Rip, Join, Plow & Those Wascally Wabbets

[Jim Koepke]

This started out when another member sent me a PM asking about ripping with a hand saw. Since a current project included ripping some lumber it was only natural to take some pictures.

Start off with a fat pencil line:

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This can be done a lot of ways. A combination square is a good guide for this kind of work.
Not seen in the picture is a dog holding the far end. The block of wood against a dog can be seen near my hand. Otherwise the plank could move around and make marking difficult.

Set up a pair of saw benches and let 'er rip:

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My left hand is holding a 30/60 triangle made of ash. It is about a 1/2" thick. It is kind of like training wheels. It isn't used much, but it helped me stay square when first learning to rip lumber.

It took me less than four minutes to get through a 3/4" X 6' cut in some pine. The saw is 6 ppi. Pine is fairly soft stuff.

The cut off will be ripped again and used to make a frame and panel door for this project.

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Not perfect, but that is why there are planes:

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There weren't any pictures taken of plowing the slot for the back panel.

There weren't any pictures taken of rabbeting the ends of the tail boards. This was done later on a piece of scrap and will be in the next post.

[Jim Koepke]

An important step in the early part of many woodworking projects is to square the components:

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This was done to all the pieces in the project. This piece is from the end of the lumber. The ends of the tail boards are being rabbeted to the depth of the slot so it will be hidden inside the dovetail joint.

A marking gauge, Tite Mark, was set to the thickness of the pin boards and used to scribe a line all around. Then a square and a knife were used to deepen the scribe mark on the side where the rabbet is to be cut:

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This will be the edge of the rabbet.

Next is setting up the rabbet plane. In my case this plane has done a lot of rabbeting of late so the blade was honed. My method of setting the blade is to lay the plane on its side on the edge of my bench and press the plane and blade against the bench. For some unknown reason the blade always seems to be just a hair proud of the side of the plane. If this didn't work, my next try would have a sheet or two of paper in front of and in back of the blade while doing this. give it a try and see what happens. This is how my shoulder plane is set when it is going from side to side in use.

The plane is then lined up with the scribe mark:

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The fence is then set. The depth stop was rotated for clarity. Notice the blade is a hair, or two, proud of the side of the plane.

Moving right along:

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This actually goes fairly fast and then it is done:

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The knife line is visible and the wall from the side of the blade is just a little fuzzy.

This is easy to clean up with a chisel or a shoulder plane:

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It is real easy to clean up with a side rabbet:

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After all the clean up and checking for square and fit with the pin board it was time to mark out the tails:

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Since this is something that has been built in the past, a story stick has the tail layout.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks much, Jim. Good explanation.

[Jim Koepke]

Something came to mind when reading over my first post in this thread. It is helpful with shooting, squaring, marking and other procedures to use one surface of the lumber as the base reference to which all others are square or parallel.

Also sometimes during a rip cut the sawing angle is lowered to cut a kerf on the line. It seem to help guide the saw at times.

jtk

[Chuck Hart]

I'll be damned Jim I put that plane on it's side lined up the blade and that old Record 78 of mine start cutting like it was new. I need to take the nicker off and sharpen the blade to a sharper edge but it worked well. Thanks that got a nuisance plane off my fix list.

Chuck

[Jim Matthews]

When I make long rips, I make two lines parallel.

It helps me keep things straight.
My favorite rip saw has enough
plate flex that I can 'twist' it
back to square.

Since few boards in my shop are cut longer than 40"
this can be done upright, in a vise.

JK's method is faster.
Mine saves my back.

[Evan Patton]

Great stuff! Thanks for posting.

[Pat Barry]

Cool. Nice to see your methods Jim. By the way, that pine looks great. Where do you get it? Not at HD I assume.

[Jim Koepke]

The pine comes from a building supply store. It is about the same price as 1X12 'white wood' from the Borgs. They also have a #3 pine that is half the price.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK guys - Next trick[s]:

How do you make a 2d rip cut to end up with a board that is X" wide?

What about if you need two identical boards?

I'm asking because those tasks are trivial with electron-burning gear..........

