What got you into laser engraving and more

[Junior hall]

What got you into laser engraving .

How did you start your business, and where did you start it at.

[Dan Hintz]

I was paying $60/piece for an acrylic piece that sold for $90 and I could cut it myself for <$5... the decision kind of made itself.

[Mike Troncalli]

It was an easy jump for us.. We made custom gift items from wood. (cutting boards, knife blocks, etc.) things like that... We had enough requests for customizing on them and after paying someone else for engraving work for a couple of years looked at the numbers and realized it was time... Best investment so far.. As a matter of fact the entire business model had been changed to work around the laser... I think last year the laser itself counted for about 45% of the business.

[gary l roberts]

I was using a CNC to do the work. Saw a laser do it at a sign show... no clamps. so splinters, fast and much more detailed. No brainer.

[Joe Pelonio]

I had a sign business, and had been getting more requests for engraved items, which I was subbing out to a rotary engraver colleague. Then one of my customers who got a lot of laser work told me that he was unhappy with the quality and service and based on his purchase record if I bought one it would pay for itself in 6 months just from his orders. As it turned out, that was not the case, it was paid off even sooner but no thanks to him, I started to pick up other big customers quickly but his orders were only half of what he had told me.

[Bert Kemp]

For me it just looked like a cool thing to try, something to keep me busy in retirement. Made a huge mistake in my first laser purchase tho, but learned enough from it to know I wanted to continue doing it. Its mostly a hobby for me because its fun and making money with it is not a major concern altho I do try to sell a few things just to buy my materials for the stuff I give away. I've now found a niche market that if I pushed it a little I'd be working full time trying to keep up with the demand. I don't push at all but people keep asking for more. I don't want a full time job I'm retired I worked 41 years full time I wanna play now :)

[Don Corbeil]

A couple of years ago I saw some amazingly intricate paper cut artwork that just completely captured my imagination. I thought "this can't be done with an exacto, how the heck did they do it?!". Did some further research, thereby discovering the wonders of a laser on a variety of materials. I've always enjoyed creative work that is detail oriented, so I kind of got into it halfway as a creative (retirement) hobby, and halfway as a potential small niche business. There usually isn't a day gone by that I don't have some harebrained idea for applying the laser one way or another :rolleyes:

[Tim Bateson]

Reader's Digest version:

For me personally, I have been through 4 downsizings. I wanted something I can count on. I'm working hard to retire from my day-job in another 3 years, then make this my full-time occupation.

Why laser engraving - A friend and I had discussed start-ups. After kicking a lot of them around we settled on Laser Engraving. We each bought a laser & each now have our own thriving businesses.

[Junior hall]

wow very much interesting all types of reasons

I seen it done before and was amazed at what it can do and the detailed it has done. Ive been to flea markets with wood mirror drinking glasses and got nothing from it but some amazing people but no one bought nothing as i done things on the spot for people if interested but like said no one was interested. This is why i asked the question. I am waiting on Wal Mart to call me any time to let me know the rent price to rent a small section up front by the hearing aid place and sunglasses and the woods forest bank

I am a professional dog trainer and since the economy went down hill i lost every thing and now it seems every Tom and Harry are dog trainers now I still get one or 2 every now and then but no one has the money for basic obedience training which i charge 600 bucks for to keep the dog until finished. Every one else is 1100 bucks and they too are not getting any dogs to train Law enforcement are not buying dogs neither

Thanks for the replys very interesting how all got started thanks

[Robert Tepper]

I opened my engraving business 38 years ago in my apartment using a pantograph. I worked grave yard shift at McDonnell Douglas. I would go home, sleep for a few hours and then go knock on doors. One day I walked into Northrop/Grumman and walked out with a $150,000 two year contract to supply them with engraved nameplates, signs and rubber stamps. I did this during the day and worked graveyard for 6 months. I got laid off, bought a Dahlgren engraving machine, rented a small store, it grew and grew. One day my photopolymer machine for making rubber stamps caught on fire. I was farming my stamps out to another company to the tune of $800 a month. Buying the laser was much less expensive than $800 a month. Bought a Trotec, have had it three years and it is paid for, ready for a second one. Opened up business opportunities that I never knew existed.

Robert

[Mike Lysov]

Lost my job 6 years ago as a web developer and decided that I would never want to work as an employee for anybody. Started looking for what I could do and I think it was some video on youtube with laser cutting that I was impressed with. Since then my business has grown 4 times in terms of turnover. I do not do engraving, just laser cutting of MDF/timber and acrylic.

