Would Roller Guides Noticeably Improve Bandsaw Performance?

[Julie Moriarty]

I have a Jet JWBS-18 I use often. I'm beginning to wonder if I might get better performance from roller guides than these:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/guides_01_zpse5f8rja7.jpg
The side guides leave something to be desired and I was wondering if switching to roller guides, something like the upgrade kit Carter makes, would really make a difference in setup and performance. For anyone who has switched to roller guides, what has been your experience? Is it worth it?

[Grant Wilkinson]

I switched on a previous bandsaw, then took them off and sold them. I did not see any difference at all. What issue are you trying to address?

[Erik Loza]

...What issue are you trying to address?

This ^^^

Ask half a dozen users what guides they think are best, get half a dozen different answers. What specifically is the concern?

Erik

[jerry cousins]

here's the 1st opinion - i recommend laguna ceramics
jerry

[John TenEyck]

For the narrow blade shown in your photo, those guides are probably as good as any other. For a wider blade I would think side support would be advantages, whether that be roller bearings or static guides like the Cool Blocks I use.

John

Upon further study, I see that those guides will support any width blade. You move the thrust bearing back to allow the blade to sit deeper in the side guides, yes? If so, I doubt roller guides are going to offer much benefit. The key to cutting straight is getting the blade aligned properly on the wheels and having adequate tension. For my 14" Delta, where adequate tension is not even a possibility, blade alignment is paramount. I regularly saw 10"+ wide veneer with it, with the stock guides and Cool Blocks. When the blade is tracking correctly, I don't think the Cool Blocks are doing much of anything. Using the side guides to force the blade to be straight between them is the wrong way of going about it.

John

[Jim Finn]

I have roller guides that came with the saw and they work fine for me. I mostly use my saw for re-sawing and have found the one most important thing regarding performance is the blade. I now use 1/2" carbide blades.

[Jim Matthews]

I don't think the Carter Guides I put on my bandsaw engage unless I'm twisting the blade.
Getting them to fit, without getting in the way was a PITA.

The stock guides are a more 'natural' fit.

The one on the bottom wheel is more important, to keep the blade from coming off the drive wheel.
Proper tension and alignment is what keeps mine running straight.

Mike Fortune resaws big with nothing more than Lignum Vitae guides on his ancient Delta 14.

[Mike Cutler]

Julie

I don't have a Jet 18", but I have a Jet 14" that had a similar guide bearing configuration. I changed the OEM blade guides for the Carter's, modified the lower guide bearing position, and have liked them ever since. I personally think the change was worth it. In fact I gave the OEM guides away.
With the OEM guides, the blade would have a tendency to want to deflect off that back bearing and bite into the phenolic blocks that provided lateral support. As time went on these supports had to be reshaped, or made square again. I found the overall support of the OEM lacking, which gave me problems re-sawing with it. The Carter upgrade supports the blade laterally as well as providing an actual thrust bearing that is doing something.
When I changed the the lower support, I also machined a piece of steel to move the lower guide closer to the underside of the table, in hopes that the unsupported length of blade would be minimized and give me better stability.

I also have a Rikon 340, 18" band saw, and it has a three bearing configuration top and bottom as does the Carter on my 14".

What exactly is your band saw not doing properly for you?

[Larry Frank]

I certainly hope you try it and let us know. I have the same saw and have looked at doing that. The Carter guides look nice but are not cheap around $250 or so.

[Shawn Pixley]

I have the Rikon 10-325 (14") with the stock 3 bearing guides above and below. I found the guides mattered much less than the blade. What is the problem you'd like to solve?

[Curt Harms]

For narrower blades I'm partial toward static blocks like cool blocks. I made my own out of some sort of tropical hardwood soaked in mineral oil. I can mostly bury narrow blades in the blocks and if the blade's teeth contact the guide it doesn't affect the teeth like contacting metal would. I'm not sure there's an easy way to adapt Julie's guides though.

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks for the replies.

The problems I've been having lately all happen during resawing, and drift has become a serious issue. After doing an upgrade a couple of years ago (silicone rubber tires, new fence and a bunch of new blades), everything had been running smoothly. I would just set up the fence and cut away. Now the blades seem to have a mind of their own.

