Multiple grinders/sharpening stations for turning

[Mike Holbrook]

I am considering buying a lathe. I am determined to make: chairs, a desk and some low tables too from the large supply of green wood on my property. Yes, this work will also entail making a decent size kiln for drying pieces. I want a way to make round chair/table legs, rungs that does not entail a half day's work. I also think a lathe is a much easier way to make precisely tapered round tenons to go into a chair seat. I will make large bowls and platters by hand but I will probably turn bowls & plates under 12" too.

Two heavy sharpening chores
Making round objects from wood spinning at high speed is a whole other thing in terms of dulling up tools. I am also facing a number of challenges sharpening: drawknives, inshaves, travishers, large gouges, adzes...Turners and chair makers spend a great deal of time at their grinders. In the little turning I have done so far I have learned two things. First, hesitant beginning turners dull tools at an alarming rate. Secondly, working with dull turning tools is even more frustrating than dealing with dull tools in other woodworking tasks.

Current Workstations
I bought the standard Delta variable speed grinder a few months ago. I have two CBN wheels on the grinder, with a Veritas tool rest on one station and a Stuart Batty large round rest on the other station. Now I see why so many turners have multiple grinding stations. I may need/want two or more additional permanent stations for grinding/sharpening turning & green wood tools.

Additional Workstation Needs
1) a Wolverine station with Vari-grind 2 jig for sharpening spindle and bowl gouges. 2) MDF, hard felt, Razor Sharp (laminated paper) buffing wheel. Gouges and several other hand tools I use need a polished surface to work properly. I can use an MDF board with Veritas buffing compound, diamond film.....The issue I am finding is the turning tools need constant sharpening and the green woodworking tools need to be kept exceedingly sharp so they can continue to slice large amounts of wood at less than perfect angles to the grain. I think power buffing may be the answer for greenwood tools.

Buffing with a Lathe
Peter Galbert in his new book Chairmaker's Notebook came up with a good way to keep his green tools very sharp. He mounts a round dowel in his lathe and covers different sections in a variety of buffing compounds, which I have seen works well. The issue with this method being, the need to remove what is being turned to mount the buffing dowel then remove the dowel and remount the piece being worked...Spindles, the most numerous part type in chairs, are switched back and forth between the lathe and shave horse during the construction process I prefer. Spindles could be done just with hand tools or just with the lathe but the method I think produces the best spindles fastest accomplishes parts of the work on both tools, frequently swapping back & forth. I like to use drawknives and spokeshaves which work within the grain pattern very well for roughing long spindles, final fitting on the lathe. With short wide spindles that do not flex I may rough the spindles with the lathe, switch to a spokeshave to retain the rough appearance and then finish on the lathe.

I am new to turning and hope to get some input on whether or not the four work stations (especially the specific sharpening jigs & rests) I mention above should handle the majority of my turning sharpening needs? A "normal" turner might be able to get rid of the Veritas tool rest and replace it with the Oneway station but I need it for plane blades...

[Thom Sturgill]

If you learn how to platform grind the setup you have will work fine for turning tools. The Batty rest was available to mount in a wolverine jig, but don't know if that was a totally separate item or not, or even if it is still available. The best setup would probably be to have the woverine jig with the vari-grind AND a good rest like the Batty that fits in the wolverine base. Looiking at the Batty rest online, you should be able to fashion an arm to fit its receiver and use with the vari-grind.

I use a 6" grinder that has two buffing wheels for polishing my wife's carving tools. One has a basic metal buffing compound and the other the green honing compound. Works well for me. I also touch up my turning skew there.

[Reed Gray]

Well, one can never have too many toys... Since you are using so many different types of tools, you will most likely need a couple of different set ups. The edges you need for turning tools are different than what you would use for most of your hand tools. The turning set ups would be better for roughing your bench tools, but not good for the final edge. Between the Delta grinder you have and maybe one of the Tormek or other wet wheel clones, that would pretty much cover you for most of you want to do. Of course, you have other options. I have a number of clips up on You Tube (just type in robo hippy), and a couple cover sharpening on just about all of the different set ups. I guess as much depends on how much money you want to spend. There is a lot you can make fairly simply. Having several set ups would help with time savings if you don't have to set up and take down for each operation.

robo hippy

[Michelle Rich]

strongest long thin spindles are rived and spoke shaved WITH the grain..