[Bruce Volden]

I wanted something more interesting to put into and on some music/jewelry boxes I made at the time. No body in my area had one so I bought one from LMI in Sommerset WI in 1995. I never advertised I had one but word got out and I ended up with 3 machines over the course of 3 years to keep up with demands from customers wanting their own things engraved or inlaid. I kept no inventory at the time. I am now burned out and do very little engraving and am down to 1 machine.

Bruce

[Patrick Smithwick]

A little over a year ago I had to have a couple firearms engraved and had to travel a good distance for somebody to laser engrave them. After seeing what he did and talking to him a bit I thought "I can Do that!" I mentioned it briefly to my wife who thought of it as another one of my hair brained ideas. After a month or so of research I showed her again my thoughts and she got excited about it. After moving a few things around financially we bought a laser and started the long journey of learning how to use it and market what we are doing. Now ten months later we are quite busy part time as i do have a "real job" as well! We just bought a fiber laser a month ago so that has opened up a whole new world as well. WE also do sublimation and vinyl cutting as well so are business seems to be well rounded. Every day we are blessed with the business that rolls in!

[Kev Williams]

The short version- I needed a laser to help keep up with the work. Had so many metal jobs for the tool machines I couldn't find time to engrave plastics. Got the machine, and once I found out--or more importantly, my CUSTOMERS- found out about lasering anodized aluminum, and Cermark for stainless, wasn't too long before we needed a second machine. Got our third machine, the Triumph, pretty much as a cheap test. It's paid for itself probably 4x over by now...

I'm now seriously looking into getting a fiber laser. But it WILL have to be a used machine if I do...

[Junior hall]

Holly cow Ive been at the flea market set up for 3 weeks and no one is interested in nothing as i got drinking glass wood mirrors even blue jean denim and still nothing People stop and look and that's it Heck my drinking glasses i selling for 5 bucks a mirror is 10 bucks ( 12x12 ) inch wood same thing No one is interested in nothing as i got 5 books with over 2000 different designs pictures The books are the vector art collection. i DO EVERY THING on the spot and no one is interested in nothing What am i doing wrong

[Dan Hintz]

i DO EVERY THING on the spot and no one is interested in nothing What am i doing wrong

Ever tried to sell ice to an eskimo?

If you're not selling, it's one of three things:
1) You're not advertising well
2) You're not marketing to the correct clientelle
3) Both 1) and 2)

I could fill a booth with laser-engraved stuff from one end to the other... doesn't mean what you're making has any interest to people, no matter how cheap it is. And if you have to sell cheap, what's the point in selling?

[Scott Shepherd]

Ever tried to sell ice to an eskimo?

If you're not selling, it's one of three things:
1) You're not advertising well
2) You're not marketing to the correct clientelle
3) Both 1) and 2)

I could fill a booth with laser-engraved stuff from one end to the other... doesn't mean what you're making has any interest to people, no matter how cheap it is. And if you have to sell cheap, what's the point in selling?

Or

4) You're not making what people want.
5) Your products need refining.

[Kev Williams]

What are you doing wrong? Not a thing. It's the venue, and it's clientele.

[Bill George]

What are you doing wrong? Not a thing. It's the venue, and it's clientele.
Flea markets and craft shows. I did two craft shows a long time ago with metal art. Zero sales. I did get a couple orders after the show. Sold more on eBay to West coast and East coast buyers who wanted something special from the Midwest.

Website sales, word of month. Never carry the "I will engrave for you mugs, glasses or etc.? Everything is made to order. Something you can't buy at Walmart or Menards.

Slow but sure with the lasers, both of them are paid for and I did not mortgage the house.

[Scott Shepherd]

Me, personally, I would never engrave things while you wait, and it's really really rare for me to let anyone watch the lasers run. In my experience with that, it cheapens the value of what we do. They see it engrave something in 30 seconds and say "Wow, that was fast", with fast equating to "cheap". Of course I could explain that it was fast because we invested in equipment, and it was fast because I spent time setting the files up prior to them walking up to it, but in the end, it's just not worth having to explain it. It's easier just not to allow people to see them run. I've had more than one case of people seeing it run, thinking it was cool, and buying their own machine and trying to compete with us. Doesn't work out well for them, but I don't think I'll make it any easier for them by showing them my tools, equipment, and knowledge for free.