[Jim Koepke]

What is a 2d rip cut?

If two identical sized boards are wanted, then Jim Mattews method works for me. Then the two pieces can be planed together to make them match.

My pursuit of exact measurement was abandoned years ago. Working with eighths and quarters of an inch has produced better results than trying for thirty seconds and sixty fourths. Of course all the practice and learning has also helped in improving my results.

I would not be able to tell you how long the pieces for my project are with any accuracy. I can tell you the side pieces or the top and bottom are within a few thousandths of each other after a visit to the shooting board. FWIW, the finished dimensions will end up at about 21" X 12-1/2".

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

What is a 2d rip cut?

If two identical sized boards are wanted, then Jim Mattews method works for me. Then the two pieces can be planed together to make them match.



Jim - I meant cutting, say, a 4" board out of the middle of a wider board, for example. I misunderstood Jim's post - I thought he meant he was drawing 2 lines close to each other, like guardrails for one cut.

Understand planing 2 boards together - that is what I figgered - thought I'd ask.

[Jim Koepke]

I meant cutting, say, a 4" board out of the middle of a wider board, for example.

If two pieces approximately half the width of the original, then set up a marking gauge to a little less than half the width and mark a line from each edge and saw in between them. Alternately if one has a plow plane with an 1/8" blade, plow a kerf down the middle and use that as a guide.

Another likelihood is some will use a 12X to get two pieces of quarter sawn material by cutting out the center.

The first time with a long board won't be perfect. Don't let a little off line sawing ruin your day or your project.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

DOH!!!

Anyone notice my error? :mad:

It doesn't really matter for this project.

This is my first time of using a deep rabbet with dovetails.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

If I want a board of a certain width, I start by truing one edge. A lot of you guys can probably do that by eye, but I have a fence that goes on my #7 to help keep things square. Once one edge is trued up I put a square against it, and use a pencil to mark the width of the board I want, sliding the pencil and square together down the length of the board. Then I just rip to the line. You have to take into account the little bit of waste you will have when you true up the second edge.

I agree it helps if you are a little agnostic about the finished dimension, and others may have better ways to do it, but that is the way that works for me.

I saw Roy Underhill demonstrate in one of the episodes of his show several different methods of ripping a board. He called one the French method if I remember correctly, and you basically sit on the board and scoot along while you are ripping. I do that sometimes with long rips, because it mixes up the muscles you are using, and it might be something that would work for people with back problems.

The first couple of times I tried it I did not like it, but once I figured out the saw angle and hand position, I thought it worked well, and although I prefer putting a knee on the board and ripping that way, for me the French method or whatever is still superior to the way I used to do it using a front vise (which limits the length of what you can rip) or clamping the board to overhang the front of the bench (it just always seemed the saw was at an awkward height for me that way).

[Jim Koepke]

If anyone is interested my mistake was the pin side, at least on this project, should have the rabbet to the depth of the plowed slot. On this cabinet there will be molding to cover up the side view of the dovetails.

Since this is the first time for me making dovetails with rabbeted ends it seemed like a good idea to check the thickness to make sure they are all the same:

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A few tails were a couple shavings fat. So they got trimmed with a Stanley #140:

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Marking the tails was next:

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The reference side is the back, notice the slot for the back of the cabinet. The tail board and pin board are held in square for the marking. Being able to clamp to an apron is a good reason to have at least a shallow apron. This allows clamping to either the top of the bench or the side of the bench. Of course there are other ways this can be accomplished.

It is also a good idea to keep an eye on everything. It is easy to bump and move something. Your markings will let you know if something has moved. Better to take a second or two now than have a problem later. Check twice you know...

The pin boards will be on the top and bottom and depending on how the finished cabinet is used it may be visible. For this reason my scribe on the outside of the pin board is limited to the area of the waste to be cut out:

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The top mark was darkened with a pencil for visibility. The inside won't show so it gets scribed with a line covering most of the side.

After that it was mostly sawing to the line, removing the waste (coping or fret saw & chisel) and checking the fit:

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So far so good and it is also nice and flat on the back. That is always a good feature if something is going to hang on a wall.

