I want a CNC router setup.....

[Dennis Peacock]

I'm looking and making guitars and bass guitar along with many flatwork applications. I'm trying to get myself all setup for when I retire in several years. I'm looking for a starter setup like the Laguna IQ with 4'x4' table and the VCarve software. What are your thoughts?
No, I'm not looking for anything to work fast....just to work while I do something else. :)
Think low budget starter. :D

[William Adams]

I’ve just finished assembling my Shapeoko 3, a hobby-level CNC kit, which is muchly upgraded over the v2 — 85x55mm extrusions w/ no slots to detract from the rigidity. Initial working area is 16x16", but the designer just got some 5.5' extrusions to test and design a pair of upgrade kits which should afford a much larger work area: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5987

Still updating the wiki, but you may find it a useful resource even if you choose another machine: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3

[james mcgrew]

If considering the laguna I sure would not rule out the CAMaster machines.

[Curt Stivison]

I have an AXIOM PRO 6 that I am very happy with. There spindle is cooled by a cooling system attached to the gantry and it does not need a external pump and bucket. If you are near Columbus, Ohio the WOODWERKS store has both the Axiom and the Laquna on the showroom floor. You can see both of them operate.

[John Coloccia]

I just sold the CNC machine I had acquired for guitar building. After two years, I figured out that it wasn't saving me any time, and it was actually something of a nuisance. Unless you're building lots and lots of guitars, it's not worth it, IMHO, and you'll spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring out fixtures and things like that. Anyhow, that's just my opinion.

edit:
just wanted to mention that it will be much more useful for flatwork, and maybe carving, than for guitars. It's much easier to hold down and deal with flatwork. I DID find the CNC to be very useful making jigs and things like that, though.

[Roy Nielsen]

I’ve just finished assembling my Shapeoko 3 ...

William,

Consider writing a review in a separate thread after you've had some time on it. I've been watching the progress of the SO 3 for a few months and it sounds like it could be a great small/mid size machine. Even though I already have a somewhat larger DIY machine, I've sometimes thought that a smaller machine might be nice at a later time in addition to my current machine, especially if I got busy doing 3D carvings. I've pointed a few people to watch the SO 3, see how it performs for various tasks.

[Mick A Martin]

I just sold the CNC machine I had acquired for guitar building. After two years, I figured out that it wasn't saving me any time, and it was actually something of a nuisance. Unless you're building lots and lots of guitars, it's not worth it, IMHO, and you'll spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring out fixtures and things like that. Anyhow, that's just my opinion.

edit:
just wanted to mention that it will be much more useful for flatwork, and maybe carving, than for guitars. It's much easier to hold down and deal with flatwork. I DID find the CNC to be very useful making jigs and things like that, though.

I agree with John, it takes about 6 months before you really understand and feel comfortable operating a CNC. I bought my CNC 4 years ago and now I use it for everything, but there is a learning curve. As Jim McGrew stated take a look at CAMaster, they build solid machines and have a great forum.

[William Adams]

Consider writing a review in a separate thread after you've had some time on it. I've been watching the progress of the SO 3 for a few months and it sounds like it could be a great small/mid size machine.

Thanks!

I think it’s a great machine — problem is, I’m not exactly unbiased.

If there’s someone w/in a reasonable driving distance of Mechanicsburg, Pa, I’d be willing to bring my machine to them for a day to try out if they’d be willing to write up such a review. Things this would need:

- track record of writing reviews of equipment in the forum
- real interest in CNC
- an original project design suited to being done in a 16" x 16" x 3" work area
- materials for said project suited to being cut on an SO3 w/ the bits I have (mostly 1/8", Upcut, square and a ball-end — I’ve also got a 90 degree V-bit and some other 1/4" router bits)
- a free Saturday or Sunday and a willingness to set up and photograph the machine in your workshop

Anyone who is interested, send me a PM w/ your location and link(s) to your reviews (here or other sites would be fine) and we’ll see what can be worked out. I’ve got a few things on the family calendar, but should be able to be flexible enough to work this out.

[Mike Heidrick]

You running it with nema23s William? Is the controller pololu/clone stepper based? Is it still T2 belt on x and y?

[William Adams]

You running it with nema23s William? Is the controller pololu/clone stepper based? Is it still T2 belt on x and y?

The SO3 got upgraded to NEMA23 motors by default (only full kits shipping thus far and no provision on the plates for NEMA17s). Batch 1 kits are shipping w/: Wantai model: 57BYGH218-1 2.0A, 200 step, 125 oz./in.