[Junior hall]

(http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?12951-Scott-Shepherd)Scott Shepherd I thought about that also but i wanted to make some money since got tired of sitting this machine in a storage barn I wanted to make some money but heck couldnt even make one red cent as it is frustrating

Thanks

(http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?12951-Scott-Shepherd)

[Bert Kemp]

Junior its been said a thousand time here that your not going to make money over night with a laser and if the lasers the only tool in your box its going to be ten times as hard. I've experienced the same frustrations as you. I once sat at a large pull of area off the interstate where both north and south bound traffic had to pass to get to the rest area coming and going. This particular rest area is also a scenic view area and literally hundreds of cars and trucks stop here an hour. I sat there with my stuff set up for 4 hours and not one car or truck pulled in. I just couldn't believe that happened, still when I think about it can't believe it.:confused: I don't know what kind of Items you make but one thing you want to make sure its the very best work you can do. Also you might try making things unique to the area, if your near the coast make some light houses for that particular area, get some seashells and engrave a light house on them, with NC , If your close to Camp Lejeune make stuff that might appeal to Marines. If your near Deals Gap make motorcycle related Items. Use your imagination and try area specific Items and see if that works. Its a trial and error thing.


(http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?12951-Scott-Shepherd)Scott Shepherd I thought about that also but i wanted to make some money since got tired of sitting this machine in a storage barn I wanted to make some money but heck couldnt even make one red cent as it is frustrating

Thanks

(http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?12951-Scott-Shepherd)

[Tim Bateson]

I rarely make anything (with my laser). Some here do well with it, but I had no luck in that market. Now, on the laser side of my business, I'm mostly a service company staying very, busy lasering customer owned items. Once every few weeks, I look around the shop and see no work... When it does happen, it's just a matter of hours to be back-logged again. I do have a website, but don't do ANY type of paid advertising. Been there, Done that, Wasted my money. Word of mouth is VERY powerful.

Two key words for anyone new at this: "Patience" & "Diversify"

[Mike Null]

It's important to understand that laser or any other engraving is not an impulse business. To think that you can park yourself someplace and people will come running to you is flawed from the start.
At best you will be a curiosity.

Tim said it right--engraving is a service business. The quicker you can line up some commercial clients the quicker you will begin to have success.

I know there are a few here who swear by "word of mouth" as a means of spreading the word. In my nearly 19 years I can say I've had not more than one or two customers as a result of that and they were retail customers which is not my target.

Three important things:
1. stop thinking product and think service
2. find a means of marketing your service
3. improve the quality of your service

[Ron Gosnell]

Holly cow Ive been at the flea market set up for 3 weeks and no one is interested in nothing as i got drinking glass wood mirrors even blue jean denim and still nothing People stop and look and that's it Heck my drinking glasses i selling for 5 bucks a mirror is 10 bucks ( 12x12 ) inch wood same thing No one is interested in nothing as i got 5 books with over 2000 different designs pictures The books are the vector art collection. i DO EVERY THING on the spot and no one is interested in nothing What am i doing wrong

Don't give up Junior

Make up a plaque or 2, some name tags and other items, then hit the pavement. Go to the local Chamber of Commerce and let them know what you do. Hit all the clubs (not those kind). Fishing, hunting, bowling, scouts.
Gardening, RC flyers. You never know what may open a door. I talk big sitting here without any equipment yet but I've thinking hard about it. I'm going down a different road as I'm not wanting a business just a hobby.
My point is don't give up. Find that niche and have fun.

Gozzie

[Scott Shepherd]

He's missing the obvious link. Pet related products. He's a dog trainer. Sell dog tags to people that sell dogs and cats. Work out arrangements with vets. Create displays with examples and options that look really professional and walk into vets or pet stores and ask them to partner with you. I know a number of people who have made really good money selling pet tags alone, not to mention all the other stuff that goes with it.

Once those relationships are established, get the laserbuzz pet series and build a display for those, take them to your already established clients and ask them if they are interested in that.

You know about dogs, sell dog related stuff. It's what you know. There's no need to go learn new markets from scratch, you already know the dog market. Use that to your advantage.

[Matt McCoy]

He's missing the obvious link. Pet related products. He's a dog trainer. Sell dog tags to people that sell dogs and cats. Work out arrangements with vets. Create displays with examples and options that look really professional and walk into vets or pet stores and ask them to partner with you. I know a number of people who have made really good money selling pet tags alone, not to mention all the other stuff that goes with it.

Once those relationships are established, get the laserbuzz pet series and build a display for those, take them to your already established clients and ask them if they are interested in that.