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I setup a new low-speed grinder a few years ago - D-Way CBN wheels with a wolverine system and one of Reed's Robo-Rest platforms that fits in the wolverine base. I kept my old grinder setup with matrix wheels (Norton SG) with the idea that I'd need it once in a while. Truth is, it hasn't been used in at least a couple of years now. I've got the wolverine varigrind pocket setup on the 180 CBN wheel for sharpening and touch-up, and the Robo-Rest is pretty much permanently on the 80 grit wheel for scrapers and the odd shaping job. It's a sweet setup that handles pretty much every turning tool I use. In a pinch, either can be switched to both wheels when needed.

[Thomas Canfield]

Someone should be jumping in about not using CBN wheels on carbon steel and a second grinder/sharpening station might be in order there. I still have not gone to the CBN wheels, but everyone says that is the way to go.

[Dennis Ford]

I really like a CBN wheel; they can be used on hardened carbon steel so should be OK for carving and turning tools.

As to the original question; one grinder with a CBN wheel on one side, a set of water stones and a MDF wheel for final honing works for sharpening everything I use. The MDF wheel gets mounted on a lathe when I use it (may get around to making a more permanent set-up for it).

[Mike Holbrook]

Thom, I tried to buy the Batty rest to work on a Wolverine base when I bought what I have, but the regular ones were all they had. At the time they told me there was a problem with production of some sort and Woodworkers Emporium was the only place that had SB rests. I just talked to Woodworkers Emporium and they now have the wolverine adapters and other Batty tools as well. I may buy a Oneway Vari-Grind #2 with base and the adapter that works with the Batty large round rest.

I have heard differing stories about whether or not CBN wheels can be used with regular steal. So far I have not had any trouble grinding various types of steel on my CBN wheels.

[Thom Sturgill]

The 'trick' to the wolverine jig is to place a pocket in the right spot for the vari-grind. Capt. Eddie has a rig that works well for doing the Ellsworth grind which uses a fixed appliance as opposed to the movable arm on the Varigrind. Interestingly very few vari-grind users move the arm one they have it where they want it. The point is making a wooden arm that fits the mount you have should be trivial. A metal one would be better, but the SB mount uses a rectangular, rather than square, arm.

CBN works well as long as the metal is hardened. If grinding carbon steel or even HSS and grinding past the point at which zone-hardening worked can clog the face of the wheel. Difficult but not impossible to clean by grinding some more hard steel - like by sharpening a thick wood-turning scraper. It is cooler cutting than even friable wheels so it is not necessary to quench as often. BTW, DO NOT quench HSS. It can damage the metal. HSS can get way past blue before changing the tempering.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thom, you are suggesting making a different mounting piece for the Wolverine vari-grind that would fit into the Batty (SB) mount?

The design of the Delta grinder base or the short arbor, take your pick, causes a problem with the SB mounting system. The SB base will not fit under the wheel, like the instructions for placing/attaching the mount suggest. The Delta grinders base is too wide, extending too close to the wheel. Although the mount works in front of the grinder the location is more awkward to work with, requiring additional bench space and reaching over the mount just to get to the wheels. The picture shows the worst case, mounting the SB on the other side of the grinder still does not allow it to fit under the wheel.

313009

There is another thread running about CBN vs friable wheels. It seems to me the Delta Grinder is designed to use the thinner friable or buffing wheels. I was thinking about buying a little better grinder to run the CBN wheels on. I could then mount one friable wheel and a buffing wheel on the Delta grinder rather than fight with trying to adapt the Delta grinder to jobs it may not be designed for.

I tried to research grinders here on SMC but I was not able to figure much out regarding the various features of the many types of grinders, so I went the cheap grinder route to at least get me going. Seems like the most cost effective solution is frequently the least flexible and most limiting solution as well.

Has anyone used the "Razor Sharp Edgemaking" wheels Woodcraft sells? They make a fast cutting and buffing wheels from laminated paper that are suppose to run very cool?

[Thom Sturgill]

Yes that is what I was suggesting, but given that the base does not fit where it needs to be, that does cause a problem. Especially since it appears that if you raised the grinder the platform would not be tall enough. I had originally asked if the platform could be adapted to the wolverine base because I knew that SB made a platform for the wolverine.

Making you own arm to hold the VariGrind would be an option if the SB mount fit under the grinder wheel.
Woodworkers Emporium lists the Wolverine adapter arm for $25
http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/image/cache/data/Products/SB%20Tools/Volv_adapt-228x228.jpg
That is probably the way to go unless you like making jigs and tools. You can buy the wolverine base for $33 and the V arm for $20 from Packard or the base system for $90 which includes 2 bases, the arm and a platform (I think the SB is better) Here's my setup - same grinder I think:
313025
Standard wolverine base system, two CBN wheels, vari-grind and raptor jigs to set spacing for correct angles. I plan on raising the grinder on a new stand so that the spindle is at the same height as the lathe.