From observing what's going on, all I can see that's a problem is the knurled nuts on the side guides tend to loosen, no matter how much I hand-tighten them. On a couple of occasions, the guides closed and clamped down on the blade. This is all fairly recent. I haven't yet resorted to using hand tools to tighten them and I don't believe I should. That's not how they were designed and I've never needed to in the past. The times the guides closed on the blade may have scored the insides of the guides. I can't see any gouges but at certain angles I do see what might be slight scoring. When I looked at this picture through the camera, I thought I could see scoring, but the picture didn't show it.
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/guides_02_zpsk2zmxrgb.jpg

This morning, I took a piece I had earlier tried to resaw, but drifted badly, and cut it freehand from the other end. I zig-zagged the cut until I met the previous cut. When I opened the two halves, I saw the previous cut had burn marks. The part I cut this morning didn't. The blade I used previously was fairly new. When I was making the previous cut, I attributed the burning to the fact the drift was pressing the wood against the fence. Maybe the blade had prematurely dulled? I know the teeth were clear of the guides, so that shouldn't be the problem.

Whatever it is, I think it's somewhere between the side guides and the blades. I didn't consider the blades being the problem because they were fairly new. But maybe Lenox dulls just as quickly as Woodslicer? I've never been crazy about the friction created with the OEM setup. Roller guides should get rid of that. I realize they aren't cheap but if they work, I won't be ruining pricey woods and my frustration would end. There's value in that.

[Mel Fulks]

I've used Curt's method on several saws. Dogwood works well,too.

[Keith Hankins]

I have two band saws and they are setup for diff purposes. I have a Grizzly 17"HD came with the euro style guides like you show above. I use it for re-sawing with a big blade, and found it to be challenging and upgraded to the style that has the ball bearing guides rolling against the blade.

For my second BS, a 1934 Delta, that I used for smaller work, I use the Carter stabilizer. It's just a single bearing and since I use that for saw for all my curve work and tight space work, it's awesome. It took me a while to wrap my head round those side bearing limiting the blade for curves, and saw it in action and used it, I can't imagine any other way.

http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw-products/band-saw-stabilizer

So it depends on what your doing with your BS, to determine what style guides work best.

Good luck.

[Art Mann]

My previous saw, manufactured by Rikon, had bearings. I despised the setup. The whole mechanism was manufactured to wildly sloppy tolerances. Consequently, you could adjust the spacing to the blade very precisely and then as you tightened the fastener, watch the bearing move by .030 or more. You literally have to guess how far the bearings will move and then compensate before they are tightened. I am not sure all bearing guides are that way but I have since gone to a Laguna saw with ceramic guides and they are absolutely trivial to set up perfectly.

[Erik Loza]

Julie, is this with an old blade or a new blade?

Also, what happens if you try to make the cut with the guides backed all the way out? In other words, no contact with the blade during a straightline cut?

The guides might not be the issue at all.

Erik

[John TenEyck]

Resawing is mostly about the blade, tension, and tracking. Guides have little to do with success. Julie, if you can't cut in a straight line the blade isn't tracking correctly or your blade is dull or has more set on one side than the other. The trouble you are having with the guides actually seems like a separate issue to me.


John

[roger wiegand]

I upgraded my Delta 14 with the Carter kit long ago. It seemed at the time to be a big improvement over the original Delta metal blocks. Cool Blocks came to the market a year or two later and the ceramic ones after that, if they had been there sooner I probably would have tried them instead. The idea of bearings seemed cool, whether or not they improved performance more than a cheaper solution is another question. That said, I've never had any reason to be unhappy with the Carter guides and have never been tempted to take them off. They've been in use for at least 20 years now.

[Julie Moriarty]

I've been reading the posts here and seeing if they apply to the problems I'm having. I do believe a dull blade is a contributor to the problem but how do these blades get so dull so quickly? In the last month I've taken out three new blades, the most recent this morning. Two are gone, and I haven't done that much work with them. That's why I'm wondering if the side guides are contributing to the problem. But that doesn't make sense because the teeth are clear of the guides.

Maybe the blades are garbage. The Woodmaster CT was amazing when I first got it and I did a lot of resawing with it in that first few months. And since it's carbide tipped, I thought it would last me a very long time. But I can't get it to track as straight anymore. Maybe it's dull now.