You know about dogs, sell dog related stuff. It's what you know. There's no need to go learn new markets from scratch, you already know the dog market. Use that to your advantage.

Yes! Excellent advice.

[Tim Bateson]

Don't forget Pet Urns. That alone is very big.


He's missing the obvious link. Pet related products. He's a dog trainer. Sell dog tags to people that sell dogs and cats. Work out arrangements with vets. Create displays with examples and options that look really professional and walk into vets or pet stores and ask them to partner with you. I know a number of people who have made really good money selling pet tags alone, not to mention all the other stuff that goes with it.

Once those relationships are established, get the laserbuzz pet series and build a display for those, take them to your already established clients and ask them if they are interested in that.

You know about dogs, sell dog related stuff. It's what you know. There's no need to go learn new markets from scratch, you already know the dog market. Use that to your advantage.

[Mike Null]

Excellent suggestion. This month's A&E magazine has a series on engraving memorials. http://a-e-mag.com/

[Junior hall]

To all ive done that to every vets office there is in 3 different countys Forsyth Davidson county Guilford county in North Carolina I have even went to petco and petsmart and also several of the mom and pops pet stores I bought over 400 dollars worth of pet tags and license plates from Chewbaka and got no one interested in nothing even bought 100 dollars worth of drinking glasses from a wholesale restaurant wholesaler. This is why i asked about who one got started as i lobe training dogs just no one has any money these days to afford 800 bucks for basic obedience training I will try to do this again with petstores again may be things have changed since 3 months ago Thanks once again to all

[Scott Shepherd]

Then something is wrong. Your prices are too high or your quality is not what people are looking for. If you're in the dog business and you can't sell one pet tag, you've got something else going on. Show some photos of what you did and let us look at them, along with the pricing you offered them and we'll try to help.

What did your display look like? Did you have one? What did you do, walk in with a couple of engraved tags and show them? Explain what you have, show photos of what you did, and tell us how you approached it and we'll see if we can't help you figure it out.

You're not going to sell them at Petco, when they have a machine in their store that makes them. Think stores that sell puppies and kittens, breeders, vets, etc, locally owned pet stores.

[Junior hall]

I went in and spoke with the office manager and told him / her what i do engraving mirrors wood drinking glasses and dog tags and showed them several they liked all that i had ( I don not have none to show now as i let them have it all ) as i did 49 each of glasses mirrors and wood with different type of breeds of dogs. I left my name and number and called back 1 week to 9 days later and spoke with the office manager and he / she said that they still got my name and number and if any one is interested they will give my name and phone number to them The dog tags i was selling them for 5 bucks 12x12 mirror and wood was 10 bucks drinking glasses were 5 bucks They all liked them that i had and left to show customers but haven't gotten a nar word or call. The dog breeds they even said looked as good as if the dog was sitting there But like said no one has called me for a nar thing Just dont understand what i am doing wrong as with a lot of these people they dont have money for electric but will take care of there pets as they are family to them but any extra money they dont have Barely got enough for food grocery's. I go in with nice pair of pants and a nice button down shirt nice shoes every thing is dressy. So i am not understanding if i am doing some thing wrong or its the economy the way it is High Point NC was the furniture capital of the world and most of the furniture company's have closed and if still open they have skeleton crews just enough people for the little bit of work they do get in.. I am mainly looking as this as a hobby but also make a little extra money on the side

[Scott Shepherd]

Without seeing photos, it's impossible for us to critique it. Obviously there is some reason no one's calling. Like I said, you need a DISPLAY made to put on the counters that you give to them. How many pet owners do you think saw the tags sitting on the office managers desk? (hint: zero). How many would have seen it if it was in a counter top 8 1/2" x 11" display? Every one of them.

To me, it sounds like your problem is visibility in that market. Your products are visible because they are sitting on someone's desk. How many people do you think the office manager is showing on a daily basis? There is ZERO incentive for her to sell FOR you. Make the display, try it again. Let the display be your salesperson, not the office manager. When all the customers are asking about ordering one, while checking in or out, it'll get their attention.

[Junior hall]

Thanks Scott Shephard i will make a display case next and see how that works Any thing right now will help me just got to get my name out there like did with training dogs but with training dogs back then it was easy Once again thanks

[Scott Shepherd]

Not a display case, a counter top display. Two different things.

Do you have a website? Business cards?