Still need to make the back and some molding. There are also some experiments to try invisible or blind nailing on the molding.

jtk

[Judson Green]

Jim - I meant cutting, say, a 4" board out of the middle of a wider board, for example. I misunderstood Jim's post - I thought he meant he was drawing 2 lines close to each other, like guardrails for one cut.

Understand planing 2 boards together - that is what I figgered - thought I'd ask.

I have clamped boards together to gang plane to the same thickness.

[Jim Koepke]

I misunderstood Jim's (Ms) post - I thought he meant he was drawing 2 lines close to each other, like guardrails for one cut.

[edited for brevity]

Didn't quite respond to this the first time around.

I think the "guardrail" concept is what was meant.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have clamped boards together to gang plane to the same thickness.


Yeah - I think I'm onto the game now:

Layout and saw first rip cut for a couple boards
Clamp & joint the new edges at the same time.
Layout and saw the next two rip cuts
Clamp & joint those new edges, paying attention to the "parallelism" with the first edges.

Learn to manage the difference between the pencil line[s] and the saw kerf, so you can get "home" with a finished dimension that is - pragmatically - accurate, meaning: Table aprons don't know 1/16"- 1/8" off plan from shinola.

Make a guide/reference device like Jim's to help keep saw normal to board's surface, as an aid to gain experience.


Thanks guys; very helpful


Kent

[Judson Green]

Yeah - I think I'm onto the game now:

Layout and saw first rip cut for a couple boards
Clamp & joint the new edges at the same time.
Layout and saw the next two rip cuts
Clamp & joint those new edges, paying attention to the "parallelism" with the first edges.

Learn to manage the difference between the pencil line[s] and the saw kerf, so you can get "home" with a finished dimension that is - pragmatically - accurate, meaning: Table aprons don't know 1/16"- 1/8" off plan from shinola.

Make a guide/reference device like Jim's to help keep saw normal to board's surface, as an aid to gain experience.


Thanks guys; very helpful


Kent

Yup pretty much.

Made a table a while ago and ripped the aprons (four of equal length and soon to be equal width) then clamped em together and planned the edges to size only marking the two outside ones. I had a squared edge on the individual boards when I did this but I'd imagine that isn't really needed as that to could be done when ganged, all boards cut to rough width. I think its implied but the boards are surfaced both sides flat and parallel, not finished smoothed though.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

How do you fellows do it when you need more then three or four boards of the same width? For example a set of shelves I am making now will require 16.

[Jim Koepke]

How do you fellows do it when you need more then three or four boards of the same width? For example a set of shelves I am making now will require 16.

It is easy to check them all against a master for width. Though most of my shelves do not show when the shelves are not exactly the same. Usually they are a hair wider than the sides if there isn't going to be a back. Make them flush to the front and then trim any excess hanging out the back with a few light swipes of a plane. Heck, if a back was going to sit in a rabbet you could likely still do it like this.

My current design is to use stopped dados and radius the front corners of the shelf. Here are images of a open dado and a stopped dado with a curved corner:

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I think the curved corner looks a lot better. Funny how opening it up hides the joinery it exposes.

HINT: Make the radius as big as the set back of the dado. Only set back the stop about 3/4 - 1".

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

And here I thought I was the only one who planed things to fit after assembly!

Thank you for that radius idea. I have not seen that, and you are right, it does look better, and helps to make any imperfection in the fit less obvious. On the set I am gluing up now I did a stopped dado, and just tried to get the shoulders on the shelves as tight as I could. They are not as tight as I would like, and I think I may try using your radius idea on the next set. What do you do, trim it with a spokeshave to round it?

My question above was more directed to whether folks find the gang planing approach to work for larger numbers of boards. If you planed each board clamped to a master, I would think there would be a risk your master would get narrower as you went along. I generally just check each one with a combination square by setting the blade to the width I want, and running the head down my reference edge. It is quickly obvious if the board is significantly out somewhere, and that seems to work for me, but I was curious how others do it.

[Jim Koepke]

One of these days I will take better notes and maybe even get good at making molding.

