Does synthetic steel wool work with aniline dye?

[Frederick Skelly]

Ive got to use a water based dye on a table Ive built out of poplar. So I wiped it all down with a damp rag to raise the grain. Now I have to knock it back down before applying the water-based dye. The wood planed so beautifully that I really dont want to sand it. Regular steel wool will leave fibers that rust. This 3M synthetic stuff is "0" grit but they claim it wont rust.

Think its safe to use here?

Thanks guys!
Fred

[george wilson]

You can buy bronze wool from Brownell's. Hopefully it won't turn green. The Scotchbrite type stuff might be the best bet.

I don't like steel wool or Scotchbrite on wood anyway. It abrades the pores more open looking by rounding off their edges.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Whatever you do - do NOT use steel wool. You will live to regret it.

I will never get into a disagreement with George. There lie Dragons.

However, I use the white Scotch Brite Pads in this application, or, more often, 3M 216U Gold sandpaper, 400g or 600g - very light touch to just knock down the fibers .

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys!

George, they had bronze wool at the store but the package said "rust resistant", which made me nervous. The last thing I want are fibers stuck in the wood and rusting. (Kent, Im guessing thats where your well deserved warning comes from?) Maybe this is a crappy brand or something?

[Kent A Bathurst]

The last thing I want are fibers stuck in the wood and rusting. Kent, Im guessing thats where your well deserved warning comes from?

Bingo. Steel/Iron + Moisture [even humidity] = Rust. Looks lovely under 4 - 5 coats of varnish. You will get an up-close look at it as you bang your head against it, cursing.

[george wilson]

A good place to use bronze wool is when you are polishing the frets n an electric guitar. It doesn't get stuck all over the magnetic pickups,where it can be real trouble to get rid of.

[Stew Denton]

Fred,

I am fairly hesitant to chime in here because I have no experience with bronze wool. For that reason decided to limit myself to the chemistry involved.

Specifically, rust is a corrosion product that is strictly iron based. Folks think of it being just iron oxide, but in fact it is a complex mixture of iron compounds including various iron oxides, iron hydroxides, iron carbonates, hydrated iron hydroxides, etc., etc., etc.

If a metal does not have any significant amount of iron in it, it can not then technically "rust." Thus bronze cannot "rust" since it is an alloy of brass and tin. However, folks do sometimes use the terms "rust" and "corrode" interchangeably, even though they do not mean exactly the same thing.

In very dry climates, copper, the main component of bronze oxides to a dark copper color. In more humid areas, it further reacts to form a light green color. In areas that have some hydrogen sulfide in the air, the copper will corrode to give a black copper sulfide color. These different colors are all the result of corrosion, but again, technically are not "rust."

That said, bronze is far more corrosion resistant than is the mild steel that steel wool is made from. Steel wool pads have small amounts of oil present as a coating for the steel to protect it from rust as much as possible. If you rinse the oil off with a paint thinner, followed by rinsing the paint thinner off with acetone, then dampen the steel wool, in all probability it will very quickly rust. Bronze will very slowly oxidize over a period of time if threated in a similar fashion.

Thus, in conclusion, I think that the manufacture of the bronze wool decided to include the term "rust resistant" because although bronze corrodes far more slowly than mild steel it will corrode over a period of time. Although the resulting copper based corrosion products are technically not "rust", since not all purchasers understand the difference between "rust" and "copper based corrosion products", the manufacturer probably just decided to defer to this common term and label the product as "rust resistant." We used to say "discretion is the better part of valor" in such cases.

Putting that term on the product likely does not mean that it is cheap or poor quality necessarily, it is probably just a marketing decision based on the common usage and probably made to protect the company from law suits and from customer rejection of further purchases when they begin to see small amounts of corrosion on the product.

My opinion only.

Stew

[James Waldron]

Fred,

I am fairly hesitant to chime in here because I have no experience with bronze wool. For that reason decided to limit myself to the chemistry involved.

Specifically, rust is a corrosion product that is strictly iron based. Folks think of it being just iron oxide, but in fact it is a complex mixture of iron compounds including various iron oxides, iron hydroxides, iron carbonates, hydrated iron hydroxides, etc., etc., etc.

If a metal does not have any significant amount of iron in it, it can not then technically "rust." Thus bronze cannot "rust" since it is an alloy of brass and tin. However, folks do sometimes use the terms "rust" and "corrode" interchangeably, even though they do not mean exactly the same thing.

In very dry climates, copper, the main component of bronze oxides to a dark copper color. In more humid areas, it further reacts to form a light green color. In areas that have some hydrogen sulfide in the air, the copper will corrode to give a black copper sulfide color. These different colors are all the result of corrosion, but again, technically are not "rust."

That said, bronze is far more corrosion resistant than is the mild steel that steel wool is made from. Steel wool pads have small amounts of oil present as a coating for the steel to protect it from rust as much as possible. If you rinse the oil off with a paint thinner, followed by rinsing the paint thinner off with acetone, then dampen the steel wool, in all probability it will very quickly rust. Bronze will very slowly oxidize over a period of time if threated in a similar fashion.

Thus, in conclusion, I think that the manufacture of the bronze wool decided to include the term "rust resistant" because although bronze corrodes far more slowly than mild steel it will corrode over a period of time. Although the resulting copper based corrosion products are technically not "rust", since not all purchasers understand the difference between "rust" and "copper based corrosion products", the manufacturer probably just decided to defer to this common term and label the product as "rust resistant." We used to say "discretion is the better part of valor" in such cases.

Putting that term on the product likely does not mean that it is cheap or poor quality necessarily, it is probably just a marketing decision based on the common usage and probably made to protect the company from law suits and from customer rejection of further purchases when they begin to see small amounts of corrosion on the product.

My opinion only.

Stew

I do boat work. No steel wool allowed on any of the boats. EVER.

We use bronze wool a good bit. It does not rust at all. Over time, the surface will oxidize, but the oxide layer is stable and tightly adherent and isn't going anywhere without a fight, so it's not the kind of problem rust is. It won't stain wood. It won't stain finishes. It won't stain fasteners.

Boat propellors are made of bronze. They last for centuries.

Cast bronze statues are often quite beautiful and don't rust away. Take a look at Rodin's "The Thinker" for an outdoor example of cast bronze sculpture. You can see it with a quick trip to Paris or a quick trip to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thinker). I'm sure your wife would prefer the Paris option - and great brownie points, too!

Bronze wool would be fine for your project. It doesn't cut as fast or as deep as steel wool and isn't readily available in very fine fibers, but it is great for well planed surfaces because it doesn't cut too deep. The bronze fibers work more like a tiny cabinet scraper than like sandpaper. You'd be fine.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Even with iron, it's not the rust itself that causes the problem on wood, but the dark products formed by reaction with tannic acids in the wood. See "iron gall ink" on wikipedia, for instance.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys! I'll try the bronze wool then. I appreciate the help!
Fred