Controller is a custom board which incrporates an Arduino running Grbl 0.9 --- high resolution (7.1MB) image here: http://timf.anansi-web.com/images/misc/carbide3d.jpg --- I'd appreciate your thoughts on it. What I've found is here: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3#Carbide_3D_control_board

GT2 2mm belts (6mm wide) w/ 20-tooth pulleys on all 3 axes --- wondering if an Acme screw can be made to fit on the Z-, and going to try 9mm wide on X- and Y-, but the belts seems fine thus far --- drawing up a dust shoe now, so haven't cut much.

I'm actually worried they're not charging enough to make a reasonable profit --- the kit is ~50 lbs., much of which is extruded aluminum. Posted my initial thoughts here: http://www.reddit.com/r/shapeoko/comments/32siyz/started_assembling_my_shapeoko_3_last_night/

[Dennis Peacock]

Lot's of good info there folks. I guess I need to rethink all this over. Most of what people are recommending is twice (or more) my budget. Maybe I need to find some local people that are willing to invest with me so I can get things started. :)

I'll keep researching and reading and learning. Then I will figure out what I need/want to do. Thank you all very much.

[John Sanford]

I’ve just finished assembling my Shapeoko 3, a hobby-level CNC kit, which is muchly upgraded over the v2 — 85x55mm extrusions w/ no slots to detract from the rigidity. Initial working area is 16x16", but the designer just got some 5.5' extrusions to test and design a pair of upgrade kits which should afford a much larger work area: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5987

Still updating the wiki, but you may find it a useful resource even if you choose another machine: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3

William,

Why did you choose the SO 3 over the X-Carve?

[William Adams]

Why did you choose the SO 3 over the X-Carve?

- really thick-walled 85x55mm extrusions w/ no slots to reduce the rigidity
- improved engineering --- the X-carve X-axis carriage actually builds into the extrusion the spacing of the Shapeoko 2's unconnected X-axis rails (which remains as the low-hanging fruit for making a Shapeoko 2 or X-Carve more rigid)
- better options for expandability --- a Shapeoko 2 (or X-Carve) can reasonably be expanded along the Y-axis by adding side supports up to a pretty much arbitrary length --- but the X-axis pretty much has to be re-built if one wants to go beyond the stock 500mm extrusions (and even at the stock length, one should go to the effort to fasten them together)

As a bonus, I got a free upgrade to NEMA23 motors.

The Shapeoko 2 (and by extension the X-Carve which is substantially the same design) is a great machine, at its stock size, but if one wants to expand, one realizes that it is at the limits of what Makerslide can reasonably be expected to do --- I think it's pretty telling that Inventables hasn't been publishing any numbers on Makerslide Load-bearing

[Dennis Peacock]

So.....let me ask this.......

Stinger II and ShopBot PRSstandard would be 2 good choices..???? Is the Stinger II better outfit "standard" than the Shopbot? I'm just trying to learn here and figure out what is really needed to make a nice CNC router setup where I don't need to spend another $6K on upgrades, options, and ya-gotta-have-this kind of thing. :)

[Peter Swann]

If the IQ's in the budget, why not get it? Completely turnkey, real spindle, no funky frankenstein software to worry about.

I've been doing this for a little over a year now, and I can't believe how important the fine control of spindle speed has been. (I like to work with different types of hardwood, metal and plastic, and they all have very different needs). Plus, working in an area that is often over 100 degrees, liquid cooling has been really good to have.

I'm sure these other machines have some slick attributes, but the adaptation of a home center router to CNC was a dealkiller for me. I can't imagine anyone saying that that is the "best" solution for CNC work.

[William Adams]

I’m actually looking to eventually upgrade my Makita RT-0701 to a spindle, probably a Kress — the reason I didn’t start w/ the latter is the price — it’s several times more expensive.

For a lot of people, having the “spindle” be an affordable, easily sourced trim router (or even rotary tool) makes the difference between an affordable option, and a too-expensive impossibility.

Is it the “best”? No. Is it the best value? Yes (if one wants a more affordable machine and ~$1,000 is one's budget)

[Peter Swann]

I’m actually looking to eventually upgrade my Makita RT-0701 to a spindle, probably a Kress — the reason I didn’t start w/ the latter is the price — it’s several times more expensive.

For a lot of people, having the “spindle” be an affordable, easily sourced trim router (or even rotary tool) makes the difference between an affordable option, and a too-expensive impossibility.

Is it the “best”? No. Is it the best value? Yes.


