Getting a Black Walnut Tree - Help/Suggestions appreciated

[David B Thornton]

So I came across somebody wanting to get rid of their standing black walnut tree for free. I instantly jumped on it and just got back a few hours ago from taking a look at it. It's about 6' to the crotch and here's the rest of the details on it:

Diameter at Base - 20"
Diameter at chest level - 18"
Left Branch Diameter - 14"
Right Branch Diameter - 13-1/2"

It's approximately 50' tall. It seems pretty healthy and although it's somewhat smaller, the lady wants it gone, so I'm going to cut it down and get it milled. This will be the 1st time I've done this, so I'm really new to this whole process.

I'm going to probably figure out a way to get it taken to a local sawyer to doing the milling. Can anybody provide some good direction/suggestions on how I should go about this?

Should I slab the trunk to the crotch (~6 feet) or make it into shorter dimensional lumber? I also know that I can find a lot of good wood on this to use on my lathe, but like I said, I'm green and don't really know what I'm doing quite yet.

Also, it looks like woodpeckers have ravaged the tree, is that going to make it less desirable (I'm thinking it will allow rot/bugs in to cause damage). The lady said it's about 30-35 years old.

Appreciate all the help!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qOoLmEGQToA/VUKh0uh5zBI/AAAAAAAAEhM/exgXFMYKe7k/w499-h665-no/IMG_20150430_144217.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HBL80ZsqeHE/VUKhwZlGFDI/AAAAAAAAEhA/dT50G-jsiUU/w499-h665-no/IMG_20150430_144211.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ahc4ioBdYjA/VUKiEFye2jI/AAAAAAAAEhk/3UJl7sI0xlU/w499-h665-no/IMG_20150430_144234.jpg

[Fred Belknap]

Are you sure that is a black walnut???

[Jason Mikits]

If you're going to take it to have it milled leaving it longer would be better. Beware that yard trees often have hardware in them and that a sawyer will charge for blades ruined in the process, usually ~$25 for band saws. Also beware that it is impossible to get Black walnut (Juglans nigra) lumber from a tree that is not black walnut. ;)

[Jim Matthews]

Any pictures of the leaves handy?

http://www.nemahaweb.com/blackwalnuts/trees.htm

The bark looks a little 'smooth' by comparison to the following photos...

http://treebarkid.com/index.php/walnut

How far from the house, property line, power lines is this tree?

Where I live, trees like this are taken down with a bucket truck rather than simply felled.
If you've never done this before, and you're near any structures
they will draw it to them like a magnet.

FWIW - the amount of material you're likely to reclaim versus your cost is low.

If it was me, I would pay to have somebody drop it and take it to the sawmill.

Something this big carries a deadly consequence to the unwary, unprepared or unlucky.

At chest height - if it's 30 inches in diameter, this thing will weigh on the order of 5 tons.
http://www.uaex.edu/publications/pdf/FSA-5021.pdf

[John C Bush]

Hi David.
Looks like fun!! I know a great sawyer up in Oso. Pm me and I will get his # for you.

[Pat Barry]

Do a search on Google. You should be able to find someone with a portable sawmill who can get it done right where the tree is. Save you lots of work

[Jim Dwight]

In terms of what to do with it, recognize that the crotch area will have some lovely but somewhat challenging grain. It would make a great top for a table or something like that. I would have it sawed into slabs and dream up a project for it. The limbs are large and should probably be converted to lumber but anything that was leaning on the tree will be less stable than wood from a straight trunk. Growth rings will be thicker on the side with higher stress. So you are likely to see higher warpage during drying and may not get a lot of usable lumber from the limbs - or they might be OK. They don't seem to be leaning a lot. The point about figure in crotches applies to the limbs too, of course. The smaller crotches further up might make nice turning pieces.

I am no tree expert but I agree with the other comments. I would want to know why the owner thinks it is a walnut.

[Stan Calow]

If woodpeckers have been at it, that may mean its already buggy.

[cody michael]

if it's walnut you need to remember you are not going to get alot of the dark walnut wood from a 12in piece, you have 2-3 inches of white sapwood on the outside, I have lumbered some trees that size in the past and you don't get a whole lot out of them. but the wood is beautiful and cheap!