[Frank barry]

Hi I am with Scott on this you know the dog business start there then move left and right of it and you will grow
remember if people don't know what you can do they cant buy it and keep it simple as you cant be all things to all people
hang in there Frank

[Junior hall]

Thanks Frank Berry thanks for your words of encouragement

Scott Shepherd sorry i meant county display case not display case sorry correction counter top display.

[Bill George]

Thanks Frank Berry thanks for your words of encouragement

Scott Shepherd sorry i meant county display case not display case sorry correction counter top display.

Give the Petco guy a reason to promote your stuff. For example, Introductory offer, price them at $9.95 each and give him $5 for each one he sells. Make sure you have a sticker with your name and phone number attached to the bottom. Your losing money but at least you will see what sells and what does not.

Remember the guys and gals on here are pro's they have done this for years. You can't expect to buy a machine and start raking in the money the next week.

[Junior hall]

Oh it doesn't work like that dern Bill George i thought it did NO just kidding. I hAVEspent about 1500 bucks on oak and aldern wood and engraved with all sorts if items and also spent about 923 bucks on drinking glasses and got all kinds of mirrors for free from a mirror company there scraps as they want to call it any thing less than 24 inches is scrap to them. Ive had this engraver since April 24th 2014 and have done all kinds of things but nothing to make money from it..

I am going to just focus my self on the animal business aspect for right now and see how that goes thanks all for the words of encuragement

[Don Corbeil]

Remember the guys and gals on here are pro's they have done this for years. You can't expect to buy a machine and start raking in the money the next week.

So true. I've noticed through my own past experience that there is this 'wow' factor when you first set up your machine and start making things. You're enthralled by the stuff your doing, and you think that everyone will also be so enthralled that they will just pull out their wallets and throw money at it. It just doesn't work that way. There's a big leap between a curious person and a paying customer. Even though most people find laser engraved items fascinating, the actual pool of people who will actually pay money for some cool engraved object is very, very small. There has to be a need for it beyond just the novelty, and as many have mentioned here before, offering services over products may be a preferable path to better revenue. And not to dampen the enthusiasm, but a laser engraver by itself may not be enough to build a thriving business. It can bring in some business, but it seems that the members on here with successful business models offer other services/tools that compliment the laser work.

[Chris J Anderson]

I agree Don,
I do mostly industrial labelling now for electrical contractors etc.
I also have a nice display area with assorted glasses, nicely engraved wooden coasters, plaques, acrylic awards etc etc.
Nearly every person that visits, including our industrial clients looks over all of the items in our display, and they are amazed at the variety of lasered items...
BUT--- Very few of them ever go on to buy any of the 'fancy' items.

Junior...
I think you could look at industrial labelling as well, i.e. electrical, plumbing, air conditioning contractors etc. The best target is the companies who make electrical switchboards.
It won't cost much to buy a couple of ¼ sheets of basic 1/16" Rowmark material in basic colours, don't go for the cheap junk, and don't go overboard with colours, just do a white / black and red / white sample, with nice adhesive backing, some with screw holes etc. (PM me and I'll email you some artwork you can use for samples).

But Junior you MUST provide quality / classy finished items, at a fair price to both you and your client, and provide GREAT SERVICE, maybe provide free delivery for local clients etc for orders over say $40.
And do your very best to provide a quick turnaround service.


Best of luck mate.

[Bill George]

I hAVEspent about 1500 bucks on oak and aldern wood and engraved with all sorts if items and also spent about 923 bucks on drinking glasses and got all kinds of mirrors for free from a mirror company there scraps as they want to call it any thing less than 24 inches is scrap to them. Ive had this engraver since April 24th 2014 and have done all kinds of things but nothing to make money from it..

I am going to just focus my self on the animal business aspect for right now and see how that goes thanks all for the words of encouragement

Junior I don't see anything in your spending for a simple website. That website address on your business cards will let you showcase what you do and provide a way for them to contact you via email or phone. Does not cost a lot for hosting, maybe a $100 a year and someone to do the website for you. It can be done using WordPress and maybe one of your friends can do it. You don't need a fancy Shopping Cart setup, just a website to display what you do, and a way for interested customers to Contact you. It takes 6 months or so before the Search engines pick up your site and the longer its up the better.

[Bert Kemp]

Yes a website and business cards are a must, Vista print does free business cards, you pay sxh, several place to get free websites, and cheap hosting. I pay $60 a year for a website and another $15 for a host to point to my site. But you could just get a free website and you business card to tell people were to look.


