share in case it is useful to others.

Pre-purchase
It took me a while to pull the trigger, figure out what I wanted etc. Liz Rogers (E.Rogers@felderusa.com (E.Rogers@felderusa.com)) was (and still is) exceedingly helpful before, during and after the sale. I did find it hard to figure out which accessories I needed so to save others time, get the dust port adapter to convert from the European size to our usual 4” – this is a must have. Also, if you decide to get extensions, they are the same between machines (e.g. I can use the same extension ‘table’ on the saw or the jointer/ or the planer – you just need the mounting kits for each machine. Also get the ‘mobility’ kit – these machines are HEAVY.

They’ll arrive extremely well packed on pallets. The unpacking takes a long time as you have to break down the crate they are in etc. You need a pallet jack. I ended up buying one as I knew setup was going to take a few days. Harbor freight have one for a reasonable price that I got a big discount on with a coupon and was then able to sell on Craig’s List a few weeks later.
http://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/hand-trucks/25-ton-pallet-jack-68761.html

Also, you need a couple of friends. I had to build a ramp to get the jointer/planer off the pallet. Again these machines are HEAVY.

Hold-downs
I’ve seen lots of discussions about hold-downs/clamps for the sliding table. I have found that the following work just fine.

Budget: These work but are a little flimsy - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J31PJM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
312571

Medium: Needs a washer to make it fit into the t-slot on the table:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DCGMYW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
312572

Best: These came with my FMT jig but they sell them separately. These work great. And not too pricey! You need the surface mount model.
https://www.leighjigs.com/hold-down_clamp.php
312573

Finally, get some of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They have a ¼” X 20 thread and self-center in the various T-slots. They also work for attaching things to the fence etc. They are great.
312574

Ripping
Have also seen lots of discussions on ripping. I am not using the sliding table for the final rip-to width. I am using the rip fence just like I did with my cabinet saw. I had some Maglock featherboards, clamp, a custom saw guard with anti-kickback pawls etc. I like using a feather board to prevent kickback and keep the board against the fence and my fingers away from the blade. I found that the Kreg featherboards fit and work great. Just use the plastic insert that comes with them to make them fit into the slot and you’re off. I also slide the fence back to the center of the blade so nothing can get trapped between fence and blade.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VRML5Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I haven’t used the sliding table to make the initial rip (the one you usually use a jointer for) but am going to try that out having read about it.
312575

Crosscut fence
I was spoiled, I came from an Incra Miter 5000 sled. I work with hardwood 99.9% of the time and am used to supporting the work piece at point of contact with the blade to reduce or eliminate tearout. The crosscut fence on the saw is a couple of inches shy of the blade. Also, what if I want to cut small pieces? I’ve been messing with sacrificial fences attached to the fence using the parts mentioned above (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some 14” X 20 screws. This works fine but then I can’t use any of the stops that came with the fence and you have to clamp stops to the fence. Again this works fine but sometimes, especially when making boxes, you want two stops – one for the short side length and one for the long side length and you need to flip the short one up out of the way as you alternate between pieces.

After much experimentation I came up with the following. I found that Kreg swing stops (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002QZ4WG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) fit the fence if you attach them with the nuts I mentioned earlier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some thumb bolts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GV2Y4VW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1). You can then make a piece of wood that is the height of the fence but longer, that fits between the fence and the stop (about 7/16 thick), attach it to the fence using those miraculous wedge shaped nuts again and some screws and you have a sacrificial fence with stops.
312577312576312578


Photos of everything I have mentioned attached. Please let me know if there are any questions or if I can explain anything further.

Cheers

Mike

[Rick Potter]

Welcome to the creek, Mike. Looks like you have some great ideas.

I just went through all the Faztek stuff on Amazon. Lots of ideas there. I notice that those t-nuts are available in several sizes, including metric......gotta get some 5/16". That heavy duty aluminum track looks pretty good too.

Rick

[ian maybury]

Hi Mike, We headed down similar routes on mods, but in slightly different ways. I've an 8ft K3 Perform in Ireland bought in 2011. How was the set up on yours as received? Mine has eventually proven a very satisfactory saw, but as received was thrown together and took a lot of dialling in to sort table, blade tilt, slider alignment and other issues. One way to get to know your saw! I think Felder US may run a local tune up on the US ones as the issue doesn't seem to arise with you guys?

I'm running a metric Incra miter fence (photo) in my slider, it's been very good. I'd agree that having a sacrificial fence is convenient (essential?) if only to know where the line of cut falls. The bar needed packing with self adhesive UHMW and planing to size to sort the fit. (photo) One issue is that the bar projects some distance up the slider slot and can at times block access for work clamps placed close in to the fence, it also can only be removed from the outfeed end - i'm about to mill a slot in the sheet metal handle (2nd photo) bracket at the user end of the slider so that it can be slid out that end and removed when needed. I'll also see about shortening and turning it around.

I made DIY work clamps from F clamps (photo), they work fine too. Those Leigh clamps look like a very nifty idea for smaller work though, as do the Irvin track saw clamps. I'm a bit cautious about the possibility of damage to the anodising if using steel nuts and stuff in the T slot, so i made my T nuts from phenolic/compressed fabric board. (photo) This can be worked on a router table, sawn etc.

The Hammer rip fence is massively upgraded and these days gets good reports, but acting on information about the original one i fitted a metric Incra TS LS rip fence. (photo) I wanted the positioning capability anyway and it's so far been very good - amazed at the accuracy and how precisely it holds toe out settings. Just about the only downside is that it's a bit more awkward to remove than a stock fence for very occasiona extra wide rip cuts off the slider. My rip table is DIY too - i just didn't like the sheet metal.

I rip off the slider a lot of the time. It's the way to go when you want a dead on straight edge, but when i need repetitive parallel sided strips of exactly the same width i have to admit i drop back to using the rip fence. The issue the slider throws up as you know is that realistically you have to be able to accurately place the work on it relative to the line of cut. I haven't figured out yet if the mythical 'experts' do this routinely.

Sorting out methods to position work on the slider in all situations is a work in progress, but i get good use out of various lengths of stop rules referenced off the edge of the slider. (Shinwa do certified accuracy rules with accessory stops in lots of lengths, Lee Valley do some shorter ones) The Fritz and Frans device seems a very useful and easily made accessory too, set up so that it's trimmed off using the saw it also gives a line of cut reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk I'm awaiting a shop relayout for room to fit my 1200mm cross cut fence and frame, and will build one then.

It's also possible to use parallel bars to set up cuts off the slider. Brian lamb on the Felder Owners Group site (there's only a very little by way of Hammer interest there) does a set of parallel fences/stops that get good feedback: http://www.lambtoolworks.com/products.html I have a DIY set almost finished….

312604312605312607312608312606

[Jim Andrew]

I've had my Hammer K3 about a year, and use the slider for ripping to get a straight edge. I ordered the Hammer clamp, but don't care much for it. I use a Kreg T track clamp, first cut a piece of 1/2" phenolic, but it broke, so used a piece of steel, and it works fine. I don't over tighten it. Still think the Biesemeyer fence is a better fence, although don't see how one would work with the slider. Built my own outfeed table, clamp a block on it as a stop for the slider, as the stop on mine is not in the right place, and can rip better between fence and blade with the slider farther forward. I have the 79" slider.