But these new Lenox blades haven't been so amazing. Either that, or there's something else I am missing. With the Woodmaster blade, I became the Resaw Queen. :rolleyes: But I first learned how to set the saw up properly. Now, nothing I do seems to last very long. I can't imagine the blades going bad in less than 1/2 hour's use.

I do know those side guides coming loose is a problem that needs to be fixed. Maybe it's vibration. Maybe there is slight scoring that's interacting with the blade and causing them to loosen. I've wire brushed the threads and cleaned them up as best I can but at least one comes loose during almost every resaw and the blade begins to drift. But maybe it's the blades. Or maybe the maple I've been attempting to resaw is just too gnarly and I need carbide tipped blades. :confused:

[Erik Loza]

Julie, are you cutting green wood with the Woodmaster or dry stuff?

Erik

[Peter Kelly]

Try sharpening your blades with a rotary tool, makes big difference. A 12' blade for an 18" saw blade should take terribly long.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vcDSPNxPW8

You might also try replacing the tension spring on the saw if you're gettign a lot of drift. Louis Iturra wiil likely will have the correct replacement size: (904) 642-2802

[John TenEyck]

Julie, if your blade won't track straight, and it did before, you either don't have it positioned correctly on the wheels or it's dull. I don't think it can be anything else. A blade can last for months or get trashed in a few seconds; it just depends upon what wood it is and what's in it.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

Erik, all the wood is dry.

Peter, thanks for the link. I've seen a number of Matthias' videos but hadn't seen the sharpening one. It doesn't look as tedious or time consuming as I expected. After that video, the physics of bandsaw blades video came up. I have seen it before but hadn't thought about applying the physics to this recent problem. The quick dulling of the blades might be found there.

John, if I'm violating the physics, as Matthias explains, then maybe I'm dulling the blades prematurely.

I was just an apprentice when someone told me to find the right hacksaw blade for a given size conduit, only two teeth of the blade should be touching the conduit before you begin cutting. Is there a similar formula to follow for resawing?

As far as tension, there's a guide on the back of the saw's upper housing that marks where the pointer should be, based on blade width. I usually go one or two sizes tighter. So if it's a 1/4" blade, I'll tighten it to 3/8" or 1/2". I just don't know how tight I can go before breaking the blade or damaging something in the saw.

[Jim Matthews]

The guides might not be the issue at all.

Erik

+1 on this.

Every time I've had a problem with my saw - it was the blade.

[Robert Payne]

Julie,

I would recommend that you recheck your bandsaw setup -- here is the best advice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU) I've every seen and his method works very well (by Alex Snodgrass of Carter Products). I think the key is to have the blade gullets in the center of the wheel crown and the correct tension.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Now the blades seem to have a mind of their own.

That sounds like the blades(s) need to be replaced. I would try that first before changing the guide system.

[Julie Moriarty]

Julie,

I would recommend that you recheck your bandsaw setup -- here is the best advice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU) I've every seen and his method works very well (by Alex Snodgrass of Carter Products). I think the key is to have the blade gullets in the center of the wheel crown and the correct tension.

I've seen that video before but now seeing it again, I noticed that Powermatic bandsaw had roller guides and now I want them! :D

Curious, I took one of the blades I threw in the trash last night and did the Matthias sharpening on it. Have yet to test it though. But I will run through the setup again. Last time I set the gullet at the center and seem to remember having some problems. Either that or there was a discussion that even got Alex S. piping in and war broke out about the schools of thought regarding what part of the blade belongs in the middle of the wheel.

[Michelle Rich]

put on a brand new blade & check your fence for drift..

[Myk Rian]

I use hardwood guides. You can just bury the blade in them and not worry about it. I do 10" - 12" quite often on my Delta 14" w/riser using a 1/2" blade.
Even with thinner blades, just bury it in the blocks. Try it. They're free.

