Help with website - Need laser images!

[Dan Kozakewycz]

After spending the past two months setting up by business as a full time enterprise, I realise I've been focussing entirely on one side (the laser engraved products I make under my own brand) and totally neglected the other side of the business, which is offering laser cutting and engraving services to the local area.

I am just putting together a separate website for this side of things and need some stock photography relating to laser cutting and engraving, however I have virtually nothing of my own work to use as to date I have been working almost exclusively in anodised aluminium and so don't have much of an image library to use.

If it's not too much to ask, would any SMC members we willing to share some laser photography that they wouldn't mind me using? I could pull stuff off Google but you never know who's going to get about use of their images, I would much rather someone actually give permission to use an image they own. I don't need an extensive library as I will build this up from my own work when it starts coming in, just a few nice shots for banner images and that sort of thing would be good to start the website off!

TIA!

[Matt McCoy]

Would these work?

http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?searchterm=laser+cutting&autocomplete_id=14301400608539390000&language=en&lang=en&search_source=&safesearch=1&version=llv1&media_type=&media_type2=images&search_cat=&searchtermx=&photographer_name=&people_gender=&people_age=&people_ethnicity=&people_number=&color=

[Mike Null]

Dan

I understand your dilemma though I prefer to use my own engraving examples. I suggest you have a look at supplier web sites as they are not likely to give you any grief.

[Mike Troncalli]

Dan

I understand your dilemma though I prefer to use my own engraving examples. I suggest you have a look at supplier web sites as they are not likely to give you any grief.

I had asked JDS if I could use some of theirs and they were perfectly fine with it..

[Keith Outten]

You can order the SawMill Creek Engravers Forum DVD, it contains thousands and thousands of pictures BUT you have to contact the owners and ask for their permission to use them commercially.
.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Careful Dan, Trading Standards are pretty hot on the use of images of non own produced work, they usually go at you for miss leading customers :(

[Glen Monaghan]

You might want to bite the bullet and create some samples of your own to photograph yourself. Sure, it costs you for the substrates, but you can expense them as advertising and, once you have them, you can produce your own photo(s) in whatever style you come up with to define your "brand".

A consistent style across your gallery will create a (subtle) sense of professionalism and competency, versus a random collection of differently lit, sized, and staged photos collected from hither and yon.

Besides, if you will be dealing in person with customers, you'll then have a collection of display items that people can see, touch and hold, which can be helpful in completing a purchase decision.

[Art Mann]

I think it would be dishonest to publish images of projects you didn't do yourself unless you inform the reader of the fact.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I think it would be dishonest to publish images of projects you didn't do yourself unless you inform the reader of the fact.

No it's not. It's a sample image or a stock photo. If you think it's dishonest, there are A LOT of dishonest people out there. The reality is, there are a lot of people out there that can't produce decent stock photos or don't want to take the time to produce decent stock photos. That's why manufacturers go ahead and put out stock photos.

To answer the original question: go on laser manufacturer websites and use their photos. If you're really concerned, simply caption the photo with "Sample of wood engraved" or something like it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

It's UK Ross, different ballgame here :(

[Ross Moshinsky]

It's UK Ross, different ballgame here :(

McDonalds advertises there, right? Well, that would be my defense.

I think you'll be okay posting stock images that you have permission to use, especially if you caption them. You're advertising a service, not a product. As long as you can live up to the standard of the photo, within reason, I can't imagine anyone complaining.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I can't imagine anyone complaining

I can and have seen it happen a number of times. Using stock materials that have pictures of items that have not been produced by the person using the images without a statement to that effect is illegal here. People don't need to complain,trading standards agency pursue cases without a complainant here :(

It's covered by the "Fraud by miss-representation Act" and is a criminal matter not a civil one :(

[matthew knott]

Sorry Dave but that's not really the case, you DONT have to use photos you have taken, I could give 100 examples of why you are wrong but heres a few
Hairdressers have stock photos up, they didn't cut the hair
Food in TV adverts is not cooked, it is prepaired using makeup and other tricks of the trade.
Cars are advertised with tinted windows and lower suspension than you actually buy

All you would need is 'examples of laser engraving' its a fact no misrepresentation what so ever.
Find one example of the law being broken in this way, google and stick a link up, bet you cant!

[Jason Hilton]

In the US you must license any photos you use for advertising purposes. This can be done either by photographing your own images or buying/obtaining a license-to-use from the image owner. Using stock photos from shutterstock or a similar service is perfectly legal and completely common. Using an image directly from a laser manufacturers' website without express permission is copyright infringement.