[Preston Hoffman]

This post has been extremely helpful. One question I have for Ian is if you like the incra HD setup? I have an Incra HD, but never considered using it on the slider. Is it preferred over the Hammer supplied miter gauge? Have you considered purchasing the double miter gauge EGL from Felder?

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I am still tinkering with my K3 and a hold down solution. This thread gives me more ideas. Thank you for sharing.

I had the same concern as Ian Maybury about damaging the aluminum sliding table, so made my T-slot nut out of oak. I milled 5 feet worth of oak T-slot bar that I can chop to size and use whenever. Quite easy to do with the planer and a router in a router table.

[ian maybury]

Hi Preston. The Incra Miter gauge for all its simplicity has in fact been amazingly precise. It stays as set for months after month.

There may be differing Hammer short mitre gauges about, but the one i was offered while having a substantial short fence attached (a bit heavier than the Incra one) didn't seem to have any built in angle setting capability. Which was why i went for the Incra. There is however the option of mating the Hammer gauge with some sort of precision angle setting device.

I've used the Incra a lot and it definitely repeats very well and stays in adjustment - but if i'm to be honest i haven't used it all that much on jobs requiring lots of different high precision angles to numerical values. The reports are good - but in the end accuracy in degree terms is down to how accurately the individual detents are cut in the disc. Perhaps Incra can offer a tolerance/number?

The EGL is reportedly to be capable and convenient (there's a nifty version with all sorts of built in calculation i think), although i've never used one. It's very expensive. I had the Incra gauge on the shelf before i bought the K3 as i'd dabbled with upgrading the previous saw.

The big issue with digital/electronic angle setting gauges is that it's actually very tough to get down to genuinely high levels of accuracy with them. The better ones go to about 1/10 degree which sounds very accurate, but if you work out the error that amounts to on the side of a large (e.g 3ft) panel its about 0.06in or 1.5mm. Which is quite a lot - a decent gap. Going much tighter electronically starts to quickly get very expensive...

[James Zhu]

Martin USA sells the Fritz and Franz from RUMI, a great safety device for slider. A martin dealer introduced this new product in Felder forum a month ago.

http://www.martin-usa.com/products/frame-saw-system-for-sliding-table-saw-comfort/

[Wakahisa Shinta]

My version of the F&F jig was simple to make. Two UHMW tracks milled to snugly fit the T slot on the slider table. These are then attached to 1" thick hard wood blocks, making sure the blocks are squared to the blade. These blocks are then trimmed by the blade with the first cut to create a sort of zero-clearance front and back "fences" that a piece of lumber is held in between. For now, I have been using this jig to use the sliding table for ripping.

[Chris Parks]

I put a Wixey on the rip fence and use that for a measured stop using the F&F method to hold anything I am ripping on the slider. I rarely have to use the rip fence ala a normal TS and can't see why hold downs are necessary when using the F&F method. It is the single greatest idea for sliders since the slider was invented I reckon. I wish I could come up with a built in stop system for it. The cross cut fence can be moved closer to the blade by moving the stops in the fence if you want.

[Chris Parks]

Martin USA sells the Fritz and Franz from RUMI, a great safety device for slider. A martin dealer introduced this new product in Felder forum a month ago.

http://www.martin-usa.com/products/frame-saw-system-for-sliding-table-saw-comfort/

Any idea of the price James and will it fit the Hammer table slot?

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Chris,

Could you elaborate more about using Wixey mounted on the rip fence?
Can you somehow measure the distance,,,, which distance?

I'm also using F&F extensively and very curious.

[Chris Parks]

I installed the Wixey on the rip fence and it is zeroed from the blade. If I want to rip using the F&F method I pull the rip fence back so it is clear of the blade and set the width required on the rip fence. The timber is then pushed against the rip fence to set the width and locked into the F&F jig and then ripped using the slider. If the rip is longer than the slider will allow then the the conventional TS method is used. Does that answer your question?

[Susumu Mori]

Thanks Chris,

So the Wixey provides essentially the same information as the rip fence scale, I guess?

[Susumu Mori]

Just got a call. They are not sure if they fit Hammer and the prices are $418/$625 for two different versions. Wow.

I stick with my hand-made version that serves me well.

[Kent Adams]

Just got a call. They are not sure if they fit Hammer and the prices are $418/$625 for two different versions. Wow.

I stick with my hand-made version that serves me well.

That $ for a plywood jig? That makes Festool look cheap!

[Chris Parks]

The Wixey advantage is repeatability, nothing more, no test cuts needed it is always spot on.

[Susumu Mori]

I see. No more eyeballing the scale with my eye glasses off. The more I use Hammer the more I think I need a shorter version of the rip fence because it rarely extends beyond the blade. And the Wixey seems a nice addition.

[James Zhu]

Any idea of the price James and will it fit the Hammer table slot?

Sorry for the late reply. The martin dealer said it is also available in a Hammer configuration.. The price Susumu mentioned above is same as what martin dealer said in the Felder forum.

[Chris Parks]

I wanted to use a shortened version of the fence as a rip stop when ripping on the slider but I can't find a damaged one to cut up. It only needs to be 200mm long to do the job but I refuse to pay the price for a new one to put a hacksaw through it.

[Susumu Mori]

Mine came with a 1,200 mm version:eek:, which is way to long for most of the time.
I'm going to get a 500 mm one.

[Chris Parks]

Crosscut fence
I was spoiled, I came from an Incra Miter 5000 sled. I work with hardwood 99.9% of the time and am used to supporting the work piece at point of contact with the blade to reduce or eliminate tearout. The crosscut fence on the saw is a couple of inches shy of the blade. Also, what if I want to cut small pieces? I’ve been messing with sacrificial fences attached to the fence using the parts mentioned above (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some 14” X 20 screws. This works fine but then I can’t use any of the stops that came with the fence and you have to clamp stops to the fence. Again this works fine but sometimes, especially when making boxes, you want two stops – one for the short side length and one for the long side length and you need to flip the short one up out of the way as you alternate between pieces.

After much experimentation I came up with the following. I found that Kreg swing stops (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002QZ4WG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) fit the fence if you attach them with the nuts I mentioned earlier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some thumb bolts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GV2Y4VW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1). You can then make a piece of wood that is the height of the fence but longer, that fits between the fence and the stop (about 7/16 thick), attach it to the fence using those miraculous wedge shaped nuts again and some screws and you have a sacrificial fence with stops.
312577312576312578



Cheers

Mike

Have a look at end of the fence where he has put in a filler piece between it & the blade, You need to stop the video as soon as it starts
https://youtu.be/rbRlItVCcIc?t=223

[Max Neu]

As far as digital readouts are concerned, I would get a Pro Scale.They are a higher quality/professional version of a Wixey.

[Mike Cahill]

Chris, - yeah, I had considered that. Something else to look into :-)

[Ted Diehl]

Hi there

First time poster. I purchased a Hammer K3 Winner sliding table saw and an A31 Planer/Jointer about 6 months ago. I moved from a cabinet saw with lots of jigs and fixtures, Incra miter sled etc etc. and it has been a bit of a learning curve so thought I’d share in case it is useful to others.

Pre-purchase
It took me a while to pull the trigger, figure out what I wanted etc. Liz Rogers (E.Rogers@felderusa.com (E.Rogers@felderusa.com)) was (and still is) exceedingly helpful before, during and after the sale. I did find it hard to figure out which accessories I needed so to save others time, get the dust port adapter to convert from the European size to our usual 4” – this is a must have. Also, if you decide to get extensions, they are the same between machines (e.g. I can use the same extension ‘table’ on the saw or the jointer/ or the planer – you just need the mounting kits for each machine. Also get the ‘mobility’ kit – these machines are HEAVY.