[John TenEyck]

If you are really interested in knowing what tension you are putting on your blades it's easy to measure with nothing more than two little c-clamps and a set of vernier calipers. I can post how to go about it if you would like to do it. You could easily over tension a narrow blade but it's hard to imagine that would happen with a wider blade you would use for resawing. I use a 1/2" blade with 3 tpi for resawing because that's the widest blade I can tension with my Delta 14" CI BS. Your saw might be able to tension a 3/4" blade. If so, that's what I'd go with, or whatever the widest blade you can adequately tension. That's not necessarily the max. width recommended by the manufacturer, however. Many will say you can use an "X" width blade when, in fact, you can't put enough tension on it to cut well, which is why I measured the tension my saw can apply.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

My concerns about over tensioning come from (A) breaking the blade and (B) damaging the tires, or even the wheel bearings.

The largest blade I own is a 1". I can't see breaking that but I can see that blade taking more tension than the wheel bearings can.

The smallest blade I own is 3/16". I have no idea how much tension that blade can take but I can see that blade digging into the tires and ruining them. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe something like this doesn't happen with urethane tires. I don't know, but I don't want to run experiments to find out.

According to the tension guide on the back of the saw, I always over tension.
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/tensionguide_zpsu3dfj3uz.jpg
This is the setting I have for a 1/4" blade. I figured the manufacturer put this there for a reason - to use it to set the tension for a given blade's width. I also figured if you tension too far past where the guide shows the tension should be, you might damage something. Again, maybe I'm wrong and the guide is meaningless. I don't know, and again, I don't want to run any experiments to find out.

When setting the tension on a blade, I always do the touch test, like Sondgrass shows in his video. When I've tensioned sailboat stays and shrouds, I do pretty much the same thing. They make a tool to measure tension but since I've never had a rig come down on me, and I've sailed in some pretty rough weather, I'd say the touch test works pretty well. So I figured if I can do that on a sailboat, bandsaws shouldn't be a problem. But I'll admit, I have more experience on sailboats than I do on bandsaws. Still, getting the tension right on bandsaws should be markedly easier. But maybe I'm wrong there, too.

[Keith Hankins]

I would not use the tension settings on the band saw as an absolute. It's generic and each mfg of a blade could require slightly different setting. Google flutter method for band saw tension. It's simple takes about 5 minutes to master, and works and is blade mfg independent. Give it a try.

[Julie Moriarty]

I would not use the tension settings on the band saw as an absolute. It's generic and each mfg of a blade could require slightly different setting. Google flutter method for band saw tension. It's simple takes about 5 minutes to master, and works and is blade mfg independent. Give it a try.

Thanks, Keith. I haven't seen that before. What I found interesting is yesterday, when I had the side guides backed off all the way, I noticed the flutter. The flutter test video I just watched said tensioning by the tension guide should eliminate flutter. But on mine, the 1/4" blade was tensioned to almost 1/2" and it still fluttered. I ended up having to take it to 3/4" before it stopped fluttering.

[Wayne Cannon]

Michael Fortune, at a woodworking show tutorial session, preferred traditional guide blocks (of any material?) over bearings. He pointed out that a tiny piece of sawdust in or on a bearing results in a slight blade wobble. It requires very good technique to make a cut smooth enough that you would notice such a small wobble, but it made a difference to him.

[Robert Engel]

I agree with the poster re: almost every time I've had an issue with resawing (as long as the set up is right) its the blade. One thing I do is dedicate the resaw blade to resawing only. I'm lazy and don't want to change blades, so I picked up a smaller BS for normal cutting. I finally realized if I'm in a hurry and using the resaw blade for other things cause I don't want to change it, then it will dull it quicker. Have to remember its essentially a ripping blade, not crosscut.

I've had the same experience as you re: blades seeming to dull quickly. One time I resawed white oak an 8" wide board about 6 feet long and after about 8 passes I could tell the blade was already going dull. This was a 1/2" Wood Slicer I got from Highland. I'm seriously thinking of breaking down and getting a carbide but for my 18" bandsaw its alot of money.

I'm of the opinion that when my blade is wandering during resawing, the first things I check are blade tension (not usually an issue) and the thruster bearing.
If those check out, I change the blade and I'm usually off to the races.

[Curt Harms]

I agree with the poster re: almost every time I've had an issue with resawing (as long as the set up is right) its the blade. One thing I do is dedicate the resaw blade to resawing only. I'm lazy and don't want to change blades, so I picked up a smaller BS for normal cutting. I finally realized if I'm in a hurry and using the resaw blade for other things cause I don't want to change it, then it will dull it quicker. Have to remember its essentially a ripping blade, not crosscut.

