Gutter, Soffit, Fascia Board Help Needed

[Rich Riddle]

We live in a home atop a very high hill with no wind break so sometimes there are gale or hurricane force winds. Gale force winds happen frequently. Last week a wind ripped a fascia board along with the gutter right off the East side of our home. Last year, a wind ripped the screened porch off the neighbors house, so in comparison this isn't so bad.

A few comments.

1. The house has vaulted ceilings that abut the roof line, so there is no such thing as a vented space in this home. I didn't design or build it; it was that way when purchased.
2. We tend to get more than a fair amount of water. This house gets soaked from all directions.
3. The design of the "soffit" seems a function of the aesthetics more than anything. It could have just as easily been angled just like the roof line.
4. Currently the width of the soffit cannot be measured. The ground is far more than soaked and won't support a ladder.
5. It appears the contractors who built the soffit simply placed a horizontal board to the brick veneer and tied it to the house that way.

I have a few questions.

1. Soffit Questions

Should I change the soffit material which right now appears to only be plywood? If so, what material would you recommend? Is there an advantage to placing vented soffits in the space? Is a light weight option a good choice? Should the new material if used simply be fitted over the old plywood? Should the shape of the soffit be changed to follow the roof contour? Any disadvantage to placing an outlet in the soffit for holiday lights?

2. Fascia Questions

What material would you use for fascia? Would you scab in individual pieces between the current "rafters" in order for the new fascia to screw into stronger wood rather than simply nail into end grain? Screws or nails? Would you use a new concrete board or Azek type of plastic in this situation?

3. Gutter Questions

What size gutters would you use? What material type of gutters would you recommend? What shape of gutters would you recommend? The roofer didn't install drip edge. Can that be retrofitted?

Any other thoughts you have are appreciated.

311842 311843

[Mel Fulks]

Covering a lot of ground! Got some of that going on right now. Since your house is on a hill I would try to eliminate at least some of the gutter sections by improving grade around perimeter, I'm eliminating one section at a steep slope. Using
standard 5 inch gutters with Costco sponge type filler to help stop clogging. Useing two oversized downspouts on each run.
New fascia is KD heart poplar with a five degree angle on bottom edge,seven degrees would have been better. Fascia is
being primed and painted all around before being screwed to new blocking added to rafter sides. Fascia will have more lap
hanging over soffit than old stuff had. Eliminating gutter spikes and using K brackets.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Photos liik "not promising", Rich.

Others more expert than me here, probably. But....

1. No drip cap sounds ominous. I would get a roofer in to look into that bit, and to check for rot in the substrate the shingles are attached to. Can I assume you get snow buildup in the winter? So the edges of the substrate get wet? Sounds very suboptimal.
2. Tear out all that plywood soffet and fascia. Don't leave it there and just cover it up. No good can come of that.
3. Vents in soffet - depends on how well ventilated your attic is today? If its OK, then I don't see a need.
4. Materials: How often to you want to paint? Cedar boards are common. Plus there are now about one-half jillion products like Azek out there. Never paint, never rot. The source of the material can tell you the best way to attach [assuming you get the material at a pro lumberyard, and not a BORG].
5. Recepts for Christmas lights..................why not, if that is a part of your holiday decorations?

[Rich Riddle]

Because of the way the ceiling follows the roof, no attic exists.

[Neil Gaskin]

1) We typically use AC ply or rough fir ply for soffit in my neck of the woods for repairs as that is what most "older" homes have. James Hardi also makes soffit material or sheets if your soffit depth does not match there pre-made depths. If you use plywood, we always backprime everything outside. Its probably overkill for a soffit but it doesnt hurt.

If you can see baffles holding the insulation down about an inch or two from the underside of the sheathing, go ahead with vents, if you do not see baffles and the insulation is tight to the bottom of the roof sheating the vents will not do you any good as there is no where to actually "vent" the air. A continuous strip vent is better than the metal baffles. Dont waste your time with the plastic or metal round pop ins, if you have any degree of seasonal movement in the soffit material they wont hold and you'll find them in your yard.

James Hardi soffit can be had with the continous vent, if you use plywood there are premade sections you can let into the plywood. You would use two rips of ply rather than one. Around me you are more likely to find this at a roofing supply than a lumber yard.

2) I wouldnt go in between the rafters unless you are going over it. This is not something we've ever done though, even with a sub fascia we nail it to the end of the rafters. Depending on if it's 3/4 or 1 1/2" material we would use an 8D or 12D ring-shank double hot dip galvanized nail to install it. If you are in a costal enviorment stainless steel would be prefered.

Most of our Fascia is Inland Cedar or Cyprus, primed on all sides and the cut edges prior to install.

I wouldnt use screws but I may consider it in your situation since you mentioned high wind. Im not a fan of Hardi trim for a variety of reasons, we use a lot of azek but not typically for fascia. Wood just holds gutter screws etc. better.

3) Gutter size really depends on how much roof is draining on to it but with that said, larger gutters are never a bad idea. Style and shape is more personal preferance than function in my opinion. 6" K style with 3x4 down spouts will handle most situations.

The drip is more concerning. I would have a roofer do this, it can be installed now, but you're likely not going to be able to do it without a little removal and replacement of the roofing.