They’ll arrive extremely well packed on pallets. The unpacking takes a long time as you have to break down the crate they are in etc. You need a pallet jack. I ended up buying one as I knew setup was going to take a few days. Harbor freight have one for a reasonable price that I got a big discount on with a coupon and was then able to sell on Craig’s List a few weeks later.
http://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/hand-trucks/25-ton-pallet-jack-68761.html

Also, you need a couple of friends. I had to build a ramp to get the jointer/planer off the pallet. Again these machines are HEAVY.

Hold-downs
I’ve seen lots of discussions about hold-downs/clamps for the sliding table. I have found that the following work just fine.

Budget: These work but are a little flimsy - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J31PJM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
312571

Medium: Needs a washer to make it fit into the t-slot on the table:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DCGMYW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
312572

Best: These came with my FMT jig but they sell them separately. These work great. And not too pricey! You need the surface mount model.
https://www.leighjigs.com/hold-down_clamp.php
312573

Finally, get some of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They have a ¼” X 20 thread and self-center in the various T-slots. They also work for attaching things to the fence etc. They are great.
312574

Ripping
Have also seen lots of discussions on ripping. I am not using the sliding table for the final rip-to width. I am using the rip fence just like I did with my cabinet saw. I had some Maglock featherboards, clamp, a custom saw guard with anti-kickback pawls etc. I like using a feather board to prevent kickback and keep the board against the fence and my fingers away from the blade. I found that the Kreg featherboards fit and work great. Just use the plastic insert that comes with them to make them fit into the slot and you’re off. I also slide the fence back to the center of the blade so nothing can get trapped between fence and blade.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VRML5Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I haven’t used the sliding table to make the initial rip (the one you usually use a jointer for) but am going to try that out having read about it.
312575

Crosscut fence
I was spoiled, I came from an Incra Miter 5000 sled. I work with hardwood 99.9% of the time and am used to supporting the work piece at point of contact with the blade to reduce or eliminate tearout. The crosscut fence on the saw is a couple of inches shy of the blade. Also, what if I want to cut small pieces? I’ve been messing with sacrificial fences attached to the fence using the parts mentioned above (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some 14” X 20 screws. This works fine but then I can’t use any of the stops that came with the fence and you have to clamp stops to the fence. Again this works fine but sometimes, especially when making boxes, you want two stops – one for the short side length and one for the long side length and you need to flip the short one up out of the way as you alternate between pieces.

After much experimentation I came up with the following. I found that Kreg swing stops (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002QZ4WG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) fit the fence if you attach them with the nuts I mentioned earlier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MQ9PGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some thumb bolts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GV2Y4VW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1). You can then make a piece of wood that is the height of the fence but longer, that fits between the fence and the stop (about 7/16 thick), attach it to the fence using those miraculous wedge shaped nuts again and some screws and you have a sacrificial fence with stops.
312577312576312578


Photos of everything I have mentioned attached. Please let me know if there are any questions or if I can explain anything further.

Cheers

Mike

i took delivery on my Hammer K3 Winner last month and thanks to your advice, I went out and purchased the Harbor Freight Pallet Jack before my saw arrived. The pallet jack currently sold by HF will not work well. The forks are too far apart to slide both of them under the saw base. You can get one fork and balance the saw on it but this is Very dangerous if you're not careful. I did do it though and carefully balanced the saw on the fork while my buddy slid some scrap 2x4's under the front and rear of the base, then I lowered the saw down and attached the mobility kit I ordered with the saw. Then with the wheels in place, built a ramp and got it off the pallet. This could have been accomplished without the pallet Jack using 2x4 studs to leverage each side up. I put the pallet Jack on Craigslist and sold it in 2 days for $200. Your clamp suggestions are greatly appreciated. BTW it took about a day to get the saw off the pallet and half the next day to assemble it (correctly 😳). The biggest pain was installing the extension table and getting it lined up. I finally got the
Electrician over to install 220v in my garage. Now I'm stuck trying to hook up the exhaust port (4.72 inches) to my Oneida 2 1/2 inch hose. If anyone has figured this out please let me know.

[Erik Loza]

...Now I'm stuck trying to hook up the exhaust port (4.72 inches) to my Oneida 2 1/2 inch hose. If anyone has figured this out please let me know.

Lots of us use rubber sewer pipe fittings as couplers. Fernco is one brand, you can buy them at HD, Lowe's, et al. You'd want 5" ID for the machine, then adapt up/down as needed. Also, and you might already be aware of this: 2.5" dust extraction on the main saw chute will probably be an issue. I assume you're talking about the main saw chute and not the one on the riving knife.

Erik

[Kevin Jenness]

For backing up the crosscut I hold a scrap block behind the trailing edge of the workpiece with the crossscut fence in the forward position. That way I always have a fresh backer.

I inserted a wood block into the end of the crosscut fence extrusion so that gives a clear visual indicator of the cut point.

Like you, I use the rip fence "American style" for final ripping of most solid wood. For an initial straight edge on plywood or lumber the slider is used, sometimes using clamps, a ripping shoe or crosscut stop to locate the material. If my rip will leave enough material to hold the workpiece on the slider I do that and use the retracted rip fence as a guide. For narrow rips, Fritz and Fans with the rip fence retracted can't be beat. Whenever I can keep my hands to the left of the blade I do so.

The photo shows a shop-made clamp using a veneer press screw.

[Chris Parks]

Using the Frits & Franz method I have never found the need for any clamps at all and using it to rip is so much easier than relying on the rip fence. I eventually took the plunge, bought a new fence extrusion and cut it down to about 200mm to serve as a measuring stop when using the slider to rip or cross cut if needed. Repetitive cross cuts done against a short fence take no time at all.

[Andy Giddings]

Ted, sorry to hear about your issue with the Pallet Jack. I would recommend joining the Felder User Group on Yahoo. There are a lot of posts there about buying the right Jack for the Felder range. Most of the saws require a narrow Jack to fit under the frame. A standard width Jack will work with the combination machines.

[Andy Giddings]

Chris, agree with you regarding the F & F Jig. As long as you use some grippy material on the faces of the F & F, I've never found the need to clamp anything yet, even when cutting long strips off of narrow 2" thick material. Like you, I've put some stops and scales on the top of each side of the jig which enables accurate and repeatable cuts, quickly and easily.

[Ted Diehl]

Ted, sorry to hear about your issue with the Pallet Jack. I would recommend joining the Felder User Group on Yahoo. There are a lot of posts there about buying the right Jack for the Felder range. Most of the saws require a narrow Jack to fit under the frame. A standard width Jack will work with the combination machines.
Andy, I didn't mean to imply the pallet jack was a waste of time. It did allow me to jack up the saw but I had to carefully balance the saw on one fork - which took about 3 attemps before it balanced. It also appears there is a shortage of pallet jacks on craigslist because I started getting calls on it within 2 hours of posting. I should have asked more for it but you know, I'd didn't want to be greedy :-)

[Ted Diehl]

Lots of us use rubber sewer pipe fittings as couplers. Fernco is one brand, you can buy them at HD, Lowe's, et al. You'd want 5" ID for the machine, then adapt up/down as needed. Also, and you might already be aware of this: 2.5" dust extraction on the main saw chute will probably be an issue. I assume you're talking about the main saw chute and not the one on the riving knife.