I've had the same experience as you re: blades seeming to dull quickly. One time I resawed white oak an 8" wide board about 6 feet long and after about 8 passes I could tell the blade was already going dull. This was a 1/2" Wood Slicer I got from Highland. I'm seriously thinking of breaking down and getting a carbide but for my 18" bandsaw its alot of money.

I'm of the opinion that when my blade is wandering during resawing, the first things I check are blade tension (not usually an issue) and the thruster bearing.
If those check out, I change the blade and I'm usually off to the races.

I've read elsewhere that Woodslicers are not the longest lived. Really sharp and work great when new though. I've had pretty good luck with SuperCut Premium Gold blades. They're not expensive and seem to wear well. I asked the people at Supercut how the Premium Gold blade compares to Bimetal. They sell both. The guy I talked to said it depended on the wood. Supercut also sells dedicated resaw blades but I have no experience with them. Lenox' DieMaster 2 gets pretty good reviews for value. Not as smooth cutting as something like a TriMaster but not the $$$ either.

[Al Launier]

Thanks for the replies.

The problems I've been having lately all happen during resawing, and drift has become a serious issue. After doing an upgrade a couple of years ago (silicone rubber tires, new fence and a bunch of new blades), everything had been running smoothly. I would just set up the fence and cut away. Now the blades seem to have a mind of their own.

From observing what's going on, all I can see that's a problem is the knurled nuts on the side guides tend to loosen, no matter how much I hand-tighten them. On a couple of occasions, the guides closed and clamped down on the blade. This is all fairly recent. I haven't yet resorted to using hand tools to tighten them and I don't believe I should. That's not how they were designed and I've never needed to in the past. The times the guides closed on the blade may have scored the insides of the guides. I can't see any gouges but at certain angles I do see what might be slight scoring. When I looked at this picture through the camera, I thought I could see scoring, but the picture didn't show it.
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/Tools/guides_02_zpsk2zmxrgb.jpg

This morning, I took a piece I had earlier tried to resaw, but drifted badly, and cut it freehand from the other end. I zig-zagged the cut until I met the previous cut. When I opened the two halves, I saw the previous cut had burn marks. The part I cut this morning didn't. The blade I used previously was fairly new. When I was making the previous cut, I attributed the burning to the fact the drift was pressing the wood against the fence. Maybe the blade had prematurely dulled? I know the teeth were clear of the guides, so that shouldn't be the problem.

Whatever it is, I think it's somewhere between the side guides and the blades. I didn't consider the blades being the problem because they were fairly new. But maybe Lenox dulls just as quickly as Woodslicer? I've never been crazy about the friction created with the OEM setup. Roller guides should get rid of that. I realize they aren't cheap but if they work, I won't be ruining pricey woods and my frustration would end. There's value in that.

Have you tried using a compression spring to keep the screws from loosening?
Plus, did you pre-tension the Carter blade, i.e. push it forward ~ 1/8" toward you, before using?

[Bill White]

I used Cool Blocks on my now sold Magna (ShopSmith) 11" for years. My Grizz 0555LX has bearings. Keeping the bearing surface clean is a bit of a chore as was said. I'd go back to the Cool Blocks if it weren't for the expense of changing the guide system.
Bill

[john lawson]

I switched from rollers to Laguna ceramics, best thing I ever did to a bandsaw

[Prashun Patel]

Given that you've been using this for a while without issue, and the nuts seem to be loosening, could it be that your saw is just vibrating?

I noticed with my last saw (G0555, 14") there was some vibration. That saw had bearing guides. They (like yours) would work their way loose frequently. I didn't like them for this and other reasons: I had a tough time keeping them aligned; and they would sieze up often so I had to replace them frequently (cheap but a pain).

I was leery of buying my current saw (19" Grizzly) because it had bearing guides too. However they stay put. I think it's just a more stable saw so there's less rattling to loosen things up.

I don't think switching to rollers will help you;

Is it possible that your motor belt or tires are worn or something else is otherwise loose?

Last, dumb question alert: You're using the right blade, right? I prefer 3tpi for resawing (but I'm not making veneer). I have found that the guides and tension are a distant, distant second to using the right blade. I now just eyeball both and it cuts straight.