Starting out with setting the beading blade in a Stanley #45:

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The blade has to be visible all around the skates. Actually in this picture the skate on the left is set a hair too wide and was moved in. If the skate covers part of the blade, it won't cut where covered and the plane will cause problems.

A problem for some might be the skates and fence not being parallel. This fence was not parallel and has a shim added between the rosewood and the metal part of the fence structure. Other problems can be caused by the fence not being square to the skates. If the fence's fine adjustment locking screw is missing the skate will wobble. Another problem with setting can be caused by the bevel on the large fence locking thumbscrews being worn. These should have smooth bevels and a little oil on them. Some get uneven if overly tightened. These can cause movement of the fence that keeps it from being parallel to the skates. A lot to think about, but once one of these beasts has been tamed all one has to worry about is sharpening the blades.

The beading blade was set up to do a side bead:

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This is actually backwards of the normal steps when making molding. It is usually advised to work from the farthest to the nearest cuts when making molding by hand. Just goes to show it is okay to sometimes work outside the rules.

The bead was followed by a fluting cut:

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There is a fluting cutter laying on the bench by the brushes. This required careful concentration on where the cut was removing material to keep it from cutting into the bead. The almost finished profile can be seen at the end of the board. This is also one reason there is more than one Stanley #45 in my shop. Keeps me from having to change things once they are set up.

Another old trick is to use the shavings to burnish the work. It shines it up better than 600 grit sand paper.

This was then marked to be ripped:

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This was marked for the narrow side of the molding to be 3/4" when finished. This will then match the depth of the door panel which will nestle between the top and bottom molding. The Odd Jobs has one narrow edge for registration which is handy in this situation. The molding was then ripped on a bandsaw (OMG! electron blasphemy).

The saw marks were planed off using a #7 jointer plane:

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This also brought it to the final dimension. Since there is a bead on one side and this is a difficult piece to support over the full length in my front vise it was held in a different manner. A bird's mouth is held in the face vise so the bench top can support the thin piece. The bird's mouth was made so a 3/4" piece held in place will line up with the bench dogs. There is also a "helper at the far end:

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This helps with curved stock or in this case a piece of stock that has a bead on one side and nothing for support on the other.

The 1X12 stock was then cleaned up to make the another piece of molding. After the saw marks were planed off it was checked for square. It was out a little so here is my way of getting an edge square.

The ability to judge how much material a plane is removing and comparing it in the mind to how much needs to be removed to get to square comes with time and practice.

Here my left hand is guiding the plane and holding the plane off of the right edge. The left side of the plane is taking a shaving of about 5/16":

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This is about the third shaving of this squaring episode. The idea is to start carefully with as narrow a shaving as is felt needed. Then just keep riding on the new made flat. It will get wider with each pass. When the shaving gets to full width, check for square.

That's what I'm talking about:

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Back to cutting the second piece of molding.

In reality the edge likely could have been cut into molding without being perfectly square, but the title does mention joining so it seemed appropriate to show it being done.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

What do you do, trim it with a spokeshave to round it?

Fret saw, spokeshave, block plane or a chisel I have even use a large gouge with a backer board to just clip off the corner. All is fair in rounding and corners.


If you planed each board clamped to a master, I would think there would be a risk your master would get narrower as you went along.

Actually the master isn't planed once it is to the desired dimension. It is just for comparison. With a set up like a bird's mouth it is quick to plane, check, repeat as needed.

Remember to flip the board end for end when checking to make sure all sides are parallel.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - this is great.........

Keep 'em coming.

Thanks to whomever is on the camera, BTW.........

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks to whomever is on the camera, BTW.........

That would be my friend, Mr. Pod, Tri Pod with a shutter release timer.

Back in the days of Kodachrome I was an enthusiastic photography hobbyist. Actually did some for a job when I worked in a print shop. That is a different aspect of photography.

Here is one of the few color prints I made and then later scanned to digitize:

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I love what could be done with Kodachrome and a polarizing filter. I remember that shot as the last frame on my last roll. 1/30th at ƒ16 hand held with a 50mm lens.

That was taken over 40 years ago. The windmill is long gone. I think they were starting to build homes in that area about 20 years ago.