Erik

Yes, it's for the main extractor duck. I'm not having any luck at HD or Lowes. They don't have anything large enough to fit OVER the Hammer port. I have tried many searches and have bought several but none seem to fit OVER the duct. I bought a 5" to 4" reducer on Rockler and it will not fit OVER it's too small by about 1/16". So I thought about getting a PVC coupler to fit between the duct on the saw and the rockler fitting and nothing seems to be sized right. I'm about ready to give up and just sweep up the mess after I done cutting wood. The only option I have left is to get a thin piece of aluminum and roll it into the shape of a coupler, tape it with duct tap on the inside and stuff it in the saw duct and then push the rockler reducer on to the other side. Then I'll tape it up with a roll of tape and see what happens. It won't look good but if it is functional I'll use it.

[Chris Parks]

These saws have a really bad habit of thin cut offs going down into the dust chute under the blade and then through the port into the extraction hose so you need to make sure you can disconnect the hose at the port easily. Hammer do sell an insert for when a Dado set is used which is wood, comes blank and stops this happening or you can make your own which is a bit of a fiddle as it needs reliefs cut into the under side for it to fit.

[Ryan Mooney]

Hammer do sell an insert for when a Dado set is used which is wood, comes blank and stops this happening or you can make your own which is a bit of a fiddle as it needs reliefs cut into the under side for it to fit.

They aren't toooooo bad to make - especially if you buy the hammer one as a template ;)

I add about another 1/4-3/8" on the slider side of the insert and then bevel it to fit under the table... It wouldn't be as necessary with the high density stuff hammer uses but I'm mostly just knocking them out of some poplar so it really like a little extra beef there.

[mark mcfarlane]

Chris, agree with you regarding the F & F Jig. As long as you use some grippy material on the faces of the F & F, I've never found the need to clamp anything yet, even when cutting long strips off of narrow 2" thick material. Like you, I've put some stops and scales on the top of each side of the jig which enables accurate and repeatable cuts, quickly and easily.

Andy, I'm curious to see a picture, if you have one handy.

[Andy Giddings]

Here you go Mark. I copied the approach used by the original inventors and also used the YouTube video from Extreme Woodworker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE. The scales, stops and track are all Incra products that I had laying around. I used a metric scale only as it helps me with accuracy. The track just sits on top of the Baltic Birch ply, doesn't need to be recessed. The green material is the same as the original Fritz and Franz jig. Although its a European product, there is a distributor in the US. The material has some give, which makes the grip more secure.

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[Chris Parks]

Adny, the Incra stops look great, I might try that. Where did you get the green material for the faces from?

[Ted Diehl]

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Well, I got tired of feeling sorry for myself and noodled this around in my head and came up with this for my Hammer K3 saw dust exhaust port. It aint pretty but its totally functional!

[Andy Giddings]

Chris, from a company called Summa Solutions in South Carolina. Its made by Ostermann in Europe and Summa are the distributor. Min order is 10 meters and its $5/meter. Shipping was the killer as it was the same as the cost of the material.

The part number is Ostermann 100.2056.032. You will need a 3mm groove cut into the face of the jig as the material is a push fit into the groove. Here is their spec page https://www.ostermann.eu/en/product/47618 I still have 9 meters left so would be happy to send some for what it cost me + shipping

[Chris Parks]

Andy, I will PM you and thanks, shipping to Oz can be the killer.

[Chris Parks]

I am modifying my exhaust port at the moment, not actually the port but what happens after that. My thinking behind this work was I am sick and tired of having the vertical drop to the saw for the cabinet and wanted it gone and wanted the extraction hose off the floor. I have been looking at this problem for at least 12 months and actually started a thread on what others have done but there did not seem to be any alternatives that suited me. I looked at moving the exhaust port to the left opposite wall away from the sliding table putting it under the extension table to the right but it was always in the way and was going to restrict material handling or if left on the floor was going to be a trip hazard and a PIA to use the correct terminology.

I am fortunate that my workshop is a two story building with a steel frame and sheet flooring so I came up with the bright idea of ripping up part of the floor and running a duct to the nearest wall. It could only be a short run due to the construction detail of the steel joists and beams. The next problem was the off cuts these saws swallow and preventing them getting into the underfloor duct and also allowing an easy way to get them out. I also had the issue of 5" to 4" differences in pipe size and a blast gate needed to be in there somewhere, these photos do not show the blast gate as I am doing that bit right now.

I built a box with entry from the saw and in the floor of the box is the exit and the wire screen prevents big bits going any further. The perspex lid is easily removed to get the long bits out but the blast gate still had me puzzled until yesterday. I have slotted the wall nearest the saw so that a sheet of plywood can be pushed in and covers the floor exit but that was going to be a pain to get to so I needed a remote control for the BG. I took a long piece of wood and fixed it to the end of the plywood slide, it exits under the machine just where the operator stands do he can push it back and forth with his foot, I haven't tried this bit yet but it sounds good!! Now I have a remote control blast gate, well I hope I have.

[mark mcfarlane]

Here you go Mark. I copied the approach used by the original inventors and also used the YouTube video from Extreme Woodworker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE. The scales, stops and track are all Incra products that I had laying around. I used a metric scale only as it helps me with accuracy. The track just sits on top of the Baltic Birch ply, doesn't need to be recessed. The green material is the same as the original Fritz and Franz jig. Although its a European product, there is a distributor in the US. The material has some give, which makes the grip more secure.

346166

Thanks Andy. Gives me some ideas,...

[Chris Parks]

I finished the remote controlled blast gate today, I suppose it cost me 25 cents but that is only a guess.

The operator end when standing at the saw...I haven't cut it to length and won't until I use it a bit more

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The other end connecting to the slide inside the box...


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The box itself showing a few bits of debris after testing, the block of wood is a stop to limit movement when the BG is opened.

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All in all I am super pleased how well it works and the BG works without much force at all and the best part is it is so simple.

[Christopher Petro]

i took delivery on my Hammer K3 Winner last month and thanks to your advice, I went out and purchased the Harbor Freight Pallet Jack before my saw arrived. The pallet jack currently sold by HF will not work well. The forks are too far apart to slide both of them under the saw base. You can get one fork and balance the saw on it but this is Very dangerous if you're not careful. I did do it though and carefully balanced the saw on the fork while my buddy slid some scrap 2x4's under the front and rear of the base, then I lowered the saw down and attached the mobility kit I ordered with the saw. Then with the wheels in place, built a ramp and got it off the pallet. This could have been accomplished without the pallet Jack using 2x4 studs to leverage each side up. I put the pallet Jack on Craigslist and sold it in 2 days for $200.

I read the instructions from Felder for doing the ramp + pallet jack trick and stopped when I got to the part where you balance the whole thing on a single fork because you can't fit both under the machine. That, combined with the low-profile wheels on pallet jacks that tend to cause the whole jack to bottom out when going over any surface that isn't flat, made me decide that I needed a less crazy way of getting the machine off the pallet. When I saw that you have to get the machine off the floor to put the mobility kit on, and that really settled it for me.