[Myk Rian]

The flutter test video I just watched said tensioning by the tension guide should eliminate flutter..
I would re-read it. The flutter method is completely independent of the tension gauge.

[Curt Harms]

Re tension gauges I have a Rikon 10-325 so not like Julie's saw. I don't know if the gauge is working properly but to get the same 'press on it' tension on different blades of the same width requires different settings. One 1/4" blade may be pretty good when set to 1/4" on the tension gauge. Another 1/4" blade may need to read 5/8" on the tension gauge to be tensioned close to right. One trick I've found on my saw is it has a window in the top door to be able to see the tension gauge. Through that window I can see the area where the return side of the blade comes in contact with the top wheel. If the blade is too loose it'll flutter just before it contacts the wheel. As I tension the blade the flutter goes away. I feel like I'm using the 'flutter' method without having to mess with the blade guides.

[Julie Moriarty]

Have you tried using a compression spring to keep the screws from loosening?
Plus, did you pre-tension the Carter blade, i.e. push it forward ~ 1/8" toward you, before using?
There is no room for springs. What I recently started doing was tightening the inner nut and then tightening both the inner and outer together. I can get a better grip on them and they seem to stay put now.

According to the Snodgrass setup, the blade should sit about 1/16" away from the thrust bearings. But when using Carter's bandsaw Stabilizer, the blade is pushed forward, but that is only for scroll cutting. If I understand everything correctly.


Given that you've been using this for a while without issue, and the nuts seem to be loosening, could it be that your saw is just vibrating?

I noticed with my last saw (G0555, 14") there was some vibration. That saw had bearing guides. They (like yours) would work their way loose frequently. I didn't like them for this and other reasons: I had a tough time keeping them aligned; and they would sieze up often so I had to replace them frequently (cheap but a pain).

I was leery of buying my current saw (19" Grizzly) because it had bearing guides too. However they stay put. I think it's just a more stable saw so there's less rattling to loosen things up.

I don't think switching to rollers will help you;

Is it possible that your motor belt or tires are worn or something else is otherwise loose?

Last, dumb question alert: You're using the right blade, right? I prefer 3tpi for resawing (but I'm not making veneer). I have found that the guides and tension are a distant, distant second to using the right blade. I now just eyeball both and it cuts straight.

The vibration thing came to mind yesterday. I have a little stuffed animal one of my kids gave me years ago, sitting on top of the bandsaw. While cutting some cedar yesterday, it kept falling off. That's never happened before. But I recently bought a mobile base for the bandsaw and I did not drop it down, off the wheels, before cutting, so that may have been why the stuffed animal vibrated off.

I replaced the tires a few years ago with urethane tires. They still look good. There's no indication the motor is failing and the belt seems fine.

As to your "dumb question", it's not dumb. I may have "challenged" the wrong blade to resaw more than it was intended to. I, too, sometimes get lazy and if all I have to do is resaw a short piece, I might not change to the proper blade. But it never occurred to me I might be ruining the blade, until I watched the Matthias bandsaw physics video again.

I haven't needed to do any resawing lately to see if the mini tuneup I just did makes a difference. I still can't wrap my head around why the guide bearings would have no effect on resawing and that tension and blade sharpness are all you need to get right. If I misunderstood that concept, please correct me. But as I imagine the roller bearings at work, it just seems that with less friction, things would work better.

I do know there's another thread I found here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?94674-carter-bandsaw-guides-worth-it) (after I started this one) that seems to sing the praises of the Carter bandsaw guide upgrade.


I would re-read it. The flutter method is completely independent of the tension gauge.
The video I saw was by Tom Casper from American Woodworker. He said if you have a sharp blade, the scale on the bandsaw should work just fine. Later in the video, after adjusting to eliminate flutter, he said he'd bet the scale setting would be close to the blade size in the saw. Apparently, he believes in the scale.

[glenn bradley]

Using the side guides to force the blade to be straight between them is the wrong way of going about it.

John

I agree. Extreme tension is also not a fix for other probems. I am not sure why bandsaws are such a vortex of voodoo and mystery ;-) Using the guides to force the blade to track is one thing in a sawmill where timber is shooting past the blade all day long and blade characteristics change over a short period of time. In my shop I have different requirements.