Can't agree. A shopbot with a 24x18 envelope and a router is $5K. And it weighs only 100 lbs. A Stinger I, comparably sized to the IQ, but with a 2.25 HP router, is $6.5K. My 450 lb 24x36 IQ with a 3HP liquid cooled ER20 spindle, VFD and controller (untethered to Windows) was $5500. How is the sub-optimal solution the best value?

[William Adams]

Fair enough.

It's a value which people can access w/ a reasonable initial investment.

The O.P. has stated that the options suggested thus far are too expensive --- I dunno if the SO3 is also too expensive, but it's a lot more affordable, and a lot less than $5,000 --- scarcely a fourth that --- 16" x 16" work envelope, reasonable precision, not as rigid or fast, but w/ patience and reasonable settings and expectation will provide a decent return.

I believe the Shapeoko is the best value for machines around $1,000 or so in price --- naturally physics are inexorable, and one gets a completely different class of machine at different price levels.

[Joe Craven]

Just stumbled across this in doing a search. FWIW, I just ordered the X-Carve from Inventables and it now comes in 1000x1000 mm form factor (or, usable work area of ~31" square). So, there's no longer the limitation that William mentions on the X axis of the 500 mm (which after overhead, translates to about 12" of usable width on the smaller X-Carve model). I think with the 31" of width and the ability to reposition a long workpiece, in the middle of a carving job, that (for me) the big model will be plenty.

[William Adams]

Please go back and read what I wrote, then look up the various ways people have reinforced the gantry rails on the SO2 and X-Carve. Inventables selling a 1000mm X-axis upgrade doesn't change the laws of physics.

If you use 1000mm rails for the X-axis, you'll probably find yourself reinforcing and/or fastening those rails together. Similarly for the Y-axis, get side supports.

[Joe Craven]

I didn't need to re-read what you wrote, William, but I went ahead and did that anyway. Quite simply, in your message on 04/27, by typing "...if one wants to go beyond the stock 500mm extrusions..." you implied that the only x-axis rail option was 500mm. I was mainly making a comment that they offer a bigger model.


FWIW, though, the X-Carve is an entry-level machine in both of its form factors. I'm well aware that some people have been "beefing up" the stock unit, but I'm not planning on pushing the machine at a production level so I'll trust that the mechanical engineers who designed this machine know more than I do about rigidity, etc., to suit the needs of a hobbyist. Otherwise I'd be spending a lot more on a production unit.

[William Adams]

Don't trim, obscuring the meaning of what I wrote:

I wrote:

>- better options for expandability --- a Shapeoko 2 (or X-Carve) can reasonably be
>expanded along the Y-axis by adding side supports up to a pretty much arbitrary length ---
>but the X-axis pretty much has to be re-built if one wants to go beyond the stock 500mm extrusions
>(and even at the stock length, one should go to the effort to fasten them together)

There's a link on the Shapeoko wiki which discusses Scaling Up and includes information about the various upgrade options. (which was trimmed from my post by a moderator)

and the context was contrasting the expandability to that of the SO3. Noting that reinforcement is necessary in that context does not imply that the un-reinforced upgrade is not available.

[larry kruzan]

I started my CNC journey with a Shapeoko 2 kit that was 1 meter by 1 meter. By the time I had figured out how to used, I realized that it was not going to be strong enough for my needs. I want to stress "My Needs".

If you're cutting balsawood for RC planes, go for it, and it will do ok cutting softwoods at a reasonable rate, but if you are going to tackle harder wood species you are going to need to do some work to one. I added a steel plate between the gantry extrusions and bolted the assembly together and added 1/4" thick 2" angle to support the entire length of the side rails. After all this I could hang a 1.5kw water cooled spindle (way overkill for this frame BTW) and not see it deflect 1/4" from tool loading.

I quickly pulled the big spindle off and replaced it with the 300 watt quiet spindle Inventables sells. This worked like a champ - except it couldn't use bigger than 1/4" shank router bits (the majority of mine are 1/2" shank) and it really bogged down at higher tool loads - it is only a 1/3 horse motor (I'm being generous here).

What ended up happening is that I sat the Shapeoko aside and started from scratch building a CNC router around the spindle I wanted to use. As soon as I figure out how to post a couple pics, I'll let you have a look. The key numbers are 20mm fully supported linear rails in all axis, gantry made of two 30mmx30mm square 15 series extrusions, movement by nema 23 425 ozin steppers driving 5 start acme screws XY & Z. Finished size is one meter square.

[Bruce Page]

Sounds like a nice build Larry. Welcome to SMC.