Junior I don't see anything in your spending for a simple website. That website address on your business cards will let you showcase what you do and provide a way for them to contact you via email or phone. Does not cost a lot for hosting, maybe a $100 a year and someone to do the website for you. It can be done using WordPress and maybe one of your friends can do it. You don't need a fancy Shopping Cart setup, just a website to display what you do, and a way for interested customers to Contact you. It takes 6 months or so before the Search engines pick up your site and the longer its up the better.

[Junior hall]

sitting here scratching my head even balder sssshhhhhhhhhh. A lot of awesome advise I just like to make couple bucks here and there nothing major. Chris Anderson yes sir please email me and so i can see as im more of a see than read comprehend person

yes i agree the things that i have engraved is nice i was in shock and awwww so is a lot of my neighbors i gave away a lot of things to them and done alot of things for them and they told other friends but still didn't get me no where. Some way i will get my name out there just not as fast as i did with training dogs.

Seen a lot of youtube things being engraved and some of you alls work that you have showed on the forum and just wow awesome awesome things you all have done and shared. Thanks for sharing it makes me want to do engraving more.
Once again thanks for the encouragement

[Tim Bateson]

...yes i agree the things that i have engraved is nice i was in shock and awwww so is a lot of my neighbors i gave away a lot of things to them and done alot of things for them and they told other friends but still didn't get me no where....

Nothing I ever did for free has made me a dime. Not then & not in future business. Forget about the give-aways. I don't do charities either. Do just one for free and they want even more for free. Poor business model, with ZERO rate of return. People, especially business will respect you a whole lot more if you charge an honest price. Don't under charge and don't over charge either - you'll have to study your market to know the sweet spot. You charge less they don't respect you. Charge too much, they just walk away.

[Mike Lysov]

I would drop the idea to do the pet tags. Just have a look at ebay. I have just checked ebay Australia and there are local people who do them for $4 with shipping included and you can get one engraved from China/HongKong for $1 with shipping included. It is a huge completion and you won't get much from this product. I stopped doing them more than 3 years ago. I was selling them for $7-9 on ebay and sold more than 3000. It was fine until there were some international guy either from Canada and USA who started selling them for $2.99. And it was not a huge deal because I still had had a lot of local buyers who needed them fast. What killed it for me was that a lot of people stopped reading item descriptions. They started using mobile phones to shop on ebay and most of apps just hide the description. As a result I had to chaise more than 50% of buyers asking for engraving details(they just did not send them to be at all) or telling them that I did not have requested shapes/colours in stock which was clearly stated in the item description.

[Scott Shepherd]

A lot of awesome advise I just like to make couple bucks here and there nothing major.

I think that's the root of the problem. You don't NEED to make it work. Many of us had no choice but to make it work. That meant we found the paths to make us money. Your pricing frightens me. $10 for a 12 x 12 engrave tile or wood? What are you valuing your time at? $5 per hour?

My opinion is you're going about this all wrong with the wrong attitude. You need to figure out what you want to do, goals, etc, and work towards them and stop bouncing all around "hoping" that something works. Hope is not a method.

[Frank barry]

yea Scott there is a lot in what you say as I have followed many of Junior old post I think he got a little excited at all the things a laser can do and forgot to look at where he can make some money Its not to late to step back and make a new start I do think the dog tags would be a start as its a market he known and yes I know there is not big money in them but its a start where one would learn about marketing and profit margins (i attended a dog show a few weeks ago and there was a stall doing just dog tags and they had 2 machines going flat out to get them done and they were well able to charge )but for them they went to where there customers were sure to be
cheers Frank

[Junior hall]

Scott Shepherd No i value my time more but when your starting out you can not charge high dollar when no one knows you. I was doing the same thing how i started training dogs I undercut people just to get the business and when all others were closed i would then raise my prices a bit for training dogs. But i understand what your saying need to value my work time more. I also understand what your saying stop bouncing around hoping some thing will work. I am only going to stick with what i know and thats animals dogs mainly and see if that will work for me but i like to be some what versatile being able to do more than just one topic. But i will mainly do animals as this is my passion and i know if its my passion then STICK WITH MY PASSION. I understand that you all had to make it work as i well kinda haVE to make it work to pay for the engraver machine i admit i would like to have it paid off in 1 year like some of you all done but realisticly it wont happen as come April 28 2015 will be a year of me having the 1620 boss laser engraver. I also admit i need to stop giving things away to neighbors as i looked at it another way give some thing to show what i can do and hopefully my name will be passed around like it did with training dogs it isnt looking like it will happen Some day i hope i can help the next newbie like you all have helped me and i value you alls opinion as you all have many many many many years experience in this and i want to thank each and every one of you all for your help and wisdom helping a newbie out once again thanks so very much Even at times it may hurt but its the truth and nothing better to get to the point not beat around the bunch so thank you all so very much make it hurt so that way i learn better and much faster thanks again

[Scott Shepherd]

I was doing the same thing how i started training dogs I undercut people just to get the business and when all others were closed i would then raise my prices a bit for training dogs.