Instead of spending $250 on a HF pallet jack, I just went to home depot and built this monstrosity with a drill and a contractor chop saw. It is really ugly--drilling straight 14" deep holes with a hand drill was beyond my skills--but it works fine. It's engineered for 2000lbs, so there was plenty of safety margin. The K3 Winner was the bigger of the two machines, and there wasn't any visible deflection when I hoisted it up. Made it nice and easy to install the mobility kit, especially when I found out that the previous owner had glued some washer to the bottom of one corner to level it on his floor and it was partially covering one of the holes for the adjustable leveling feet. I had to lift the whole thing high enough to get a grinder under there and open the hole up.

Total cost was $250 for lumber and hardware, plus about $75 for the chain hoist and straps. Only a little more than the pallet jack would have cost, and IMO it'll be more useful for other purposes. It's wide enough that I can fit a truck or trailer under it in the future to load or unload machinery or large projects. It's also (I hope) going to let me get the motor and impeller up on top of my DC system. Of course if you've already got a proper crane lying around, that would be even better, but this was a reasonably cost-effective solution compared to even a harbor freight gantry ($750 vs. $250), and I'm pleased with how it worked in the end.

Big thanks to the OP and others in this thread for some great ideas for fitting extra stuff to the K3!

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[Andy Giddings]

Congrats on the new machines and your ingenuity, Chris.

[Gene Reynolds]

I've recently (this week) moved from a PM66 to a Hammer K3 Winner. On the PM66 I very often used a cross-cut sled, which has advantages of zero blade clearance plus returning small cut off pieces when retracting. Do sliding table saw users ever use a similar sled mounted to the sliding table to gain the same advantages?

[Rod Sheridan]

I've recently (this week) moved from a PM66 to a Hammer K3 Winner. On the PM66 I very often used a cross-cut sled, which has advantages of zero blade clearance plus returning small cut off pieces when retracting. Do sliding table saw users ever use a similar sled mounted to the sliding table to gain the same advantages?

Hello Gene, I use a deflector wedge for keeping small offcuts out of the rear of the blade. Here's a photo and drawing of the wedge.
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There's also a photo of a "Fritz und Franz" jig for cutting small pieces, ripping narrow strips or odd shaper pieces.

Don't be fooled by pale imitation's you may see on this forum REAL Fritz und Franz jigs have bright green T molding.:D

Here's a link to a Fritz und Franz in use......Rod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk&t=114s

[Chris Parks]

You may like to watch a series of videos by Steve Rowe a contributor to this site who shows some techniques on a slider including this video on the F&F jig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE

Also do a search of this site and have a read of other threads on sliders which will help you as well.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, Steve Rowe's videos are very useful. I recently started watching them and have picked up a few little things that I hadn't discovered on my own. Learning from others can speed the "learning curve" for sure.

[Derek Cohen]

I received a K3 Winner a few weeks ago, and have been setting it up. It has a 1250mm slider - in the USA this would be a 48"x31" .... except it is really 49" long :) This is as large as I can fit in my workshop, half of a double garage (I get to use the other half if I back out my car).

I've been upgrading my machines over the past half dozen years, even though I prefer hand tools. Their is also a Hammer A3-31 jointer/thicknesser (planer) and N4400 bandsaw.

https://s19.postimg.org/cdznzr5pf/image.jpg

I decided to add a router table to this section ...

https://s19.postimg.org/vfisrnn37/router-space1.jpg

The table is melamine-covered pressure-treated chipboard. I am happy to provide details of fitting it if anyone is interested.

https://s19.postimg.org/xgy5eoxwj/image.jpg

The side is reinforced with aluminium plate, screwed to the side of the table and attached to the saw through the bolt holes for the extension bed ...

https://s19.postimg.org/9xr06ty1v/image.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/kbn8mbter/image.jpg

The router table is quite a basic one. I rarely use one, but it is useful to have. Therefore this does not have a lift, but winds up from below. Changing the bit will be aided by a MuscleChuck (http://www.musclechuck.com/product/musclechuck-assembly-collets/), which is on order.

https://s19.postimg.org/whs3uzkir/image.jpg

The K3 replaces a contractor saw I had for the past 20 years. That also had a router table build to the one side. It used the saw fence to position the router table fence. The fence on the K3 is not suitable to do this owing to the large clamp. Consequently, I added T-slots.

The fence is built from aluminium box section with sliding fences (in Hard Maple) ...

https://s19.postimg.org/mzscuxyub/image.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/g5i259677/image.jpg

Dust control is via a 50mm (2") outlet to a Festool CT26e ..

https://s19.postimg.org/4a4yrxvhf/image.jpg

I have just added a zero clearance insert for the blades. There are inserts available for the dado head. This can be used. Felder supplied a 12" Stark 48 tooth combo, and I have since purchased a rip and crosscut, both 12", from Leuco. Minimal use yet, but they look very promising.

The fence now sports a Wixey digital gauge ..

https://s19.postimg.org/omhkg6aw3/image.jpg

Having go this far, I decided to redo all the hosing for the machines, increasing it to 125mm/5" from 100mm/4". I would have liked 6", but there is no point since the 120mm outlets of the Hammer machines would throttle it back. Felder sell 120/120 connectors, and these are perfect to connect 125mm hose as the 120 inlet rides inside the 125mm hose, and then may be clamped down.

I am quite impressed with the dust control on the K3. It is funnelled from the blade inside the saw, and it does so very effectively. The photo below shows a spray of dust that was exited without any help ...

https://s19.postimg.org/q7wu7zl43/image.jpg

This is the inside ...

https://s19.postimg.org/hac4amso3/image.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/pxtx2dvvn/image.jpg

Now to complete an F&F jig, and I can get back to building furniture.

Perhaps some of this will be helpful to a reader.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Gene Reynolds]

I set up my new Hammer K3 Winner (48 x 48) just about 3 weeks ago. I kind of cheated by using my John Deere tractor with pallet forks attached to the bucket to move the pallet with the saw to my shop, and then again to lift the saw from the pallet.
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I attached the dust collection port to my 6" ducting using a blast gate with a secondary hose for the blade guard.
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Like many of you I made a Fritz and Franz jig using UHMW cut to fit the slot in the slider. I know it's not official because the grippy stuff isn't European green but the gum rubber I got from McMaster-Carr works quite well.
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Since I don't have an outrigger table I don't have a crosscut arm at the outfeed end of the slider so I use a simple stop to prevent the upper portion of the F&F jig (I guess that's Fritz) from sliding.

Here I'm using the F&F jig as parallel fences to position and rip 2" strips of 4/4 poplar. The clamps in the middle probably aren't necessary but I feel really comfortable using them with my hands far from the blade.
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This is a big learning curve, especially after many years of cabinet saw use primarily for hardwood furniture, but I'm giving it a go. Thanks to the posters on this and other forums, and YouTube, for making the transition much easier!

[elliot worrall]

Keep this thread going please guys. loving it!


Also, i am thinking about putting this kreg t track and bench clamp system on my assembly table.
https://www.kregtool.com/store/c29/bench-clamps/p396/bench-clamp-system/

Would it work to put a plate mount on each of the Fritz and Franz sliding blocks as a clamping system?

PS: i have a B3 Winner coming and plan to use the edging shoe as end stop.

[Andy Giddings]

Keep this thread going please guys. loving it!


Also, i am thinking about putting this kreg t track and bench clamp system on my assembly table.
https://www.kregtool.com/store/c29/bench-clamps/p396/bench-clamp-system/

Would it work to put a plate mount on each of the Fritz and Franz sliding blocks as a clamping system?

