Best finish for a Gramercy saw vise

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I am getting the sharpening station all set up and just got a hefty bonus, so I may splurge for a Gramercy saw vise, especially now that I am sharpening saws for the workshop where I have been teaching.

I remember someone posting about baked oil finish on a Gramercy vise but cannot find the post. Here are my choices for finish:

Baked flax oil. http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/2011/09/omega-3-fatty-acid-for-your-cast-iron.html

Cold blue with Minwax antique oil as also in above link.

Hybrid- Cold blue followed by baked flax oil. Really I want a black look and figure that would give me the black finish, and might have a deep look to it with the brown linseed oil on top. Will the flax oil finish stick to cold blue? I don't see why not.



Really those are my choices, as this has to stay fairly simple and I cannot ship dangerous goods very easily so things like Mark Lee Rapid Brown or a hot bluing are out. I am open to other suggestions but not paint. Really the goal here is rust prevention, but I kind of want to experiment with a different finish, and this tool lends itself well to such a finish.

I also saw a heat treatment followed by an oil bath that I really liked, but it seems more for color and less for durability. Also I would worry about messing with the temper of the steel, although I do have a kiln to do it in.

[Mike Holbrook]

Mine is probably a couple years old now. I rubbed a little Renaissance Wax on mine when I got it and it shows no rust or discoloration that I can see.

[Jim Matthews]

Salt water air can be harsh on bare metal.
What does our man in Brooklyn say?

I have a damp (but not Caribbean) shop.
I wipe on a the same light oil with a paint brush
that all cast iron tools get, before storage.

Seems to be working. (Three years, no rust.)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Well, me not being one to waste time, I just ordered the saw vise, and also a bottle of gun blue (cold) and some flax oil. I have been wanting to try this finish, as I intend to do this if I ever get my dream Benchcrafted Ruobo parts. This will be a great guinea pig. I am still open to suggestions before it all arrives. I somehow feel that having a stove in the sharpening station (former second kitchen) must be for a reason! I am going to blue it first, then oil and bake it a few times. Best of both worlds- a nice dark finish and a baked on oil protection.

[Darren Brown]

I used baked flax oil using the benchcrafted instructions to finish the cheepo rockler vice hardware on my bench. Very simple and looks like a million bucks. You can get a pretty dark brown with multiple coats so I would skip the gun blue altogether. That stuff is noxious as well as toxic. Just don't use your girlfriends expensive organic flax seed oil from Whole Foods. DAMHIK.

[Jim Matthews]

I forgot about the novel layout of your shop.

Any final disposition on the bunker?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Jim, the only decision has been a mahogany wine cellar on the back wall. We are going through negotiations to buy the house next to us for a workshop and that lets me clear out the "dungeon" which is currently used for storage. I did find a cool way to do glass block floors with LED lights underneath for a cool effect, but there is this thing called money... I have so little of it. :-) Also the galvanized gutters are shot and so break out another $3k for that. Historic district rules require that you put half-round metal gutters but I am going with galvalume to replace the galvanized the previous owner put.

Darren, I am hoping the finish I get with bluing first will be like the candy colors we used to spray on street rods where you lay a base coat and then spray another candy color over it. I am hoping to get a black that reflects brown hues with some depth to the finish.

Just to reiterate, this is part protective coating, and part playing around with metal finishes to satisfy a curiosity. In the end it's just a saw vise. Well- a really cool saw vise- so I do kind of want to give it a finish worthy of the maker as well. I will post a play-by-play when everything arrives. The cold blue may take a while to get here. They sent it first class instead of priority. Sometimes that comes by air pretty quick, and sometimes by boat in 4 weeks.

[Noah Wagener]

can i cook a steel saw back like that?

[ian maybury]

I'd without being sure of how good a choice it might be take a look at phosphating Malcolm - zinc or managanese depending on your colour preference. There's quite a bit on Google, and DIY kits on offer… The coating is highly corrosion resistant, and possibly in the sort of colour territory you have in mind. Check that it's not going to mess up any fits or surface finishes that may be critical......