[Jim Andrew]

If you plan to cut the tree down yourself, go to forestry forum, and look at the area where they explain how to cut down trees safely. Personally, I'd cut it down and saw it with my mill. I cut up several walnut trees last Feb, March.

[Justin Ludwig]

Doesn't look like any black walnut I've ever seen.

[Jim Andrew]

Agree, the bark does not look like walnut, but it is wood. I'd saw it just to find out what is inside.

[Wes Ramsey]

Looks a lot like maple...

[David B Thornton]

Hmm, I'm only going off of what the lady says for it being a black walnut. If most don't think it's actually one, what's the best way to actually find out what it is? There's a few limbs lower down on the tree that I can take a saw to and clean up the end grain to see what's in there.

Here's a picture of the flowers that were on the ground, which looks like walnut flowers to me:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-x0M5vEfbtZ0/VUKjcX3OL7I/AAAAAAAAEiY/6LEtbVQe8mc/w679-h905-no/IMG_20150430_144849.jpg

[Justin Ludwig]

A sprig of leaves would be most helpful. Many trees have similar catkin flowers.

[Jim Andrew]

If you see any dead twigs sticking out of the log, break one off and look at the broken end. Should be brown

[David B Thornton]

I'll take another trip out there today and try to get a peek at the inside of the tree. But, as long as I don't pay somebody a bunch of money to down the tree (Hoping my dad can do it), the worst that could happen is I have firewood.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Please make sure you know how to air dry it properly (seal the end grain and sticker it). My friends dad cut a walnut tree down and had a portable sawmill cut it into rough planks. He then just piled them up in a shed.

The horror....

Twists, checks, crooks, and bows, oh my. It was a real tragedy. I ended up taking all of it, bit half went straight to waste, and another quarter of it in my dust bin as wood chips just to get flat stock. I was really sad that so much got wasted, and a ton of work to deal with it.

Dont let this happen to you!

[David B Thornton]

Any pictures of the leaves handy?

http://www.nemahaweb.com/blackwalnuts/trees.htm

The bark looks a little 'smooth' by comparison to the following photos...

http://treebarkid.com/index.php/walnut

How far from the house, property line, power lines is this tree?

Where I live, trees like this are taken down with a bucket truck rather than simply felled.
If you've never done this before, and you're near any structures
they will draw it to them like a magnet.

FWIW - the amount of material you're likely to reclaim versus your cost is low.

If it was me, I would pay to have somebody drop it and take it to the sawmill.

Something this big carries a deadly consequence to the unwary, unprepared or unlucky.

At chest height - if it's 30 inches in diameter, this thing will weigh on the order of 5 tons.
http://www.uaex.edu/publications/pdf/FSA-5021.pdf

The tree is far enough from the house that if the worst happened, a few small branches may hit the house. There's a shed behind the tree about 30 feet and the other direction is clear sailing. As long as the tree goes the direction that it should, no damage of any kind could happen. I'm going to look into somebody professional downing it for me, but still doing my research at this time.

[David B Thornton]

Please make sure you know how to air dry it properly (seal the end grain and sticker it). My friends dad cut a walnut tree down and had a portable sawmill cut it into rough planks. He then just piled them up in a shed.

The horror....

Twists, checks, crooks, and bows, oh my. It was a real tragedy. I ended up taking all of it, bit half went straight to waste, and another quarter of it in my dust bin as wood chips just to get flat stock. I was really sad that so much got wasted, and a ton of work to deal with it.

Dont let this happen to you!

Oh I've done a considerable amount of reading on how to properly air dry the lumber. I'm going to turn an area of my parent's property into the place that I'll dry it at. Still have more research to do on that portion, but I've got a good idea so far.

[Bill McNiel]

David,
If you want to hire a "faller", PM me. I have a young man who just dropped several 70' Alders for me that were leaning badly towards my neighbor's property. He did a great job of topping and falling them safely and accurately. I'm pretty sure he will drive up to your area.

[David Utterback]

I just finished harvesting 3 walnut trees that were felled by professionals. It was a bear to handle the larger logs but I finally wrangled them onto a trailer (by myself) that had a winch. There was really only one good lumber log but the feller cut off 3 feet at the base to get his stump grinder where it needed to go. What a waste. It sounds like others are leading you to mills so that should go smoothly. You should have a nice little stash when it is all dried. If you cut it 4/4 thick, air drying will take a year if stickered properly. 8/4 would take at least 2 years. You also want to use the same species for your stickers or you may get staining. We have used pvc pipe for stickers but they can be unstable and roll a bit. We bent them a little which helped. If you decide to go that way, be sure to apply the heat in a well ventilated space because the plastic will give off vapors when hot.