PS: i have a B3 Winner coming and plan to use the edging shoe as end stop.

Elliot, I've never found a need for clamps when you are using the Fritz and Franz. As long as you use some kind of non-slip material on the vertical faces (sandpaper, old bike inner tubes etc) the wood is not going anywhere, even when cutting something like 4ft long hard maple strips from a 8/4 blank. Also any clamp is going to try and push the F & F out of the slot in the sliding table if you're talking about vertical clamping force

[Chris Parks]

Adding to Andy's experience I never used any non slip material on the faces at all and had no problems. My first F&F jig was two bits of 18mm MDF I pulled out of the scrap bin and they lasted a few years.

[elliot worrall]

Thanks guys. I have a saw/shaper, with no power feeder or eccentric clamp. Would it change your answer if it was also used for shaper?

[Andy Giddings]

Thanks guys. I have a saw/shaper, with no power feeder or eccentric clamp. Would it change your answer if it was also used for shaper?

Not sure I would use a F & F jig for a shaper as it wouldn't be secure or safe enough for me - I'd be worried about the material being pulled toward the cutter. If you apply vertical clamping you'll need to also fix the F & F onto the sliding table, effectively making a coping sled

[Chris Parks]

Putting a clamp on the F&F blocks will do nothing as the blocks are not themselves clamped to the table, think about it. Machines as a rule do not worry me but spindle moulders are an exception unless a power feeder or sliding table with clamps are being used. I like to be able to count to ten on my fingers and I'm definitely not into pain.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks guys. I have a saw/shaper, with no power feeder or eccentric clamp. Would it change your answer if it was also used for shaper?

Please don't use Fritz und Franz on the shaper.

If you want to machine small parts on the shaper, buy an Aigner jig or make your own, the parts need to be clamped down.

Hammer/Felder sell the Aigner jig.

http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Moulding/Accessories/For-Your-Safety/Small-Workpiece-Holder-br-Ideal-for-Counter-Profile-Shaping.html

I would also recommend you use a solid break through fence, or fence safety bars.

http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Moulding/Accessories/For-Your-Safety/Safety-bar-guide-self-construction-set.html

I added the Hammer safety bars to my shaper, a great performance and safety improvement............Regards, Rod.

[Chris Parks]

Steve Rowe shows the Aigner Jig


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIF6MC0638c

[Andy Giddings]

Please don't use Fritz und Franz on the shaper.

If you want to machine small parts on the shaper, buy an Aigner jig or make your own, the parts need to be clamped down.

Hammer/Felder sell the Aigner jig.

http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Moulding/Accessories/For-Your-Safety/Small-Workpiece-Holder-br-Ideal-for-Counter-Profile-Shaping.html

I would also recommend you use a solid break through fence, or fence safety bars.

http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Moulding/Accessories/For-Your-Safety/Safety-bar-guide-self-construction-set.html

I added the Hammer safety bars to my shaper, a great performance and safety improvement............Regards, Rod.
I have the jig Rod is referencing - works incredibly well both vertically and horizontally. If you need to hold something larger, it has a big brother which Steve's video uses - just as good. Rod's recommendation on the safety bars is almost a must have.

[scott vroom]

I replaced an old Grizzly G0690 with the K3 49" slider. I erred in not getting the optional scoring unit: the height difference between the slider and the cast iron tables is causing splintering when cutting plywood, much more so on the thinner stock due to vibration. Painter's tape helps but slows me down when making multiple cuts on a large project. Looks like Santa may be delivering a $448 scoring unit soon :D

[elliot worrall]

Of course. Dumb question sorry. I had just been looking at the felder F+F style system that clamps things to the slider.
http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/en-US/en-US/Moulding/Accessories/Spann-und-Klemm-einrichtungen/Clamping-and-saw-system-set.html

Those suggestions (and confirmation) are fantastic thanks. Straight onto the shopping list.

[Derek Cohen]

As many are aware, the F&F jig sits against the rear crosscut fence. However, unless the K3 comes with a outrigger, the crosscut fence is at the other end of the slider. I was considering moving the fence, as Chris had done.

In the end I decided to keep the crosscut fence at the near side, where it can be used for mitres. That meant that the F&F jig would need to be attached without the support of a fence. The solution I came up with is quick to set up and retains its settings.


https://s19.postimg.org/fyiiwctjn/2a.jpg


I used the Incra fences, as Chris had. In for a penny … I rationalised that it will be for the long term :)

Note the black non-slip tape on the faces.


The rear connection is really easy to attach and remove …


https://s19.postimg.org/e51djqd2r/8a.jpg


There are two connections …


https://s19.postimg.org/5zjbll49f/image.jpg


On the t-slot (this has a depth stop for set up) ...


https://s19.postimg.org/honb9j82r/image.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/gp22b3jur/11a.jpg



Hope that this helps others without the outrigger.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[elliot worrall]

I've got some serious F+F envy now Derek!

How do you like the Wixey digital scale btw? Was it easy to set up?

[Jim Becker]

Great solution, Derek!!!

[Chris Parks]

Nice job Derek. If I was to do it again I would set the front block of the jig square and drill two small holes in the table that two pins could be pushed into. If the jig needed to be removed when it is put back on the table put the pins in and push it against them for instant repeatable square alignment. After locking it in position they could be removed. If the jig was made of aluminium the jig block could have the pins as part of the base plate and just drop them into the holes for alignment. The other possibility this presents is using two holes a bar or stop could drop into the holes for the jig to push against and it could stay in position and the front block would not need locking down.

[Rod Sheridan]

If the piece I am cutting is small, the F&F jig just floats, I simply put one hand on one and the other hand on the other piece.

If I need to lock it in place I just put the edging shoe on the slider, very fast and it's out of the way.......Rod.

[Derek Cohen]

I've got some serious F+F envy now Derek!

How do you like the Wixey digital scale btw? Was it easy to set up?

Hi Elliot

The Wixey is a survivor from my previous table saw. It has been reliable and certainly makes it easier to see measurements. Connecting it up was a head scratcher, but in the end (again with Chris' advice), it went on without a hitch. I don't have any detailed photos. This is the only one. You can make out L brackets if you squint ...

https://s19.postimg.org/mtkof96eb/image.jpg

Perhaps Chris will post the ones he sent me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Nice job Derek. If I was to do it again I would set the front block of the jig square and drill two small holes in the table that two pins could be pushed into. If the jig needed to be removed when it is put back on the table put the pins in and push it against them for instant repeatable square alignment. After locking it in position they could be removed. If the jig was made of aluminium the jig block could have the pins as part of the base plate and just drop them into the holes for alignment. The other possibility this presents is using two holes a bar or stop could drop into the holes for the jig to push against and it could stay in position and the front block would not need locking down.

Hi Chris

I already have a mod in mind for my F&F rear fence, which sounds essentially the same as your idea. Basically, I want a depth stop similar to the edging shoe. This will enable the fence to go on-and-off quickly and accurately. I see this replacing the main cross cut fence for many tasks, and therefore it needs to be squared to the blade for accuracy when cross cutting.

The answer is simple: add an L-shaped metal bracket to the wooden base at the blade side (there is already a stop on the other side of the base). Elongate the attachment holes to add fine adjustment when squaring against the saw blade.