Additionally, you can often find quality images that only require accreditation for free by searching for content license under the Creative Commons license. Be aware this still requires you to credit and often link back to the creator of the image. If you want to use images free and clear your only options are take the photos yourself or purchase them from a stock photo service. If you suck and taking photos it's worth the investment to hire a professional photographer to produce your product shots. In online sales a picture isn't just worth a thousand words, it's potentially worth thousands of dollars. Many studies have shown that when presented with two photos of the same item respondents overwhelmingly chose the item with a better picture at the same price, and almost as often chose the better photo at a higher price.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hiya Matt,

What I'm saying is Joe Blogs runs a laser company
Joe proceeds to post *stock* images of items he didn't make
Joe titles the pictures "An example of our work and what we can do"

That's fraudulent

Using stock (as in shutterstock etc) images as decor without any claim of manufacture isn't fraud :)

[Mike Null]

A number of suppliers provide a method of linking their site to yours so you can use their images and copy. Some permit you to use these without stating anything about the source. The suppliers I'm referring to sell gifts and awards to the engraving trade. I've been using Tropar for a number of years with minimal credit to them.

[Gary Hair]

"An example of our work and what we can do"

However "An example of the type of work we can do" should be fine, right?

[Dave Sheldrake]

However "An example of the type of work we can do" should be fine, right?

To be honest Gary, I don't know how pedantic TS can be but I think it depends *if* a complaint is made (although TS sometimes take their own cases forward on investigation)

Legal issues aside I look at it like this

Keith Outten makes signs, very good signs by all accounts, now imagine if I used a picture of one of HIS signs on my factory display board with the legend above it "This is the type of work we can do" would that seem morally acceptable given most people reading it would *assume* I had made the sign? Fraud is a really strange crime, fraud by lying is one thing but fraud by omission is still covered by the same 1971 act. (ie: you give somebody enough information that the only conclusion they can reasonably come to would be fraudulent)
In the case of Keith's Sign, I'm not saying I made it but the wording unless stated otherwise would suggest I did to anybody that didn't question further.

[Bert Kemp]

I Remember looking at laserbits site and they had a whole catalog with stuff you could laser and it was customizable for personal use to show your customers . Pretty sure it was anyway take a look .

http://www.laserbits.com/sales-production-tools/free-marketing-tools.html

[Gary Hair]

To be honest Gary, I don't know how pedantic TS can be

If someone wants to pick a fight with you they will no matter what you do. When I first started out I, my website was pretty slim. Now I have so many pictures that I only use about 1% of them. All I really care is that there is an example of most of the materials I work with and the most popular options for that material. after having said all of this, I realized that I need to update my site very soon - I don't do CNC or Sublimation and I don't have any examples of fiber or DCS printing. Oh well, it's a good thing I'm as busy as I want to be as is...

[Jake Vander Ende]

This thread has gotten way more complicated and involved than it needs to.

The best way to do this is to invest in some samples, make example products, and photograph those.

For products, one way you can do it is to just ask people you know if they need X, Y, or Z thing that you can create. When you find someone, either give it as a gift or just ask for the cost of materials. After all, you DO need to learn how to make the things you want to offer, don't you? There are always unexpected problems.

For pictures, it's not hard to get pictures that will get the job done, but I'm sure that local photographers would appreciate the business. You might even be able to kill two birds with one stone, offering free prototypes in exchange for photographing services.

Don't bother with the headache of stock photos or the legality of using someone else's photos. Get the practice in, get the honest pictures of your own work, learn how to make new things in the process, and use it all as an opportunity to get involved with the local community while you do it.

[Mike Null]

Another option for certain kinds of work is to create drawings in Corel representative of what you can do. I do this frequently for name tags and various laminated labels as proofs for customers. It is quite easy and quite accurate to draw control panel labels in this manner. Obviously you wouldn't call them engraved samples but they should do the trick.

[Dan Hintz]

You can order the SawMill Creek Engravers Forum DVD, it contains thousands and thousands of pictures BUT you have to contact the owners and ask for their permission to use them commercially.
.

Keith, do you attribute each image on those CDs to the original poster? If not, it would be next to impossible for the viewer to know who to contact for permission.

I know you're not suggesting otherwise, but I certainly wouldn't appreciate it if someone my product images showed up on someone else's site.

[Michele Welch]

All of these are great points and I don't have anything that is technically different to add, BUT another angle I see is in Dave's example above of Keith's signs. If you were to use one of his wonderful signs and use the line of "This is the type of work we can do" and then say someone orders one of "those" signs. What if your quality and standards aren't up to those of Keith's and your results are inferior to those you've advertised? And then that same customer happens to see Keith's work and things spiral out of control and the reputations of several people will be destroyed. In my book, it just isn't worth it. Bite the bullet, laser your own projects, photograph or hire someone to photograph and then you won't have to worry about it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

What if your quality and standards aren't up to those of Keith's

Believe me Mich any attempt of mine at making signs would end badly :)

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Thanks for the input everyone. I think for the time being, I'll just not use any images until I have done some work of my own and can photograph that. :)

[Tim Bateson]

I do this all of the time to show a customer a proof. Overlay (Photoshop) an image onto a photo of a substrate. "If" done right, it'll be hard to tell the difference.


Another option for certain kinds of work is to create drawings in Corel representative of what you can do. I do this frequently for name tags and various laminated labels as proofs for customers...

[Dave Sheldrake]

Thanks for the input everyone. I think for the time being, I'll just not use any images until I have done some work of my own and can photograph that. :)

I've seen your work Dan, no point using other peoples images anyways as your stuff is better ;)