BTW, a little digital magic was done to improve the image and remove some unwanted stuff.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

Thanks for doing this post, I am enjoying it very much, and as usual am learning in the process. The photos of making the molding using a Stanley 45 are very informative and interesting. I have a 45, that I bought at an auction over 40 years ago, and have dug it out of the attic a few days ago to study and am thinking about a bit of restoration on it. I am thinking about doing a post asking for general information on use of the 45.

Anyway, thank you very much for the post so far, it is much appreciated.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

Thanks for doing this post, I am enjoying it very much, and as usual am learning in the process. The photos of making the molding using a Stanley 45 are very informative and interesting. I have a 45, that I bought at an auction over 40 years ago, and have dug it out of the attic a few days ago to study and am thinking about a bit of restoration on it. I am thinking about doing a post asking for general information on use of the 45.

Anyway, thank you very much for the post so far, it is much appreciated.

Stew

Stew, here is something I posted a few years ago:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?121761-Specialty-Planes-for-quot-Neanderthal-Wisdom-quot&p=1239963#post1239963

I have learned a lot since then about other nuances of the Stanley 45 and its uses.

Today's broadcast of The Woodright's shop, at least for Oregon Public Broadcasting-Portland, was on combination planes.

It can be found online here:

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365021501/

It is a good overview on their abilities.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Things have been busy around here. Some of it has me doing other projects. A bit more work was done on the small wall cabinet.

This will have three shelves installed. I have been using dados for fixed shelf spacing. I am thinking it may be less work to drill holes and use 1/4" shelf pins instead. That would also allow different spacings. First step is laying out the shelf spacing:

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A story stick is used for reference. Here a 1/4" chisel is being used as a guide for the knife to make two marks on one of the side pieces. Then the marks are transfered to the second piece with a square:

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Of course one needs to make sure the pieces are lined up in proper orientation. There is also a removable fence along the back of my bench as an extra helping hand.

The depth of one shelf was marked and then a quick gauge was made to mark the rest with a pencil:

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After this it is simple to scribe some heavy lines to define the side walls of the dados:

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With a deep mark, cleaning out the slots is easy with a chisel:

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There are two 1/4" chisels being used here. One is a bit fat and was used for marking the dados. The second one is a hair under a 1/4" and helps clear out the slot without getting jammed or chipping the edges.

The dado's sides will need to be scribed repeatedly until the full depth is reached. For this a heavy knife or a wide chisel do well. With fat waste removal it only takes two or three times to get to depth.

The dado can be finished using a router plane to achieve a uniform depth.

Then before moving on to making a back everything is checked for fit:

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These blocks have grooves plowed in them to hold the shelves in place during assembly.

It all comes together:

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This is also where all the attention to reference sides and making sure things are square pays off. A little miss in a dimension shouldn't cause a disaster. A little miss on squaring things up can result in a piece that will not sit flat on a wall. That is not good.

The brand of tea box used is one of the taller ones and fits fine on the smallest shelf. The bottom shelf is tall enough for the larger double boxes of tea. There are a few variations, but taking a ruler into the local grocery store helped with the dimensioning.

Of course other things can be stored in this cabinet. One is doing service on one of my benches holding odd stuff.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Here is a little more on this cabinet build.

My bandsaw has a 6" throat which limits resawing. It seems to want to drift inside the wood at times which can make resawing a bit hit or miss at times. The back is made from two panels using a ship lap in the center.

Everything was all glued and clamped:

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I like to get all my clamps set close to what is needed for the job. I also like to have all my wood blocks and everything set and ready to go. All the pieces are on the bench in a somewhat exploded view so there is no panic during the glue process.

Then it was on to practicing on blind nailing the molding.

First a gouge is used to lift a sliver of wood:

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Then a pilot hole is carefully drilled:

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Then a nail is driven with extra care and a nail set. After the nail is driven, some glue is applied to the splinter and the cavity. This is then held down with painter's tape:

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After an over night drying the tape is lifted:

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If you look you can see where the sliver was glued. This is after a light stain was applied.

jtk