A short cross cut fence works for me as I only build furniture in solid wood (although I am now geared back up to finish off a few large - solid wood - panels in the kitchen (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete.html))

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ray Gutnick]

Just wondering what would be the best features/accessories to add to the basic K3 Winner? I know everyone has different requirements, so I'm just looking to see if there is any consensus for "must have" items (some of which I am guessing need to be chosen at the time of ordering the saw). I'm not asking about the size of the slider, but more of what extras that people have added on that are also "winners" :)
Admittedly, part of this question is to help me figure out a budget for the saw.

Thanks in advance

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ray, for myself a slider would need scoring and dado capability.

Anything else can be added later to the Hammer K3 or B3.

For example I used my B3 for a couple of years before adding the outrigger to it............Regards, Rod.

[Chris Parks]

For me it is the fine adjustment rip fence and after you get the saw add a Digital fence such as a Wixey to make full use of the fine adjuster. As Rod said anything can be added later for the same cost so you can try before you buy. I did the same as Rod and added the outrigger later and doing that has some advantages as you finish up with long and short cross cut fences and the flexibility of being able to have those fences at the front or rear and having a cross cut fence without the outrigger on the saw. You also get extra small supports if you don't order the outrigger as well. Using a scoring blade restricts the main blade to 10" so it is best to be aware of that.

[Jesse Brown]

I've had a B3 for about a month, and I really appreciate the outrigger, scoring blade, outfeed extension, and mobility kit. The first thing I made was a Fritz and Franz jig with some adjustable stops, and I use the heck out of it. I ended up with the short crosscut setup as well, and even though I don't use it much, the extra adjustable stop is nice to have.

On the other hand, I have the so-called "professional" rip fence, and I discovered that I rarely use it except as an occasional bump stop. I also don't feel like I need the 48" rip capacity, and I'm ambivalent about the eccentric clamp.

[Chris Parks]

Jesse, can you post a photo of you F&F jig? My bump stop is only as long as the rip fence head, I bought a full length and cut it up and sold the short lengths to other K3 owners. For a short slider I doubt a clamp is necessary, certainly I have never used one but everyone sees the problem differently.

[Jesse Brown]

Not much to look at, but it works great.

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[Chris Parks]

As long as the material is long enough I tend to measure from the rip fence head and use a plain F&F jig though I did make one the same as Andy using Incra fences and flip stops.

[Chris Parks]

Hi Chris

I already have a mod in mind for my F&F rear fence, which sounds essentially the same as your idea. Basically, I want a depth stop similar to the edging shoe. This will enable the fence to go on-and-off quickly and accurately. I see this replacing the main cross cut fence for many tasks, and therefore it needs to be squared to the blade for accuracy when cross cutting.

The answer is simple: add an L-shaped metal bracket to the wooden base at the blade side (there is already a stop on the other side of the base). Elongate the attachment holes to add fine adjustment when squaring against the saw blade.

A short cross cut fence works for me as I only build furniture in solid wood (although I am now geared back up to finish off a few large - solid wood - panels in the kitchen (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete.html))

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, did you ever do this?

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, did you ever do this?

This? ...

https://i.postimg.cc/Dyw6NJxK/8a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/G2cdxkGZ/11a.jpg

I have simplified the F&F since then.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rod Sheridan]

I've had a B3 for about a month, and I really appreciate the outrigger, scoring blade, outfeed extension, and mobility kit. The first thing I made was a Fritz and Franz jig with some adjustable stops, and I use the heck out of it. I ended up with the short crosscut setup as well, and even though I don't use it much, the extra adjustable stop is nice to have.

On the other hand, I have the so-called "professional" rip fence, and I discovered that I rarely use it except as an occasional bump stop. I also don't feel like I need the 48" rip capacity, and I'm ambivalent about the eccentric clamp.

Hi Jesse, I ordered mine with the smaller rip capacity, and the full table.

I use the eccentric clamp a lot on the shaper for coping and cutting tenons..........Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Not much to look at, but it works great.

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Mine is "very similar"...

[Chris Parks]

My first one was two bits of MDF, no handle and no integral fence and I used that for about two years.

[Rod Sheridan]

Most F&F jigs are far snazzier than mine................Rod.
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[David Stone (CT)]

To the question of what are the best additions to the basic K3 saw. The one thing I'd rate an absolute must-have is a proper zero-clearance table insert. The stock one has a ridiculously big gap that not only invites chipout but is borderline hazardous since narrow-ish offcuts are apt to get yanked down into the works and dust chute at high speed, which can a little startling (not to mention, a hassle to fish out). I have a shopmade phenolic zero clearance insert and only use the factory one for bevel cuts.

IMO, some kind of rugged eccentric clamp with a good reach is also a necessity to have on hand for certain crosscut operations and fixtures. There are various kinds of simpler/lighter/cheaper hold downs that can work much of the time and the clever jigs people are showing in this thread are great. But especially if you use the fence in the leading position on the table and have the workpiece behind, or are making a cut with the crosscut fence other that at 90% to the blade, there are going to be some situations where it's not safe to hold the piece with your hands and the F&F jig is not applicable. I don't know what clamp, if any, comes standard now, but back in the day the Hammer branded eccentric clamp was a little rudimentary. It worked but was a bit fussy and clunky. I ended up buying the Felder one, which is easier to set (albeit super heavy).

Finally, I know you said you're not asking about the size of the slider, but some food for thought anyway. I have the 79 inch table and outrigger, which I think is the best all around combo, in terms of having enough travel to make longish rip type cuts and crosscut wider panels, especially with the fence angled (the effective capacity is greatly reduced when the fence is at 45), and enough outboard support to deal easily with heavy panels or long boards. Another advantage vs. the shorter table--one that I have seldom seen mentioned--is that when the sliding table is locked for ripping using the rip fence, the 79 inch table has enough length projecting outward past the blade to serves as an effective outfield table. This is important since the nature of sliding table saws is that you can't locate a conventional fixed outfield table to the left to the blade because that's where the slider needs free space to roam.

[Howard Dean]

Hi Mike,

I'm curious as to what else you have learned since your purchase. I am in the market for a table saw and am considering a Hammer K3. One of my main concerns is repeatable, fast and accurate rip cuts. Some use the rip fence (either with the edge of the board resting on the slightly elevated slider or just short of it); some use a fritz and franz jig (but how do you ensure consistent width without fiddling?); and some use a parallel guide system. What is you experience to date?

Howard

[Rod Sheridan]

I’m not Mike however I’ve had a B3 for 12 years, I use the rip fence, with a Fritz und Franz if the piece is small, for safety reasons.

The 4 function rip fence is great, improves safety when ripping solid wood as it can be set to end at the arbour or closer to the infeed of the blade if desired…..Rod

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks Rod. Did you build your own F&F?

[Jim Becker]

Many thanks Rod. Did you build your own F&F?

Pretty much everyone does. There are some great threads here at SMC on various versions of the F&F and other fixtures for sliders.

[Howard Dean]

Thank you Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Howard, you'll find that a slider is really adaptable to a lot of very kewel fixturing that combined with the way the wagon moves past the blade, brings big safety and really great cut quality. No hands are involved in holding the material which means greatly reduced blade marking, etc. I'm really finding it painful to be temporarily using a cabinet saw until I can get a new shop building up. I got so used to the overall utility of the slider that I miss it dearly!