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Noah, I would not use a baked oiled finish for a saw because it would probably make it sticky in the cut. Gun bluing would work, but only hot bluing- cold bluing only adds color and no real corrosion resistance.

Ian, that process is too toxic and I believe would require shipping dangerous goods by IATA regs which means either pay a $100 handling fee by air, or ship by boat which still would possibly require a DG handling fee. Some phosphates are 4.3 Dangerous When Wet. Trucking not an option for me. If I were to do something caustic it would be hot bluing. I don't mind 4 ounces of cold blue and baking some flax seed, but not really interested in hot bluing.

[ian maybury]

Just took a look now Malcolm, it does seem to get a bit complicated (and quite expensive) for larger parts done as a one off. Promising perhaps too though, suspect there's applications in treating tools. Wonder if there's a service?

My experience of phosphating was in a context where i could bum the phosphoric acid from a lab. These two sites came up on Google just now - I've no interest in guns, and know nothing about them: http://www.projectguns.com/parkerizing2.html https://www.shootersolutions.com/parkerizing.html

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I checked on parkerizing (paying to have it done) but a gun barrel was around $100 and I don't want to know how much they would charge for this thing. The image in that link of the acetone next to a burner is quite amusing!

[ian maybury]

That seems expensive Malcolm, but i guess insurance and all sorts kick in. My perception is probably skewed by my own experience years ago - as before i had good luck just boiling small parts for motorcycles in phosphoric acid bummed from a lab where i worked.

[Steve Voigt]

Chiming in late here. A couple thoughts.
The seasoning process Jameel describes on the Benchcrafted blog is what you do for cast iron pans (as he acknowledges).
The Benchcrafted vise wheels are cast iron; the saw vise is steel. Seasoning with oil works better on cast iron than on steel, because the former is more porous. I have a De Buyers spun steel pan, and seasoning it with this method is not as durable or dark as on my cast iron pans. It still works, though.
I don't see a problem with treating a saw back this way, as Noah suggests. It will not stick in the cut, since one doesn't cut with the back.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My apologies to Noah- I thought he said "can I cook a steel saw BLACK..." I didn't realize he said "back". No issue with the back! I thought he was trying to make the blade of the saw black.

Steve, that was my concern as well, but I did some research and found where others had baked on a finish on steel with no issues. I figure it's not getting much abuse. I really just want to protect it from the damp air, and also it's going to reside on my sharpening bench, so it may get the occasional splash. I considered sandblasting it to get more tooth, but I really think the vise looks good with a smooth finish. It should arrive later today or maybe early tomorrow, as will the cold blue and flax oil I ordered, so I will update with a play-by-play.

[Steve Voigt]

I figured you just misread Noah's post.
Just to be clear, I definitely think it will work; it just won't be as dark as on cast iron. But for rust prevention it is good; that De Buyers pan hasn't rusted once in ten years.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

The vise, oil, and cold blue all arrived today! Woohoooo! First off- I read that this was made from 1/4" thick steel, but it didn't really register. There is really no describing how heavily built this thing is. I have a 4-ton floor jack that literally is less heavily built. Wow.

I will start a new thread when I do this so the process is not buried within this one. The vise came greased, which I did not consider, so a little work to be done disassembling and de-greasing before I get going.

[Chuck Nickerson]

I will start a new thread when I do this so the process is not buried within this one. The vise came greased, which I did not consider, so a little work to be done disassembling and de-greasing before I get going.

Please do. My Gramercy vise is untreated and I'd like to intelligently change that.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

She's in the oven now on baking number four. One more and she's done and I'll do a separate thread but run out and get some flax seed oil and a 2 oz. bottle of Brownell's 44/40 instant gun blue, because already this thing looks awesome and I even took some 800 grit to it to take out a few runs and the finish stayed put.