Auger bits next

[Howard Skillington]

Ok: my bit brace is on the way, so it's time to find auger bits.

I think I understand that the critical work is done at the tip of the bit and that the rest of the tool simply conveys the chips out of the hole. It's also clear that one should do as little as possible with the file to avoid spoiling the bit geometry.

I have ordered an auger bit file and located a full set of Russell Jennings bits that are priced cheap but significantly spotted with rust. Are these likely to be salvageable, or should I hold out for some rust-free augers?

You guys are great - thanks.

[Brian Holcombe]

Just an FYI, it's quite difficult to tell the shape a bit is in from photos on ebay. For instance; I bought a set that looked like a solid deal, most of the bits are OK, all required a lot of filing and some may end up being junked. The set was slightly less expensive than the average set on ebay and obviously significantly cheaper than brand new bits....of which I could only find from TFWW.

I bought some auger files and have probably put 2-3 hours into filing. Not terrible to get a decent set of users, but if I want a full set, complete without small issues I'm likely going to be either buying another full set and trading in the good ones or buying individual bits.

My most likely coarse of action is that I will buy the complete, mint, set that I initially talked myself out of buying, then selling this set at a loss because I dont think it is worth what I paid for it.....which ends being being more expensive than if I had bought the expensive set to begin with.

[ken hatch]

Brian's experience is pretty much the same as mine with eBay tools. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that I'm ahead of the game buying new good quality tools vs. used from whatever source. As with all things wood, YMMV, but when I factor in time and sometimes lack of expertise, new ends up being cheaper.

Unless I can personally inspect and use a used tool, I buy new if new is available from a good maker.

ken

Edit to add: Also somewhat depends on what you like to do, collect tool or make furniture.

[Howard Skillington]

I appreciate that last distinction, Ken. I can understand the appeal of once-fine old tools - both aesthetic and nostalgic - but for me, personally, they are another means to the end of crafting furniture that I can be proud of.

[Reinis Kanders]

I bought two sets of Irwin bits in wood boxes. Boxes were in sorry shape and each set was missing one bit, but otherwise they drilled without sharpening. One set came with 5 dirty looking braces I mentioned early, the other was $60. Ebay is a lottery, but individual new bits are pricey.

[lowell holmes]

I have a set of Irwin bits in a box that was my Dad's. They went through a flood, but the bits cleaned up and are shiny. They are sharp and required very little filing. The box was glued back together and works quite well. They are 1960 vintage.
If you can find a set of Irwin bits, I wouldn't hesitate. If you chose to buy a small set to get started, by the time you cleaned and sharpened them, you will know what your up against and be better prepared to do the task. For instance, I have 6 or 8 bits in a plastic bag that are the same quality as the big set.

Buying an old set of 16 or more bits could be a bit overwhelming.

[Howard Skillington]

It seems clear that new Irwins have nothing like the quality of vintage ones. And I've never felt I need large forstners in 1/16" increments.

I note that Tradiutional Woodworker sells a set of auger bits from Brazil, of all places. Has anyone tried them?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'd hazard a guess those Brazilian auger bits come from the same place the modern manufacture Brazilian Irwin auger bits I tried one of were from; but I have no way of knowing. I could be totally off base. But if they are, they'd be junk.

I've heard great things about the WoodOwl auger bits from Japan, if your brace can deal with a hex-shank okay.

I have to say, though, I bought into the hype when I got a brace, and I've got two full sets of auger bits, and I've probably used all or most of them at least once, but I do a lot of odd stuff. I'd take a quick thought about what you're actually going to be doing - in your woodworking, are you really going to be drilling that many large holes? My most used auger bits are actually screw drivers, followed some gimlet bits, a couple of vintage centre bits (I wish I had more) and then the smaller sized augers. In all reality, if I wasn't such a dork about using the brace, I could probably get by without any of the larger bits in actual woodworking. A 1/4", 1/2" and 3/8" is great for draw boring, the smaller ones maybe for hiding screw heads or something, but a lot of time, I use nice LV brad points in my smaller braces. (Yankee, Lion, and Samson chucks do a great job of holding round bits) I'm not a house-wright, I don't usually need to drill 1" holes in studs.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of a brace as a screw driver, though. When my cheap powered drills where dying, a 12" brace was great for setting screws in hardie-board, and a little six inch is great for driving lots of screws quickly. Great with a socket on the end, too.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Also - you'll have much luck better on eBay if you look for auger bit auctions that don't mention Jennings or Irwin. Takes a little more digging to find a good one, but if someone labels their auctions poorly, they're less likely to be noticed, and more likely to go for a good price. Navigate down through the categories and just search for a little while that way.

[Howard Skillington]

Good tip, thanks. Within the limits of my present knowledge that's sorta what I've been trying to do.

[Jim Koepke]

Before getting deep into woodworking my father gave me a few auger bits.

My first full set of auger bits was won on ebay for $20 +shipping and came with a corner brace. Similar to this only it was a Stanley:

311807

Since then a complete set of Irwin bits have been accumulated. If I see a good bit at a good price while out and about, it will usually get a ride home.

If the bits Howard started this thread were cheap enough, they would likely be brought home by me. It would really depend on the extent of the rust spotting. If the spurs are in good shape and the rust isn't eating away parts of the bit, they might be worth a shot. It is always good to have extra bits around. In my case if some boring is to be done in some unknown wood, a bit that is less than user grade gets the job. It is always a sad day when one finds a screw or a nail with a good bit.