There's a relatively new thread in Workshops right now by Kevin J that shows a very nice adaptation of some angle cutting fixtures, BTW.

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks Jim. This is certainly a learning process. The sales rep is putting together a couple of quotes for me — one for the 48x48 and one for the 79x48. As of today I’m leaning towards the latter. There have been too many times I’ve opted for the smaller tool, thinking I could get by with it and save some money. But I usually regret it later. Life is short.

[Jim Becker]

Steve Wurster, as I've mentioned, has the 79" version and it's a sweet machine. I believe he commented to you about this shop size which is very modest..I've been in it physically as he lives nearby. (He actually helped me with my shop move this past summer) He does great work with his machinery and aside from skilz...he has things very organized so that the machinery works in the space he has available. While I believe you'd be happy with either size, I think you'll be even happier with the longer version, honestly.

[Rod Sheridan]

Many thanks Rod. Did you build your own F&F?

Of course, mine is very basic, no stops or scales…..Rod

[Chris Parks]

Hi Mike,

I'm curious as to what else you have learned since your purchase. I am in the market for a table saw and am considering a Hammer K3. One of my main concerns is repeatable, fast and accurate rip cuts. Some use the rip fence (either with the edge of the board resting on the slightly elevated slider or just short of it); some use a fritz and franz jig (but how do you ensure consistent width without fiddling?); and some use a parallel guide system. What is you experience to date?

Howard

I put a Wixey on the rip fence for that specific reason, I can return to the same dimension without fiddling. I rarely use the rip fence as such, I bought an extra rip fence and cut it up into 300mm lengths and sold all of them except one and that lives on the rip fence head as a measuring bump stop. If I was doing it as a new owner I would cut 300mm off the supplied rip fence as the fence is way longer than needed. Using the short length means that you don't have to walk around the thing when it is retracted as it should be to the middle of the blade and all up it is a way better way to work and the long fence can be installed in literally 30 seconds. It also clears the entire table area to the right of the blade for cut offs etc. The one thing I have learned above all else is how crude cabinet saws are to work with and I am one of the fortunate people who don't have to work with one because not everyone is as fortunate as us slider owners.

[Chris Parks]

Most F&F jigs are far snazzier than mine................Rod.
406780

I don't even have a handle on mine.

[Greg Quenneville]

I put a Wixey on the rip fence for that specific reason, I can return to the same dimension without fiddling. I rarely use the rip fence as such, I bought an extra rip fence and cut it up into 300mm lengths and sold all of them except one and that lives on the rip fence head as a measuring bump stop. If I was doing it as a new owner I would cut 300mm off the supplied rip fence as the fence is way longer than needed. Using the short length means that you don't have to walk around the thing when it is retracted as it should be to the middle of the blade and all up it is a way better way to work and the long fence can be installed in literally 30 seconds. It also clears the entire table area to the right of the blade for cut offs etc. The one thing I have learned above all else is how crude cabinet saws are to work with and I am one of the fortunate people who don't have to work with one because not everyone is as fortunate as us slider owners.

I have a full combo so need to keep the full length of the extrusion for the planer (jointer). So I bought a small piece of 40mm extrusion from one of the usual suspects…it slides right over my Felder's mounting bar and is plenty rigid.

[Michael Drew]

If anyone is interested in zero clearance insert for the K3, this guy makes them, and they look very well made. He has a YouTube channel, and has thorough video detailing his process. He also has a few tips videos. https://ramonvaldezfinefurniture.com/product/zero-clearance-insert-for-felder-hammer-k-3-winner/

I think I might order a couple. Not cheap, but I doubt I could build one any better than he does.

I'm also curious how others with this saw has their machines set up with filler and outfeed tables? I'm not all that impressed with supplied side tables. I must have spent half a day trying to get them mounted and level yesterday. I'm thinking about just making a cabinet with a laminated top and ditching the supplied metal pieces.

[Howard Dean]

Hi Michael. I bought a couple. Very well made. I had to file down both ends a bit to fit the saw, probably because he makes the inserts to fit his saw. For an outfeed table I use a 4x7’ MFT/router table/ storage table that I built using extruded aluminum. I designed it to be the same height as the saw. It has casters that lock in place and which I can unlock if I want to move the table. I purchased the aluminum from a company called Faztek. You sketch out a design and a designer creates a digital image for you. Once you agree on the design they tell you the price and, if you agree, they ship the parts to you. It was more expensive than I anticipated (about $1,800 including shipping), but it’s lightweight and strong. The only thing I didn’t like is that you receive bags and bags of parts with no instructions. I spent some time on the phone with them. Once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty smoothly.

[Michael Drew]

Thanks Howard. I just ordered a couple of his ZCIs. I'll have to look into the Faztek. Thanks for the tip.

[Steve Wurster]

If anyone is interested in zero clearance insert for the K3, this guy makes them, and they look very well made. He has a YouTube channel, and has thorough video detailing his process. He also has a few tips videos. https://ramonvaldezfinefurniture.com/product/zero-clearance-insert-for-felder-hammer-k-3-winner/

I think I might order a couple. Not cheap, but I doubt I could build one any better than he does.

I'm also curious how others with this saw has their machines set up with filler and outfeed tables? I'm not all that impressed with supplied side tables. I must have spent half a day trying to get them mounted and level yesterday. I'm thinking about just making a cabinet with a laminated top and ditching the supplied metal pieces.

I have a couple of Ramon's ZCIs as well, and like Howard I had to modify them slightly to get them to fit. Well, actually, they fit fine if you moved the sliding table all the way to the left (rear) when inserting or removing the ZCI. That's the opposite of where you need to put the table when changing the blade, so that seemed wrong. A small modification to the bottom of the ZCI near the front edge of the saw fixed the problem.

As for the side extension tables, I don't remember having too much problem getting them aligned. I don't really have room for an outfeed table, but I do have one of the small Hammer extensions hanging off the back of my saw in order to prevent longer pieces from falling to the floor. Most of the time the keeper piece is on the sliding table, so a full-fledged outfeed doesn't seem *completely* necessary. That being said, if I had more room then I would probably build a little outfeed table with storage and possibly a router.

[Kevin Wells]

Gene,
I haven’t found the need for an adaptation of a cross-cut sled. I have learned that the sliding table is an “ultra” CCS in that it rides on bearings and has essentially zero play or side to side deflection. The rip cuts I get are glue up ready and with the addition of a F&F jig (mentioned elsewhere) I can cross-cut small pieces, rip long pieces (with less than .005” difference in width over 60”), I can cut repeatable tapers using the F&F jig (no taper jig needed). I feel much safer since my hands are to the left of the blade and never in line with the blade. I have the outrigger and this allows me to cross cut long pieces with no problem and I can angle the outriggers fence to cut miters and bring it back to zero within a minute using a 16” machinists square I got off of the Grizzly site. I have no regrets with my purchase of the K3 slider over a cabinet saw and am finding more and more unique and useful ways of using it. I hope you come to the same conclusion after using your slider for a while.

[Chris Parks]

There is no need to use a square when returning the fence to zero that I know of as the zero stop sorts that out. Something I have done is put a bolt in the top of the zero stop and use that to adjust zero, the bolt must have the end machined or made flat so turning it does not effectively alter the length of the bolt. The top hole in the zero stop is already threaded for a metric 8mm?? bolt from memory and why Hammer do not use the top hole has always puzzled me.