If that's your intent in this business, then I've offered my last piece of advice to you. I have no desire to help someone undercut someone until they go out of business and then raise their prices to what they should have been all along.

That's a horrible way to do business.

[Junior hall]

No Scott shepherd i didn't mean with the laser engraving i did that with training dogs boss. I will never be as good to put some one out of business in engraving boss no i didn't mean that i done it with training dogs I dont ever thing i will ever be as good as some one in the laser engraving business i was good at what i do in the dog training business Not to float my boat but i was and still have the offer to work with Tia Valalobose in Louisiana with Pitt Bull and Parolees the tv show and also Andrew Hughes the guy that trains all of the Hollywood movie stars dogs along with dogs that you see in movies

But Scott Shepherd i didnt mean no harm boss. I am not as gifted in laser engraving as i am with training dogs boss man

[Dan Hintz]

I undercut people just to get the business and when all others were closed i would then raise my prices a bit for training dogs.

As a business model, this works... right up until someone next door has the exact same business model.

In other words, prepare for your business to fail in the same sputtering way your earlier competition did. And there will always be someone next door willing to try your business model.

[Junior hall]

isnt this the way most business operate look at Wal Mart Isn't this the normal operating objective so that way there is no competition. Seen it done several times not only with dog training but also sheetrock repairs, building and remodeling, concrete jobs, and even towing business not to mention wholesalers Undercut the competition to get your sales and the business of others look at chebawka they are the lowest of there prices and im sure they get a ton of business why because they are the lowest that's the name of the business the lower the more customers but yet got to have quality as well Can i go up against some of you all thats been in the engraving business for longer than i have ( not even a year ) heck no, no way i can go up against you. Why because one lack of experience and knowledge so guess what i lose to you and you win and i lose thats the name of business. Take a look around at auto mechanics under cutting there competition Look at food restaurants under cutting composition But can i under cut some one like you all that have been in the business a lot longer than i have heck no way in heck can i do it why because lack of experience and knowledge So like said you win i lose name of the business some you win some you lose I am not in this engraving business to compete with you all no way i just want to learn as i think the engraving things ive done and you all have done is awesome gorgeous.

If some one is scared of competition then they need to not have a business period because there is always some one out there competing for a customers business thats the name of life thats what pays the bills puts food on the table. You will always have competition no matter what your doing or where your at

Look at the Americans yes im an american people want top dollar for some thing and every thing is made in China why lower wages thats the name of life. Not to mention most of the crap made in China is low quality Ask your self where you shop at most people shop at Wal Mart why because Wal Mart has put competition out of business and also lower prices. Why. They pay there employees crap and sell crap made in China its the name of business Like i said if your afraid of competition then need to not even think about owning a business some one some where is going to compete for the same customers business as you are

[Mike Null]

Junior

I disagree with about everything you've said. I have a $25 minimum fee regardless of what the job is. I don't give a hoot what my competition is charging. My price is based on making money--and not wasting my time. My competition is not my enemy--in fact we try to help each other out more often than you'd think.

[Tim Bateson]

Junior is not far off if his business is purely retail. I'm in the service business, mostly with industrial clients. They pay top dollar for everything and like I said before, they won't take you serious if you charge too little. My time, my skill, and my equipment are valuable, so my rule is $100/hr, but some jobs easily run $300-$600/hr. Now I don't like to turn retail business away, so sometime, I balance that $300-$600 with well below $100, but never below my $20 minimum for retail. When doing retail, never forget to up sale. It will often get you a lot closer to that $100+/hr

It doesn't happen often but a couple of my best industrial clients started in that retail category.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I have a few simple statements.