A well aligned saw will track a blade just fine with 'appropriate' tension for the bldae type. I have roller guides on my larger saw because that is what came on the saw. I have cool blocks on my smaller saw because they tolerate small blades better than the steel guides that were stock.

I often don't even bother to lower the guides after resawing tall stock. The blades track fine and want to go straight. Something is influencing the cutter (bad set, dull, misaligned machine, etc.) if it is wandering. If you are having tracking probems I would resolve that before changing your guides which look fine to me.

So, as mentioned, you get as many different answers as their are craftsman ;-)

[Prashun Patel]

In my experience, tension has a wide tolerance. I'm always over or under tensioned slightly and it just doesn't make a difference. As long as the blade is not fluttering then it seems to cut fine. It even cuts fine when it's slightly fluttering, but it just doesn't sound right, so I try to eliminate that.

As for the guides, I know they play a role, but if the tracking, tension, and blade are right, there's a big tolerance on this. I set my guides pretty loose. The guides are there to nudge, not to wrestle. When the bearings are too close or the blade wanders, used bearings can whine and scream at me. On my old saw, there were times I was able to work for months without replacing a siezed bearing by backing it off a little and not allowing it to get to the scream. This happened when I failed to clean my lower guides, and pitch siezed one up.

So, you have THAT to look forward to if you switch away from your current guides.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the same kind of guides as you have. One problem I had with narrow blades is that the blade would go too far "into" the guides. I was having the same problem with the guides "closing". What was happening was that the "set" of the blade teeth was being removed from friction with the guides on the side. Once the set was removed, the cut would burn because there was not enough clearance between the kerf and the blade.

That ruined the blade and I had to replace it. Now, I make sure that a narrow blade cannot be pushed into the side guides to the point where the teeth are behind the front of the guide.

Mike

[John TenEyck]

My opinion is the flutter test is useless. Why? Because it's some combination of blade tension and a whole bunch of other factors including the unsupported distance between the wheels. So a 14" and an 18" saw running identical blades (except for length) will flutter at different tensions even though they should be run at the same tension. The only way to know whether or not you have an appropriate amount of tension is to measure it. Once you do that you will know the correlation between the spring setting on your saw and blade tension and can use that in the future to apply something close to the correct tension. From there you can adjust tension up/down for best performance.

Julie, running a 3/16" blade at the 5/8" setting is likely a recipe for early blade failure. The other possibility is your spring is shot.

John

[Alan Lightstone]

I have the same kind of guides as you have. One problem I had with narrow blades is that the blade would go too far "into" the guides. I was having the same problem with the guides "closing". What was happening was that the "set" of the blade teeth was being removed from friction with the guides on the side. Once the set was removed, the cut would burn because there was not enough clearance between the kerf and the blade.

That ruined the blade and I had to replace it. Now, I make sure that a narrow blade cannot be pushed into the side guides to the point where the teeth are behind the front of the guide.

Mike

That's really good advice, Mike. I have to remember that.

[Julie Moriarty]

What I had been doing, Mike, was lining up the gullet just clear of the side guides, and then pushing the thrust bearing into the back of the blade to make sure the teeth remained clear. I had accidentally combined two different setup applications from my recollection of the Snodgrass video, resawing and scroll cutting. It wasn't until I went back to watch the video again that I realized my mistake. Now I have the thrust bearing about 1/16" back and take a block of wood and push the blade into the bearing to make sure it stays clear. But if the blade bent to one side, as it can when feeding too fast, maybe the teeth could contact the guide.

I'm pretty sure the reason the side guides closed on the blade had to do with my inability to sufficiently tighten the guides. I don't know if it's loss of hand strength through retirement and aging, or the wear and tear factor on the bandsaw, but the new method I've come up with seems to be working. But I haven't had time to give it a real test. We've been working to get the house ready to put on the market.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a bandsaw mill, as well as a MM16, and running the mill has been very instructive about band blades. A mill blade only runs for an hour or two before it needs sharpening, and flatness of the blade, set and sharpness are all very important as far as cutting go. I run into a blade occasionally that will dive or raise during the cut, and has to be changed. Also, if you hit a tiny bit of dirt your blade is done.