Here is an old post of mine with some more information:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?131238-A-Bit-About-Augers

There is a lot that could be added to that thread. I have learned a lot more in 5 years.

There are plenty of bits in second hand stores that have been filed beyond usefulness. Those are to be avoided unless you want them for some other reason such as turning the shank into a custom screwdriver.

jtk

[Adam Stevens2]

I'm also looking for some bits. I have a Miller Falls Lion brace that's just been sitting around. A couple of minutes fooling with hex bits told me I need to find proper auger bits. Right now I'm thinking of just getting 1/4" and 1/2" bits if I can find them, I'm not sure I need a great honking set of them. Anyone have any recommendations for new manufactured bits? I feel like I'm wasting my time on ebay - they either appear to be coated in rust or going for $100 plus for a box of 120 bits that will just get in the way.

[Jonathan Martell]

Auger bits are a bit hit or miss, but there haven't been too many I couldn't bring back to life with a auger file. Usually the spurs will be filed, and the edges damaged. Stay on the inside of the spur to keep the outside diameter the same. They say to only cut on the backside of the cutter, but there were a few that were so chewed up, I had to file the bottom a bit as well. Right or wrong it worked for me.
Rust isn't as big of a deal as chewed up edges. A min on a wire wheel will usually clean them right up.

[Jonathan Martell]

Before getting deep into woodworking my father gave me a few auger bits.

My first full set of auger bits was won on ebay for $20 +shipping and came with a corner brace. Similar to this only it was a Stanley:

311807

Since then a complete set of Irwin bits have been accumulated. If I see a good bit at a good price while out and about, it will usually get a ride home.

If the bits Howard started this thread were cheap enough, they would likely be brought home by me. It would really depend on the extent of the rust spotting. If the spurs are in good shape and the rust isn't eating away parts of the bit, they might be worth a shot. It is always good to have extra bits around. In my case if some boring is to be done in some unknown wood, a bit that is less than user grade gets the job. It is always a sad day when one finds a screw or a nail with a good bit.

Here is an old post of mine with some more information:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?131238-A-Bit-About-Augers

There is a lot that could be added to that thread. I have learned a lot more in 5 years.

There are plenty of bits in second hand stores that have been filed beyond usefulness. Those are to be avoided unless you want them for some other reason such as turning the shank into a custom screwdriver.

jtk

How handy are those corner braces? I could see them being good for tight spaces. I'm just wondering if it's something I should add to my collection. :-)

[Mike Holbrook]

Check out my review of the Wood Owl drill bits made in Japan:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?228829-Review-Wood-Owl-Drill-bits&highlight=

I also posted pictures and the system I use for drilling and dealing with all the various driving/removing devices in a thread just below this concerning twist drill bits:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114913-Anyone-using-twist-drills-in-their-Brace

[Derek Cohen]

My advice is to buy from someone reputable, such as George Langford (George's Basement): http://www.georgesbasement.com/galootsales/sale07172002/htmlinks.htm

Several years ago I purchased a full set of Russell Jennings that he selected and sharpened for me. I also got lucky a couple of times on eBay (USA) and picked up a very good used set in their original tiered, hinged box. These were dull and needed honing. On the eBay (Oz) I found an unused set of vintage Irwins. This was some time ago, and I doubt that these deals are available now. Back then they were going unnoticed.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/RJBox1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/YankeesandRJaugers1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/Irwinaugers1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/Centerbits1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/Gimlets.jpg

I have a bunch of different braces, but this Miller's is one of my favourites ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Drills/IDeclareThisBenchFinished_html_795dc9c9.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

They say to only cut on the backside of the cutter, but there were a few that were so chewed up, I had to file the bottom a bit as well. Right or wrong it worked for me.

The reason not to file on the underside of the cutter is to maintain a relief clearance. If it is messed up by a previous owner, the only way to unmess it is to file renew the relief angle.


How handy are those corner braces? I could see them being good for tight spaces. I'm just wondering if it's something I should add to my collection. :-)

It is nice to have when working in a corner or inside a cabinet without room for a regular brace.

Mine doesn't get a lot of use, but it does get some.

jtk

[Robert Engel]

I picked up a set of Irwins in Ebay for $11 in a metal display type box only missing one bit.
Sharpened them up and they work great.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Don't worry too much about rust. Clean them with your favorite rust remover -- Evaporust, citric acid solution, etc. Only the cutting edges, the spurs, and the screw matter -- the rest of the bit can be pitted like all get out, and it won't make any difference. The cutting edges and spurs are fairly easy to sharpen. And you may not mind if the spurs are worn down quite a bit. In fact, there were some variations on the standard Irwin and Jennings patterns that had either just one spur or no spurs at all. But if the bit is bent, or if the screw tip is messed up, don't waste your rust remover on it.

By the way, I'm a big fan of Millers Falls Lion braces. Great tools, and they don't command the ridiculous prices of Bell System braces. The Parsons line of Millers Falls is supposed to be even better, but I've never had one.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks to whoever suggested Wood Owl bits. I did not know about these. I just found a good deal on them here http://www.woodshopbits.com/ and they ship outside the US! A decent set of the smooth cutting bits from 3/8" to 1" in 1/16" increments will run you about $175 if you choose the shorter 7 1/2". They have up to 24" in the standard ship augers which is great to know, as they are good for drilling through deadwood in a keel. It seems the smooth cutting ones only come in 7.5 and 18" lengths.