[Justin Ludwig]

I would used Smart Siding for the soffit and fascia. They made soffit in Smart Siding that comes with vents precut. You may need to rip the fascia depending on your rafters, but I imagine you can order the width needed bases on 2x6 or what have you.

http://www.lpcorp.com/products/siding/lp-smartside-trim-siding/

Nail to the rafters, caulk and paint. Install a drip edge or have a gutter man come measure for gutters. Size depends on roof pitch.

We soaked a piece of the smart trim for 2 weeks in water because of their claims. It came out in the same condition it went in. None of the houses we've built and used it on have had any problems with it.

[Bryan Rocker]

I would agree with pitching the plywood, while plywood is ok it is not what I ever installed as the facia on new builds. I wouldn't rule out going back with a primed dimensional lumber screwed into the rafters and joists. I would also look at adding some sort of hurricane tie downs. If you want maintenance free go over the top of the facia with metal and stuff it behind your drip edge, again using screws. If your taking wind damage I would forget using nails. IF your house is old and you don't have a ton of insulation in the attic I would take this time to float some baffles in there......

[Neil Gaskin]

I would used Smart Siding for the soffit and fascia. They made soffit in Smart Siding that comes with vents precut. You may need to rip the fascia depending on your rafters, but I imagine you can order the width needed bases on 2x6 or what have you.

http://www.lpcorp.com/products/siding/lp-smartside-trim-siding/

Nail to the rafters, caulk and paint. Install a drip edge or have a gutter man come measure for gutters. Size depends on roof pitch.

We soaked a piece of the smart trim for 2 weeks in water because of their claims. It came out in the same condition it went in. None of the houses we've built and used it on have had any problems with it.


I'm surprised you haven't had a problem with "Smart Siding" products. We replace an awful lot of it because it's rotten or delaminating. Most of the new home builders around here love it and I love them for it for the job security.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Neil --

Where, might I ask, is "around here"?

[Brian Elfert]

I'm surprised you haven't had a problem with "Smart Siding" products. We replace an awful lot of it because it's rotten or delaminating. Most of the new home builders around here love it and I love them for it for the job security.

Are you sure it isn't the LP Inner-Seal siding you are having issues with? LP paid out hundreds of millions to settle lawsuits regarding Inner-Seal. Smartside was introduced in 1997. LP claims they have never had a warranty claim with Smartside, but I highly doubt that.

[Jim Andrew]

The Masonite corp also made a product that looked like smart siding. It went bad, there was a lawsuit, and there was a settlement, and the company was sold. That siding started going bad after only a year or so. My neighbor had it on his house, and I replaced it with Hardy board, and there was no money left from the settlement. Smart siding seems to be a good product.

[Ole Anderson]

When I redid mine last summer prior to a re-roof due to hail, I (personally) replaced any rotted sub-fascia two-by with treated wood. Any rotted soffits were replaced with 3/8" RS ply (some was still in good shape after 40 years!) and I used a composite product called MiraTEC for the fascia trim boards. Don't even think of doing this project without having a drip edge professionally installed. A good roofer will also be able to advise you on venting for your situation. I reused my 5" gutters (single piece over 50 feet long) and reused some 6" gutters in a high flow area. And reused my Gutter Helmets.

[Justin Ludwig]

Neil,

We started using it in 2001. Not a call was received regarding it up until I quit building. I got out of building and focus on cabinets now, but my best friend is still a builder.

Like I said, we submerged a piece in water for 2 weeks in an attempt to challenge their claims of durability and water resistance. It held up. The piece wasn't soft or absorbing water even along the cuts. I'm not familiar with the lawsuit or product that Brian mentioned, but could that be what you're replacing?

[Rich Riddle]

For those of you recommending a composite type of fascia, how do the composites perform with holding screws or nails used with gutter brackets? When looking at that type of wood product, isn't it like MDF? If so, wouldn't you need fasteners to pass all the way through the fascia to bite into "real" wood in order to securely fasten the gutters? The reason for posing the question centers on the significant winds this new fascia and gutter will encounter. Thanks.

[Ole Anderson]

MiraTEC, while an economical choice, is like MDF on steroids. But you can nail it without predrilling. And your fascia boards should be backed up with two-by just so you have something to nail your soffit to. Forget using aluminum gutter nails, go for the gutter screws, much easier to install and to take out if you ever need to.

[Myk Rian]

with Costco sponge type filler to help stop clogging.
Good luck. They plug up worse than nothing. Leaves and things lay on the top, and the rain runs right off the gutter to the ground.

[Neil Gaskin]

Are you sure it isn't the LP Inner-Seal siding you are having issues with? LP paid out hundreds of millions to settle lawsuits regarding Inner-Seal. Smartside was introduced in 1997. LP claims they have never had a warranty claim with Smartside, but I highly doubt that.

I'm familiar with Inner-Seal, and yeah we've replaced miles of that, but even the smart siding that has been put up as soon as 10 years ago has been problematic for a number of my clients.

If kept maintained by caulking and painting as often as should be done, it's not a problem. It seems most folks aren't much on regular maintenance so we replace an awful lot of it.

Personally I see no real financial benefit from the smart products, in the scope of a whole home the material cost difference is minimal and the labor for hardi isn't much more either.