Good luck!
David

[David B Thornton]

Ok, just got back from looking at the tree again, found a few nuts from last year strewn about, grabbed a few small branches with new leaves on them (Not many down low). There was also an old branch that was trimmed at some point sticking out about 6" coming off of one of the main branches. I cut that piece off and then cut it in half on the bandsaw when I got home. Here's some pics:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-swzBBZ-kY8k/VUQEt7tNAbI/AAAAAAAAEpk/pxCe4_Rs9nI/w679-h905-no/IMG_20150501_155538.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fy5Evuffat0/VUQEbfznsoI/AAAAAAAAEpY/k8O_ymiM76c/w679-h905-no/IMG_20150501_155526.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kOt4cnhzytY/VUQDb-MUIJI/AAAAAAAAEow/8aML9_Qr8fA/w679-h905-no/IMG_20150501_155114.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NRlN95MV5M8/VUQFDLZHj8I/AAAAAAAAEp8/IUN-425FmBQ/w1207-h905-no/IMG_20150501_155800.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_hLzBHy12gE/VUP0EbJbNoI/AAAAAAAAEkw/gDqVOC9zBlI/w679-h905-no/IMG_20150501_144408.jpg

[Jim Matthews]

Sure look like Walnuts, to me.

[Matt Day]

The lady probably knows it's walnut from all the walnuts that fall from it, don't ya think? ;-)

Looks like a fun project and your doing your homework!

[lawrence dosson]

looks like an English walnut ?
black walnut is different but the wood looks like a good find either way

[daryl moses]

looks like an English walnut ?
black walnut is different but the wood looks like a good find either way
You nailed it. Not sure about the English Walnut it probably is but those nuts are NOT Black Walnut.

[Don Sundberg]

Looks like English walnut to me. Black walnuts are smaller, round, rough textured, and very dark.

[David B Thornton]

Looks like English walnut to me. Black walnuts are smaller, round, rough textured, and very dark.

It probably is. There was also some smaller darker ones laying around too, I didn't grab those because I thought maybe they were just decomposing. Maybe there's another walnut tree next to it? Either way, as long as I can safely get the tree down, I'll be making some lumber/bowl blanks from the tree. This will be more of an experience for me as I understand I might not get enough wood from it to be highly beneficial, but who knows.

[scott vroom]

The leaves and nuts are English Walnut.

[julian abram]

Yep, that is definitely not a black walnut.

[Jim Andrew]

Way Cool! English walnut!

[Myk Rian]

You only have about 5' of usable wood. The branches are firewood.

[John TenEyck]

Yep, a short length of viable trunk that will yield a few BF of heart wood. Unless I needed firewood, I wouldn't give that tree a second look. Don't get me wrong, English oak is beautiful wood, there just isn't enough in that tree to make it worth the effort.

John

[Yonak Hawkins]

You only have about 5' of usable wood. The branches are firewood.

It's not easy to tell from the photo but that one limb may be vertical enough to be usable.

[Tim Streagle]

If you ever get a bonafide black walnut tree log don't worry about insects - they generally have a high resistance to them and the bugs are usually limited to the sapwood. Older trees can hollow out badly but they are usually easy to spot. Black Walnut logs are much heavier than most other species. Walnut is tough on milling saw blades. End sealing and stickering is important of course, but the walnut does not stain easily during storage unless it gets wet. Walnut logs can be kept whole for long periods and milled later if necessary. Just keep them off the ground. I've seen large logs sprout leaves years after they were felled!

Older walnuts have a larger heartwood to sapwood ratio of course.

[Jim Andrew]

I saw my own logs, and logs degrade. If I had that tree, and it had to be cut down, would cut it and then saw it asap. Logs crack from the ends, and sides toward the center as they dry. Moisture keeps the log from cracking, so storing a log it should be kept wet. If those upper limbs are fairly straight up, would saw them as well, if they are a decent diameter that will yield some good width boards. Get the boards stacked and stickered asap, put some weight on top of the pile, and you will have some good lumber in a year or so.