1. Improve your communication skills. They aren't up to snuff.
2. Improve your knowledge. That does not mean spending $5000 on materials. You should be buying SMALL quantities of materials and practicing until you know how to engrave said material. Now you have experience so when someone contacts you for work, you actually know what you're talking about and can do the job effectively and efficiently.
3. Pricing is tricky. What is considered top dollar in one region of the US is not top dollar in another. Also remember, there is a mix between very small businesses on here and much larger. You will see distinct differences in ideas. Neither are right or wrong, they are just different. It's also important to look at local pricing just as it's important to look at global pricing. You have to figure out a happy medium.
4. Being priced low and driving out the competition works. Many businesses have done this successfully. More have failed doing it. Most go out of business early, within the first 18 months. This is because they never get close to being actually profitable. The ones that make it beyond the 18 month mark will often go out of business in 36 months because they try to raise their prices and lose their customer base, because their customer base was shopping based on price and you're no longer cheap. More often than not, the business killer concept only works because they actually have a reason why they can drop their prices.

[Gary Hair]

If you win a customer by price, you will lose them by price. If you win them with better (service/product/selection/etc) then price won't matter.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I think Ross has pretty much covered it in a direct way.

If I had a buck for every Ebay laser that was sold to a start up business I'd retire tomorrow. Try not to confuse a business with a partially supported hobby Junior, to be honest in this industry if you are selling something that should cost $40 for $10 people will not buy it because it's probably crap, if you are selling something for $40 that is worth $10 people won't buy it because it's expensive.

You either want to run a business or your want to play with a laser.

Oh the business killer model? that works till somebody like me moves local to you and takes away all your work.

[Robert Tepper]

Junior, banks need rubber stamps, nursing homes need badges and door signs, oil companies need to label every valve in a refinery, aircraft companies need stamps and signs, hospitals need rubber stamps and signs. Airports need signs, car dealers give away gifts when a customer makes a purchase. Don't give up. It does not happen over night. This July makes 38 years for me and I still wonder where the next job will come from. You have discovered that flea markets are not the right venue, opportunities are out there.

Don't give up!

Robert

[Clark Pace]

15 years ago I was a web designer. We had a laser. The guy who ran the laser went on vaction, and so I was chosen to be a backup laser person. After I left the job, I purchased my own laser. I thought they were so cool, and still do.

[Bert Kemp]

Junior You've been on here a year now asking for all kinds of help and just about everybody here has helped or given you free advice and just about everyone has told you the same thing and for the most part I don't think your following what people tell you cause you keep coming back asking the same things. You asking what your doing wrong and your still trying to do to much at once, baby steps learn one medium at a time learn it well then learn another. You still haven't posted any photos of your work so we don't know what it is your trying to sell. we don't know if its good or bad or anything. Take some picture and show us what your doing. Don't cry all I got is a cheap cell phone camera. I take most my pictures with my cheap cell phone cam and if you take a few minutes to compose the photo and give it some light they look just as good as a camera photo. Oh and Junior one other thing READ MY LIME GREEN!:rolleyes:

[Bill Reibelt]

Before leaving the Royal Australian Air Force (as a Police Dog Handler) in 1992, while checking out sections found a young fitter in the rear of the hanger using an engraver to make parts and things. The RAAF were in the process of out sourcing all repairs at the time. Looked interesting, I opened a Video and games shop in Forbes NSW a country town. Nothing to do all day but wait for customers to walk in. Looked at doing something to do. The local Jeweler a friend of the family said he was sick of paying jewelers rates for his staff to engrave plates and trophies so he told me if I wanted to do the work as my business he would never see a trophy in his shop again. I bought a pantagraph machine then had to get a motorized machine (second hand Hermies 19X12 inch then a full computer setup for it within 3 months. Sold the business in 1997. It is still going at this time. Restarted with my first laser engraver as a hobby ready for retirement and also to have something to do in my spare time. Now retired from work full time due to medical reasons. going to start cutting items for the markets.

[Junior hall]

Awesome Bill Reibelt awesome another k9 trainer / handler What kind of k9s you all normally have or trained. We here mostly train Belgium, malanoise and Dutch shepherds and some times Australian shepherds.

A nice way to start a business also Bill finding things in your own backyard / work Happy retirement from the armed forces congratulations

[Matt McCoy]

Junior, banks need rubber stamps, nursing homes need badges and door signs, oil companies need to label every valve in a refinery, aircraft companies need stamps and signs, hospitals need rubber stamps and signs. Airports need signs, car dealers give away gifts when a customer makes a purchase. Don't give up. It does not happen over night. This July makes 38 years for me and I still wonder where the next job will come from. You have discovered that flea markets are not the right venue, opportunities are out there.

Don't give up!

Robert

It was nice to read this. Well done and congratulations.