[Mike Holbrook]

Nice Thom! Looks like you are using two Wolverine bases on your Delta grinder.

I can see the arbor sticking through the nut on your rounded edge wheel. I have a similar, or the same CBN wheel, but my arbor does not reach through the nut. The base on my grinder is different than the base on your grinder too. The grinder body on mine is almost the exact width of the base, leaving only the arbor protruding past the base of the unit. I am wondering if the Wolverine bases will fit under the CBN wheels on my Delta grinder.

The design of my Delta grinder seems to limit it and I am loath to order more parts that may not work with it.

[Thom Sturgill]

I see that the base on yours is square on the end rather than pointed like mine. Note that the wolverine base centers on the wheel and the inner edge sets flush with the inside of the wheel.I just went out to the shop to verify that. A ruler placed on the inside rim of the wheel such that it touches in two places just touches the wolverine. That should allow the wolverine base to mount under the wheel. The grinder may need to be elevated to allow the base to sit under the wheel, though mine does not.

OneWay does not specify the height from center of base to center of wheel. Ellsworth does for his grinding jig which is why there are after-market arms that let you set that height.

[Olaf Vogel]

Now I see why so many turners have multiple grinding stations. I may need/want two or more additional permanent stations for grinding/sharpening turning & green wood tools.

I am new to turning and hope to get some input on whether or not the four work stations (especially the specific sharpening jigs & rests) I mention above should handle the majority of my turning sharpening needs? A "normal" turner might be able to get rid of the Veritas tool rest and replace it with the Oneway station but I need it for plane blades...


Its a nice convenience to have multiple stations set up. Assuming you have the time/space. All my gear is used, old, restored, so generally its cheap.

A 1960's 10" Black and Decker for most of my sharpening. A VariGrind on one side for gouges. A flat plate for scrapers on the other side.
Oneway Wheel balancer to keep it smooth - works great! Generic 80 grit wheels - I find they provide a smooth enough edge and cant justify the cost of CBN wheels. I just don't have the patience for fine tuning more than that.
I like the Ellesworth quote in his book. "just keep the grinder running and grind a new edge. I'm a woodturner, not a tool sharpener!" :)

My other one is a 1930's 12" 3 hp, for major grinding, shaping custom tools and cleaning off equipment.
A wire wheel on the other side is great for cleaning off rust, dirt etc. I need tools for restoring old tools...(I know...its a circular argument)

Both have very heavy, large cast iron guards for safety, large eye shields and exhaust vents hooked to the exhaust system.
I really hate the dust that comes off. Very messy and probably really bad for you.

There's two other cheap/small "grinders" that I picked up off CL. They are inaccurate, noisy and not expected to last forever - I consider them disposable and paid <$50 each
I tossed the guards, added extensions for the buffing wheels which are mounted far out from the centre for better access to the inside of bowls.
This lets me use different grits on each wheel, move from one to the other quickly when buffing and not change equipment. Very convenient - if you have space.

These are mounted to my "Sanding station" that's portable. I wheel it outside in good weather, enjoy the sun and let the wind blow all the dust away.
Hopefully it will get lots of use this weekend.

[John K Jordan]

You have some great tools. I'm always surprised by beginning turners who haven't given much thought to sharpening. I guess I shouldn't be since I was one long ago. Now I use four grinders and two other sharpeners for various tasks.

I read the other comments quickly and didn't see mention of my favorite sharpener for lathe tools - the Tormek. It sometimes gets bad press due to the expense and because it is very slow to shape or reshape a tool. I have been using mine for, yikes, maybe 15 years?, and I would hate to do certain types of woodturning without it. In fact, I'm considering getting a second.

The Tormek is a slow speed 10" wheel (about 2" wide I'm guessing) that runs in water with various jigs for gouges, skews, etc. A leather honing wheel can be added.

The speed complaints are both valid and unfounded. Once the gouge is shaped, I can restore a razor sharp edge in about 20 seconds, maybe a minute total away from the lathe. The stone is relatively smooth so the edge is smooth, translating to very good surfaces on hard woods. Only an extremely small amount of steel is removed each time, far less than my Wolverine jig on a conventional slow-speed grinder.

Yes, shaping a tool for the fist time can be extremely tedious. However I have solved this: I made a mount and use a separate Tormek tool support rod with my standard slow-speed bench grinder. Since it uses the exact Tormek jig the shape is perfect for later sharpenings on the Tormek. This makes initial shaping very quick. I see Tormek now sells a mount for this purpose.

Jet and others sell a Tormek clone but from what I've read, I would stick with the Tormek.

JKJ