[David Helm]

Definitely English Walnut. It is a little small, but some of the best walnut I have ever used was English. The heartwood colors range from grey to brown to purple. I generally like it better than most Black Walnut. The smoothish bark was a give away before even seeing the leaves and catkins.

[Cody Colston]

YMMV but in my opinion, that tree is only good for firewood.

[Jim Matthews]

While I would not counsel walking away from free lumber,
those that have done this sort of thing before have
been pretty clear about the yield to expect.

In my limited experience in harvesting local Beech,
limbs are useless for woodworking - there's too much
reaction wood, twisting grain and internal stress to yield
useable planks.

At 18" diameter - breast high, this is a heavy - dangerous job with little upside.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

I'd cut into chunks for turning stock.

probably not large enough to hassle with making lumber out of it.

[David C. Roseman]

I'd cut into chunks for turning stock.

probably not large enough to hassle with making lumber out of it.

Late to this thread, but I agree with Shawn. If you have a lathe, this tree would give you months of very nice turning stock, including many beautiful bowls. The strong contrast in the heartwood and sapwood of English Walnut and American Black Walnut can make for very nice effects in turned bowls. The lighter sapwood will form symmetric wings up opposite sides of the bowl when cut and mounted on the lathe with that in mind. The wood at the crotch will give you some very interesting figure in turned objects. These same features that make it so attractive for woodturning can make that tree challenging to salvage for flat work, and will reduce the yield significantly if the goal is lumber with uniform grain and color.

If you don't already have a lathe, perhaps this is a great excuse for a new tool and a new dimension to your woodworking. ;) If you contact a local turning club, I'll bet you'll find a lot of interest in helping you harvest this tree. You'll likely make some new woodworking friends in the process.

[ryan paulsen]

You say you're new to this...are you new to felling trees? If so, my first attempt at it would not be on someone else's property. It looks a little crowded around that tree (other trees, bushes, and such) which may get damaged if you drop the tree on them. I think dropping the tree for only the wood is a little sweet of a deal for the owner. I would say it would be more reasonable (and safer) for her to hire (with insurance!) a company to drop the tree, and you do the ground work for the wood. Your good deed could turn into a disaster right quick, especially with a split trunk tree like that. I'm not lumberjack, but I've dropped 20-30 trees, and seen some strange things happen.

Good luck, and keep us posted on what you decide!

[Larry Temins]

I have a black walnut tree in my backyard. I planted it when it was about 1 foot tall (big mistake) and it is now at least 50 feet in height. When I saw the first picture posted I also questioned if it was in fact a black walnut but the flower certainly looks like what comes off my tree. Over the years as I pruned a few of the limbs I used the wood for turnings.

[David B Thornton]

I want to thank everybody for their input on this, it's been really helpful. As of right now, I'm seeing if I can find a reasonably priced tree service to fell the tree and then get the base milled into lumber and the branches into turning stock. I know this may not be the most advantageous tree for this, but we all know how it is to be excited about something new in woodworking. So if it will work out financially, I'm going to go ahead and go for it. If I can't find somebody reasonably priced to fell it, I'll most likely pass on it.

I did start from the "I'll have my dad come help fell it as he has done hundreds", to "maybe it's a good idea to pay somebody to do it in case something goes wrong". I'll keep everybody updated with what I decide to do.

I'm also in the beginning stages of planning my homemade bandsaw mill and the lady said she's not in any sort of hurry. So if I can get one built, I can also save a few $$ in getting it milled. But, this is all just "plans" at the moment, so we'll see where it ends up.

[James White]

David,

If you would like to get a visual of what kind of yield to expect. Then the following may help. If the Crotch is 6' high then the diameter you need is going to be at 3' high. That is due to the flair of the base and the crotch. So being optimistic lets say it is 17". So get a piece of cardboard and draw a 17" diameter circle. Then draw an 11-12" diameter circle inside of that. That is to allow for the sapwood. Which is likely to be buggy. Since that is why the woodpeckers are working on it. Then a draw a 4" diameter circle in the center. The four inch center will represent the early wood or pith and is not stable enough for furniture. Now you can start drawing slices of at least 1-1/8" across the set of circles. Anything outside the 4" circle but inside the 12" circle can be expected to be good usable heartwood. I hope that makes some sense. But keep in mind that this is a rough estimate.

James